It's almost exactly two years since his death. I'm curious why this information is coming out now. Read the article but maybe I missed it? Did they just test it now? Did they know before and are...
It's almost exactly two years since his death. I'm curious why this information is coming out now. Read the article but maybe I missed it? Did they just test it now? Did they know before and are just releasing it now? Does it just take that long to test for these sorts of toxins (I really have no clue).
Anyways, his death really stayed with me at the time. As someone who studied/studies a lot of history, it's always strange to be reminded that the things you read about that feel like distant memories of the past, like war and slavery and the purging of political dissidents, are actually still going on regularly with absolutely no end in sight.
I still vividly remember his phone call with the agent who poisoned him where he pretended to be the guy's higher up and was grilling him about why he fucked up the assassination, and getting the guy to explain exactly how he carried out the poisoning (the whole toxin in the underwear thing). Crazy stuff.
At the time when he turned himself in I really hoped his imprisonment (and eventual execution) would lead to some lasting change, but it seems that was not the case sadly. A real-life martyr if I've ever seen one.
I wonder if they could detect he was poisoned based on physical symptoms, but wanted to determine which poison it was exactly before making a definitive announcement? Harder for Russia to deflect...
I wonder if they could detect he was poisoned based on physical symptoms, but wanted to determine which poison it was exactly before making a definitive announcement? Harder for Russia to deflect responsibility when they can't even name the exact poison. I suspect poison dart frogs' neurotoxins aren't part of the typical screening process. This may be the first time I've heard of an actual murder committed with their toxins (at least, outside locals in their native regions using their toxins to coat weapons).
Thinking about it, the announcement also serves as a subtle warning to Russia that they will know to test for that specifically in the future. So, Russia is unlikely to use it again since it will be a dead giveaway given how unusual it is. Seriously, have there been any other murders or assassinations with this? Search results so far just bring up the generic "these frogs' poison is very deadly" articles or mentions of the show High Potential using it in one episode.
I went down the rabbit hole and it turns out that it's not that hard to detect dart frog toxins analytically if you suspect them. I'm guessing there was a long process of ruling out other...
I went down the rabbit hole and it turns out that it's not that hard to detect dart frog toxins analytically if you suspect them. I'm guessing there was a long process of ruling out other neurotoxins first.
There's another important corollary to the use of dart frog poison. You can't get it from frogs bred or held for very long in captivity. Wild dart frogs concentrate the toxins from their diet in their skin. So either Russia is collecting wild dart frogs (conspicuous), or they're doing chemical warfare research and synthesizing dart frog toxins. We already know, from the existence of novichok, that they've been coming up with novel nerve agents, and the frog toxin use is further evidence that they're a rogue actor violating international bans. Which is why the OP article mentions this:
The five countries said they were reporting Russia to the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons for a breach of the Chemical Weapons Convention. There was no immediate comment from the organization.
I really don't think Russia worries about the West discovering stuff like this. On the contrary, I honestly expect Putin et al, chose this poison explicitly because it was a cool, exotic way to...
I really don't think Russia worries about the West discovering stuff like this. On the contrary, I honestly expect Putin et al, chose this poison explicitly because it was a cool, exotic way to kill someone, knowing full well that it would eventually come out.
Russia actually benefits from the world knowing that they're perfectly willing to poison "enemies of the State", anywhere on Earth, and fuck the consequences.
I still vividly remember his phone call with the agent who poisoned him where he pretended to be the guy's higher up and was grilling him about why he fucked up the assassination, and getting the guy to explain exactly how he carried out the poisoning (the whole toxin in the underwear thing).
That was a prior poisoning. Here's the Wikipedia page, and the section "Telephone conversation with an FSB agent" details a phone call Navalny himself made to an operative involved with it, while...
That was a prior poisoning. Here's the Wikipedia page, and the section "Telephone conversation with an FSB agent" details a phone call Navalny himself made to an operative involved with it, while posing as someone else, to get him to confess. Pretty crazy stuff, I forgot about that phone call.
Yup someone else posted the wiki page, here is a BBC clip on it. It's basically exactly what it sounds like. He called up the dude who poisoned him, spoofing his number to pretend to be one of the...
Yup someone else posted the wiki page, here is a BBC clip on it.
