I agree. Now please tell the public official in the Oval office to stop doing the same thing in public every week, please, Mr. "Representative". At least this lawyer had the foresight to do this...
Coyner confirmed the authenticity of the exchange in a statement Friday evening, calling the remarks “disgusting and unbecoming of any public official.”
I agree. Now please tell the public official in the Oval office to stop doing the same thing in public every week, please, Mr. "Representative". At least this lawyer had the foresight to do this in private rather than in a public chat (or straight up on twitter)
Vance wrote on X, formerly Twitter. “I’m sure the people hyperventilating about sombrero memes will join me in calling for this very deranged person to drop out of the race.”
And this is the part that rubs me wrong. Instead of condemning all political violence, we try to downplay their threats as "memes" and say this is the worst thing ever. Nevermind their admin has been spilling potentially innocent blood as recently as this weekend.
There's not even much more to do here. He made texts 3 years ago, and apologized when some now political opponent outed him. He owned up to it, we all agree it was bad taste. What more is there to do?
It's a problem no matter who does it. Definitely more of a problem among Republicans than Democrats. Though if this is potentially becoming more common among the left, it's something that's worth...
It's a problem no matter who does it. Definitely more of a problem among Republicans than Democrats. Though if this is potentially becoming more common among the left, it's something that's worth taking note of.
If 3 year old private call leak for an otherwise non-violent individual is the most violent the left gets, then I'm not really too worried here. Meanwhile, my country's president is posting videos...
if this is potentially becoming more common among the left, it's something that's worth taking note of.
If 3 year old private call leak for an otherwise non-violent individual is the most violent the left gets, then I'm not really too worried here. Meanwhile, my country's president is posting videos literally shitting on his constituents and coverage says "what appears to be brown liquid".
Note that I'm coming back here after another democrat is trying to get smeared over 11 year old reddit comments and it's very weird how the legacy media is trying to act as if there's proportional coverage of these two events. That's my big concern as of late.
The man wished death on Gilbert's children and, when pressed on it, doubled down and said “Yes, I’ve told you this before. Only when people feel pain personally do they move on policy.”. I'm all...
The man wished death on Gilbert's children and, when pressed on it, doubled down and said “Yes, I’ve told you this before. Only when people feel pain personally do they move on policy.”. I'm all for sardonic humor, but this reflects a way of thinking that is quite concerning. Not at all trying to equate right's rhetoric as a whole with the left, but this is certainly newsworthy, particularly if it represents a trend among the left as politics becomes increasingly polarized.
Yeah, I think everyone is overlooking the bit about him wishing harm upon children. I get why he said it. I feel the same frustration he does and also feel they'll only change when their children...
Yeah, I think everyone is overlooking the bit about him wishing harm upon children.
I get why he said it. I feel the same frustration he does and also feel they'll only change when their children are victims. The frustration at their callous behavior and lack of empathy for the people they're supposed to represent and care about is so heavy.
But I've never gone as far as to wish death upon their children out loud.
Fantasizing about the politicians finally feeling the pain of thousands of other parents is one thing. But I would never actually wish for that happen and double down on it to another person. Saying it out loud can forever changes the way people look at you.
There's definitely a double standard at play with how the media over reports on Democrats for minor things, but him wishing death upon children—even if he was just venting and doesn't actually want that—is too far for my tastes.
Did he actually 'wish death upon them?' Did he call Tim directly and say 'I hope your whole family gets murdered?' Did he reach out on the internet to hope some patriot would come do that? No. He...
Did he actually 'wish death upon them?' Did he call Tim directly and say 'I hope your whole family gets murdered?' Did he reach out on the internet to hope some patriot would come do that?
No. He vented in the same way someone might yell "I'll fucking kill you you piece of shit" at a stranger who threw a brick through their window.
I get told I'll burn forever in evil torment for eternity for not going to church on the regular. Saying I wish the anti-vaxxer's kids die so they learn their lesson is objectively less monsterous than that..
Heck, I'll say it: Charlie Kirk's death was the most appropriate death the man could have. It makes me question the nonexistence of God.
Is that somehow wrong? Does that mean I wished death upon Charlie Kirk? No. It means I acknowledge the reality of what he put into the world and him suffering for it is evidence of a karmatic universe.
But I'm sure if the National Review were to cover me, they'd say I was jerking off while watching his murder video.
Which I am, but that's unrelated. And to be explicitly clear, that's my humor in action.
