Democratic Debate #3 - Sept 12 2019
I don't have as much to put up here as @alyaza but I thought it'd kick off the discussion as the debate begins.
Watch live on your local ABC station.
Edit: or on YouTube (thanks @deimos) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UWVO0Trd1c
Only 10 candidates and 1 night of debates this time.
There’s a lot of deference to Obama here. The tone is almost like he’s a prophet and everyone is trying to fulfill and decode his message.
I was a big Obama stan and still admire him greatly, but the pseudo-deification is a little weird.
It's a play to the audience at the location.
It really depends on what you define as a "good" president. The only really great thing about his presidency, IMHO, was how well he executed all of the roles a president is supposed to fill.
If it's leadership is the main aspect of what you would consider a good president, then I guess he did a good job. But honestly, with how public the office is, leadership is more of a matter of appearance than of actual skill. That's what I think, at least.
Agreed, the near-reverence is a little weird. Not having paid close attention to elections before the last one, have candidates ever referred to the previous president in such a way?
Republicans did about Reagan.
I feel like I am taking crazy pills, Biden made be cringe as he fumbled through answer after answer, he barely strung a coherent thought together, the moderators cut him off when he continued to doddering on without a point. But today the media seems to be pushing the narrative that Biden did well. What did I miss?
Perhaps a corporate memo full of acceptable television talking points. :P
It's the same thing where they see Warren, Sanders, and Biden in a virtual tie and act like it isn't a total victory for the left wing of the party. If either Sanders or Warren drops out and endorses the other it's good night old Joe.
WINNERS Joe Biden: The first 30 minutes of this debate
Joe Biden held his own
At the end of the night, Joe Biden emerged as the winner and Warren and Sen. Bernie Sanders were the surprise losers.
But it does appear that some of the media has cooled on calling Joe the out and out winner.
There's one thing you should know about Biden, and that is that people somehow think that he's the ideal candidate to defeat Trump, and there are many voters who are primarily choosing their candidate based on that dimension.
My personal thought is that Biden is winning on this dimension simply because he's bland and boring. People think that he's not so liberal, so swing voters will decide on him instead of Trump. Stumbles like this might be an improvement for this type of voter simply because it's a behavior we already expect out of Trump. Sadly, I think the right-wing spin machine will prevent that kind of strategy of ever working.
Aaaand there's Yang's surprise (https://twitter.com/samstein/status/1171848261717635078?s=20) Giving $1000 a month for a year to 10 random people who sign up on his website. Gimmicky? Definitely. Effective? I guess we'll see.
I signed up because I don't mind being on his campaign mailing list. The signup process is so overloaded right now it simply isn't working, so I'd say he definitely got some slashdot effect action going on with that announcement. It's just sitting there at 'signing you up' indefinitely in virgin chrome, with that silly animated yang cartoon jumping up and down.
As usual I'm falling asleep here listening to the usual non-answers being presented in such short, uninformed sound bites. I really, really hate how our parties conduct debates. High school debate clubs do a superior job. sigh
WTF is up with Bernie's voice tonight? He sounds really ragged. Get the man some tea with honey already.
He’s leading in the hoarse race.
Ba dum tiss.
I wonder how many times the pundits will make that joke tomorrow. :P
I’m still cracking up about “I’m Asian, so I know a lot of doctors.”
It could also get him in trouble with anti-bribery laws. You are absolutely never supposed to pay a voter to vote for you, which that could easily be interpreted as.
Yes he's definitely dancing a fine line with this. I really hope he's got some really great lawyers who are armed to the teeth.
He said in prior podcasts that he actually checked with the FEC and DNC before offering his first dividends in Iowa and New Hampshire. They gave his staff a green light, the official word from the FEC was that it was 'an act of philanthropy.'
Warren is getting pressed again on if her health care plan will raise taxes on the middle class, and she unwaveringly drives home the point that overall costs will go down.
It's semantics. Can't believe how many times we've had to go over this during the three debates.
The distinction is important though. The reason she keeps getting asked is the reporters know that if they can trip her up and the words "yes, technically your taxes will go up" come out of her mouth she might as well dig her in political grave.
