Slightly off topic, but I have noticed a huge uptick in apathy/defeatism posts everywhere. Whether the posts are from actual people or from bots trying to sway public opinion, I think following...
Slightly off topic, but I have noticed a huge uptick in apathy/defeatism posts everywhere.
Whether the posts are from actual people or from bots trying to sway public opinion, I think following the advice would be detrimental to America.
Basically the outcome of this election. We might have already killed it. Only time will tell, now. As to your other point about defeatism, I think a lot of people are still in...
Democracy dies when participants check out.
Basically the outcome of this election. We might have already killed it. Only time will tell, now.
As to your other point about defeatism, I think a lot of people are still in shock/mourning/distress based on this outcome. People need varying amounts of time to process and move forward. I think attitudes will change over time. For every defeatist post you see, there's possibly 1 or more people that have been spurred into action as the result as well.
I agree wholeheartedly. It just baffled me how this post claims to be a fervent follower of these shows and then just does a 180 and say haha suckers, we won, what are you going to do now.
I agree wholeheartedly. It just baffled me how this post claims to be a fervent follower of these shows and then just does a 180 and say haha suckers, we won, what are you going to do now.
It's not just bots, I'm seeing a lot of it from college students IRL and my millennial friends who feel exhausted of "unprecedented times" and needing "resilience" and just want to rest. Gen Z is...
It's not just bots, I'm seeing a lot of it from college students IRL and my millennial friends who feel exhausted of "unprecedented times" and needing "resilience" and just want to rest.
Gen Z is tough but doesn't really remember surviving the first Trump presidency. And some of the people who do, are feeling hopeless about the number of people voting for him again and everything putting us back here for Round 2.
It takes some work to move from that darkness to the "we can survive this, we can make things better." And what people vent online doesn't tend to be the happy stuff.
Bush 2004 springs to mind. Likewise, doomerism among Gen X who thought Bush '04 was a fluke. If his second go is anything like his first, it'll be easier than the fatalists would want you to...
feeling hopeless about the number of people voting for him again and everything putting us back here for Round 2.
Bush 2004 springs to mind. Likewise, doomerism among Gen X who thought Bush '04 was a fluke.
surviving the first Trump presidency
If his second go is anything like his first, it'll be easier than the fatalists would want you to believe. As I've said elsewhere, it's the state-level policies where I see the worst impacts on citizens before 2030 (Trump wants to direct Federal attention at immigrants and will be too busy with that to multi-task at oppressing the citizens competently).
Yeah I'm an old millennial and while I'd voted against Bush, I didn't have the same level of doom I do these days. Maybe it's just being older and exhausted. Maybe. It depends on who you are....
Bush 2004 springs to mind. Likewise, doomerism among Gen X who thought Bush '04 was a fluke.
Yeah I'm an old millennial and while I'd voted against Bush, I didn't have the same level of doom I do these days. Maybe it's just being older and exhausted.
If his second go is anything like his first, it'll be easier than the fatalists would want you to believe. As I've said elsewhere, it's the state-level policies where I see the worst impacts on citizens before 2030 (Trump wants to direct Federal attention at immigrants and will be too busy with that to multi-task at oppressing the citizens competently).
Maybe. It depends on who you are. Because redirecting so much power to the states means a lack of safety and security for a lot of people. Trump doesn't have to multitask if he gets some of his picks in to offices where they can dismantle regulations and safety, especially the long rulemaking process ones. Raw milk while our dairy farms are spreading bird flu? Sure RFK2, sounds great.
And bonus FLSA increases have been put on hold again, just like in 2016, so those are likely out for salaried employees. Not survival just quality of life.
Regarding apathy I think Russia is a good example of what happens when the population stops caring - authoritarianism flourishes. While Russia was on the path to democracy in the 90's, it never...
Regarding apathy I think Russia is a good example of what happens when the population stops caring - authoritarianism flourishes. While Russia was on the path to democracy in the 90's, it never really went very far, and especially in the 00's after Putin came to power the population became mostly apathetic to the point that it was a problem for him when he invaded Ukraine. Of course, resistance is important but it is basically impossible to actually oppose him and his party. There are faux elections and in the Duma, there is only the veneer of opposition.