I don’t really see the equivalence between Jones making an Office reference and dehumanizing threats of open violence coming from the right. On a very broad “violence bad” line they’re in the same...
I don’t really see the equivalence between Jones making an Office reference and dehumanizing threats of open violence coming from the right. On a very broad “violence bad” line they’re in the same family of things but it’s like trying to draw a connection between training on a punching bag and knifing someone in the street.
It's some serious 'good people on both sides' false equivilencies. We have politicians calling other politicians the enemy within being broadcast to millions of screens on the regular. This is...
It's some serious 'good people on both sides' false equivilencies.
We have politicians calling other politicians the enemy within being broadcast to millions of screens on the regular. This is obviously the same as one politician cursing another one in private.
Yeah this is important to note. A private message to a colleague is not stochastic terrorism. But going up on TV and beaming dehumanizing and violent rhetoric at impressionable nutcases is. Jay...
Yeah this is important to note. A private message to a colleague is not stochastic terrorism. But going up on TV and beaming dehumanizing and violent rhetoric at impressionable nutcases is. Jay Jones’ texts make him a moron, primarily because he sent them to a Republican who he should have known would pocket it for later. But he was very obviously not trying to wind up random people to do violence against his enemies.
While tasteless, it's not like this is a new joke or anything (paging Michael Scott). Lacking further context doesnt help. But also..... Hey Republicans, turns out it does feel shitty when people...
While tasteless, it's not like this is a new joke or anything (paging Michael Scott). Lacking further context doesnt help. But also.....
Hey Republicans, turns out it does feel shitty when people threaten your life, even a jokey way. Maybe yall should cut that shit out too. Please and thank you.
Turns out they were the special snowflakes after all....not like this was equivalent to posting a video of automatic gunfire subtitled with 'Kill all Democrats.'
I'm going to be as brief as possible, as I don't want to turn this into a thesis paper which carefully breaks down the problems with sources like National Review. For one, they didn't link "the...
I'm going to be as brief as possible, as I don't want to turn this into a thesis paper which carefully breaks down the problems with sources like National Review.
For one, they didn't link "the texts." They linked the tiny damning portion of the text without providing proper context. First being that this is in August of 2022. About 3 months before the horrific Virginia Tech shooting. What was happening in the Virginia legislature at this time? Democrats were strengthing gun control laws and Republicans were trying to repeal them.
Was this a legitimate threat or call to violence, genuinely fantasizing about killing his whole family? No....that was National Review (and the sudden Republican upswing) editorializing. This was Jay Jones venting frustration about typical Republican policy stances: They only care about things that happen directly to them and their family.
The only way Todd Gilbert (and most other Republicans) would change his mind about gun control legislation is if his wife and family were murdered in a mass shooting. Anybody else, in the paraphrased words of their great hero Charlie Kirk, is an acceptable externality for maintaining a completely unregulated second amendment. Externalities that deserve 'thoughts and prayers,' but not actual policy changes to stop these deaths from being in vain.
Edit:
If this really was so bad, this would have been all over national news 3 years ago. Instead, it was archived, tagged with 'attack ad fodder', and brought forth at a politically convienient time to tank an election.
The inability - or unwillingness - to differentiate between a crude remark said in jest and clear signs of a deeper problem is extremely frustrating. First of all, I can't believe I had to go to...
The inability - or unwillingness - to differentiate between a crude remark said in jest and clear signs of a deeper problem is extremely frustrating. First of all, I can't believe I had to go to the National Review to get proper context for the quotes. The Mercury makes it seem like he was threatening to shoot Gilbert, but, as you pointed out, it's the punchline to a very common joke. It was said in frustration, but it's a far cry from being serious.
Jay Jones fantasizing about shooting then-House Speaker Todd Gilbert
In the texts, Jones described a scenario in which Gilbert “gets two bullets to the head,”
I mean come on. And the condemnation from other Democrats isn't helping anything. If you're not going to use it as an opportunity to reaffirm the position that the guy wont take gun violence seriously when it's someone else's kids, at least throw a 'clearly he wasn't serious' in your quote. Meanwhile, a slew of racist remarks from people who advocate for racist policies is met with, 'It's just jokes.' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It’s neither an “inability” nor an “unwillingness.” It’s an intentional effort to conflate obviously objectionable behavior with tactless behavior to minimize the negative impact of the former and...
It’s neither an “inability” nor an “unwillingness.” It’s an intentional effort to conflate obviously objectionable behavior with tactless behavior to minimize the negative impact of the former and exaggerate the nature of the latter.
