22 votes

The feckless opposition

12 comments

  1. [8]
    chocobean
    Link
    And here, their actions speak louder than their words: the world that Musk is building is also one that enormously benefits the ruling Democrat leaders. They're the same people: the rich. They're...

    Martin, with his more of the same message, easily defeated former Bernie Sanders campaign manager Faiz Shakir, whose call for fundamental change in the party got him exactly two votes at the DNC, to Martin’s 246. [...]

    The message is that Trump and his cronies are building a world for them, not for you,

    And here, their actions speak louder than their words: the world that Musk is building is also one that enormously benefits the ruling Democrat leaders. They're the same people: the rich. They're probably actually celebrating right now: the Republicans are going to make them even more disgustingly rich, and the more angry the citizens become, the better their chances are at the next election because that anger is their only game plan. They don't have a New Deal because they don't want it.

    Bernie Sanders is still at it, though. His youtube channel is like the only sane politician left speaking, rightfully calling them the oligarchy, but also how the American people can fix things.

    20 votes
    1. [5]
      Greg
      Link Parent
      The thing that really gets me is that I just don’t see the appeal of being the kings of the wasteland in their walled castles. I see the appeal of being on top, sure, but even with Musk-level...

      The thing that really gets me is that I just don’t see the appeal of being the kings of the wasteland in their walled castles. I see the appeal of being on top, sure, but even with Musk-level money I’d vastly prefer a comfortable life somewhere like Denmark where the general tenor of society has more focus on trust and comfort for everyone. It’s not even necessarily altruism - even selfishly I’d just like to walk out my front door (or even the gates of my sprawling estate, if I were that way inclined) and be somewhere pleasant, calm, and happy.

      I know there are people who don’t see it like that. The evidence is clear and it’s obviously not new - leaders making their own lives worse in exchange for an even wider gap over their subjects is one of the few times I get to say “literally 1984” without it being a meme - but I just don’t get it. They’d still be rich, they’d still be on top, and being at the top of a stronger, wealthier, happier, better hierarchy seems like a far bigger win even from a perspective of status. But apparently the relative gap matters more, even if that moves their own absolute position down.

      24 votes
      1. chocobean
        Link Parent
        You know storm chasers, folks who go out to see storm surge, people who play with fire, folks who climb over the rail for a selfie, people who buy houses on a karst zone/flood plain etc? They are...
        • Exemplary

        You know storm chasers, folks who go out to see storm surge, people who play with fire, folks who climb over the rail for a selfie, people who buy houses on a karst zone/flood plain etc? They are so removed from society that they really do think they're very very safe. They have SO MUCH, they feel so safe, and everything they can see is so prosperous that they really do believe it's not possible for the empire to crumble to the point where their own comfort will be compromised.

        Personal story: my father's parents lived in pre-communist China, and were wealthy landowners. They managed to hire British architects and engineers to build factories in rural Canton, China even back in the day, that kind of wealthy. So then whispers of war. Even after they met people fleeing, even after they have been warned and people in their town are starting to leave, they thought the best thing to do was to ride it out. Surely, they have so much connection and wealth they'll be okay. Spoiler alert, they didn't.

        One of my father's current day friends was also from a wealthy family. They did the other thing, and this is what it took. The family friend's father joined the intelligentsia and was all in on communism being a wonderful ideal and the best thing...until he got further in and learned of the corruption and how it's all just a violent coup and a grift. He was too far in by then and couldn't physically get away, so he secretly sent word to his wife: sell everything, take pennies on the dollar, flee, meet up in Hong Kong. His wife, bless her soul, took action. She was acting like a lunatic and "lost" so much, her kids' lives uprooted for no apparent reason, and she was basically the village fool for a number of years. Every single day where lives back home seemed normal and fine was another day she must have questioned herself why.

        See also post hand-over Hong Kong: some people fled ahead of it and were labelled fools because life was never better for the wealthy for another good 20 years. Those who "sold too soon" lost massively, and many who left came all the way back and started well behind their buddies.

