35 votes

UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak announces a 4th July general election

23 comments

  1. [2]
    Raspcoffee
    Link
    This is... a choice, I suppose. Well.... I imagine so. Just... why? If the economy was going up for a bit longer and refugee got deported to Rwanda then, despite my disagreements with them, I...

    This is... a choice, I suppose.

    “I just don’t understand it,” one Conservative MP said. “The economy is improving. Why not give that more time to bed in?”

    One senior minister was annoyed that Sunak gave his speech in the driving rain.

    “If the whole point was to remind the public that he was Mr Furlough, why not do the speech inside from the same briefing room?”

    They added: “Labour MPs are happy. We’re not. That tells a story.”

    Well.... I imagine so. Just... why? If the economy was going up for a bit longer and refugee got deported to Rwanda then, despite my disagreements with them, I could see it being a choice?

    If anything if the economy keeps improving while Labour lost, they will be the ones to benefit from it politically?

    If I didn't knew any better I would've thought that Sunak wants to take the Tories down with him. And with the momentum of Labour, Lib Dem and Reform UK that's not even inconceivable? For one of the oldest political forces this is certainly... a choice.

    16 votes
    1. Venko
      Link Parent
      Inflation has dropped but it's still over the bank target rate which means the Bank of England is unlikely to cut rates. So there's no big mortgage rate drops to look forward to for the...

      Inflation has dropped but it's still over the bank target rate which means the Bank of England is unlikely to cut rates. So there's no big mortgage rate drops to look forward to for the Conservatives.

      As for the Rwanda deportations: there has been a lot of press in the UK and Ireland that makes it appear that the Rwanda scheme will have an impact. But every successive summer the number of boat crossings increase so the longer the Conservatives wait, the more the Rwanda scheme will likely be shown to be ineffective.

      15 votes
  2. [13]
    infpossibilityspace
    Link
    After almost 15 years of conservative rule, they've had complete control to fix the UK's problems, but they've only succeeded in making the country stagnate. Real wage growth has been non-existent...

    After almost 15 years of conservative rule, they've had complete control to fix the UK's problems, but they've only succeeded in making the country stagnate.

    Real wage growth has been non-existent for the average person, NHS is dying, local councils are going bankrupt, houses have never been more unaffordable, and our biggest trading partner is gone.

    I honestly don't know how the British people have put up with it for so long, but for me, if the tories stay in power, I'm going to look for jobs abroad.

    14 votes
    1. KapteinB
      Link Parent
      Labour parties have collapsed all over Europe. Here in Norway, polls indicate a humiliating defeat for Labour come September. Voters have apparently forgotten what complete chaos the previous...

      I honestly don't know how the British people have put up with it for so long

      Labour parties have collapsed all over Europe. Here in Norway, polls indicate a humiliating defeat for Labour come September. Voters have apparently forgotten what complete chaos the previous Conservative-lead government was.

      8 votes
    2. [11]
      BuckyMcMonks
      Link Parent
      Is the NHS dying or being slowly starved to death? Honest question - I'm not sure if that is a strategy conservatives use there, but I damn sure know it's being used elsewhere.

      Is the NHS dying or being slowly starved to death? Honest question - I'm not sure if that is a strategy conservatives use there, but I damn sure know it's being used elsewhere.

      8 votes
      1. [2]
        Johz
        Link Parent
        I think it's honestly really difficult to say. Yes, the Tories are broadly opposed to public spending like conservatives in many other places. But the NHS is a complex beast: costs are going up...

        I think it's honestly really difficult to say. Yes, the Tories are broadly opposed to public spending like conservatives in many other places. But the NHS is a complex beast: costs are going up quickly due to population growth and demographic changes, and it is bloated with a managerial class and excessive paperwork burdens that it can't keep up with. So is it starving itself with a lack of efficiency, or is it being starved with a lack of resources to keep up with what's needed?

        I suspect both aspects are true here - the NHS needs more resources, but it needs systems put in place so that those resources are spent where they can actually do useful things.

        8 votes
        1. BuckyMcMonks
          Link Parent
          Thank you for that perspective, I appreciate your response. (Middle-)Management/administrative bloat is a part of any large organization, and so I can see that as a contributing factor,...

          Thank you for that perspective, I appreciate your response. (Middle-)Management/administrative bloat is a part of any large organization, and so I can see that as a contributing factor, definitely. An aging Baby Boomer generation is straining health care systems all over the place, too.

