As with every time this sort of thing comes along, I wonder why factorisation and ease of divisibility is considered so important. It's really not something that comes up all that often and,...
As with every time this sort of thing comes along, I wonder why factorisation and ease of divisibility is considered so important. It's really not something that comes up all that often and, unlike how my maths teacher insisted during high school in the pre-smartphone era, I actually do have a calculator in my pocket every day.
Seximal isn't a better way to count than decimal. It's more attractive if you're the kind of maths nerd who likes things to be tidy (and that's fine, nothing against maths nerds! maths nerds are important). But decimal is better because people have ten fingers.
I always see these counting and number-base discussions as being very similar to the discussions about alternative keyboard layouts (Dvorak/Colemak/etc) - some alternative might be better in a...
I always see these counting and number-base discussions as being very similar to the discussions about alternative keyboard layouts (Dvorak/Colemak/etc) - some alternative might be better in a vacuum, but what everyone else uses has the advantage of being what everyone else uses, regardless of whatever weaknesses it might have.
Maybe if you're learning to count/type completely from scratch, and you never have to deal with anyone else's keyboards/numbers, it makes sense, but in practice, that never happens.
And I say all of this as one of those nerds who taught himself Dvorak!
I’m with you all the way, however there was a numberphile(maybe Vsauce but pretty sure NP) that pointed out that we have four fingers with 3 segments each, so it is possible to count base 12 on...
I’m with you all the way, however there was a numberphile(maybe Vsauce but pretty sure NP) that pointed out that we have four fingers with 3 segments each, so it is possible to count base 12 on one hand. That being said I like base 10.
You don't raise them separately, you use your thumb to count on them; I don't remember the exact order you're supposed to use, but I start at the base segment of the pinky as 1, middle as 2, end...
You don't raise them separately, you use your thumb to count on them; I don't remember the exact order you're supposed to use, but I start at the base segment of the pinky as 1, middle as 2, end segment 3, base of ring finger as 4, etc until the end of the index finger as 12
On the contrary, most hands have 5 fingers, and most people have 2 hands, which means many people can actually finger count quite naturally from 0-35, with one hand representing the 1s place and...
On the contrary, most hands have 5 fingers, and most people have 2 hands, which means many people can actually finger count quite naturally from 0-35, with one hand representing the 1s place and the other representing the 6s place. I also think if people learned to finger count in this way at a very young age, it would make the concept of alternate base a lot less arcane for children. Also, I think if this sort of thing was more widespread, it would make it way easier for hearing people to communicate values larger than 10 to people who are deaf or hard of hearing if they needed to for some reason and couldn’t use writing.
Many years ago I taught myself binary finger counting. It is neat, but personally, I don’t agree with the “easily” part, as I found it required an inconvenient level of manual dexterity. Also, as...
Many years ago I taught myself binary finger counting. It is neat, but personally, I don’t agree with the “easily” part, as I found it required an inconvenient level of manual dexterity. Also, as a person with a pretty severe vision impairment (thankfully correctable), it’s a lot more challenging to be able to see the difference between the different states in binary finger counting vs just distinguishing 0-5 fingers.
Thanks so much for this! Its the worst thing when you encounter a kind of intereresting written article and its only one paragraph and a link to a video. Like, good job getting my hopes up, I...
Thanks so much for this! Its the worst thing when you encounter a kind of intereresting written article and its only one paragraph and a link to a video. Like, good job getting my hopes up, I wouldn't have clicked if it was a straight link to YouTube.
Sure thing, I get it. I have the videos tag filtered because I can't stand watching something instead of reading, and nobody posts transcript links because most videos don't have subtitles (thanks...
Sure thing, I get it. I have the videos tag filtered because I can't stand watching something instead of reading, and nobody posts transcript links because most videos don't have subtitles (thanks to YouTube removing community captions).
...I'm going to have to find a way to use that 4=4 image as often as I can. Seriously though, finger binary seems pretty cool and all, but I think it's overkill for the majority of counting...
...I'm going to have to find a way to use that 4=4 image as often as I can.
Seriously though, finger binary seems pretty cool and all, but I think it's overkill for the majority of counting situations. I use a scheme I made up where I count the knuckles on my fingers using my thumb. So the base of the index finger is 1, second knuckle up is 2, then 3, tip is 4, base of middle finger is 5, and so on. You can get up to 16 on one hand in the obvious manner, and with some less straightforward use of the thumb knuckles I can get up to 20, which, sure, is not as many as 31 but is plenty for what I am usually counting. You can duplicate with the other hand to go all the way up to 400 if you need to count really high.
