Completely insane. While I'm happy that Pierre isn't a sure win in the same way that he was, I feel like the Liberals (like the Democrats and our NDP) needed their own humbling vision quest to...
Completely insane. While I'm happy that Pierre isn't a sure win in the same way that he was, I feel like the Liberals (like the Democrats and our NDP) needed their own humbling vision quest to discover who they are, and who they represent. At this rate, we're just all just shuttling toward a Mark Carney future.
I think that is a little overblown. I really like Mike Carney, enough that I joined a political party for the first time in my 41 years to vote for him in the leadership race. I think the best we...
I think that is a little overblown. I really like Mike Carney, enough that I joined a political party for the first time in my 41 years to vote for him in the leadership race.
I think the best we can hope for is a Conservative minority. They raise too much money and have too much American and Russian support to actually lose.
I'm happy to be wrong, but I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.
It’s possibly a benefit IMO. I get the sense that he will consult with and largely defer to experts. Intelligent, educated, and thoughtful is how I would describe him.
It’s possibly a benefit IMO. I get the sense that he will consult with and largely defer to experts. Intelligent, educated, and thoughtful is how I would describe him.
Untested, and, given the short amount of time til Parliament resumes, very little time for anyone to try and figure out what he'd be like as a party leader. I dont doubt he's an intelligent man,...
Untested, and, given the short amount of time til Parliament resumes, very little time for anyone to try and figure out what he'd be like as a party leader. I dont doubt he's an intelligent man, but Ive heard the adage that the primary job of a party leader is to keep the party together, presumably because infighting will kill a party's power faster than any external force. I have no clue how he'd fare in that department.
Yeah, this echoes what I've heard as well. Canadians can't get to know him and he's not a tested people manager in the political realm. Stephane Dion was a capable leader too, but as I remember,...
Yeah, this echoes what I've heard as well. Canadians can't get to know him and he's not a tested people manager in the political realm. Stephane Dion was a capable leader too, but as I remember, he was cut from the same cloth.
That doesn't make sense. Are you suggesting that if the Conservatives end up a minority government the Liberals or NDP would immediately force a new election?
That doesn't make sense. Are you suggesting that if the Conservatives end up a minority government the Liberals or NDP would immediately force a new election?
I don't get what you're saying. If the conservatives get more votes than the other two parties they're a majority and they can do whatever they want. The other parties don't have enough votes to...
I don't get what you're saying. If the conservatives get more votes than the other two parties they're a majority and they can do whatever they want. The other parties don't have enough votes to counter them. If they get the most votes, but less than the others combined, they form a minority, allowing coalitions to prop up Carney. That's what we're all hoping for at this point.
It’s not a conservative minority government though, which is what I’m saying. It will be a liberal minority government in that case, with a conservative opposition.
It’s not a conservative minority government though, which is what I’m saying. It will be a liberal minority government in that case, with a conservative opposition.
388 polls currently show: CPC: 205 LPC: 84 BQ: 40 NDP: 12 GC: 2 No one is expecting anything other than a conservative win at this point. We're just hoping it's close enough to be a minority. Even...
388 polls currently show:
CPC: 205
LPC: 84
BQ: 40
NDP: 12
GC: 2
No one is expecting anything other than a conservative win at this point. We're just hoping it's close enough to be a minority. Even if all the other parties formed a coalition (which is unlikely), it'd still be a conservative majority at this point. The NDP hate the Cons but they've also taken a lot of flak for propping up the LPC in recent years, so it's not even certain they would form a coalition at this point.
What they're trying to say is that there will be no 'conservative minority government'; i.e. a parliament controlled by a conservative plurality. If the Conservatives don't get a majority of the...
What they're trying to say is that there will be no 'conservative minority government'; i.e. a parliament controlled by a conservative plurality. If the Conservatives don't get a majority of the votes I believe the GG will ask the previous governing party to form government first -- it's likely it would be the Liberals governing with an NDP supply agreement in such a case.
I'm sorry, I may be ignorant here, but is there any precedent for this? The closest I can think of is The 2008-2009 Parliamentary Dispute where the Liberals and NDP wanted to form a coalition...
If the Conservatives don't get a majority of the votes I believe the GG will ask the previous governing party to form government first
I'm sorry, I may be ignorant here, but is there any precedent for this? The closest I can think of is The 2008-2009 Parliamentary Dispute where the Liberals and NDP wanted to form a coalition during a snap election called by Harper. The GG decided to prorogue, and by the time parliament resumed the Liberals had soured on the deal, leading to another Harper government. From brief research I believe there's only been one coalition of federal parties in Canadian history.
I’m aware of this case where the Conservatives won a plurality but still didn’t form government. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1925_Canadian_federal_election# Minority governments are also...
I’m aware of this case where the Conservatives won a plurality but still didn’t form government.
Minority governments are also common federally, although typically it’s a party with a plurality. For example, obviously, the government at this exact moment is a minority government.
It’s also somewhat common at the provincial level for parties losing the plurality to still form government with the support of other minorities.
Not exactly. Harper asked to prorogue to prevent a non-confidence vote after which the GG could have asked parliament to form an alternative government. I believe that would have been a true...
The GG decided to prorogue,
Not exactly. Harper asked to prorogue to prevent a non-confidence vote after which the GG could have asked parliament to form an alternative government. I believe that would have been a true coalition with a multi-party cabinet but I can't recall exactly.
I should pay more attention to this, since I'm giving serious thought (to the extent of paying a retainer to an immigration law firm) to applying for Canadian citizenship... Since I had a Canadian...
I should pay more attention to this, since I'm giving serious thought (to the extent of paying a retainer to an immigration law firm) to applying for Canadian citizenship...
Since I had a Canadian parent, I know that Canada has some of the same party oligopoly issues the U.S. faces, as well as the identitarian issues you might expect from a demographically small country (with its own separatist minority) adjoining an overwhelming economic and military power. My understanding is that the Trudeau-led Liberals were more or less social-democratic with a helping of neoliberal internationalism. Like the U.S., that translated into obliviousness to cost-of-living and housing issues. Like the U.S., the notion of "freedom" evolved differently in the Western resource-intensive provinces versus the coasts and metros. Canadian "Conservatives" have a similar mix of religious traditionalists and free-marketers.
It seems to me that NDP/Greens/Liberals could make common cause against the Trump-esque Conservative rhetoric, on economic, environmental, and human rights grounds. How likely is this in reality?
It's really hard to say what is going to happen after during the next federal election. 338Canada show a number of polls and over the last few weeks, the shift has been absolutely wild and we have...
It's really hard to say what is going to happen after during the next federal election. 338Canada show a number of polls and over the last few weeks, the shift has been absolutely wild and we have quite a wait.