          Please not this is not me blaming "Boomers", I just see it as an obstacle for systems that may not be properly designed (or funded) to handle the scale of the demographic that it is being faced with. I hope that makes sense.

          1 vote
      2. [3]
        SpruceWillis
        Link Parent
        "Starving the Beast" is a very common Tory tactic here as well. The Thatcher government did it with parts of British Rail in the 80's allowing John Major to privatise it in 1993. We're definitely...

        "Starving the Beast" is a very common Tory tactic here as well. The Thatcher government did it with parts of British Rail in the 80's allowing John Major to privatise it in 1993.

        We're definitely seeing the same happen to the NHS, large chunks of it sold to private companies who charge the NHS through the nose, real terms increases in funding which don't take account of changing demographics within the UK, stagnating wages driving some of our best doctors out of the country and our nurses to leave for other easier careers where they're paid more.

        The NHS needs significant reform and I don't believe the only answers are either full blown universal healthcare like we have or US style private healthcare, there's probably a healthy middle ground somewhere, although that'd be political suicide. There's definitely other recommendations for transformation that could be carried out to try and reduce spending in some areas but whether these would have the required impact when NHS spending is such a ginormous part of our governments budget is the question that needs answered.

        I really don't want to be in a position where I tell my daughter at some point in the future that we used to have free healthcare and that during the 90's and 00's when I was growing up, it was great.

        There's a video, although I'm struggling to find it, where Tony Blair is being grilled by members of an audience in the early 00's because when they're phoning their GP's to book appointments they're being told they can see them the same day and that because they're so efficient they're not booking people more than a couple of days ahead.

        I'd love if that was the case now, I've got an appointment with my GP today that I had to book over a week ago and I'd regard that as efficient now compared to some horror stories I've heard. I've got an appointment with my dentist to get fillings on a couple of teeth that was booked in February, the earliest appointment they could give me was July! I might have sleep apnea after I spoke to a doctor at our local hospital last October, I need to go in for overnight monitoring to confirm and I've been told it could be 2025 before I'm called in for this, it's crazy!

        7 votes
        1. 0d_billie
          Link Parent
          I've seen this, and I really like Blair's response to it; he seems genuinely concerned and doesn't try to argue back. He takes the critique on board and intends to look into it. On the flipside,...

          There's a video, although I'm struggling to find it, where Tony Blair is being grilled by members of an audience in the early 00's because when they're phoning their GP's to book appointments they're being told they can see them the same day and that because they're so efficient they're not booking people more than a couple of days ahead.

          I've seen this, and I really like Blair's response to it; he seems genuinely concerned and doesn't try to argue back. He takes the critique on board and intends to look into it. On the flipside, it also demonstrates to me that the public at large will always find something to complain about.

          5 votes
        2. BuckyMcMonks
          Link Parent
          Thank you for taking the time to respond in such detail. That video sounds very poignant. My parents had to interview for a GP last year. It's worrying as a child with aging parents, but much...

          Thank you for taking the time to respond in such detail. That video sounds very poignant. My parents had to interview for a GP last year.

          It's worrying as a child with aging parents, but much moreso as a voter/taxpayer. I can see private health care lobbyists grinding away at this system that literally birthed me and gave me the liberty of opportunities that I've had, things I would not have been able to afford of my health insurance was, say, tied to my employment. My life would have been very different, and almost certainly less satisfactory/self-realizing in that case.

          I'd much rather pay higher taxes and preserve these opportunities for others.

          3 votes
      3. [5]
        infpossibilityspace
        Link Parent
        I believe it's a conscious decision to starve it in order to make private healthcare more enticing.

        I believe it's a conscious decision to starve it in order to make private healthcare more enticing.

        2 votes
        1. [4]
          BuckyMcMonks
          Link Parent
          Yes, that's certainly the strategy I've seen at work in other places. Shortsighted, in my opinion.

          Yes, that's certainly the strategy I've seen at work in other places. Shortsighted, in my opinion.

          1. [3]
            infpossibilityspace
            Link Parent
            Agreed. There are some things which should never be privatised because they exist for the public good - where being profit driven is a disadvantage and leads to worse services, water and...

            Agreed. There are some things which should never be privatised because they exist for the public good - where being profit driven is a disadvantage and leads to worse services, water and electricity are other examples (California wildfires, anyone?).

            We as a society haven't learned that lesson yet.

