In this particular case? Maybe. But the line gets drawn somewhere, and I hope it's before the doorknockers start patrols. Pretty sure I'll be having cake the day Matt Gatze drops dead, regardless...
In this particular case? Maybe. But the line gets drawn somewhere, and I hope it's before the doorknockers start patrols.
Pretty sure I'll be having cake the day Matt Gatze drops dead, regardless of how that happens.
I worry about harassment of government officials happening more often. Democrats get harassed too. Without getting into what started it, it would be bad for it to become normal. It's not a good...
I worry about harassment of government officials happening more often. Democrats get harassed too. Without getting into what started it, it would be bad for it to become normal. It's not a good trend.
I don't know what sort of lines can be drawn. Hopefully law enforcement will have some effect?
That'd be great. But what I see is the natural progression of what happens when the legigislature and the courts care more about ideology than practicality, and thus we have a swath of...
That'd be great. But what I see is the natural progression of what happens when the legigislature and the courts care more about ideology than practicality, and thus we have a swath of appointments specifically tasked with dismantling most of the government.
Will you and those like you apologize to those that die if you get your wish? Will you be eating cake if he’s taken out in a bomb blast? What about a mass shooting? What about the retaliatory...
Will you and those like you apologize to those that die if you get your wish?
Will you be eating cake if he’s taken out in a bomb blast? What about a mass shooting? What about the retaliatory violence that follows?
There’s lots and lots of history of all sorts of political violence, and almost none of it is “And then they died and everything got better”. Often it’s the start of a very long period of very violent actions leading to the deaths of at last thousands, and then, usually after a few of the batards that started it and thousands more who would have given anything to not be involved are dead, it might get better.
Political violence of this nature is not “winning”. It’s watching the wheels fall off. I don’t give much of a damn if Matt has a stroke and drops dead and may not even feel that bad for the people who did love him and have to deal with the consequences, but the moment people are dying from political violence EVERYONE should be damn worried.
If you’re suggesting that we’re in the verge of patrol’s then I hope you realize Matt going out in a fireball is only accelerating that path.
I know we're on the verge of patrols. They've told us as much. A literal white supremacist is heading up the deportation effort. It's only a question of who they're rounding up first, and in what...
I know we're on the verge of patrols. They've told us as much. A literal white supremacist is heading up the deportation effort. It's only a question of who they're rounding up first, and in what order. Immigrants of all flavors are likely at the forefront, but gays and Jews aren't far behind.
EVERYONE should be damn worried.
We are. The problem is that there are idiots like my brother welcoming the patrols with open arms.
The "no political violence" ship sailed on Jan 6th. The fact that nothing tangible came in the wake over the course of 4 years shows that we're already a failed state.
Frankly, if political violence is what it takes so my grandkids don't need to do monthly active shooter drills the way my kids do, I'm all for it. Because what's been happening "peacefully" for the last 20 obviously hasn't been working.
Peaceful resolution of conflict can only occur if both sides are coming to the table in good faith.
As of right now, I mostly see what's happening as them getting a taste of their own medicine....see 'your body, my choice'.
I'm seriously conflicted. I feel like I'm experiencing cognitive dissonance, but I'm not, it's more that I'm seeing a complex situation in which two things which oppose each other are true at the...
Frankly, if political violence is what it takes so my grandkids don't need to do monthly active shooter drills the way my kids do, I'm all for it.
I'm seriously conflicted. I feel like I'm experiencing cognitive dissonance, but I'm not, it's more that I'm seeing a complex situation in which two things which oppose each other are true at the same time.
Political violence leads to a downward death spiral, or at least an escalation of violence-begets-violence in a society. Civil war is has gone from a fictional notion to a legitimate fear. At the same time, if one faction is willing to threaten, break the law, use intimidation and even kill while the other faction sticks to the moral high ground and does not 'do unto others'... if the violent faction feels no compunction or shame over their actions, if they are not going to self-limit, then... I guess just look to the historical imagery of Tienanmen Square. Tanks crushing student protesters into meat paste to obscure the number of casualties, then re-writing history under penalty of whatever it takes to make people fear to even mention the location or the date of June 4th.
As to this:
It's only a question of who they're rounding up first, and in what order. Immigrants of all flavors are likely at the forefront, but gays and Jews aren't far behind.
It isn't like we don't have a great big glaring historical precedent.
First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
-Pastor Martin Niemöller, a eulogy of past silences, Germany, 1946.