        Anyway the point isn't that my ancestors were fools: it's that it's difficult to even want to see danger ahead, and much harder still to sacrificially act in accordance to it. Rats jump off a sinking ship, sure, but where are those rats going to swim to next? And anyway, ship captains who believe in their Titanic won't jump until the very last possible moments, because they believe they can steer it, and weather it.

        So the Democrats. They're not thinking of the coming wasteland, they're salivating over their turn at the helm and their turn looting the vault.

        26 votes
      2. [2]
        hobbes64
        Link Parent
        Yeah I saw a story recently about the underground bunkers that the super rich are building. And I thought about how fucking dismal and stupid that is, because these people have the power and...

        Yeah I saw a story recently about the underground bunkers that the super rich are building. And I thought about how fucking dismal and stupid that is, because these people have the power and resources to create a world that doesn’t need such things. If the world does become a fallout dystopia it will have been caused by the greed and selfishness of the people who have to live in the ashes and never see sunlight again.

        There are so many sci fi stories and video games about this, it would be cool if the right people saw them and learned something.

        15 votes
        1. moocow1452
          Link Parent
          They did, and your dystopia was their instruction manual. These are the folks who grew up on Neuromancer and Snow Crash, and thought that’s the world they would like to live in. They wanted an...

          There are so many sci fi stories and video games about this, it would be cool if the right people saw them and learned something.

          They did, and your dystopia was their instruction manual. These are the folks who grew up on Neuromancer and Snow Crash, and thought that’s the world they would like to live in. They wanted an amusement park with dinosaurs and they’re about to find out exactly what that entails, with the rest of the world as set dressing,

          12 votes
      3. Plik
        Link Parent
        Musk is already used to his bodyguards taking him to the toilet...at Twitter. :/

        Musk is already used to his bodyguards taking him to the toilet...at Twitter.

        :/

    2. hobbes64
      Link Parent
      Someone sent me this link a little while ago. It’s a talk by socialist economist Richard Wolff about how the United States is a declining empire and how this is hidden from the American public and...

      Someone sent me this link a little while ago. It’s a talk by socialist economist Richard Wolff about how the United States is a declining empire and how this is hidden from the American public and exacerbated by the actions of the powerful:

      https://youtu.be/9u4A0D_Wc9c

      There’s a lot in the talk that is obvious, and a lot that I don’t agree with. But I think it is interesting and it explains a bit about why things are a certain way in the United States, and the motivations of the media and the politicians.

      For a while I was fascinated (and horrified) by the choice of the American voters. Why did they vote for Trump? Why do they ever vote for republicans? Why are they so easily manipulated to harm themselves while giving power to the unethical?

      But more recently I’ve been more interested in the motivations of the people in charge. Why are they so selfish and immoral? Is it mental illness? Is it nihilism? Is it all about class warfare? I don’t identify with the republicans at all, and I’ve been thinking about what Trump and the people around him really want. Is it just the surface level greed and evil that it seems to be, or does Trump (or Musk, or Ted Cruz, or any of those guys) think they are doing something good or useful?

      And the democrats. Does Pelosi or Schumer think they are making things better? Did the people around Biden really take billions of donor money and semi-intentionally lose an election to the worst candidate ever? Did Merrick Garland intentionally slow walk prosecution of sedition and fraud for political reasons, either to setup a supposed easy win for Biden, or simply to help Trump?

      Maybe someday we’ll know these things.

      13 votes
    3. Plik
      Link Parent
      Jamie Raskin is saying some good stuff...and actually vaguely talking about a plan which means there may be some hope. https://youtu.be/LtzTO4a83NY?si=XZEvQ8ntuHgEzwAM

      Jamie Raskin is saying some good stuff...and actually vaguely talking about a plan which means there may be some hope.

      https://youtu.be/LtzTO4a83NY?si=XZEvQ8ntuHgEzwAM

      3 votes
  2. krellor
    Link
    I'm sort of in the "all of the above" camp with the Democrats. I agree with the article that they weren't doing the right things, and I agree that their messaging on the things they did was bad...