Weather they're doing it to "get" her, or to make sure she has the opportunity to point out why she thinks her plan is good for the middle class is anyone's guess.
The distinction isn't important... except for political gamesmanship. The question is borne out of Republican talking points.
Its playing really well to the crowd in Texas, and I applaud O'Rourke for speaking his heart about taking away all the assault weapons. Here's clearly very passionate about it. I don't think he'll win the nomination but I hope he'll do great things on the gun topic.
He'll run for Senate, again. That's when he'll be able to shine.
I have a feeling that the Presidential Campaign for some candidates is actually a launching off point for Senate Bids in 2020. I applaud this strategy as without the Senate, we won't be able to fix some of the more fundamental issues we face as a democracy.
Oof. Joe really took that one in the teeth.
538 posted a transcript of the answer and it is.... Oof. That's some word salad there.
Yes he's had a lot of stumbles and meandering answers tonight, not really looking good with that. No real gaffs though (yet).
Except for his little Freudian Slip where he referred to Sanders and President.
That was pretty funny actually.
Can anyone make out what the protesters are yelling?
From Lindsey Mastis at 538:
The only thing that gives me pause about Warren (and Sanders for that matter) is the push to eliminate private insurance in so short a time. It's not an idea that is popular with the people and is a great hammering point for the GOP. I don't like private insurance, and I in general support M4A. I don't think there's any world in which we transition to that system in 4 years - and I don't think that's due to a poverty of imagination. I think it should be a goal rather than a starting point. The US health care system is fucked up and it will take a serious fight to get there, even if the Democrats took the House and Senate. Hell, not even all Democrats support getting rid of private insurance.
I guess this is a somewhat rambling way to say I think the focus should be Medicare for those who want it, private insurance for those who don't, and a public option to get us there. I think people will very quickly realize they like their doctors and hospitals, and don't actually care about their insurance company. All of this talk about "people who like their insurance" seems a little misplace imo.
On a side note, how the hell is O'Rourke still on this stage.
Little details like that don’t actually happen and always get moderated in the legislative sausage machine.
It’s also only really a problem for the insurance industry, which is a concern as it makes people unemployed. But I don’t see why it’s an issue for anyone else. If the concern is whether we can scale up Medicare that fast I think that’s perfectly viable.
The insurance industry as a whole is having over half of its professionals age out over the next 10 years, so this may be a self correcting problem. Some skills don't transfer, but a lot of them will.
Ha. Never heard this term before. Searched it, and its apparently pervasive. I like the analogy.
This is so funny to me, because I work in insurance and see so much hatred of insurance companies. Doubly so for health insurance, which even a lot of us in the industry see as slimy. Every day it's 'ive been paying for 50 years and my rates go up even though I've never filed a claim' or 'insurance companies only make money by denying claims' - until you start talking about actually solving the problem.
This kind of misconception probably explains why so many people are still against single payer. It's as if some folks think it's like opening a personal savings account and making deposits.
Yeah I agree that it's misplaced as I mention later on, but I don't think its a good thing to focus on when even something as basic as a public option will take huge political will to get through. If we want M4A as well, it will be even harder. Not impossible, but including unpopular aspects doesn't help.
Your perspective sounds exactly like Buttigieg's plan.
I felt O'Rourke was strong last night. Probably his best performance of the three debates. He has no chance though.
Yeah I actually posted that comment early in the night. He definitely had a good performance, I was just honestly surprised to see him up there as I haven't heard or thought about him in a while.
I think it’s great that whoever shanks Biden the hardest sees a polling surge. It was Harris before, it’ll be Castro tomorrow.
I only watched about 30 minutes, but man did Biden suck. Maybe he had good moments, but the only moment I saw was his bizarre ramble about turning on the radio / record player / phone / tv?. I cannot imagine geriatric Joe can beat Trump, which is legitametely the only argument for Biden that I have heard. Hell, even his wife agrees that beating Trump is the only reason you would vote for him. Overall, boring soundbites and Biden forgeting what century it is.