15 votes

Democratic Debate #3 - Sept 12 2019

I don't have as much to put up here as @alyaza but I thought it'd kick off the discussion as the debate begins.

Watch live on your local ABC station.
Edit: or on YouTube (thanks @deimos) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UWVO0Trd1c

Only 10 candidates and 1 night of debates this time.

48 comments

  1. [7]
    NaraVara
    Link
    There’s a lot of deference to Obama here. The tone is almost like he’s a prophet and everyone is trying to fulfill and decode his message. I was a big Obama stan and still admire him greatly, but...

    There’s a lot of deference to Obama here. The tone is almost like he’s a prophet and everyone is trying to fulfill and decode his message.

    I was a big Obama stan and still admire him greatly, but the pseudo-deification is a little weird.

    12 votes
    1. Autoxidation
      Link Parent
      It's a play to the audience at the location.

      It's a play to the audience at the location.

      7 votes
    2. [3]
      Loire
      Link Parent
      Obama is the last good President America has had since... Oh... maybe Kenedy? He will go down as one of the second string iconic President's in 50-100 years time. A little bit of deference is fine...

      Obama is the last good President America has had since... Oh... maybe Kenedy? He will go down as one of the second string iconic President's in 50-100 years time. A little bit of deference is fine when you have had an impeached crook, poor foreign policy, Evangelical coup, Evangelical coup's more competent partner, competent sexual predator, "torture and generational wars are a-okay", and America's first totalitarian all in succession.

      There is a dearth of inspiring leadership in America. The one decent candidate is going to be revered.

      5 votes
      1. [2]
        Akir
        Link Parent
        It really depends on what you define as a "good" president. The only really great thing about his presidency, IMHO, was how well he executed all of the roles a president is supposed to fill. If...

        It really depends on what you define as a "good" president. The only really great thing about his presidency, IMHO, was how well he executed all of the roles a president is supposed to fill.

        If it's leadership is the main aspect of what you would consider a good president, then I guess he did a good job. But honestly, with how public the office is, leadership is more of a matter of appearance than of actual skill. That's what I think, at least.

        1 vote
        1. Loire
          Link Parent
          I mean, yes, since the founding of the office that has literally been the main purpose of the role. Sound leadership is important. I see the economic, civil rights, environmental, and national...

          If it's leadership is the main aspect of what you would consider a good president

          I mean, yes, since the founding of the office that has literally been the main purpose of the role. Sound leadership is important.

          It really depends on what you define as a "good" president.

          I see the economic, civil rights, environmental, and national defence achievements he made despite facing possibly the most recalcitrant Congress ever make him a good President. Having the least corrupt and scandal free presidency in half a century works in his favour as well. Regardless of whether you agree with his politics or not, he lead with a steady hand moving the country forward incrementally.

          But you're missing the point of my original post. His contemporaries for the last half century include George W Bush, Donald Trump, and (most likely) a massive sexual predator. He is a good president just by comparison.

          2 votes
    3. [2]
      Omnicrola
      Link Parent
      Agreed, the near-reverence is a little weird. Not having paid close attention to elections before the last one, have candidates ever referred to the previous president in such a way?

      Agreed, the near-reverence is a little weird. Not having paid close attention to elections before the last one, have candidates ever referred to the previous president in such a way?

      1. NaraVara
        Link Parent
        Republicans did about Reagan.

        Republicans did about Reagan.

        5 votes
  2. [7]
    RapidEyeMovement
    (edited )
    Link
    I feel like I am taking crazy pills, Biden made be cringe as he fumbled through answer after answer, he barely strung a coherent thought together, the moderators cut him off when he continued to...

    I feel like I am taking crazy pills, Biden made be cringe as he fumbled through answer after answer, he barely strung a coherent thought together, the moderators cut him off when he continued to doddering on without a point. But today the media seems to be pushing the narrative that Biden did well. What did I miss?

    8 votes
    1. Amarok
      Link Parent
      Perhaps a corporate memo full of acceptable television talking points. :P

      Perhaps a corporate memo full of acceptable television talking points. :P

      6 votes
    2. Diet_Coke
      Link Parent
      It's the same thing where they see Warren, Sanders, and Biden in a virtual tie and act like it isn't a total victory for the left wing of the party. If either Sanders or Warren drops out and...

      It's the same thing where they see Warren, Sanders, and Biden in a virtual tie and act like it isn't a total victory for the left wing of the party. If either Sanders or Warren drops out and endorses the other it's good night old Joe.

      5 votes
    3. [2]
      Loire
      Link Parent
      I've been watching MSNBC and Fox all day, literally segment to segment since 6 am, and the extent of thr Biden praise is "Castro was wrong in his attacks on Biden", followed by utter confusion at...