A major benefit of this scheme (at least for me) is that I can count on my fingers without having to stop and think about what configuration I need for the next number. It's a lot easier to just move the thumb to the next knuckle than to raise and lower fingers to represent binary.
As a non-math-nerd with a partner who definitely is, I can concur with that. He talks mathy things a lot of the time and while there are many things I can sort of follow along with (if explained...
Seximal would probably have gone over easier but outside of math nerds it's really hard to get people to even grok the concept of non-decimal bases at all
As a non-math-nerd with a partner who definitely is, I can concur with that. He talks mathy things a lot of the time and while there are many things I can sort of follow along with (if explained slowly and with lots of diagrams), working with systems other than base 10 always throws me for a loop. It's like any intuition I have with numbers goes completely out the window.
I've tried exploring the seximal website and the feeling I get is similar. It doesn't feel intuative and I have to 'translate' everything back to base 10 in order to know what number is being referred to. But it would probably help to have someone explain it in person so I can bombard them with questions and work through lots of examples with them.
Wow, thank you so much for this! I'm sat in a station waiting for a late night train and working through this in a notebook has sustained me a bit. And counting in seximal makes some kind of sense...
Wow, thank you so much for this! I'm sat in a station waiting for a late night train and working through this in a notebook has sustained me a bit. And counting in seximal makes some kind of sense to me now. I can even see how I might put it to use counting things on my hands.
I actually don't think I have any questions, which might be a first for me and math-related things. Though it might be helped by the fact that I had to work through everything myself in order to work out what my questions might be.
I'm one of these people, and I apparently subconsciously corrected for this without even thinking about it. If counting on my hands I touch my thumb to each fingertip and then stick my thumb out...
he makes a solid point about people who can't independently move their pinkies from their ring fingers.
I'm one of these people, and I apparently subconsciously corrected for this without even thinking about it. If counting on my hands I touch my thumb to each fingertip and then stick my thumb out to mentally count off a five.
Was interested about that finger binary for counting cause I always have trouble keeping track of numbers, but feels super uncomfortable for me trying to just keep my ring finger up for 8 like you...
Was interested about that finger binary for counting cause I always have trouble keeping track of numbers, but feels super uncomfortable for me trying to just keep my ring finger up for 8 like you mentioned.
I forget when I learned it, but I use something similar to that to count to a max of 99 and feel that's good enough for me. Right fingers are 1, right thumb is 5, left fingers are 10, and left thumb is 50. Covers most of my bases.
Seximal is only half as good as we need. I completely agree that the primary of the decimal system exists only because of fingers. However base 12 is far superior.
Seximal is only half as good as we need. I completely agree that the primary of the decimal system exists only because of fingers. However base 12 is far superior.
As with every time this sort of thing comes along, I wonder why factorisation and ease of divisibility is considered so important. It's really not something that comes up all that often and, unlike how my maths teacher insisted during high school in the pre-smartphone era, I actually do have a calculator in my pocket every day.
Seximal isn't a better way to count than decimal. It's more attractive if you're the kind of maths nerd who likes things to be tidy (and that's fine, nothing against maths nerds! maths nerds are important). But decimal is better because people have ten fingers.
Anyway, yan, tan, tethera, methera, pip, etc.
I always see these counting and number-base discussions as being very similar to the discussions about alternative keyboard layouts (Dvorak/Colemak/etc) - some alternative might be better in a vacuum, but what everyone else uses has the advantage of being what everyone else uses, regardless of whatever weaknesses it might have.
Maybe if you're learning to count/type completely from scratch, and you never have to deal with anyone else's keyboards/numbers, it makes sense, but in practice, that never happens.
And I say all of this as one of those nerds who taught himself Dvorak!
I’m with you all the way, however there was a numberphile(maybe Vsauce but pretty sure NP) that pointed out that we have four fingers with 3 segments each, so it is possible to count base 12 on one hand. That being said I like base 10.
Wait can you raise each segment of your finger individually? I can separate the first knuckle, but then it sort of rolls into the second two segments.