    I'm sort of in the "all of the above" camp with the Democrats. I agree with the article that they weren't doing the right things, and I agree that their messaging on the things they did was bad and through rose tinted glasses. Jeffries is right though, in that the Democrats lost folks because people didn't see their pain reflected in the Democrats messaging.

    My biggest gripe at this moment is that these people seem to have abdicated their responsibility, or are just too inept to know what it is. The minimum they could do is generate the same kind of viral press that gives cover to people who are more exposed to retribution. The Democrats need to find a message that carries and compete with the Republican narratives in non traditional media.

    15 votes
  3. moocow1452
    Link
    I guess the question is how much are the Democrats allowing themselves to flip the table and jam up the gears to promote their own agenda, if they keep on saying that this is most serious business...

    I guess the question is how much are the Democrats allowing themselves to flip the table and jam up the gears to promote their own agenda, if they keep on saying that this is most serious business but also want to keep the governmental machine running because they’re not going to stoop to that level? For all the talk about messaging, there’s a difference between talking and walking that the Dems don’t like to cross, and if they don’t want to play hardball, are they more comfortable with being opposition that keeps their principles at the cost of results?

    What is the future of the Democratic Party now that demographics aren’t destiny anymore and they have to pick a lane?

    10 votes
  4. [2]
    Edes
    Link
    I honestly have no idea what Democrats are supposed to do other than what they're doing right now. Every time I see someone post about what they should be doing it's either something they can't do...

    I honestly have no idea what Democrats are supposed to do other than what they're doing right now. Every time I see someone post about what they should be doing it's either something they can't do or something abstract that they are doing, like "slow them down to a crawl" and "organize". Maybe everyone's media diet only consists of pundits that love shitting on the Democrats, it's the cool and fun thing to do, but maybe anyone who is worried about the future should try helping a bit letting everyone know that every bit of pain that we're feeling is the fault of republicans. Right now the goal should be to let the 200k people that got laid off yesterday know that it's the Republican's fault that they got fired, the goal should be that 0 federal workers vote Republican for the rest of their lives lest they get fired the next time they get a promotion. It makes me real mad that people like Mark Cuban are on bluesky asking Democrats to somehow negotiate with Republicans so the people that got fired get another month of severance instead of just asking the Republicans to consider how many lives are being unjustifiably ruined for what could be offset by a 1% tax. We just need to stop pretending that Republicans are an evil force of nature that's inevitable.

    10 votes
    1. JCPhoenix
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      If there's anything Democrats should be doing, it's gumming up the works. Come March 14, I want to see them NOT agree to another CR. NOT agree to a budget unless there are serious concessions....

      If there's anything Democrats should be doing, it's gumming up the works. Come March 14, I want to see them NOT agree to another CR. NOT agree to a budget unless there are serious concessions. Like protecting the federal workforce, among other things. And I say this as a federal employee who would be royally screwed with a prolonged shutdown and furlough. But it's necessary. Forget making sure the government works. Right now, the government needs to NOT work.

      But beyond that, what should Dems do? If action is impossible -- due to them not having control of any of the levers of power at the federal level -- then the issue really is messaging. Dem leaderships needs to be on the airwaves, on cable, on social media, just everywhere, screaming about whatever (ie everything) is messed up right now. Doesn't matter if it's actually Trump or Republicans that have caused it, just say it. Don't even talk about policy and how they'd fix it if/when Dems come back to power. If there's anything we've learned, people don't give a damn about policy. They just want ragebait and a vague promise of fixing the issue.

      Flood the egg shelves in grocery stores with those "Trump did that!" stickers. Put em on every gas pump. Keep talking about "President Musk." Is this childish? Absolutely. But that's apparently what American respond to. Childishness. If Americans are going to act like children and idiots, then treat them (us) that way. Because it apparently works.

      Sorry Michelle Obama, you were wrong. Terribly wrong. "When they go low, we go high," is utter bullshit. It sucks that it's come to this. But we can't keep living in this lala land of high-brow politics. We accuse MAGA of living in an alternate reality, but so do Dems. This is the reality we live in, where mudslinging, just down dirty lies, wins.

      11 votes