      I've been watching MSNBC and Fox all day, literally segment to segment since 6 am, and the extent of thr Biden praise is "Castro was wrong in his attacks on Biden", followed by utter confusion at the "record player" comment, with some mentioning it was racist.

      Which media are you watching?

      1 vote
      1. RapidEyeMovement
        Link Parent
        Print mostly. WINNERS Joe Biden: The first 30 minutes of this debate Joe Biden held his own At the end of the night, Joe Biden emerged as the winner and Warren and Sen. Bernie Sanders were the...
        1 vote
    4. Akir
      Link Parent
      There's one thing you should know about Biden, and that is that people somehow think that he's the ideal candidate to defeat Trump, and there are many voters who are primarily choosing their...

      There's one thing you should know about Biden, and that is that people somehow think that he's the ideal candidate to defeat Trump, and there are many voters who are primarily choosing their candidate based on that dimension.

      My personal thought is that Biden is winning on this dimension simply because he's bland and boring. People think that he's not so liberal, so swing voters will decide on him instead of Trump. Stumbles like this might be an improvement for this type of voter simply because it's a behavior we already expect out of Trump. Sadly, I think the right-wing spin machine will prevent that kind of strategy of ever working.

    5. Rez
      Link Parent
      Most media types don't seem to understand why Biden has the polling support he does but nevertheless accept that he has it. It seems to me that they're trying to judge him by a special standard,...

      But today the media seems to be pushing the narrative that Biden did well. What did I miss?

      Most media types don't seem to understand why Biden has the polling support he does but nevertheless accept that he has it. It seems to me that they're trying to judge him by a special standard, whereas most of the other candidates are playing by a different set of debate standards. So the media is basically saying that Biden did well for the context of his candidacy, similarly to how you might've criticized a debate performance of Trump but it could've nevertheless have been an excellent debate for him in the context of his candidacy.

  3. [8]
    Omnicrola
    Link
    Aaaand there's Yang's surprise (https://twitter.com/samstein/status/1171848261717635078?s=20) Giving $1000 a month for a year to 10 random people who sign up on his website. Gimmicky? Definitely....

    Aaaand there's Yang's surprise (https://twitter.com/samstein/status/1171848261717635078?s=20) Giving $1000 a month for a year to 10 random people who sign up on his website. Gimmicky? Definitely. Effective? I guess we'll see.

    6 votes
    1. [3]
      Amarok
      Link Parent
      I signed up because I don't mind being on his campaign mailing list. The signup process is so overloaded right now it simply isn't working, so I'd say he definitely got some slashdot effect action...

      I signed up because I don't mind being on his campaign mailing list. The signup process is so overloaded right now it simply isn't working, so I'd say he definitely got some slashdot effect action going on with that announcement. It's just sitting there at 'signing you up' indefinitely in virgin chrome, with that silly animated yang cartoon jumping up and down.

      As usual I'm falling asleep here listening to the usual non-answers being presented in such short, uninformed sound bites. I really, really hate how our parties conduct debates. High school debate clubs do a superior job. sigh

      WTF is up with Bernie's voice tonight? He sounds really ragged. Get the man some tea with honey already.

      5 votes
      1. [2]
        NaraVara
        Link Parent
        He’s leading in the hoarse race.

        He’s leading in the hoarse race.

        8 votes
        1. Amarok
          Link Parent
          Ba dum tiss. I wonder how many times the pundits will make that joke tomorrow. :P

          Ba dum tiss.

          I wonder how many times the pundits will make that joke tomorrow. :P

          2 votes
    2. NaraVara
      Link Parent
      I’m still cracking up about “I’m Asian, so I know a lot of doctors.”

      I’m still cracking up about “I’m Asian, so I know a lot of doctors.”

      5 votes
    3. [3]
      BuckeyeSundae
      Link Parent
      It could also get him in trouble with anti-bribery laws. You are absolutely never supposed to pay a voter to vote for you, which that could easily be interpreted as.

      It could also get him in trouble with anti-bribery laws. You are absolutely never supposed to pay a voter to vote for you, which that could easily be interpreted as.

      4 votes
      1. [2]
        Omnicrola
        Link Parent
        Yes he's definitely dancing a fine line with this. I really hope he's got some really great lawyers who are armed to the teeth.

        Yes he's definitely dancing a fine line with this. I really hope he's got some really great lawyers who are armed to the teeth.

        3 votes
        1. Amarok
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          He said in prior podcasts that he actually checked with the FEC and DNC before offering his first dividends in Iowa and New Hampshire. They gave his staff a green light, the official word from the...

          He said in prior podcasts that he actually checked with the FEC and DNC before offering his first dividends in Iowa and New Hampshire. They gave his staff a green light, the official word from the FEC was that it was 'an act of philanthropy.'

          7 votes
  4. [4]
    Omnicrola
    Link
    Warren is getting pressed again on if her health care plan will raise taxes on the middle class, and she unwaveringly drives home the point that overall costs will go down.