You don't raise them separately, you use your thumb to count on them; I don't remember the exact order you're supposed to use, but I start at the base segment of the pinky as 1, middle as 2, end segment 3, base of ring finger as 4, etc until the end of the index finger as 12
I found this quick video which demonstrates counting to 12 on one hand.
On the contrary, most hands have 5 fingers, and most people have 2 hands, which means many people can actually finger count quite naturally from 0-35, with one hand representing the 1s place and the other representing the 6s place. I also think if people learned to finger count in this way at a very young age, it would make the concept of alternate base a lot less arcane for children. Also, I think if this sort of thing was more widespread, it would make it way easier for hearing people to communicate values larger than 10 to people who are deaf or hard of hearing if they needed to for some reason and couldn’t use writing.
Each finger has two states, up and down. These naturally correspond to 1 and 0, so you could use your fingers to count to 1023 quite easily.
Many years ago I taught myself binary finger counting. It is neat, but personally, I don’t agree with the “easily” part, as I found it required an inconvenient level of manual dexterity. Also, as a person with a pretty severe vision impairment (thankfully correctable), it’s a lot more challenging to be able to see the difference between the different states in binary finger counting vs just distinguishing 0-5 fingers.
I love the dales counting words, they're so delightful to the ear. Here's a little folk song that uses them in the chorus!
Transcript
Thanks so much for this! Its the worst thing when you encounter a kind of intereresting written article and its only one paragraph and a link to a video. Like, good job getting my hopes up, I wouldn't have clicked if it was a straight link to YouTube.
Sure thing, I get it. I have the
videostag filtered because I can't stand watching something instead of reading, and nobody posts transcript links because most videos don't have subtitles (thanks to YouTube removing community captions)....I'm going to have to find a way to use that 4=4 image as often as I can.
Seriously though, finger binary seems pretty cool and all, but I think it's overkill for the majority of counting situations. I use a scheme I made up where I count the knuckles on my fingers using my thumb. So the base of the index finger is 1, second knuckle up is 2, then 3, tip is 4, base of middle finger is 5, and so on. You can get up to 16 on one hand in the obvious manner, and with some less straightforward use of the thumb knuckles I can get up to 20, which, sure, is not as many as 31 but is plenty for what I am usually counting. You can duplicate with the other hand to go all the way up to 400 if you need to count really high.
A major benefit of this scheme (at least for me) is that I can count on my fingers without having to stop and think about what configuration I need for the next number. It's a lot easier to just move the thumb to the next knuckle than to raise and lower fingers to represent binary.
As a non-math-nerd with a partner who definitely is, I can concur with that. He talks mathy things a lot of the time and while there are many things I can sort of follow along with (if explained slowly and with lots of diagrams), working with systems other than base 10 always throws me for a loop. It's like any intuition I have with numbers goes completely out the window.
I've tried exploring the seximal website and the feeling I get is similar. It doesn't feel intuative and I have to 'translate' everything back to base 10 in order to know what number is being referred to. But it would probably help to have someone explain it in person so I can bombard them with questions and work through lots of examples with them.
Wow, thank you so much for this! I'm sat in a station waiting for a late night train and working through this in a notebook has sustained me a bit. And counting in seximal makes some kind of sense to me now. I can even see how I might put it to use counting things on my hands.
I actually don't think I have any questions, which might be a first for me and math-related things. Though it might be helped by the fact that I had to work through everything myself in order to work out what my questions might be.
Ha, yes :-)
I'm one of these people, and I apparently subconsciously corrected for this without even thinking about it. If counting on my hands I touch my thumb to each fingertip and then stick my thumb out to mentally count off a five.
Was interested about that finger binary for counting cause I always have trouble keeping track of numbers, but feels super uncomfortable for me trying to just keep my ring finger up for 8 like you mentioned.
I forget when I learned it, but I use something similar to that to count to a max of 99 and feel that's good enough for me. Right fingers are 1, right thumb is 5, left fingers are 10, and left thumb is 50. Covers most of my bases.
Then, by definition, it is not arbitrary.
Seximal is only half as good as we need. I completely agree that the primary of the decimal system exists only because of fingers. However base 12 is far superior.
You should watch the video before commenting :-)
Completely right. You are totally correct. My bad!
Also, you know you can tell if a number is divisible by 3 by just adding up all the digits in base 10?
In seximal, this property will only work for 5.
“seximal is a positional notation numbering system that uses base six”
That’s not exactly where I thought this was going with a name like that.