Americans have this romantic idea of violent revolutions because we had one of the few successful ones but the vast majority just lead to just endless cycles of violence and death until a...
Frankly, if political violence is what it takes so my grandkids don't need to do monthly active shooter drills the way my kids do, I'm all for it. Because what's been happening "peacefully" for the last 20 obviously hasn't been working.
Americans have this romantic idea of violent revolutions because we had one of the few successful ones but the vast majority just lead to just endless cycles of violence and death until a strongman steps in to stop the chaos. Nine times out of 10 you don’t end up with a nice liberal democracy, you end up with something worse than what you started with.
Political violence will not give your grandkids peace.
From the article: ... ... I'd guess that many police are pretty skeptical about swatting by now? But besides the danger to its targets, this is effectively a denial of service attack on law...
From the article:
Several of Donald Trump’s cabinet nominees and picks for his White House team have been targeted by bomb threats.
The FBI said it was aware of "numerous bomb threats" as well as "swatting incidents", in which hoax calls are made to attract a police response to the target's home.
Threats were made against Trump's choices to lead the departments of Housing, Agriculture and Labor, as well as his pick for US ambassador to the United Nations.
Police are investigating the incidents, which happened on Tuesday night and Wednesday morning.
...
None of those targeted this week were protected by the US Secret Service, according to media reports.
...
Similar hoax tactics have been recently used against other high-profile political figures, including against the judges and prosecutors who oversaw the criminal cases against Trump.
Last year, US politicians around the country were swatted over Christmas. Most were Republican, but some Democrats were targeted as well.
I'd guess that many police are pretty skeptical about swatting by now? But besides the danger to its targets, this is effectively a denial of service attack on law enforcement.
Trump heavily invested in political violence. He's getting returns on his investment. Which sucks, because it is possible this will end up as a 'new normal'.
Trump heavily invested in political violence. He's getting returns on his investment.
Which sucks, because it is possible this will end up as a 'new normal'.
Political violence is not new, but I 100% agree that each additional instance sucks for the reason you mentioned: violence normalizes violence. Somewhere I read a really good analogy of how our...
Political violence is not new, but I 100% agree that each additional instance sucks for the reason you mentioned: violence normalizes violence.
Somewhere I read a really good analogy of how our minds go wrong with this. When we think of violence, we're wired to think of good versus evil, knights slaying dragons, stuff like that. When a dragon kills one of the townsfolk, that's because the dragon is evil. And when a knight kills one of the dragons, well, the dragon had it coming. Killing the dragon solves the problem.
But in reality, violence is less like a dragon and more like Godzilla. It's not glamorous. Every day he shows up and tramples several city blocks. Some days he tramples more, some days less. Sometimes a different giant monster shows up and fights Godzilla, and even more of the city gets destroyed than usual. Your life is now all about surviving between monster attacks. That's the new normal.
And the problem is whenever people commit violence, they think they're killing an evil dragon, when they're actually waking Godzilla.
I do love your analogy, however history shows time and again that if only one side perpetuates the violence, they win. I liken it more like fire. You can choose to not fight the fire, but then...
I do love your analogy, however history shows time and again that if only one side perpetuates the violence, they win.
I liken it more like fire. You can choose to not fight the fire, but then you're at the mercy of it.
I fear Alex Garland's Civil War from this year will become increasingly prophetical.. Are there much if any instances in history where political violence did not beget more violence?
I fear Alex Garland's Civil War from this year will become increasingly prophetical..
Are there much if any instances in history where political violence did not beget more violence?
It’s indefensible no matter who the target is — I would like to think that goes without saying but I am seeing a lot of victim blaming.
In this particular case? Maybe. But the line gets drawn somewhere, and I hope it's before the doorknockers start patrols.
Pretty sure I'll be having cake the day Matt Gatze drops dead, regardless of how that happens.
I worry about harassment of government officials happening more often. Democrats get harassed too. Without getting into what started it, it would be bad for it to become normal. It's not a good trend.
I don't know what sort of lines can be drawn. Hopefully law enforcement will have some effect?
That'd be great. But what I see is the natural progression of what happens when the legigislature and the courts care more about ideology than practicality, and thus we have a swath of appointments specifically tasked with dismantling most of the government.
Will you and those like you apologize to those that die if you get your wish?
Will you be eating cake if he’s taken out in a bomb blast? What about a mass shooting? What about the retaliatory violence that follows?
