It’s Christian Nationalism of the Charismatic variety; the Seven Mountain Mandate forms the basis of its tenets. So, not all Christians, but most assuredly these Christians.
It’s Christian Nationalism of the Charismatic variety; the Seven Mountain Mandate forms the basis of its tenets.
So, not all Christians, but most assuredly these Christians.
Yes, #notallchristians. But until there's noticeable pushback from other Christian denominations to actually resist these actions, I'm not clear why I should put effort into trying to preemptively...
Yes, #notallchristians. But until there's noticeable pushback from other Christian denominations to actually resist these actions, I'm not clear why I should put effort into trying to preemptively defend all of the Christians who will quietly benefit from such actions while engaging in, at most, a bit of performative hand-wringing.
When Trump called out Lutheran social service nonprofits funded by the feds as fraudulent and wasteful, a Lutheran leader made and released a video calling on Christians to remember the martyrs...
When Trump called out Lutheran social service nonprofits funded by the feds as fraudulent and wasteful, a Lutheran leader made and released a video calling on Christians to remember the martyrs under Rome.
The mainline denominations get erased by fundamentalists as 'not true christians' and they get erased by atheists as if they don't exist, but they will not be favored by this proposed agency and they for the most part are progressive, feed the hungry and generally follow a set of priorities set out in Mathew 25.
Mainline protestants do a lot, but what they do is generally not treated as newsworthy.
Here is the video protesting cutting off Lutheran Social Services. I will get back to you with statements about this agency as I find them.
I'm certainly open to hearing more about Christians pushing back on things like this agency, especially in situations where they don't have a direct financial loss from Trump's actions. The video...
I'm certainly open to hearing more about Christians pushing back on things like this agency, especially in situations where they don't have a direct financial loss from Trump's actions. The video was moving, absolutely, but was A) in response to a direct attack on their organization with regards to a removal of funding, and B) an incredibly mild response with regards to the actual actions of government officials, merely saying
"We strongly urge all political leaders at all levels of government to use their offices and platforms responsibly. They should consider the impact of misleading statements and conjecture with regard for the impact those statements have on communities targeted by these messages."
This is so vague and soft as to be meaningless. You could say that at any time about anyone and it has the same impact: none. This is not visible resistance. Maybe they're quietly doing something. Maybe they're quietly doing nothing. But when people from one branch of Christianity is actively assailing the government and those from others are saying "Maybe people should be more thoughtful with their words." it's hard to think of them as equally relevant branches with regards to their impacts on society.
Primarily this looks like a way for members of the office of the president to officially visit faith leaders and relay information to and from Trump? Or did I miss something. Edit: My summary of...
Primarily this looks like a way for members of the office of the president to officially visit faith leaders and relay information to and from Trump? Or did I miss something.
Edit: My summary of Trump round 2 is his administration seems to be performing a breadth-first-search on the boundaries of the presidency. They’re defying the constitution on many fronts. Not all initiatives will stick but with the low chance of a conviction from the senate and the SCOTUS ruling Trump is above the law they can get away with quite a lot.
This works better than targeted approaches like focusing on a specific issue as democrats tend to (climate change, income inequality, social justice) as it’s harder to rally against so many things at once. Democrats should learn from this. The current winning political strategy is to:
Engage with voters on a “vibe” level.
Do tons of random things that give the appearance of alignment between the politicians and the people. (Requires actually knowing what your base wants)
Also… cheat when and where you can. But I think you could cheat a lot less if you weren’t also trying to acquire so much personally from your political success.
It seems pretty clear to me though, that this EO is solidly aimed at establishing the path to Christian Nationalism above everything else (quite possibly on the path to establishing Christianity...
It seems pretty clear to me though, that this EO is solidly aimed at establishing the path to Christian Nationalism above everything else (quite possibly on the path to establishing Christianity as the 'Official State Religion' later on as they consolidate further), with a nod to Israel since they are our closest buddy authoritarian state. It's about an overall plan to re-write American national identity to be in line with the Heritage Foundation's view of what the USA should be.