As we all know, Trump takes many pages out of Putin's playbook and despite his incompetency in many areas, I would 100% believe that he would not mind that the population becomes apathetic - it would benefit him and his party more than almost anything else, so I think the Republicans will start really pushing it.
I'm glad we have ~society now because over the past few weeks the first few posts on the frontpage feel like an ongoing therapy session. Personally I do not really understand it, well over half I...
I'm glad we have ~society now because over the past few weeks the first few posts on the frontpage feel like an ongoing therapy session.
Personally I do not really understand it, well over half I read is so pessimistic I don't even recognize the world they're seeing. Granted, I'm not a US citizen, but I still keep up with the news.
I think if you're not in the US it might be hard to understand. Donald Trump is proud to be cruel, gross, and selfish. Even if you don't think he will do all of the things he says he will do, and...
I think if you're not in the US it might be hard to understand.
Donald Trump is proud to be cruel, gross, and selfish.
Even if you don't think he will do all of the things he says he will do, and even if you personally are not afraid of the people he is putting in charge, there is another element that feels very ominous.
Namely, watching the people around you, including your family, neighbors, and friends start supporting a man who is shameless about being a really shitty person. These people who you loved and respected, who you trusted to babysit your kids or who babysat you when you were younger, they are putting angry and hateful signs in their yard and walking around with red hats on.
They start spewing venom anytime somebody mentions the words "liberal," "gay," "democrat," etc. It's scary no matter what, but it's even more unsettling If one of their trigger words is something that describes you personally.
Yesterday, a Trumper told me that Democrats need to step aside and say, "Yes sir, thank you sir," while the Republicans fix the country. That's pretty fucking frightening to hear from a person I know in real life.
At the school where I teach, the middle schoolers were in the cafeteria chanting, "TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP!" in unison. This kind of relationship with politics is not healthy and the fact that it's happening with middle schoolers should be concerning to anyone. Middle schoolers don't give a shit about politics when things are going well. Trust me on that, I'm with them every day.
On good days, I feel that these people are misinformed victims of propaganda campaigns. I see them as vulnerable and in need of support. I see how the Democrats failed to reach them and allowed them to be taken in by wolves and sheep's clothing.
On bad days, I see hateful stupidity and doubt that humankind will ever move on from our violent and selfish urges. I feel lonely like only 30 to 50% of people have empathy and critical thinking skills. I wonder if perhaps this nastiness existed in them all along and all they needed was permission to let it out.
I think for many Americans it's that we all had huge amounts of hope for Kamala. It had felt like there was a lot of energy and people were excited to vote for her, at least in the circle's I run...
I think for many Americans it's that we all had huge amounts of hope for Kamala. It had felt like there was a lot of energy and people were excited to vote for her, at least in the circle's I run in.
It felt like we had a good chance and if we could just get her in, we could stop hearing about Trump, because in the next 4 years he'd probably be dead or entirely too old to run in 2028.
Obviously, that didn't happen. I think the general feeling might have been different if the vote had been close, but it was essentially a landslide for Trump because so many people didn't bother to vote at all. This lead to lots of hopes and optimism dashed and people are still coping with what feels like a dramatic change in fortunes.
While I understand your view and can sympathize with it until a certain point I don't think that will benefit humanity as a whole. I feel we have an obligation to be a diverse species where all...
While I understand your view and can sympathize with it until a certain point I don't think that will benefit humanity as a whole. I feel we have an obligation to be a diverse species where all voices are heard, where everyone can have a home, feel safe, find joy and happiness, all in a sustainable manner. If democracy were to disappear I feel we are left to the devices of those with the loudest voices or the strongest armies. I cannot believe they have the best intentions for everyone in mind.
I think a lot of pro-democracy people are still feeling defeated right now, I know I am in some ways. I hope after some rest and encouragement, we gather our bearings and continue the cause....