There’s lots and lots of history of all sorts of political violence, and almost none of it is “And then they died and everything got better”. Often it’s the start of a very long period of very violent actions leading to the deaths of at last thousands, and then, usually after a few of the batards that started it and thousands more who would have given anything to not be involved are dead, it might get better.
Political violence of this nature is not “winning”. It’s watching the wheels fall off. I don’t give much of a damn if Matt has a stroke and drops dead and may not even feel that bad for the people who did love him and have to deal with the consequences, but the moment people are dying from political violence EVERYONE should be damn worried.
If you’re suggesting that we’re in the verge of patrol’s then I hope you realize Matt going out in a fireball is only accelerating that path.
I know we're on the verge of patrols. They've told us as much. A literal white supremacist is heading up the deportation effort. It's only a question of who they're rounding up first, and in what order. Immigrants of all flavors are likely at the forefront, but gays and Jews aren't far behind.
We are. The problem is that there are idiots like my brother welcoming the patrols with open arms.
The "no political violence" ship sailed on Jan 6th. The fact that nothing tangible came in the wake over the course of 4 years shows that we're already a failed state.
Frankly, if political violence is what it takes so my grandkids don't need to do monthly active shooter drills the way my kids do, I'm all for it. Because what's been happening "peacefully" for the last 20 obviously hasn't been working.
Peaceful resolution of conflict can only occur if both sides are coming to the table in good faith.
As of right now, I mostly see what's happening as them getting a taste of their own medicine....see 'your body, my choice'.
I'm seriously conflicted. I feel like I'm experiencing cognitive dissonance, but I'm not, it's more that I'm seeing a complex situation in which two things which oppose each other are true at the same time.
Political violence leads to a downward death spiral, or at least an escalation of violence-begets-violence in a society. Civil war is has gone from a fictional notion to a legitimate fear. At the same time, if one faction is willing to threaten, break the law, use intimidation and even kill while the other faction sticks to the moral high ground and does not 'do unto others'... if the violent faction feels no compunction or shame over their actions, if they are not going to self-limit, then... I guess just look to the historical imagery of Tienanmen Square. Tanks crushing student protesters into meat paste to obscure the number of casualties, then re-writing history under penalty of whatever it takes to make people fear to even mention the location or the date of June 4th.
As to this:
It isn't like we don't have a great big glaring historical precedent.
First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
-Pastor Martin Niemöller, a eulogy of past silences, Germany, 1946.
Americans have this romantic idea of violent revolutions because we had one of the few successful ones but the vast majority just lead to just endless cycles of violence and death until a strongman steps in to stop the chaos. Nine times out of 10 you don’t end up with a nice liberal democracy, you end up with something worse than what you started with.
Political violence will not give your grandkids peace.
You're still in a spiral of violence if your side just sits there and lets the other side do violence to you.
From the article:
...
...
I'd guess that many police are pretty skeptical about swatting by now? But besides the danger to its targets, this is effectively a denial of service attack on law enforcement.
Trump heavily invested in political violence. He's getting returns on his investment.
Which sucks, because it is possible this will end up as a 'new normal'.
Political violence is not new, but I 100% agree that each additional instance sucks for the reason you mentioned: violence normalizes violence.
Somewhere I read a really good analogy of how our minds go wrong with this. When we think of violence, we're wired to think of good versus evil, knights slaying dragons, stuff like that. When a dragon kills one of the townsfolk, that's because the dragon is evil. And when a knight kills one of the dragons, well, the dragon had it coming. Killing the dragon solves the problem.
But in reality, violence is less like a dragon and more like Godzilla. It's not glamorous. Every day he shows up and tramples several city blocks. Some days he tramples more, some days less. Sometimes a different giant monster shows up and fights Godzilla, and even more of the city gets destroyed than usual. Your life is now all about surviving between monster attacks. That's the new normal.
And the problem is whenever people commit violence, they think they're killing an evil dragon, when they're actually waking Godzilla.
I do love your analogy, however history shows time and again that if only one side perpetuates the violence, they win.
I liken it more like fire. You can choose to not fight the fire, but then you're at the mercy of it.
Trumpites: "We're gonna sic the military on Democrats!"
Also Trumpites: "Why are you threatening me?"
This is not the way. It's just going to provide justification for their next round of crackdowns.
I fear Alex Garland's Civil War from this year will become increasingly prophetical..
Are there much if any instances in history where political violence did not beget more violence?