            2 votes
            1. BuckyMcMonks
              Link Parent
              Health care. Internet access. Education. Criminal justice system. It's atrocious that incidents like the Flint water crisis can happen in the wealthiest nation that's ever existed.

              Health care. Internet access. Education. Criminal justice system.

              It's atrocious that incidents like the Flint water crisis can happen in the wealthiest nation that's ever existed.

              1 vote
            2. DrEvergreen
              Link Parent
              It doesn't lead to worse outcomes for those in power. They get better results, already using private services as it is and now their friends and their shares are worth more money. For those in...

              It doesn't lead to worse outcomes for those in power. They get better results, already using private services as it is and now their friends and their shares are worth more money. For those in power, this is a win-win.

  3. [2]
    SpruceWillis
    Link
    I'm up in Scotland so the Tories were already incredibly unpopular up here but I'm looking forward to seeing them, if opinion polls hold, get their arses handed to them. I understand that the...

    I'm up in Scotland so the Tories were already incredibly unpopular up here but I'm looking forward to seeing them, if opinion polls hold, get their arses handed to them. I understand that the projected seats kind of fall apart with the swings we've seen so it's unlikely we're going to see the Tories fall to third party status but it'll just be nice to have Labour in again and with a potentially huge majority.

    I've lurched from one disaster to the next ever since leaving high school in June 2008. Global financial crisis, Tory government for 14 years asset stripping the country, the NHS and public services beginning to collapse, Brexit, COVID, the war in Ukraine, cost of living crisis, recessions.

    It's just brutal and while I tend to vote SNP, or Scottish Greens, neither of those parties have filled me with confidence lately so if Labour come out with a strong manifesto they may get my vote but either way I'll be much happier with them in power than the Tories.

    I also work for the national auditor up here so it'll be interesting to see if our reporting gets any more positive year on year because as it stands at the moment every year our reporting gets more depressing.

    7 votes
    1. kaffo
      Link Parent
      Also Scottish, although I recently emigrated to live with my partner. Honestly I'm worried that Labour gets 5 years then the tories pull the age old "it's been 5 years and they've done nothing!"...

      Also Scottish, although I recently emigrated to live with my partner.
      Honestly I'm worried that Labour gets 5 years then the tories pull the age old "it's been 5 years and they've done nothing!" because Labour spend 5 years playing cleanup.
      Then the public vote tory again for "something radical".
      It's a vicious circle, people have no patience.

      4 votes
  4. [5]
    0d_billie
    Link
    Is this... hope that I'm feeling?

    Is this... hope that I'm feeling?

    2 votes
    1. [4]
      infpossibilityspace
      Link Parent
      The polls were wrong about brexit, hope means nothing, just encourage people around you to vote.

      The polls were wrong about brexit, hope means nothing, just encourage people around you to vote.

      1. [3]
        mr-strange
        Link Parent
        The polls were right about Brexit.

        The polls were right about Brexit.

        3 votes
        1. [2]
          infpossibilityspace
          Link Parent
          Ohh, you're right, I was thinking about the election of Donald Trump. I was misremembering a video by Jonathan Pie.

          Ohh, you're right, I was thinking about the election of Donald Trump. I was misremembering a video by Jonathan Pie.

          1 vote
          1. Raistlin
            Link Parent
            With respect, the polls were right about Trump too, both times. Clinton and Trump were neck to neck, within the margin of error. What happened was that liberals were telling themselves, with...

            With respect, the polls were right about Trump too, both times. Clinton and Trump were neck to neck, within the margin of error. What happened was that liberals were telling themselves, with nothing to back it up, that Trump wouldn't win. But Trump was a margin of error swing away from winning, which is exactly what happened. The almost same exact margin of error happened with Biden v Trump, but Biden was polling like 5 points ahead, so that margin of error wasn't enough to best Biden.

            I remember 538 being roundly mocked for giving Trump a 33% chance of winning, that it was too high. Every other liberal organisation had him at like 5% or whatever. Fucking delusional.

            5 votes
  5. [2]
    Comment removed by site admin
    Link
    1. Venko
      Link Parent
      We did have fixed election dates via the Fixed-term Parliaments Act but, as parliament is sovereign in the UK, it didn't really mean anything. One election was called despite it using a...

      We did have fixed election dates via the Fixed-term Parliaments Act but, as parliament is sovereign in the UK, it didn't really mean anything. One election was called despite it using a notwithstanding claused act of parliament and then parliament later used its sovereignty to repeal it.

      7 votes