    Warren is getting pressed again on if her health care plan will raise taxes on the middle class, and she unwaveringly drives home the point that overall costs will go down.

    6 votes
    1. [3]
      Parliament
      Link Parent
      It's semantics. Can't believe how many times we've had to go over this during the three debates.

      It's semantics. Can't believe how many times we've had to go over this during the three debates.

      1 vote
      1. [2]
        Omnicrola
        Link Parent
        The distinction is important though. The reason she keeps getting asked is the reporters know that if they can trip her up and the words "yes, technically your taxes will go up" come out of her...

        The distinction is important though. The reason she keeps getting asked is the reporters know that if they can trip her up and the words "yes, technically your taxes will go up" come out of her mouth she might as well dig her in political grave.

        Weather they're doing it to "get" her, or to make sure she has the opportunity to point out why she thinks her plan is good for the middle class is anyone's guess.

        1 vote
        1. Parliament
          Link Parent
          The distinction isn't important... except for political gamesmanship. The question is borne out of Republican talking points.

          The distinction isn't important... except for political gamesmanship. The question is borne out of Republican talking points.

          4 votes
  5. [3]
    Omnicrola
    Link
    Its playing really well to the crowd in Texas, and I applaud O'Rourke for speaking his heart about taking away all the assault weapons. Here's clearly very passionate about it. I don't think he'll...

    Its playing really well to the crowd in Texas, and I applaud O'Rourke for speaking his heart about taking away all the assault weapons. Here's clearly very passionate about it. I don't think he'll win the nomination but I hope he'll do great things on the gun topic.

    4 votes
    1. [2]
      GnomeChompski
      Link Parent
      He'll run for Senate, again. That's when he'll be able to shine.

      He'll run for Senate, again. That's when he'll be able to shine.

      1 vote
      1. DangerChips
        Link Parent
        I have a feeling that the Presidential Campaign for some candidates is actually a launching off point for Senate Bids in 2020. I applaud this strategy as without the Senate, we won't be able to...

        I have a feeling that the Presidential Campaign for some candidates is actually a launching off point for Senate Bids in 2020. I applaud this strategy as without the Senate, we won't be able to fix some of the more fundamental issues we face as a democracy.

        2 votes
  6. [5]
    Amarok
    Link
    Oof. Joe really took that one in the teeth.

    Oof. Joe really took that one in the teeth.

    4 votes
    1. [4]
      Micycle_the_Bichael
      Link Parent
      538 posted a transcript of the answer and it is.... Oof. That's some word salad there.

      538 posted a transcript of the answer and it is.... Oof. That's some word salad there.

      2 votes
      1. [3]
        Omnicrola
        Link Parent
        Yes he's had a lot of stumbles and meandering answers tonight, not really looking good with that. No real gaffs though (yet).

        Yes he's had a lot of stumbles and meandering answers tonight, not really looking good with that. No real gaffs though (yet).

        2 votes
        1. [2]
          GnomeChompski
          Link Parent
          Except for his little Freudian Slip where he referred to Sanders and President.

          Except for his little Freudian Slip where he referred to Sanders and President.

          1. Omnicrola
            Link Parent
            That was pretty funny actually.

            That was pretty funny actually.

  7. [2]
    Omnicrola
    Link
    Can anyone make out what the protesters are yelling?

    Can anyone make out what the protesters are yelling?

    4 votes
  8. [10]
    gpl
    Link
    The only thing that gives me pause about Warren (and Sanders for that matter) is the push to eliminate private insurance in so short a time. It's not an idea that is popular with the people and is...

    The only thing that gives me pause about Warren (and Sanders for that matter) is the push to eliminate private insurance in so short a time. It's not an idea that is popular with the people and is a great hammering point for the GOP. I don't like private insurance, and I in general support M4A. I don't think there's any world in which we transition to that system in 4 years - and I don't think that's due to a poverty of imagination. I think it should be a goal rather than a starting point. The US health care system is fucked up and it will take a serious fight to get there, even if the Democrats took the House and Senate. Hell, not even all Democrats support getting rid of private insurance.

    I guess this is a somewhat rambling way to say I think the focus should be Medicare for those who want it, private insurance for those who don't, and a public option to get us there. I think people will very quickly realize they like their doctors and hospitals, and don't actually care about their insurance company. All of this talk about "people who like their insurance" seems a little misplace imo.

    On a side note, how the hell is O'Rourke still on this stage.

    3 votes
    1. [3]
      NaraVara
      Link Parent
      Little details like that don’t actually happen and always get moderated in the legislative sausage machine. It’s also only really a problem for the insurance industry, which is a concern as it...

      Little details like that don’t actually happen and always get moderated in the legislative sausage machine.