Greens will likely play ball with just about anyone - they lack the the importance to do much else - and the NDP and Liberals have a long history of working together in a dysfunctional way, and then stopping when it seems obvious to everyone else that they shouldn't. The Bloq is also a big question mark in there.
So... it could happen. But there are a lot of things between here and there that have to get sorted first, most importantly who is going to take over for Trudeau. Poilievre seems to lack the ability to say positive things about Canada which is really riling people up against him right now.
tl;dr it's a shitshow, and the title of this article is right on - all bets are off. What you asked really could happen. Or it could be a Conservative majority. Or something else. The polls are crazy right now.
Just to add onto this: Polls basically work by consistently calling people who ought to be representable, and then more or less measuring how that has worked with past elections, basically...
It's really hard to say what is going to happen after during the next federal election. 338Canada show a number of polls and over the last few weeks, the shift has been absolutely wild and we have quite a wait.
Just to add onto this: Polls basically work by consistently calling people who ought to be representable, and then more or less measuring how that has worked with past elections, basically calibrating. With populists polls have already been struggling here in the Netherlands. Now, I can't claim to know much about Canadian politics - but when I think about what the current situation means with polling, it's well, no shit the polls are all over the place. The politics of the country is now in an insane place so the polls can't really calibrate.
No matter what though, good luck. I can't imagine being in your position at this moment.
Its been a wild ride in Canada for the last several weeks. Up until Trudeau decided to step down, a Conservative majority was solidly in the bag according to every poll in existence. But then...
Its been a wild ride in Canada for the last several weeks. Up until Trudeau decided to step down, a Conservative majority was solidly in the bag according to every poll in existence. But then Trudeau stepped down, and the Liberal leadership race began and the Liberals got a noticeable uptick in support, largely because they knew they at least wouldn't be decimated with Trudeau as leader. But then along comes Donald Trump (I honestly have a hard time not using less complimentary terms) and everyone is off balance, the messages have changed and we're all in a bit of shock.
We didn't expect him to say the kinds of things he's been saying. We didn't expect our longest, most loyal friend and trading partner to not only shove a knife into our gut, but to massively insult every Canadian by saying he wants us to be the 51st state. I don't know a single Canadian who doesn't hate that idea. But I DO believe him when he says he wants to take us over with economic warfare.
So the playing field has changed a LOT in a very short time. What I find surprising is that some people think that a two week shift in the narrative is somehow going to erase the last 9 years of governance and our memories of a lot of things that Canadians found not just troublesome, but offensive about our own government. Mark Carney is indeed a smart man and a good economic leader by all accounts, but that does nothing to erase the fact that his party was the one that locked down Canadian;s bank accounts and illegally used the most powerful legislation we have to force an end to a grassroots protest. His party spent years focusing on climate issues and a punitive carbon tax when it was very clear that housing and inflation costs were top of mind for most of us. And his party spent billions of dollars to drive Canada into the deepest debt its ever seen while double speaking and telling us our GDP was doing fine. His party also far overcompensated with loose immigration standards and flooded the country with "temporary" foreign workers and international students who didnt even attend classes and now want to claim asylum rather than go back home.
So, yes, the issues and the narrative has changed. But the Liberals are still the Liberals and they've had 9 years to turn this ship around. Mark Carney will likely get the nod to lead them, but its still highly doubtful that he'll form the next government. We might be much more unsettled than we were a few weeks ago, but I dont believe thoughtful voters change their voting intentions THAT easily - but dear god, the bots and astroturfers suddenly flooding r*ddit forums would have you believe otherwise.
Well, except for the part where there was no physical violence from the Ottawa protesters, no vandalism, and the convoy was actually invited to park on the streets by Parliament by the police, who...
Well, except for the part where there was no physical violence from the Ottawa protesters, no vandalism, and the convoy was actually invited to park on the streets by Parliament by the police, who had been in contact with the organizers and largely supported their protest. Our members of Parliament walked freely through their midst and enjoyed conversations with them as the protesters hot tubbed, played hockey, had bouncy castles for their kids, held dance parties at the live stage, sang the national anthem and gave out free food to anyone who wanted it, including Ottawa's homeless and yes, honked their horns loudly. Which is EXACTLY the same as an out of control riotous mob storming the Capital, pushing down barriers, forcing back police and flooding into into private offices and the House of Representatives causing legislators to flee in fear to secure shelter, while Capitol police pushed furniture against the chamber doors and brandished their weapons as the protesters attempted to smash them down, resulting in the shooting death of one protester as they tried to physically overthrow the government. The only people who got hurt in Ottawa were protesters and even when run down by a horse or thrown down to be arrested or shot with tear gas canisters, they encouraged each other to hold the line and not resort to violence. Which they didn't.
The similarities are that they both took place at the heart of government and they both had large crowds. But the devil is in the details and the Canadian protest was very... Canadian.
That sounds positively delightful! I get your point that it wasn't like the Jan 6 riots, but that is a very rosy picture of the convoy. Talk to some of the Ottawa locals and see their side of the...
the organizers and largely supported their protest. Our members of Parliament walked freely through their midst and enjoyed conversations with them as the protesters hot tubbed, played hockey, had bouncy castles for their kids, held dance parties at the live stage, sang the national anthem and gave out free food to anyone who wanted it, including Ottawa's homeless
That sounds positively delightful! I get your point that it wasn't like the Jan 6 riots, but that is a very rosy picture of the convoy. Talk to some of the Ottawa locals and see their side of the story. You also omitted details about US donation influence (election interference), economic impact to supply lines, swastikas on flags, dancing on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, assault and racial slurs of local businesses, blocking ambulance routes, 100 decibel noise pollution.... and of course, Covid 19 spiked. Yes, there were some decent protesters there, but there were also plenty of racist bigots out there looking for trouble.
I didnt start out to write an essay but once I got rolling I wanted to address the points you brought up, which are often given by those who opposed the Freedom Convoy. So I hope you'll bear with...
I didnt start out to write an essay but once I got rolling I wanted to address the points you brought up, which are often given by those who opposed the Freedom Convoy. So I hope you'll bear with my TedTalk.
My primary point was to refute the idea that Jan 6 and the Freedom Convoy protest were similar, other than being large protests at the seat of power. Not only was there no physical violence, vandalism or deaths from the convoy protesters, Police Chief Peter Sloly said there was a 60% drop in petty crime in Centretown during the protest. That's not the characteristic of a riotous mob.
The Freedom Convoy protest was indeed a powerful protest and a landmark event in Canada's history, but it was largely mischaracterized by almost all of the mainstream media - and obviously thats where most people get their information. My sources however were not the mainstream media. a) I had direct contact with friends who attended the protest, b) I have spoken at length to one of the primary organizers, c) I watched many days of livestreaming during the protest (which has been archived at convoylive.ca), d) I watched the entire 6 weeks of Public Order Emergency Commission live, e) I have closely followed the legal proceedings of the main organizers' trial, e) I have closely followed the work of The Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms (JCCF) and the Canadian Constitution Foundation (CCF) lawyers in proving that the Emergencies Act was used illegally to shut down the protest and who also have been instrumental in getting hundreds of covid restriction charges and protest charges dropped and fired workers reinstated.