I think a lot of pro-democracy people are still feeling defeated right now, I know I am in some ways. I hope after some rest and encouragement, we gather our bearings and continue the cause.
There's the phrase "because if you don't laugh, you'll cry," maybe some of us have decided this time it's okay to cry. Sometimes things straight up aren't okay, and it's just not funny anymore. I offered to watch some Jon Stewart with my friend who felt defeated after the election results, because I recall Jon had a segment before the election that pointed out that no matter who wins, we've still got a lot of work to do (and that Trump winning isn't gonna be the end of it all). But my friend, like the Reddit poster, just wasn't feeling it anymore. And that's okay.
If people want to feel defeatist, that's okay. The ones who don't can find each other and start building again. And hopefully more can join in once they feel better.
I don't know if I like anything in this post beyond the first sentence. All I know is that my wife and I have done the same thing. We would watch the previous night's late night TV in the morning...
I don't know if I like anything in this post beyond the first sentence. All I know is that my wife and I have done the same thing. We would watch the previous night's late night TV in the morning with coffee before I go to work and now we just don't want to. I suppose this is the downside to late night being so much more focused on politics than they used to be.
Things are complicated right? One could argue that in order to stay relevant (and secure funding) these shows have to mimic each other with topics that drive engagement. I hope you and your wife...
Things are complicated right? One could argue that in order to stay relevant (and secure funding) these shows have to mimic each other with topics that drive engagement. I hope you and your wife can process all of this in due time and find some solace in that not everything is lost.
EDIT: I've come to the conclusion thanks to insight from others that I've interpreted the initial post in the wrong way. I'd like to apologize for any confusion this may have caused.
Last night @smoontjes told me about a reddit post they had read about what the point is in comedy shows if they don't bring the societal change they preach. They asked my take on this and after reading the post and seeing how it blew up something didn't sit right with me.
As a disclaimer I don't want to raise pitchforks, far from it. This is purely meant as an analysis of what was posted. This is in no way meant as defamatory.
> I’ve been watching John Oliver, Daily Show and some nightly talk shows for years and decades, but after this election I just can’t bring myself to do it anymore, for a few reasons.
So far so good, one can change what they like and decide not to watch something anymore.
> Part of the show is telling us about whatever scandals and schemes politicians are involved in, and now I think “who cares, nothing’s gonna happen to them and there is nothing they could ever say or do that would make their followers abandon them.” so it’s pointless to watch because it’s just gonna be some mad/sad added to my day.
This is where it becomes a little iffy to me. It feels like they blame their audience for being unable to move on and just accept whatever may come. They question why they would want that in their lives. The latter part makes sense, don't watch something if it doesn't bring you something positive.
> Another part of the show is telling us about whatever new policies they enact that will be bad for us, and now I think “uh, yeah, no shit, we know, that’s why we didn’t vote for them and told people not to vote for them.”, so it’s pointless to watch because it’s just gonna be some mad/sad added to my day.
Essentially a repeat from the section before it.
> And the biggest part of the show is that all of the comedy is based around “we’re so smart, they’re so dumb, we’re so normal, they’re so weird, we’re good and they’re bad.” and now I think “They just won the election by both electoral and popular vote and improved in almost every demographic since 2020, which means all of your little jokes meant nothing and in the end they absolutely fucking owned you and got the last laugh.”
They really try to drive their point home and this is where it derails for me completely. Now they're adding to the polarization and blaming it on the comedy shows and essentially showing their true colors. It appears they claim victory from their point of view (and reveal who they voted for essentially.) And the entire post just feels like questioning the entire point of having these comedy shows in the first place. That these shows essentially only exist to appease the other voters and that it serves no purpose now that "they" have lost.
EDIT: I've come to the conclusion thanks to insight from others that I've interpreted the initial post in the wrong way. I'd like to apologize for any confusion this may have caused.
I don’t read it as blaming comedy shows, and I certainly don’t read it as being some kind of secret Republican post. I think that’s a super weird take, and I’m having trouble understanding how you...
Now they're adding to the polarization and blaming it on the comedy shows and essentially showing their true colors. It appears they claim victory from their point of view (and reveal who they voted for essentially.)