This dynamic only ever goes one way. When Democrats do the latter there will be no grace. When Republicans do the former there will be infinite wells of contextualization.
This isn't a huge deal in the scheme of things, but the Virginia Tech shooting was in 2007. There was a shooting at UVA in 2022. It's extremely sad that these are frequent enough to be confused...
This isn't a huge deal in the scheme of things, but the Virginia Tech shooting was in 2007. There was a shooting at UVA in 2022.
It's extremely sad that these are frequent enough to be confused for one another.
You're right I mixed up the schools. Course there was also a shooting at VT (at the most popular hookah bar in the town that only exists for the college) in Feb of 2022 that left 5 dead. Turns out...
You're right I mixed up the schools. Course there was also a shooting at VT (at the most popular hookah bar in the town that only exists for the college) in Feb of 2022 that left 5 dead.
Turns out its never a bad time to enact more gun laws.
The National Review story revealed an August 2022 exchange between Jones — a former Norfolk delegate and one-time assistant attorney general — and Del. Carrie Coyner, R-Chesterfield.
...
In a statement Friday evening, Jones admitted sending the messages and said he takes “full responsibility” for his actions. He apologized directly to Todd Gilbert[, former Republican House Speaker,] and his family, and vowed to work to regain Virginians’ trust.
Jones: Three people, two bullets \ Gilbert, hitler, and pol pot \ Gilbert gets two bullets to the head \ Spoiler: put Gilbert in the crew with the two worst people you know and he receives both bullets every time
Coyner: Jay \ Please stop
Jones: Lol \ Ok, ok
Coyner: It really bothers me when you talk about hurting people or wishing death on them \ It isn’t ok \ No matter who they are
...
Rather than deny that he had wished death on the children, Jones responded by saying, “Yes, I’ve told you this before. Only when people feel pain personally do they move on policy.”
I agree. Now please tell the public official in the Oval office to stop doing the same thing in public every week, please, Mr. "Representative". At least this lawyer had the foresight to do this in private rather than in a public chat (or straight up on twitter)
And this is the part that rubs me wrong. Instead of condemning all political violence, we try to downplay their threats as "memes" and say this is the worst thing ever. Nevermind their admin has been spilling potentially innocent blood as recently as this weekend.
There's not even much more to do here. He made texts 3 years ago, and apologized when some now political opponent outed him. He owned up to it, we all agree it was bad taste. What more is there to do?
It's a problem no matter who does it. Definitely more of a problem among Republicans than Democrats. Though if this is potentially becoming more common among the left, it's something that's worth taking note of.
If 3 year old private call leak for an otherwise non-violent individual is the most violent the left gets, then I'm not really too worried here. Meanwhile, my country's president is posting videos literally shitting on his constituents and coverage says "what appears to be brown liquid".
Note that I'm coming back here after another democrat is trying to get smeared over 11 year old reddit comments and it's very weird how the legacy media is trying to act as if there's proportional coverage of these two events. That's my big concern as of late.
The man wished death on Gilbert's children and, when pressed on it, doubled down and said “Yes, I’ve told you this before. Only when people feel pain personally do they move on policy.”. I'm all for sardonic humor, but this reflects a way of thinking that is quite concerning. Not at all trying to equate right's rhetoric as a whole with the left, but this is certainly newsworthy, particularly if it represents a trend among the left as politics becomes increasingly polarized.
Yeah, I think everyone is overlooking the bit about him wishing harm upon children.
I get why he said it. I feel the same frustration he does and also feel they'll only change when their children are victims. The frustration at their callous behavior and lack of empathy for the people they're supposed to represent and care about is so heavy.
But I've never gone as far as to wish death upon their children out loud.
Fantasizing about the politicians finally feeling the pain of thousands of other parents is one thing. But I would never actually wish for that happen and double down on it to another person. Saying it out loud can forever changes the way people look at you.
There's definitely a double standard at play with how the media over reports on Democrats for minor things, but him wishing death upon children—even if he was just venting and doesn't actually want that—is too far for my tastes.
Did he actually 'wish death upon them?' Did he call Tim directly and say 'I hope your whole family gets murdered?' Did he reach out on the internet to hope some patriot would come do that?
No. He vented in the same way someone might yell "I'll fucking kill you you piece of shit" at a stranger who threw a brick through their window.
I get told I'll burn forever in evil torment for eternity for not going to church on the regular. Saying I wish the anti-vaxxer's kids die so they learn their lesson is objectively less monsterous than that..