All that to say, this matters to me and I have dived into the details to get facts as straight from the horses mouth as possible.
Were some people in Ottawa annoyed and angry at the protesters? Yes, indeed some were. Thats true. Especially those living on or near Wellington Street in Centretown.
But many Ottawans supported the protesters. Some brought food and gave them cash to keep them going. The most obvious sign of public support was when the police tried to ban the semi trucks from getting fuel and dozens of citizens showed up with fuel cans to refill their tanks.
Some citizens, notably a black Ottawa businessman, showed up to say on camera he came down to see it for himself and concluded that this protest isn't the way its being portrayed in the news. 'We've had no problems here and the people are all friendly.' Michelle Ferreri, MP for Peterborough/Kawartha who has an apartment within walking distance of Parliament, made a livestream while she walked home, alone at night, stopping to chat with protesters along the way. Not only were they friendly, she met Quebecers partying with Albertans and it was obviously safe for a single woman to be out there, despite the media portrayal.
As for the guy with the swastika flag, after looking at the totality of circumstances, I can only conclude he was more than likely a plant. His face was covered - almost everyone was unmasked, and protesting mask mandates, so why cover his if he believed he would be supported? He walked into the crowd and the protesters around him were not impressed. There is video of protesters telling him to move on and he got harassed into leaving. But he also came with a photographer with a professional camera, which is pretty suspect for a single protester with an objectionable flag. When he was pushed to leave the crowd he walked up the steps to the Fairmont hotel and disappeared inside. That was the hotel being used by the out of town police, not the protesters, also very odd. There were many upset protesters who wanted to identify him even offering a cash reward to anyone who could find out who he was, but he disappeared and he and his flag were not seen again.
Im not saying there couldn't be a nazi wingnut in the crowd, but the fact that there were thousands of protesters there jubilantly protesting with their faces uncovered and one suspicious anonymous guy with his face hidden is carrying a nazi flag - and that's the thing the media grabbed onto to portray the crowd as nazi sympathizers is just well... highly prejudicial and inaccurate.
As for the disruption to supply lines, if you read Canada's State of Trade report for 2023 you would see that while the press was trying to portray the stall of trucks coming over the border as Canada "losing millions of dollars a day" in fact, overall trade rebounded quickly after the protest and overall trade was not impacted. While the Ambassador Bridge was blocked, there were two other crossings that were open within a short drive, so suppliers could reroute their shipments. Trade was disrupted, yes. But damaged? No. If you listened to the media reports at the time, the protest was quickly killing Canada's economy. It just didn't.
It's also noteworthy that the convoy organizers never asked anyone to go block the border crossings, some protesters took that into their own hands and while the gov partially used the blockings to justify using the Emergencies Act, they were in fact cleared before the EA was enacted on Feb. 14.
The "US influence" on donations, also portrayed as the 'dark international money' was entirely fabricated. Someone hacked the gofundme database (reporting based on an illegal hack is apparently not a problem for the media if it fits an agenda) and wrongly made the assertion that much or most of the protest donations were coming from the US and even "Russia". The CBC jumped on that assertion and CBC's Nil Koksal conjectured openly in an interview about Russia's interference with no evidence to back it. It was just plain false. In subsequent investigation, GoFundMe executive Juan Benitez stated that 86% of the donors to the original Freedom Convoy campaign were Canadian, and 88% of the donated funds came from Canadian sources. Its not unreasonable that much of the remaining 12% came from Canadians living in other countries and a small amount from sympathizers who weren't Canadian. But you didnt see that stated in the press. They went with the hackers narrative because that supported the media agenda that this wasn't a grassroots Canadian protest, which it was.
Same with the 'dancing on the tomb of the unknown soldier' incident. It was one person and the media used that to portray the entire protest as disrespectful of our military. The dancer wasn't even officially linked to the Freedom Convoy, and leaders of the convoy themselves publicly condemned the act. Ottawa police later identified the person involved and she issued a public apology. The press coverage largely ignored the contingent of Canadian veterans who were there in support of the protest and who put up a fence barrier around the monument after that and stood guard around it to make sure there would not be another incident. One person did something disrespectful but the press leaped on it to blackball thousands of people who were also upset at her.
The media also said two protesters tried to burn down an apartment building. There were indeed two arsonists who started a fire in a hallway and locked the exit doors. After their arrest and investigation, it turned out they had nothing to do with the protest as confirmed by the police. But that didnt stop the media from immediately and falsely associating them with the protest.
There were some people who got called names yes, on both sides. Is that shocking at a protest? While the name calling got front page news, the press never mentioned the protesters who got eggs thrown at them from buildings or much worse, a group who sneaked into the protest at night and punctured several semi truck tires, causing thousands of dollars in damage. But it was some name calling that got press, not actual vandalism against the protesters. Just like the flag incident and dancing incident, it was annoying that the media focus was on denigrating thousands of people's protest because a small minority were troublesome while more serious issues got ignored. Imagine the outcry if the protesters were the ones throwing eggs and puncturing the tires of police cars.
The main irritant was the honking of truck horns and even that mostly ended after the court injunction. It still happened in bursts. But that's what a protest is. Its supposed to be disruptive and attention grabbing. I do feel for the people who live on or near Wellington St. but to say that the protest should not have happened or gone on so long because it mostly disrupted the lives of some people in a small area near our center of power, while benefiting millions of others around the world seems a bit... short sighted. There was some pain but there was a much greater good. There were thousands if not millions of people who were in despair, some even telling the organizers they were suicidal, until the Freedom Convoy came along and restored their hope. There's a reason that thousands of people lined the highways in absolutely frigid conditions to cheer them on.
A protest is also supposed to make a point and it most definitely did. Once again, our press completely downplayed it, but there were sympathetic Freedom Convoy type protests that started all over the world in response and solidarity with Canada's protest. For once in our life, Canada was at the forefront of an international movement: The US had the People's Convoy that traversed the country in early 2022. In France, there was the "Convoi de la Liberté". In Belgium, truckers and other groups demonstrated in Brussels. In the Netherlands, Dutch truck drivers organized a convoy. Australia had truckers and other citizens taking to the streets, mostly in Canberra. In New Zealand, there was the "Convoy for Freedom". Italy had smaller but similar protests. Germany had a convoy movement with people driving in cars and trucks to show their opposition to government policies. And in many of those protests around the world, people flew Canadian flags because our protest is what inspired them.