I'm wondering if we are going to get through the next four years without devolving into literal civil war - not that I'm expecting functional, trustworthy elections by then anyway. the orange (and the Project 2025 architects steering him) are pushing a loyalty purge combined with demolishing the foundations of all institutions that could oppose their coup (and I don't see what else I could reasonably call it at this stage - I do not believe I am overstating things) and they are in full internal-blitzkrieg mode to destroy everything that could stop their consolidation of power before the slow procedural and institutional momentum of those institutions can react with efficacy.
Every service member in every branch of the US military swore their oath to the Constitution, not to the President. At the same time, every service member is also a human being with their own biases and political beliefs. I don't know what is going to happen, and I'm not ashamed to say it bluntly - I am afraid.
I do not see us entering civil war within 4 years. If interstate travel or trade is interfered with (perhaps as a punishment to blue states) or elections become a sham then there's a chance.
I do not see us entering civil war within 4 years. If interstate travel or trade is interfered with (perhaps as a punishment to blue states) or elections become a sham then there's a chance.
We talked about this once. Before the inauguration I was confident that we would muddle through this to another election. Now that Trump is supporting Musk's efforts, I am afraid for the republic....
We talked about this once. Before the inauguration I was confident that we would muddle through this to another election. Now that Trump is supporting Musk's efforts, I am afraid for the republic. Nothing is certain, but these guys are serious about trying to dismantle what came before and replacing it with their vision of what's next.
While Trump certainly can use Jesus in his live I get the feeling this is going to be used to discriminate against Muslims and other insane policies. I have this feeling that he'll push so hard...
While Trump certainly can use Jesus in his live I get the feeling this is going to be used to discriminate against Muslims and other insane policies.
I have this feeling that he'll push so hard that it'll cause social revolt sooner or later but god knows(heh) how that'll end up looking.
I don't think "conjoin" is the right word for this. There are lots of churches, they disagree with each other, and I think they value their independence? But it does seems to be an attempt to send...
I don't think "conjoin" is the right word for this. There are lots of churches, they disagree with each other, and I think they value their independence?
But it does seems to be an attempt to send taxpayer money to churches.
Note that many European countries have a state-supported church. This doesn't seem like the end of the world? But in the US, this is against the First Amendment.
As with most things in the past few weeks, there’s an immediate order, a subtext, a constitutional conflict, and an end goal that are very transparent. What is explicitly stated is not that...
As with most things in the past few weeks, there’s an immediate order, a subtext, a constitutional conflict, and an end goal that are very transparent. What is explicitly stated is not that America is a Christian nation, but it is understood and has many implications. There will be no “constitution” as we know it by the time four years are up.
I hope you’re right - but first we have to see how our current president responds when judicial tells him what he’s doing is illegal. If judicial doesn’t stop anything, war is almost inevitable in...
I hope you’re right - but first we have to see how our current president responds when judicial tells him what he’s doing is illegal. If judicial doesn’t stop anything, war is almost inevitable in my humble, paranoid, doom spiraling opinion.
War with who? It's terrible for anyone working for the federal government or dependent on it for funds and that's probably millions of people. But for them, there's no shooting involved, no people...
War with who? It's terrible for anyone working for the federal government or dependent on it for funds and that's probably millions of people. But for them, there's no shooting involved, no people with guns. What's happening to the US government resembles nothing so much as a corporate takeover, like what happened with Twitter. People quit or get fired or lose funding, not killed. Projects get cancelled, and maybe un-cancelled. The money goes... where?
If government spending is cut enough, the result might be a recession, and I expect that the courts will be tied up straightening out the mess for years to come.
We’ll see. Complete disregard for constitutional law and an absolute refusal by any authority to enforce it, with a country pretty evenly split along very disparate ideological lines, to me — and...
We’ll see. Complete disregard for constitutional law and an absolute refusal by any authority to enforce it, with a country pretty evenly split along very disparate ideological lines, to me — and again maybe I’m being extreme and irrational it wouldn’t be the first time — these are the kinds of things that have caused civil wars to break out. There’s not an opposing party until things get bad enough for the lines to be drawn. USA has been immune for a while but what’s happening now is unique and will set precedents for what the country is going to be going forward.