I don’t read it as blaming comedy shows, and I certainly don’t read it as being some kind of secret Republican post. I think that’s a super weird take, and I’m having trouble understanding how you got there.
They’re clearly just really upset with the election outcome.
Maybe you're right. Thinking about it again and reading it it's odd how my mind sometimes just instantly hops to certain conclusion. I'll take the post down in roughly 24hours.
Maybe you're right. Thinking about it again and reading it it's odd how my mind sometimes just instantly hops to certain conclusion. I'll take the post down in roughly 24hours.
I remember when the Boston Bruins got knocked out of the first round of the playoffs after setting the single season points record, I felt the same way. I had watched nearly every regular season...
I remember when the Boston Bruins got knocked out of the first round of the playoffs after setting the single season points record, I felt the same way. I had watched nearly every regular season game, and was invested so much in all of our players. But after the loss, it wasn't just staying away from hockey games - I had to avoid any mention of sports. Even playing sports video games was distressing to me, the stink of loss. So yeah, of course you're unplugging, you're a sore loser like me.
Now for a more charitable interpretation. I happened to check Reddit the day before the election. I remember what the top post was: an "empty Trump rally in North Carolina". At some point, you just get sick of being played with. Everyone following the race knew it was 50 / 50 at best for Harris. Much like the current link post's discussion of John Oliver, there's a whole industry toying with your political emotions. As another example, consider all the legal podcasts, YouTubes, etc telling us Trump was one step away from prison. This is a bit disjoint, but it's all to say I think people want something more tangible and productive in politics, and are reassessing what they thought it meant to be engaged. Real engagement would have delivered tangible wins, even small ones.
Slightly off topic, but I have noticed a huge uptick in apathy/defeatism posts everywhere.
Whether the posts are from actual people or from bots trying to sway public opinion, I think following the advice would be detrimental to America.
The incoming administration wants your apathy.
Democracy dies when participants check out.
Basically the outcome of this election. We might have already killed it. Only time will tell, now.
As to your other point about defeatism, I think a lot of people are still in shock/mourning/distress based on this outcome. People need varying amounts of time to process and move forward. I think attitudes will change over time. For every defeatist post you see, there's possibly 1 or more people that have been spurred into action as the result as well.
I agree wholeheartedly. It just baffled me how this post claims to be a fervent follower of these shows and then just does a 180 and say haha suckers, we won, what are you going to do now.
That's not the impression I got whilst reading it..
edit: saw your rectification
It's not just bots, I'm seeing a lot of it from college students IRL and my millennial friends who feel exhausted of "unprecedented times" and needing "resilience" and just want to rest.
Gen Z is tough but doesn't really remember surviving the first Trump presidency. And some of the people who do, are feeling hopeless about the number of people voting for him again and everything putting us back here for Round 2.
It takes some work to move from that darkness to the "we can survive this, we can make things better." And what people vent online doesn't tend to be the happy stuff.
Bush 2004 springs to mind. Likewise, doomerism among Gen X who thought Bush '04 was a fluke.
If his second go is anything like his first, it'll be easier than the fatalists would want you to believe. As I've said elsewhere, it's the state-level policies where I see the worst impacts on citizens before 2030 (Trump wants to direct Federal attention at immigrants and will be too busy with that to multi-task at oppressing the citizens competently).
Yeah I'm an old millennial and while I'd voted against Bush, I didn't have the same level of doom I do these days. Maybe it's just being older and exhausted.
Maybe. It depends on who you are. Because redirecting so much power to the states means a lack of safety and security for a lot of people. Trump doesn't have to multitask if he gets some of his picks in to offices where they can dismantle regulations and safety, especially the long rulemaking process ones. Raw milk while our dairy farms are spreading bird flu? Sure RFK2, sounds great.
And bonus FLSA increases have been put on hold again, just like in 2016, so those are likely out for salaried employees. Not survival just quality of life.