      It’s also only really a problem for the insurance industry, which is a concern as it makes people unemployed. But I don’t see why it’s an issue for anyone else. If the concern is whether we can scale up Medicare that fast I think that’s perfectly viable.

      9 votes
      1. Diet_Coke
        Link Parent
        The insurance industry as a whole is having over half of its professionals age out over the next 10 years, so this may be a self correcting problem. Some skills don't transfer, but a lot of them will.

        The insurance industry as a whole is having over half of its professionals age out over the next 10 years, so this may be a self correcting problem. Some skills don't transfer, but a lot of them will.

        4 votes
      2. krg
        Link Parent
        Ha. Never heard this term before. Searched it, and its apparently pervasive. I like the analogy.

        legislative sausage machine.

        Ha. Never heard this term before. Searched it, and its apparently pervasive. I like the analogy.

    2. [3]
      Diet_Coke
      Link Parent
      This is so funny to me, because I work in insurance and see so much hatred of insurance companies. Doubly so for health insurance, which even a lot of us in the industry see as slimy. Every day...

      The only thing that gives me pause about Warren (and Sanders for that matter) is the push to eliminate private insurance in so short a time. It's not an idea that is popular with the people and is a great hammering point for the GOP.

      This is so funny to me, because I work in insurance and see so much hatred of insurance companies. Doubly so for health insurance, which even a lot of us in the industry see as slimy. Every day it's 'ive been paying for 50 years and my rates go up even though I've never filed a claim' or 'insurance companies only make money by denying claims' - until you start talking about actually solving the problem.

      5 votes
      1. SantalBlush
        Link Parent
        This kind of misconception probably explains why so many people are still against single payer. It's as if some folks think it's like opening a personal savings account and making deposits.

        Every day it's 'ive been paying for 50 years and my rates go up even though I've never filed a claim'

        This kind of misconception probably explains why so many people are still against single payer. It's as if some folks think it's like opening a personal savings account and making deposits.

        3 votes
      2. gpl
        Link Parent
        Yeah I agree that it's misplaced as I mention later on, but I don't think its a good thing to focus on when even something as basic as a public option will take huge political will to get through....

        Yeah I agree that it's misplaced as I mention later on, but I don't think its a good thing to focus on when even something as basic as a public option will take huge political will to get through. If we want M4A as well, it will be even harder. Not impossible, but including unpopular aspects doesn't help.

        1 vote
    3. Archimedes
      Link Parent
      Your perspective sounds exactly like Buttigieg's plan.

      Your perspective sounds exactly like Buttigieg's plan.

      Medicare for All Who Want It” as a pathway to Medicare for All

      Pete believes in universal health care. The health care system we have today is both unjust and inefficient. For the first time since World War I, life expectancy is falling. If you’re uninsured, you’re paying too much for health care. If you’re insured, you’re still paying too much. This burdens hard-working families, especially in communities of color, the most. Other developed countries provide universal coverage for less than what Americans currently pay — and with better results. The American people should not have to settle for less.

      Pete supports achieving Medicare for All through a pathway that helps improve people’s lives along the way while allowing the economy to adjust. He calls this “Medicare for All Who Want It.” This plan makes a Medicare-type public option available on the exchange and invites people to buy into it: if corporate insurers don’t lower costs to deliver something dramatically better than what is available today, competition will create the glide path toward Medicare for All.

      2 votes
    4. [2]
      Parliament
      Link Parent
      I felt O'Rourke was strong last night. Probably his best performance of the three debates. He has no chance though.

      On a side note, how the hell is O'Rourke still on this stage.

      I felt O'Rourke was strong last night. Probably his best performance of the three debates. He has no chance though.

      1. gpl
        Link Parent
        Yeah I actually posted that comment early in the night. He definitely had a good performance, I was just honestly surprised to see him up there as I haven't heard or thought about him in a while.

        Yeah I actually posted that comment early in the night. He definitely had a good performance, I was just honestly surprised to see him up there as I haven't heard or thought about him in a while.

  9. NaraVara
    Link
    I think it’s great that whoever shanks Biden the hardest sees a polling surge. It was Harris before, it’ll be Castro tomorrow.

    I think it’s great that whoever shanks Biden the hardest sees a polling surge. It was Harris before, it’ll be Castro tomorrow.

    3 votes
  10. Arshan
    Link
    I only watched about 30 minutes, but man did Biden suck. Maybe he had good moments, but the only moment I saw was his bizarre ramble about turning on the radio / record player / phone / tv?. I...

    I only watched about 30 minutes, but man did Biden suck. Maybe he had good moments, but the only moment I saw was his bizarre ramble about turning on the radio / record player / phone / tv?. I cannot imagine geriatric Joe can beat Trump, which is legitametely the only argument for Biden that I have heard. Hell, even his wife agrees that beating Trump is the only reason you would vote for him. Overall, boring soundbites and Biden forgeting what century it is.

    2 votes