All in all, there were millions of citizens worldwide who agreed that they were done with the lockdowns, done with the restrictions, done with the uselessness of things like ArriveCan, done with government overreach and wanted it to end. And it did, starting right after our Freedom Convoy (which again the press will tell you, was just 'coincidence') Do I think some Ottawa citizens had to put up with some pain for almost a month? Yes. Was it worth it? For the sake of the rest of the world and the sake of ending the overreaching restrictions on millions, absolutely.
On a personal note, my wife and I and all our adult children and grandchildren were covid-19 vaccinated. We wore masks in public. Our Christmas gathering was by Zoom. Two of my kids are Canadian physicians - We're not knuckle dragging buffoons or 'racists and misogynists' and we believed we were safer using vaccines and restrictions. However, I DO believe the restrictions had gone too far, had gone on too long and the government overreach was no longer justified and it was time to end it. So obviously yes, I supported the Freedom Convoy protest to end the covid restrictions and give back the public's freedom. I also strongly believe the gov acted improperly and illegally, and the courts have borne that out.
There's a lot of "just one guy" kind of dismissal in there, yet just one guy handing out food is of note? I also find it strange that the "mainstream media" seems to be labelled as untrustworthy,...
There's a lot of "just one guy" kind of dismissal in there, yet just one guy handing out food is of note? I also find it strange that the "mainstream media" seems to be labelled as untrustworthy, whereas your sources seems to have come from within or closely connected to the convoy. That doesn't seem like it will give you balanced reporting. The CBC is progressive on many social issues, but it's not some leftist propaganda empire doing the government's bidding. It is actually fairly neutral on political matters. Besides that, Canadian media is largely owned by private companies like PostMedia, and they are certainly not leftist. So why would hundreds of journalists all be out to mischaracterize the convoy?
I'd say those restrictions were worth it based on the fact they probably saved the lives of thousands, maybe tens of thousands. The government's response was not perfect but it was pretty darn good for an unprecedented pandemic where every country was trying to figure things out on the fly.
At no point did I ever feel like my freedoms were so impinged that I felt depressed or suicidal. I think those that lost their jobs have a more legitimate beef, and this is where I think the government did get it wrong. I think they were right to insist on vaccinations for those in front-line healthcare, but I don't think they should have lost their jobs. They should have been redeployed somewhere else. Although I'm struggling to understand why someone in healthcare is refusing to be vaccinated.
I have no problems with people protesting, and there's an argument for restrictions being too harsh or too long, but the hysteria was unjustified in my opinion. It turned into hate and vitriol, not the love fest you describe. I live in interior BC and I saw these protests every week. They were friendly and had a party-like atmosphere if you joined in, but they were nasty, intimidating and basically a big "fuck you" to anyone that disagreed with them. I saw journalists harassed and other people abused. It also attracted the far-right and conspiracy theorists and the MAGA hats, something that really baffles me.
We all wanted the restrictions to end. Who was actually benefiting from them? It wasn't some big conspiracy to keep the people down. The majority of people were happy to be patient rather than throwing their toys out of the pram. Be careful what you wish for. All that talk of Trudolph seems ridiculous when you see what's happening down south right now. I didn't vote for Trudeau and lost faith in him early on, but I can't understand the level of hate he has received when he's actually been an ok leader, especially on the international scene. I do not trust PP to take Canada in the right direction at all.
Yes, it was all one big fun party that everyone enjoyed. As long as that "everyone" doesn't include the citizens of Ottawa, or anyone who wasn't in the Conservative or People's Parties of Canada,...
Yes, it was all one big fun party that everyone enjoyed. As long as that "everyone" doesn't include the citizens of Ottawa, or anyone who wasn't in the Conservative or People's Parties of Canada, who have a very different recollection and experience of the whole matter, including many acts of verbal harassment and abuse, noise pollution, and sleep deprivation. Not the politicians they were mad at. The everyday people of Ottawa. Other Canadians, whose existence and status as Canadians is routinely ignored and disregarded by people insisting that the Convoy was really just a Jimmy Buffet concert tailgate that got a bad rap.
A tailgate that happened to share the exact same goal as the January 6 riots: to wrest power away from a democratically elected government and justifying it with the idea that they acted for all true citizens.
You want to start convincing people it wasn't at all like what they saw, smelt, heard, and lived through? Start with convincing the citizens of Ottawa. Then convince all those NDP and Liberal politicians that they would have been totally safe and not harassed or assaulted if they tried to speak with the Convoyers. If those two groups come around on the Convoy, then we'll have to examine how literally all media coverage left of Rebel News was incorrect on the whole matter.
It's not as black and white as you make it sound. For example, many low-income households receive more in rebates than they pay in carbon taxes. It's the cons' favourite stick to beat the libs...
a punitive carbon tax
It's not as black and white as you make it sound. For example, many low-income households receive more in rebates than they pay in carbon taxes. It's the cons' favourite stick to beat the libs with, but I'd argue it's a minor point compared with many of the other issues we're facing. Housing, immigration, cost of living, wealth disparity, etc. are all huge issues, and the few hundred dollars net spend that the average Canadian pays in carbon tax is not one of them. We all hate paying taxes, but climate change poses a massive threat to our resources and economy.
That was a more patient response than I am typically wont to give, so kudos. The carbon tax is a monetary net benefit for the majority of canadians, and is also a net benefit for people who want...
That was a more patient response than I am typically wont to give, so kudos.
My beef with the carbon tax is that its not optional to heat my house with anything but gas where I live, especially on days like last week with temps hitting -38c. And even though I own an EV its...
My beef with the carbon tax is that its not optional to heat my house with anything but gas where I live, especially on days like last week with temps hitting -38c. And even though I own an EV its also not practical for deep winter driving - it loses half its already short range. But those who live in provinces where electricity is cheap and temps rarely dip much below freezing, its no big deal. The tax is in no way equitable, and it just doesn't work. Its just another tax.
If the gov was actually serious about carbon emissions there are very practical things they could encourage - like buying most everything we need second hand because the carbon footprint has already been paid for. Or encouraging us not to buy everything from China, a country that pollutes far more than Canada does. Or building affordable subsidized east west passenger rail transportation instead of our incredibly expensive Canadian air travel. Or heck, even planting some of the millions of trees that they promised. But none of those things put more money in gov coffers. So another tax it is. Sigh.
Yep, I agree with a lot of that. There is a ton more the government should have been doing. I particularly support the idea of a rail network and relying less on air travel. But your point about...
Yep, I agree with a lot of that. There is a ton more the government should have been doing. I particularly support the idea of a rail network and relying less on air travel. But your point about China is an interesting one, because I'm not entirely sure our govt is encouraging us to buy from China (and it's the only affordable option for many in an increasingly expensive world), and more generally, it's a bit tiring asking us residents to try harder and harder to "do our part" when many of us do already, but it feels hopeless when industries, corporations, other countries, and the wealthy elite get to rack up gigantic carbon footprints and not be held to account properly.