Regarding apathy I think Russia is a good example of what happens when the population stops caring - authoritarianism flourishes. While Russia was on the path to democracy in the 90's, it never really went very far, and especially in the 00's after Putin came to power the population became mostly apathetic to the point that it was a problem for him when he invaded Ukraine. Of course, resistance is important but it is basically impossible to actually oppose him and his party. There are faux elections and in the Duma, there is only the veneer of opposition.
As we all know, Trump takes many pages out of Putin's playbook and despite his incompetency in many areas, I would 100% believe that he would not mind that the population becomes apathetic - it would benefit him and his party more than almost anything else, so I think the Republicans will start really pushing it.
I'm glad we have ~society now because over the past few weeks the first few posts on the frontpage feel like an ongoing therapy session.
Personally I do not really understand it, well over half I read is so pessimistic I don't even recognize the world they're seeing. Granted, I'm not a US citizen, but I still keep up with the news.
I think if you're not in the US it might be hard to understand.
Donald Trump is proud to be cruel, gross, and selfish.
Even if you don't think he will do all of the things he says he will do, and even if you personally are not afraid of the people he is putting in charge, there is another element that feels very ominous.
Namely, watching the people around you, including your family, neighbors, and friends start supporting a man who is shameless about being a really shitty person. These people who you loved and respected, who you trusted to babysit your kids or who babysat you when you were younger, they are putting angry and hateful signs in their yard and walking around with red hats on.
They start spewing venom anytime somebody mentions the words "liberal," "gay," "democrat," etc. It's scary no matter what, but it's even more unsettling If one of their trigger words is something that describes you personally.
Yesterday, a Trumper told me that Democrats need to step aside and say, "Yes sir, thank you sir," while the Republicans fix the country. That's pretty fucking frightening to hear from a person I know in real life.
At the school where I teach, the middle schoolers were in the cafeteria chanting, "TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP!" in unison. This kind of relationship with politics is not healthy and the fact that it's happening with middle schoolers should be concerning to anyone. Middle schoolers don't give a shit about politics when things are going well. Trust me on that, I'm with them every day.
On good days, I feel that these people are misinformed victims of propaganda campaigns. I see them as vulnerable and in need of support. I see how the Democrats failed to reach them and allowed them to be taken in by wolves and sheep's clothing.
On bad days, I see hateful stupidity and doubt that humankind will ever move on from our violent and selfish urges. I feel lonely like only 30 to 50% of people have empathy and critical thinking skills. I wonder if perhaps this nastiness existed in them all along and all they needed was permission to let it out.
I think for many Americans it's that we all had huge amounts of hope for Kamala. It had felt like there was a lot of energy and people were excited to vote for her, at least in the circle's I run in.
It felt like we had a good chance and if we could just get her in, we could stop hearing about Trump, because in the next 4 years he'd probably be dead or entirely too old to run in 2028.
Obviously, that didn't happen. I think the general feeling might have been different if the vote had been close, but it was essentially a landslide for Trump because so many people didn't bother to vote at all. This lead to lots of hopes and optimism dashed and people are still coping with what feels like a dramatic change in fortunes.
Then let it.
While I understand your view and can sympathize with it until a certain point I don't think that will benefit humanity as a whole. I feel we have an obligation to be a diverse species where all voices are heard, where everyone can have a home, feel safe, find joy and happiness, all in a sustainable manner. If democracy were to disappear I feel we are left to the devices of those with the loudest voices or the strongest armies. I cannot believe they have the best intentions for everyone in mind.
I think a lot of pro-democracy people are still feeling defeated right now, I know I am in some ways. I hope after some rest and encouragement, we gather our bearings and continue the cause.
There's the phrase "because if you don't laugh, you'll cry," maybe some of us have decided this time it's okay to cry. Sometimes things straight up aren't okay, and it's just not funny anymore. I offered to watch some Jon Stewart with my friend who felt defeated after the election results, because I recall Jon had a segment before the election that pointed out that no matter who wins, we've still got a lot of work to do (and that Trump winning isn't gonna be the end of it all). But my friend, like the Reddit poster, just wasn't feeling it anymore. And that's okay.