I’m not trying to argue or anything - I may be speaking loosely. This just feels like one of many slippery slopes, and I’m following those slopes to a conclusion that may be a little more extreme than the reality of the situation. My initial comment was more for the joke about the wealth of history of a unified church and state and how it relates to America existing, I’m not stating that this EO literally and actually signifies that the church and state are officially conjoined as one two headed beast now. I do think that’s what they want to do, I just don’t know how successful they’ll be.
Also last thing, there are “churches” and then there is “The Church,” which in Rome would be the Catholic Church and based on influence and cash in America would probably be along the lines of...
Also last thing, there are “churches” and then there is “The Church,” which in Rome would be the Catholic Church and based on influence and cash in America would probably be along the lines of evangelicals, Baptist fundamentalists, Catholics and other socially conservative wings of Christianity. The churches people attend and The Church the political power and movement are related but different things.
I foresee a very busy year for the Satanic Temple's work to call out instances of a particular religion trying to enforce its tenets on everyone else.
*people trying to force a certain religion's name on everyone
It's not being done by a religion, and it's not that religion's tenets.
It’s Christian Nationalism of the Charismatic variety; the Seven Mountain Mandate forms the basis of its tenets.
So, not all Christians, but most assuredly these Christians.
Which is extremely far from saying it's a whole religion that's doing it.
Yes, #notallchristians. But until there's noticeable pushback from other Christian denominations to actually resist these actions, I'm not clear why I should put effort into trying to preemptively defend all of the Christians who will quietly benefit from such actions while engaging in, at most, a bit of performative hand-wringing.
When Trump called out Lutheran social service nonprofits funded by the feds as fraudulent and wasteful, a Lutheran leader made and released a video calling on Christians to remember the martyrs under Rome.
The mainline denominations get erased by fundamentalists as 'not true christians' and they get erased by atheists as if they don't exist, but they will not be favored by this proposed agency and they for the most part are progressive, feed the hungry and generally follow a set of priorities set out in Mathew 25.
Mainline protestants do a lot, but what they do is generally not treated as newsworthy.
Here is the video protesting cutting off Lutheran Social Services. I will get back to you with statements about this agency as I find them.
I'm certainly open to hearing more about Christians pushing back on things like this agency, especially in situations where they don't have a direct financial loss from Trump's actions. The video was moving, absolutely, but was A) in response to a direct attack on their organization with regards to a removal of funding, and B) an incredibly mild response with regards to the actual actions of government officials, merely saying
This is so vague and soft as to be meaningless. You could say that at any time about anyone and it has the same impact: none. This is not visible resistance. Maybe they're quietly doing something. Maybe they're quietly doing nothing. But when people from one branch of Christianity is actively assailing the government and those from others are saying "Maybe people should be more thoughtful with their words." it's hard to think of them as equally relevant branches with regards to their impacts on society.
I'll keep you posted. I've reached my limit for internet research today.
Here is some evidence from a Jewish publication
Awesome, thank you. I'm glad to see it.
Also, an action alert from This organization came to my inbox today re protecting trans people.
Primarily this looks like a way for members of the office of the president to officially visit faith leaders and relay information to and from Trump? Or did I miss something.
Edit: My summary of Trump round 2 is his administration seems to be performing a breadth-first-search on the boundaries of the presidency. They’re defying the constitution on many fronts. Not all initiatives will stick but with the low chance of a conviction from the senate and the SCOTUS ruling Trump is above the law they can get away with quite a lot.
This works better than targeted approaches like focusing on a specific issue as democrats tend to (climate change, income inequality, social justice) as it’s harder to rally against so many things at once. Democrats should learn from this. The current winning political strategy is to:
It seems pretty clear to me though, that this EO is solidly aimed at establishing the path to Christian Nationalism above everything else (quite possibly on the path to establishing Christianity as the 'Official State Religion' later on as they consolidate further), with a nod to Israel since they are our closest buddy authoritarian state. It's about an overall plan to re-write American national identity to be in line with the Heritage Foundation's view of what the USA should be.