But I guess my two main points would be: 1) Yes, the carbon tax is not perfect, but is it really as bad as we are being led to believe by the Conservatives? 2) Do you think the Conservatives will do any better at reducing carbon emissions?
Like it or not, Im of the opinion that nothing Canada does matters to carbon emissions. We produce 1.3% of the worlds emissions. Even if we could somehow radically cut that in half, which would...
Like it or not, Im of the opinion that nothing Canada does matters to carbon emissions. We produce 1.3% of the worlds emissions. Even if we could somehow radically cut that in half, which would mean RADICAL changes, the loss of many jobs, the shut down of a huge part of our energy sector, major restructuring of transportation, heat and power generation, the globe's atmosphere would notice so little it just doesnt make a difference. The remaining 0.65% would be a margin of error in the modelling used to calculate emissions.
On a per capita basis though, Canada is responsible for more carbon emissions per capita than China. Going by the emissions numbers there (1.5% vs 34%), China has 35x the population but only 23x...
On a per capita basis though, Canada is responsible for more carbon emissions per capita than China. Going by the emissions numbers there (1.5% vs 34%), China has 35x the population but only 23x more emissions. So if Canada doesn't matter, then why should China?
Because its the magnitude of emissions that cause the climate change effect, not the per capita amount. And yes we have high per capita emissions. Because we live in a very cold country thats the...
Because its the magnitude of emissions that cause the climate change effect, not the per capita amount.
And yes we have high per capita emissions. Because we live in a very cold country thats the second largest country in the world. It takes a lot of resources to keep us from freezing and to deliver our goods and services across nearly 10 million sq km. eg. When I lived in Hawaii I didnt have a furnace nor an air conditioner, our minimal power needs came from the sun, our water from the sky, and some of our food grew in our yard but the furthest you could go to get food was across the island, one hour drive max. Thats nearly impossible in Canada. Does that mean that Canadians higher per capita emissions mean they are more wasteful than Hawaiians? No, they just happen to live in a huge country with a hostile environment that requires a lot more resources.
Completely insane. While I'm happy that Pierre isn't a sure win in the same way that he was, I feel like the Liberals (like the Democrats and our NDP) needed their own humbling vision quest to discover who they are, and who they represent. At this rate, we're just all just shuttling toward a Mark Carney future.
I think that is a little overblown. I really like Mike Carney, enough that I joined a political party for the first time in my 41 years to vote for him in the leadership race.
I think the best we can hope for is a Conservative minority. They raise too much money and have too much American and Russian support to actually lose.
I'm happy to be wrong, but I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Mark has a solid resume, but where I find myself concerned I that the guy is untested as a politician.
It’s possibly a benefit IMO. I get the sense that he will consult with and largely defer to experts. Intelligent, educated, and thoughtful is how I would describe him.
Untested, and, given the short amount of time til Parliament resumes, very little time for anyone to try and figure out what he'd be like as a party leader. I dont doubt he's an intelligent man, but Ive heard the adage that the primary job of a party leader is to keep the party together, presumably because infighting will kill a party's power faster than any external force. I have no clue how he'd fare in that department.
Yeah, this echoes what I've heard as well. Canadians can't get to know him and he's not a tested people manager in the political realm. Stephane Dion was a capable leader too, but as I remember, he was cut from the same cloth.
No such thing as a conservative minority this time I don’t think. There are coalition governments and conservatives majorities as possibilities.
That doesn't make sense. Are you suggesting that if the Conservatives end up a minority government the Liberals or NDP would immediately force a new election?
Why would we need a new election? Non conservatives will just prop up Mark Carney rather than allow Pierre to be PM. The NDP despises Pierre.
I don't get what you're saying. If the conservatives get more votes than the other two parties they're a majority and they can do whatever they want. The other parties don't have enough votes to counter them. If they get the most votes, but less than the others combined, they form a minority, allowing coalitions to prop up Carney. That's what we're all hoping for at this point.
It’s not a conservative minority government though, which is what I’m saying. It will be a liberal minority government in that case, with a conservative opposition.
388 polls currently show:
No one is expecting anything other than a conservative win at this point. We're just hoping it's close enough to be a minority. Even if all the other parties formed a coalition (which is unlikely), it'd still be a conservative majority at this point. The NDP hate the Cons but they've also taken a lot of flak for propping up the LPC in recent years, so it's not even certain they would form a coalition at this point.
What they're trying to say is that there will be no 'conservative minority government'; i.e. a parliament controlled by a conservative plurality. If the Conservatives don't get a majority of the votes I believe the GG will ask the previous governing party to form government first -- it's likely it would be the Liberals governing with an NDP supply agreement in such a case.
I'm sorry, I may be ignorant here, but is there any precedent for this? The closest I can think of is The 2008-2009 Parliamentary Dispute where the Liberals and NDP wanted to form a coalition during a snap election called by Harper. The GG decided to prorogue, and by the time parliament resumed the Liberals had soured on the deal, leading to another Harper government. From brief research I believe there's only been one coalition of federal parties in Canadian history.
I’m aware of this case where the Conservatives won a plurality but still didn’t form government.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1925_Canadian_federal_election#
Minority governments are also common federally, although typically it’s a party with a plurality. For example, obviously, the government at this exact moment is a minority government.
It’s also somewhat common at the provincial level for parties losing the plurality to still form government with the support of other minorities.
You can't link to that and omit the greatest named Canadian political scandal of all time: King–Byng Affair.
Not exactly. Harper asked to prorogue to prevent a non-confidence vote after which the GG could have asked parliament to form an alternative government. I believe that would have been a true coalition with a multi-party cabinet but I can't recall exactly.
I should pay more attention to this, since I'm giving serious thought (to the extent of paying a retainer to an immigration law firm) to applying for Canadian citizenship...
Since I had a Canadian parent, I know that Canada has some of the same party oligopoly issues the U.S. faces, as well as the identitarian issues you might expect from a demographically small country (with its own separatist minority) adjoining an overwhelming economic and military power. My understanding is that the Trudeau-led Liberals were more or less social-democratic with a helping of neoliberal internationalism. Like the U.S., that translated into obliviousness to cost-of-living and housing issues. Like the U.S., the notion of "freedom" evolved differently in the Western resource-intensive provinces versus the coasts and metros. Canadian "Conservatives" have a similar mix of religious traditionalists and free-marketers.
It seems to me that NDP/Greens/Liberals could make common cause against the Trump-esque Conservative rhetoric, on economic, environmental, and human rights grounds. How likely is this in reality?