If people want to feel defeatist, that's okay. The ones who don't can find each other and start building again. And hopefully more can join in once they feel better.
I don't know if I like anything in this post beyond the first sentence. All I know is that my wife and I have done the same thing. We would watch the previous night's late night TV in the morning with coffee before I go to work and now we just don't want to. I suppose this is the downside to late night being so much more focused on politics than they used to be.
Things are complicated right? One could argue that in order to stay relevant (and secure funding) these shows have to mimic each other with topics that drive engagement. I hope you and your wife can process all of this in due time and find some solace in that not everything is lost.
Last night @smoontjes told me about a reddit post they had read about what the point is in comedy shows if they don't bring the societal change they preach. They asked my take on this and after reading the post and seeing how it blew up something didn't sit right with me.As a disclaimer I don't want to raise pitchforks, far from it. This is purely meant as an analysis of what was posted. This is in no way meant as defamatory.> I’ve been watching John Oliver, Daily Show and some nightly talk shows for years and decades, but after this election I just can’t bring myself to do it anymore, for a few reasons.So far so good, one can change what they like and decide not to watch something anymore.> Part of the show is telling us about whatever scandals and schemes politicians are involved in, and now I think “who cares, nothing’s gonna happen to them and there is nothing they could ever say or do that would make their followers abandon them.” so it’s pointless to watch because it’s just gonna be some mad/sad added to my day.This is where it becomes a little iffy to me. It feels like they blame their audience for being unable to move on and just accept whatever may come. They question why they would want that in their lives. The latter part makes sense, don't watch something if it doesn't bring you something positive.> Another part of the show is telling us about whatever new policies they enact that will be bad for us, and now I think “uh, yeah, no shit, we know, that’s why we didn’t vote for them and told people not to vote for them.”, so it’s pointless to watch because it’s just gonna be some mad/sad added to my day.Essentially a repeat from the section before it.> And the biggest part of the show is that all of the comedy is based around “we’re so smart, they’re so dumb, we’re so normal, they’re so weird, we’re good and they’re bad.” and now I think “They just won the election by both electoral and popular vote and improved in almost every demographic since 2020, which means all of your little jokes meant nothing and in the end they absolutely fucking owned you and got the last laugh.”They really try to drive their point home and this is where it derails for me completely. Now they're adding to the polarization and blaming it on the comedy shows and essentially showing their true colors. It appears they claim victory from their point of view (and reveal who they voted for essentially.) And the entire post just feels like questioning the entire point of having these comedy shows in the first place. That these shows essentially only exist to appease the other voters and that it serves no purpose now that "they" have lost.EDIT: I've come to the conclusion thanks to insight from others that I've interpreted the initial post in the wrong way. I'd like to apologize for any confusion this may have caused.
I don’t read it as blaming comedy shows, and I certainly don’t read it as being some kind of secret Republican post. I think that’s a super weird take, and I’m having trouble understanding how you got there.
They’re clearly just really upset with the election outcome.
Maybe you're right. Thinking about it again and reading it it's odd how my mind sometimes just instantly hops to certain conclusion. I'll take the post down in roughly 24hours.
I remember when the Boston Bruins got knocked out of the first round of the playoffs after setting the single season points record, I felt the same way. I had watched nearly every regular season game, and was invested so much in all of our players. But after the loss, it wasn't just staying away from hockey games - I had to avoid any mention of sports. Even playing sports video games was distressing to me, the stink of loss. So yeah, of course you're unplugging, you're a sore loser like me.
Now for a more charitable interpretation. I happened to check Reddit the day before the election. I remember what the top post was: an "empty Trump rally in North Carolina". At some point, you just get sick of being played with. Everyone following the race knew it was 50 / 50 at best for Harris. Much like the current link post's discussion of John Oliver, there's a whole industry toying with your political emotions. As another example, consider all the legal podcasts, YouTubes, etc telling us Trump was one step away from prison. This is a bit disjoint, but it's all to say I think people want something more tangible and productive in politics, and are reassessing what they thought it meant to be engaged. Real engagement would have delivered tangible wins, even small ones.