I'm wondering if we are going to get through the next four years without devolving into literal civil war - not that I'm expecting functional, trustworthy elections by then anyway. the orange (and the Project 2025 architects steering him) are pushing a loyalty purge combined with demolishing the foundations of all institutions that could oppose their coup (and I don't see what else I could reasonably call it at this stage - I do not believe I am overstating things) and they are in full internal-blitzkrieg mode to destroy everything that could stop their consolidation of power before the slow procedural and institutional momentum of those institutions can react with efficacy.
Every service member in every branch of the US military swore their oath to the Constitution, not to the President. At the same time, every service member is also a human being with their own biases and political beliefs. I don't know what is going to happen, and I'm not ashamed to say it bluntly - I am afraid.
I do not see us entering civil war within 4 years. If interstate travel or trade is interfered with (perhaps as a punishment to blue states) or elections become a sham then there's a chance.
We talked about this once. Before the inauguration I was confident that we would muddle through this to another election. Now that Trump is supporting Musk's efforts, I am afraid for the republic. Nothing is certain, but these guys are serious about trying to dismantle what came before and replacing it with their vision of what's next.
Bull. Shit.
Separation of church and state? Anyone???? Said above: see the Constitution of the United States.
While Trump certainly can use Jesus in his live I get the feeling this is going to be used to discriminate against Muslims and other insane policies.
I have this feeling that he'll push so hard that it'll cause social revolt sooner or later but god knows(heh) how that'll end up looking.
Even beyond the obvious forthcoming discrimination, this is among the many, many things that go against The Constitution.
Jesus? That guy’s so boring and uninspiring. Not very good at his job, either.
Yep. This video is somewhat enlightening: https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnewsvideo/comments/1ikchju/russ_vought_trumps_budget_guy_just_confirmed_5347/
Yeah seems to conjoin the church and state. Don’t think I’ve ever heard of trying to combine them what an interesting and novel approach to society.
I don't think "conjoin" is the right word for this. There are lots of churches, they disagree with each other, and I think they value their independence?
But it does seems to be an attempt to send taxpayer money to churches.
Note that many European countries have a state-supported church. This doesn't seem like the end of the world? But in the US, this is against the First Amendment.
As with most things in the past few weeks, there’s an immediate order, a subtext, a constitutional conflict, and an end goal that are very transparent. What is explicitly stated is not that America is a Christian nation, but it is understood and has many implications. There will be no “constitution” as we know it by the time four years are up.
That's quite an extreme scenario. I expect that elections will happen on schedule, though who knows if we will like the results.
I hope you’re right - but first we have to see how our current president responds when judicial tells him what he’s doing is illegal. If judicial doesn’t stop anything, war is almost inevitable in my humble, paranoid, doom spiraling opinion.
War with who? It's terrible for anyone working for the federal government or dependent on it for funds and that's probably millions of people. But for them, there's no shooting involved, no people with guns. What's happening to the US government resembles nothing so much as a corporate takeover, like what happened with Twitter. People quit or get fired or lose funding, not killed. Projects get cancelled, and maybe un-cancelled. The money goes... where?
If government spending is cut enough, the result might be a recession, and I expect that the courts will be tied up straightening out the mess for years to come.
We’ll see. Complete disregard for constitutional law and an absolute refusal by any authority to enforce it, with a country pretty evenly split along very disparate ideological lines, to me — and again maybe I’m being extreme and irrational it wouldn’t be the first time — these are the kinds of things that have caused civil wars to break out. There’s not an opposing party until things get bad enough for the lines to be drawn. USA has been immune for a while but what’s happening now is unique and will set precedents for what the country is going to be going forward.
I’m not trying to argue or anything - I may be speaking loosely. This just feels like one of many slippery slopes, and I’m following those slopes to a conclusion that may be a little more extreme than the reality of the situation. My initial comment was more for the joke about the wealth of history of a unified church and state and how it relates to America existing, I’m not stating that this EO literally and actually signifies that the church and state are officially conjoined as one two headed beast now. I do think that’s what they want to do, I just don’t know how successful they’ll be.
Also last thing, there are “churches” and then there is “The Church,” which in Rome would be the Catholic Church and based on influence and cash in America would probably be along the lines of evangelicals, Baptist fundamentalists, Catholics and other socially conservative wings of Christianity. The churches people attend and The Church the political power and movement are related but different things.