It's really hard to say what is going to happen after during the next federal election. 338Canada show a number of polls and over the last few weeks, the shift has been absolutely wild and we have quite a wait.
Greens will likely play ball with just about anyone - they lack the the importance to do much else - and the NDP and Liberals have a long history of working together in a dysfunctional way, and then stopping when it seems obvious to everyone else that they shouldn't. The Bloq is also a big question mark in there.
So... it could happen. But there are a lot of things between here and there that have to get sorted first, most importantly who is going to take over for Trudeau. Poilievre seems to lack the ability to say positive things about Canada which is really riling people up against him right now.
tl;dr it's a shitshow, and the title of this article is right on - all bets are off. What you asked really could happen. Or it could be a Conservative majority. Or something else. The polls are crazy right now.
Just to add onto this: Polls basically work by consistently calling people who ought to be representable, and then more or less measuring how that has worked with past elections, basically calibrating. With populists polls have already been struggling here in the Netherlands. Now, I can't claim to know much about Canadian politics - but when I think about what the current situation means with polling, it's well, no shit the polls are all over the place. The politics of the country is now in an insane place so the polls can't really calibrate.
No matter what though, good luck. I can't imagine being in your position at this moment.
Its been a wild ride in Canada for the last several weeks. Up until Trudeau decided to step down, a Conservative majority was solidly in the bag according to every poll in existence. But then Trudeau stepped down, and the Liberal leadership race began and the Liberals got a noticeable uptick in support, largely because they knew they at least wouldn't be decimated with Trudeau as leader. But then along comes Donald Trump (I honestly have a hard time not using less complimentary terms) and everyone is off balance, the messages have changed and we're all in a bit of shock.
We didn't expect him to say the kinds of things he's been saying. We didn't expect our longest, most loyal friend and trading partner to not only shove a knife into our gut, but to massively insult every Canadian by saying he wants us to be the 51st state. I don't know a single Canadian who doesn't hate that idea. But I DO believe him when he says he wants to take us over with economic warfare.
So the playing field has changed a LOT in a very short time. What I find surprising is that some people think that a two week shift in the narrative is somehow going to erase the last 9 years of governance and our memories of a lot of things that Canadians found not just troublesome, but offensive about our own government. Mark Carney is indeed a smart man and a good economic leader by all accounts, but that does nothing to erase the fact that his party was the one that locked down Canadian;s bank accounts and illegally used the most powerful legislation we have to force an end to a grassroots protest. His party spent years focusing on climate issues and a punitive carbon tax when it was very clear that housing and inflation costs were top of mind for most of us. And his party spent billions of dollars to drive Canada into the deepest debt its ever seen while double speaking and telling us our GDP was doing fine. His party also far overcompensated with loose immigration standards and flooded the country with "temporary" foreign workers and international students who didnt even attend classes and now want to claim asylum rather than go back home.
So, yes, the issues and the narrative has changed. But the Liberals are still the Liberals and they've had 9 years to turn this ship around. Mark Carney will likely get the nod to lead them, but its still highly doubtful that he'll form the next government. We might be much more unsettled than we were a few weeks ago, but I dont believe thoughtful voters change their voting intentions THAT easily - but dear god, the bots and astroturfers suddenly flooding r*ddit forums would have you believe otherwise.
The Convoy apologism is in the same realm as suggesting January 6 was just a protest.
Well, except for the part where there was no physical violence from the Ottawa protesters, no vandalism, and the convoy was actually invited to park on the streets by Parliament by the police, who had been in contact with the organizers and largely supported their protest. Our members of Parliament walked freely through their midst and enjoyed conversations with them as the protesters hot tubbed, played hockey, had bouncy castles for their kids, held dance parties at the live stage, sang the national anthem and gave out free food to anyone who wanted it, including Ottawa's homeless and yes, honked their horns loudly. Which is EXACTLY the same as an out of control riotous mob storming the Capital, pushing down barriers, forcing back police and flooding into into private offices and the House of Representatives causing legislators to flee in fear to secure shelter, while Capitol police pushed furniture against the chamber doors and brandished their weapons as the protesters attempted to smash them down, resulting in the shooting death of one protester as they tried to physically overthrow the government. The only people who got hurt in Ottawa were protesters and even when run down by a horse or thrown down to be arrested or shot with tear gas canisters, they encouraged each other to hold the line and not resort to violence. Which they didn't.
The similarities are that they both took place at the heart of government and they both had large crowds. But the devil is in the details and the Canadian protest was very... Canadian.
That sounds positively delightful! I get your point that it wasn't like the Jan 6 riots, but that is a very rosy picture of the convoy. Talk to some of the Ottawa locals and see their side of the story. You also omitted details about US donation influence (election interference), economic impact to supply lines, swastikas on flags, dancing on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, assault and racial slurs of local businesses, blocking ambulance routes, 100 decibel noise pollution.... and of course, Covid 19 spiked. Yes, there were some decent protesters there, but there were also plenty of racist bigots out there looking for trouble.
I didnt start out to write an essay but once I got rolling I wanted to address the points you brought up, which are often given by those who opposed the Freedom Convoy. So I hope you'll bear with my TedTalk.
My primary point was to refute the idea that Jan 6 and the Freedom Convoy protest were similar, other than being large protests at the seat of power. Not only was there no physical violence, vandalism or deaths from the convoy protesters, Police Chief Peter Sloly said there was a 60% drop in petty crime in Centretown during the protest. That's not the characteristic of a riotous mob.
The Freedom Convoy protest was indeed a powerful protest and a landmark event in Canada's history, but it was largely mischaracterized by almost all of the mainstream media - and obviously thats where most people get their information. My sources however were not the mainstream media. a) I had direct contact with friends who attended the protest, b) I have spoken at length to one of the primary organizers, c) I watched many days of livestreaming during the protest (which has been archived at convoylive.ca), d) I watched the entire 6 weeks of Public Order Emergency Commission live, e) I have closely followed the legal proceedings of the main organizers' trial, e) I have closely followed the work of The Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms (JCCF) and the Canadian Constitution Foundation (CCF) lawyers in proving that the Emergencies Act was used illegally to shut down the protest and who also have been instrumental in getting hundreds of covid restriction charges and protest charges dropped and fired workers reinstated.
All that to say, this matters to me and I have dived into the details to get facts as straight from the horses mouth as possible.
Were some people in Ottawa annoyed and angry at the protesters? Yes, indeed some were. Thats true. Especially those living on or near Wellington Street in Centretown.
But many Ottawans supported the protesters. Some brought food and gave them cash to keep them going. The most obvious sign of public support was when the police tried to ban the semi trucks from getting fuel and dozens of citizens showed up with fuel cans to refill their tanks.