Heck, I'll say it: Charlie Kirk's death was the most appropriate death the man could have. It makes me question the nonexistence of God.
Is that somehow wrong? Does that mean I wished death upon Charlie Kirk? No. It means I acknowledge the reality of what he put into the world and him suffering for it is evidence of a karmatic universe.
But I'm sure if the National Review were to cover me, they'd say I was jerking off while watching his murder video.
Which I am, but that's unrelated. And to be explicitly clear, that's my humor in action.
I don’t really see the equivalence between Jones making an Office reference and dehumanizing threats of open violence coming from the right. On a very broad “violence bad” line they’re in the same family of things but it’s like trying to draw a connection between training on a punching bag and knifing someone in the street.
It's some serious 'good people on both sides' false equivilencies.
We have politicians calling other politicians the enemy within being broadcast to millions of screens on the regular. This is obviously the same as one politician cursing another one in private.
Yeah this is important to note. A private message to a colleague is not stochastic terrorism. But going up on TV and beaming dehumanizing and violent rhetoric at impressionable nutcases is. Jay Jones’ texts make him a moron, primarily because he sent them to a Republican who he should have known would pocket it for later. But he was very obviously not trying to wind up random people to do violence against his enemies.
While tasteless, it's not like this is a new joke or anything (paging Michael Scott). Lacking further context doesnt help. But also.....
Hey Republicans, turns out it does feel shitty when people threaten your life, even a jokey way. Maybe yall should cut that shit out too. Please and thank you.
Turns out they were the special snowflakes after all....not like this was equivalent to posting a video of automatic gunfire subtitled with 'Kill all Democrats.'
I think this goes far beyond tasteless. Plenty of context is provided between the two articles I linked.
I'm going to be as brief as possible, as I don't want to turn this into a thesis paper which carefully breaks down the problems with sources like National Review.
For one, they didn't link "the texts." They linked the tiny damning portion of the text without providing proper context. First being that this is in August of 2022. About 3 months before the horrific Virginia Tech shooting. What was happening in the Virginia legislature at this time? Democrats were strengthing gun control laws and Republicans were trying to repeal them.
Was this a legitimate threat or call to violence, genuinely fantasizing about killing his whole family? No....that was National Review (and the sudden Republican upswing) editorializing. This was Jay Jones venting frustration about typical Republican policy stances: They only care about things that happen directly to them and their family.
The only way Todd Gilbert (and most other Republicans) would change his mind about gun control legislation is if his wife and family were murdered in a mass shooting. Anybody else, in the paraphrased words of their great hero Charlie Kirk, is an acceptable externality for maintaining a completely unregulated second amendment. Externalities that deserve 'thoughts and prayers,' but not actual policy changes to stop these deaths from being in vain.
Edit:
If this really was so bad, this would have been all over national news 3 years ago. Instead, it was archived, tagged with 'attack ad fodder', and brought forth at a politically convienient time to tank an election.
The inability - or unwillingness - to differentiate between a crude remark said in jest and clear signs of a deeper problem is extremely frustrating. First of all, I can't believe I had to go to the National Review to get proper context for the quotes. The Mercury makes it seem like he was threatening to shoot Gilbert, but, as you pointed out, it's the punchline to a very common joke. It was said in frustration, but it's a far cry from being serious.
I mean come on. And the condemnation from other Democrats isn't helping anything. If you're not going to use it as an opportunity to reaffirm the position that the guy wont take gun violence seriously when it's someone else's kids, at least throw a 'clearly he wasn't serious' in your quote. Meanwhile, a slew of racist remarks from people who advocate for racist policies is met with, 'It's just jokes.' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It’s neither an “inability” nor an “unwillingness.” It’s an intentional effort to conflate obviously objectionable behavior with tactless behavior to minimize the negative impact of the former and exaggerate the nature of the latter.
This dynamic only ever goes one way. When Democrats do the latter there will be no grace. When Republicans do the former there will be infinite wells of contextualization.
Seriously. The Democrats should be countering with "Who's the fragile snowflake now? Losers can't even take a joke."
This isn't a huge deal in the scheme of things, but the Virginia Tech shooting was in 2007. There was a shooting at UVA in 2022.
It's extremely sad that these are frequent enough to be confused for one another.
You're right I mixed up the schools. Course there was also a shooting at VT (at the most popular hookah bar in the town that only exists for the college) in Feb of 2022 that left 5 dead.
Turns out its never a bad time to enact more gun laws.
Direct link to the texts (archive link).