Some citizens, notably a black Ottawa businessman, showed up to say on camera he came down to see it for himself and concluded that this protest isn't the way its being portrayed in the news. 'We've had no problems here and the people are all friendly.' Michelle Ferreri, MP for Peterborough/Kawartha who has an apartment within walking distance of Parliament, made a livestream while she walked home, alone at night, stopping to chat with protesters along the way. Not only were they friendly, she met Quebecers partying with Albertans and it was obviously safe for a single woman to be out there, despite the media portrayal.
As for the guy with the swastika flag, after looking at the totality of circumstances, I can only conclude he was more than likely a plant. His face was covered - almost everyone was unmasked, and protesting mask mandates, so why cover his if he believed he would be supported? He walked into the crowd and the protesters around him were not impressed. There is video of protesters telling him to move on and he got harassed into leaving. But he also came with a photographer with a professional camera, which is pretty suspect for a single protester with an objectionable flag. When he was pushed to leave the crowd he walked up the steps to the Fairmont hotel and disappeared inside. That was the hotel being used by the out of town police, not the protesters, also very odd. There were many upset protesters who wanted to identify him even offering a cash reward to anyone who could find out who he was, but he disappeared and he and his flag were not seen again.
Im not saying there couldn't be a nazi wingnut in the crowd, but the fact that there were thousands of protesters there jubilantly protesting with their faces uncovered and one suspicious anonymous guy with his face hidden is carrying a nazi flag - and that's the thing the media grabbed onto to portray the crowd as nazi sympathizers is just well... highly prejudicial and inaccurate.
As for the disruption to supply lines, if you read Canada's State of Trade report for 2023 you would see that while the press was trying to portray the stall of trucks coming over the border as Canada "losing millions of dollars a day" in fact, overall trade rebounded quickly after the protest and overall trade was not impacted. While the Ambassador Bridge was blocked, there were two other crossings that were open within a short drive, so suppliers could reroute their shipments. Trade was disrupted, yes. But damaged? No. If you listened to the media reports at the time, the protest was quickly killing Canada's economy. It just didn't.
It's also noteworthy that the convoy organizers never asked anyone to go block the border crossings, some protesters took that into their own hands and while the gov partially used the blockings to justify using the Emergencies Act, they were in fact cleared before the EA was enacted on Feb. 14.
The "US influence" on donations, also portrayed as the 'dark international money' was entirely fabricated. Someone hacked the gofundme database (reporting based on an illegal hack is apparently not a problem for the media if it fits an agenda) and wrongly made the assertion that much or most of the protest donations were coming from the US and even "Russia". The CBC jumped on that assertion and CBC's Nil Koksal conjectured openly in an interview about Russia's interference with no evidence to back it. It was just plain false. In subsequent investigation, GoFundMe executive Juan Benitez stated that 86% of the donors to the original Freedom Convoy campaign were Canadian, and 88% of the donated funds came from Canadian sources. Its not unreasonable that much of the remaining 12% came from Canadians living in other countries and a small amount from sympathizers who weren't Canadian. But you didnt see that stated in the press. They went with the hackers narrative because that supported the media agenda that this wasn't a grassroots Canadian protest, which it was.
Same with the 'dancing on the tomb of the unknown soldier' incident. It was one person and the media used that to portray the entire protest as disrespectful of our military. The dancer wasn't even officially linked to the Freedom Convoy, and leaders of the convoy themselves publicly condemned the act. Ottawa police later identified the person involved and she issued a public apology. The press coverage largely ignored the contingent of Canadian veterans who were there in support of the protest and who put up a fence barrier around the monument after that and stood guard around it to make sure there would not be another incident. One person did something disrespectful but the press leaped on it to blackball thousands of people who were also upset at her.
The media also said two protesters tried to burn down an apartment building. There were indeed two arsonists who started a fire in a hallway and locked the exit doors. After their arrest and investigation, it turned out they had nothing to do with the protest as confirmed by the police. But that didnt stop the media from immediately and falsely associating them with the protest.
There were some people who got called names yes, on both sides. Is that shocking at a protest? While the name calling got front page news, the press never mentioned the protesters who got eggs thrown at them from buildings or much worse, a group who sneaked into the protest at night and punctured several semi truck tires, causing thousands of dollars in damage. But it was some name calling that got press, not actual vandalism against the protesters. Just like the flag incident and dancing incident, it was annoying that the media focus was on denigrating thousands of people's protest because a small minority were troublesome while more serious issues got ignored. Imagine the outcry if the protesters were the ones throwing eggs and puncturing the tires of police cars.
The main irritant was the honking of truck horns and even that mostly ended after the court injunction. It still happened in bursts. But that's what a protest is. Its supposed to be disruptive and attention grabbing. I do feel for the people who live on or near Wellington St. but to say that the protest should not have happened or gone on so long because it mostly disrupted the lives of some people in a small area near our center of power, while benefiting millions of others around the world seems a bit... short sighted. There was some pain but there was a much greater good. There were thousands if not millions of people who were in despair, some even telling the organizers they were suicidal, until the Freedom Convoy came along and restored their hope. There's a reason that thousands of people lined the highways in absolutely frigid conditions to cheer them on.
A protest is also supposed to make a point and it most definitely did. Once again, our press completely downplayed it, but there were sympathetic Freedom Convoy type protests that started all over the world in response and solidarity with Canada's protest. For once in our life, Canada was at the forefront of an international movement: The US had the People's Convoy that traversed the country in early 2022. In France, there was the "Convoi de la Liberté". In Belgium, truckers and other groups demonstrated in Brussels. In the Netherlands, Dutch truck drivers organized a convoy. Australia had truckers and other citizens taking to the streets, mostly in Canberra. In New Zealand, there was the "Convoy for Freedom". Italy had smaller but similar protests. Germany had a convoy movement with people driving in cars and trucks to show their opposition to government policies. And in many of those protests around the world, people flew Canadian flags because our protest is what inspired them.
All in all, there were millions of citizens worldwide who agreed that they were done with the lockdowns, done with the restrictions, done with the uselessness of things like ArriveCan, done with government overreach and wanted it to end. And it did, starting right after our Freedom Convoy (which again the press will tell you, was just 'coincidence') Do I think some Ottawa citizens had to put up with some pain for almost a month? Yes. Was it worth it? For the sake of the rest of the world and the sake of ending the overreaching restrictions on millions, absolutely.
On a personal note, my wife and I and all our adult children and grandchildren were covid-19 vaccinated. We wore masks in public. Our Christmas gathering was by Zoom. Two of my kids are Canadian physicians - We're not knuckle dragging buffoons or 'racists and misogynists' and we believed we were safer using vaccines and restrictions. However, I DO believe the restrictions had gone too far, had gone on too long and the government overreach was no longer justified and it was time to end it. So obviously yes, I supported the Freedom Convoy protest to end the covid restrictions and give back the public's freedom. I also strongly believe the gov acted improperly and illegally, and the courts have borne that out.
There's a lot of "just one guy" kind of dismissal in there, yet just one guy handing out food is of note? I also find it strange that the "mainstream media" seems to be labelled as untrustworthy, whereas your sources seems to have come from within or closely connected to the convoy. That doesn't seem like it will give you balanced reporting. The CBC is progressive on many social issues, but it's not some leftist propaganda empire doing the government's bidding. It is actually fairly neutral on political matters. Besides that, Canadian media is largely owned by private companies like PostMedia, and they are certainly not leftist. So why would hundreds of journalists all be out to mischaracterize the convoy?
I'd say those restrictions were worth it based on the fact they probably saved the lives of thousands, maybe tens of thousands. The government's response was not perfect but it was pretty darn good for an unprecedented pandemic where every country was trying to figure things out on the fly.
At no point did I ever feel like my freedoms were so impinged that I felt depressed or suicidal. I think those that lost their jobs have a more legitimate beef, and this is where I think the government did get it wrong. I think they were right to insist on vaccinations for those in front-line healthcare, but I don't think they should have lost their jobs. They should have been redeployed somewhere else. Although I'm struggling to understand why someone in healthcare is refusing to be vaccinated.
I have no problems with people protesting, and there's an argument for restrictions being too harsh or too long, but the hysteria was unjustified in my opinion. It turned into hate and vitriol, not the love fest you describe. I live in interior BC and I saw these protests every week. They were friendly and had a party-like atmosphere if you joined in, but they were nasty, intimidating and basically a big "fuck you" to anyone that disagreed with them. I saw journalists harassed and other people abused. It also attracted the far-right and conspiracy theorists and the MAGA hats, something that really baffles me.
We all wanted the restrictions to end. Who was actually benefiting from them? It wasn't some big conspiracy to keep the people down. The majority of people were happy to be patient rather than throwing their toys out of the pram. Be careful what you wish for. All that talk of Trudolph seems ridiculous when you see what's happening down south right now. I didn't vote for Trudeau and lost faith in him early on, but I can't understand the level of hate he has received when he's actually been an ok leader, especially on the international scene. I do not trust PP to take Canada in the right direction at all.
Yes, it was all one big fun party that everyone enjoyed. As long as that "everyone" doesn't include the citizens of Ottawa, or anyone who wasn't in the Conservative or People's Parties of Canada, who have a very different recollection and experience of the whole matter, including many acts of verbal harassment and abuse, noise pollution, and sleep deprivation. Not the politicians they were mad at. The everyday people of Ottawa. Other Canadians, whose existence and status as Canadians is routinely ignored and disregarded by people insisting that the Convoy was really just a Jimmy Buffet concert tailgate that got a bad rap.
A tailgate that happened to share the exact same goal as the January 6 riots: to wrest power away from a democratically elected government and justifying it with the idea that they acted for all true citizens.
You want to start convincing people it wasn't at all like what they saw, smelt, heard, and lived through? Start with convincing the citizens of Ottawa. Then convince all those NDP and Liberal politicians that they would have been totally safe and not harassed or assaulted if they tried to speak with the Convoyers. If those two groups come around on the Convoy, then we'll have to examine how literally all media coverage left of Rebel News was incorrect on the whole matter.
Just posted a rather long diatribe about this on this thread.
It's not as black and white as you make it sound. For example, many low-income households receive more in rebates than they pay in carbon taxes. It's the cons' favourite stick to beat the libs with, but I'd argue it's a minor point compared with many of the other issues we're facing. Housing, immigration, cost of living, wealth disparity, etc. are all huge issues, and the few hundred dollars net spend that the average Canadian pays in carbon tax is not one of them. We all hate paying taxes, but climate change poses a massive threat to our resources and economy.
That was a more patient response than I am typically wont to give, so kudos.
The carbon tax is a monetary net benefit for the majority of canadians, and is also a net benefit for people who want to, you know, be able to live moving forward. Here is an article from the David Suzuki foundation about the carbon tax.
My beef with the carbon tax is that its not optional to heat my house with anything but gas where I live, especially on days like last week with temps hitting -38c. And even though I own an EV its also not practical for deep winter driving - it loses half its already short range. But those who live in provinces where electricity is cheap and temps rarely dip much below freezing, its no big deal. The tax is in no way equitable, and it just doesn't work. Its just another tax.
If the gov was actually serious about carbon emissions there are very practical things they could encourage - like buying most everything we need second hand because the carbon footprint has already been paid for. Or encouraging us not to buy everything from China, a country that pollutes far more than Canada does. Or building affordable subsidized east west passenger rail transportation instead of our incredibly expensive Canadian air travel. Or heck, even planting some of the millions of trees that they promised. But none of those things put more money in gov coffers. So another tax it is. Sigh.
Yep, I agree with a lot of that. There is a ton more the government should have been doing. I particularly support the idea of a rail network and relying less on air travel. But your point about China is an interesting one, because I'm not entirely sure our govt is encouraging us to buy from China (and it's the only affordable option for many in an increasingly expensive world), and more generally, it's a bit tiring asking us residents to try harder and harder to "do our part" when many of us do already, but it feels hopeless when industries, corporations, other countries, and the wealthy elite get to rack up gigantic carbon footprints and not be held to account properly.
But I guess my two main points would be: 1) Yes, the carbon tax is not perfect, but is it really as bad as we are being led to believe by the Conservatives? 2) Do you think the Conservatives will do any better at reducing carbon emissions?
Like it or not, Im of the opinion that nothing Canada does matters to carbon emissions. We produce 1.3% of the worlds emissions. Even if we could somehow radically cut that in half, which would mean RADICAL changes, the loss of many jobs, the shut down of a huge part of our energy sector, major restructuring of transportation, heat and power generation, the globe's atmosphere would notice so little it just doesnt make a difference. The remaining 0.65% would be a margin of error in the modelling used to calculate emissions.
On a per capita basis though, Canada is responsible for more carbon emissions per capita than China. Going by the emissions numbers there (1.5% vs 34%), China has 35x the population but only 23x more emissions. So if Canada doesn't matter, then why should China?
Because its the magnitude of emissions that cause the climate change effect, not the per capita amount.
And yes we have high per capita emissions. Because we live in a very cold country thats the second largest country in the world. It takes a lot of resources to keep us from freezing and to deliver our goods and services across nearly 10 million sq km. eg. When I lived in Hawaii I didnt have a furnace nor an air conditioner, our minimal power needs came from the sun, our water from the sky, and some of our food grew in our yard but the furthest you could go to get food was across the island, one hour drive max. Thats nearly impossible in Canada. Does that mean that Canadians higher per capita emissions mean they are more wasteful than Hawaiians? No, they just happen to live in a huge country with a hostile environment that requires a lot more resources.