It's basically exactly what it sounds like. He called up the dude who poisoned him, spoofing his number to pretend to be one of the guy's superiors, and practically interrogated the guy on why he failed his mission, getting both a confession as well as the details of the failed assassination in the process (at the time they did not know how the poison was applied).
Like imagine you're a hired assassin, you fail to kill a guy, and then your boss's boss calls you and asks you how you managed to fuck it up. You then explain to him how you went about doing it and why you failed your mission. Except unbeknownst to you it's not your boss's boss on the other line, it's the guy you tried to kill. Sounds like something right out of a Hollywood spy thriller.
Well there's a full video posted by Navalny himself with English subtitles (turn on youtube subs) if you'd rather see that than the summaries that others have posted. It is quite worth a watch.
Well there's a full video posted by Navalny himself with English subtitles (turn on youtube subs) if you'd rather see that than the summaries that others have posted. It is quite worth a watch.
Maybe someone here has a better idea why Navalny was killed? I remember the high-profile novichok attempt in 2020, but it looks like he went through years of legal proceedings and imprisonment...
Maybe someone here has a better idea why Navalny was killed? I remember the high-profile novichok attempt in 2020, but it looks like he went through years of legal proceedings and imprisonment afterwards.
The article claims Russia had a motive for killing him, but I don't understand it really. If they were going to assassinate him, why did they wait three years and ship him across the country first?
My assumption would've been the FSB wanted to make it look like natural causes, but they're quite infamous for their obvious poisonings.
It's almost exactly two years since his death. I'm curious why this information is coming out now. Read the article but maybe I missed it? Did they just test it now? Did they know before and are just releasing it now? Does it just take that long to test for these sorts of toxins (I really have no clue).
Anyways, his death really stayed with me at the time. As someone who studied/studies a lot of history, it's always strange to be reminded that the things you read about that feel like distant memories of the past, like war and slavery and the purging of political dissidents, are actually still going on regularly with absolutely no end in sight.
I still vividly remember his phone call with the agent who poisoned him where he pretended to be the guy's higher up and was grilling him about why he fucked up the assassination, and getting the guy to explain exactly how he carried out the poisoning (the whole toxin in the underwear thing). Crazy stuff.
At the time when he turned himself in I really hoped his imprisonment (and eventual execution) would lead to some lasting change, but it seems that was not the case sadly. A real-life martyr if I've ever seen one.
Yeah not much detail given there
I wonder if they could detect he was poisoned based on physical symptoms, but wanted to determine which poison it was exactly before making a definitive announcement? Harder for Russia to deflect responsibility when they can't even name the exact poison. I suspect poison dart frogs' neurotoxins aren't part of the typical screening process. This may be the first time I've heard of an actual murder committed with their toxins (at least, outside locals in their native regions using their toxins to coat weapons).
Thinking about it, the announcement also serves as a subtle warning to Russia that they will know to test for that specifically in the future. So, Russia is unlikely to use it again since it will be a dead giveaway given how unusual it is. Seriously, have there been any other murders or assassinations with this? Search results so far just bring up the generic "these frogs' poison is very deadly" articles or mentions of the show High Potential using it in one episode.
I went down the rabbit hole and it turns out that it's not that hard to detect dart frog toxins analytically if you suspect them. I'm guessing there was a long process of ruling out other neurotoxins first.
There's another important corollary to the use of dart frog poison. You can't get it from frogs bred or held for very long in captivity. Wild dart frogs concentrate the toxins from their diet in their skin. So either Russia is collecting wild dart frogs (conspicuous), or they're doing chemical warfare research and synthesizing dart frog toxins. We already know, from the existence of novichok, that they've been coming up with novel nerve agents, and the frog toxin use is further evidence that they're a rogue actor violating international bans. Which is why the OP article mentions this:
More news.
I really don't think Russia worries about the West discovering stuff like this. On the contrary, I honestly expect Putin et al, chose this poison explicitly because it was a cool, exotic way to kill someone, knowing full well that it would eventually come out.
Russia actually benefits from the world knowing that they're perfectly willing to poison "enemies of the State", anywhere on Earth, and fuck the consequences.
???
That was a prior poisoning. Here's the Wikipedia page, and the section "Telephone conversation with an FSB agent" details a phone call Navalny himself made to an operative involved with it, while posing as someone else, to get him to confess. Pretty crazy stuff, I forgot about that phone call.
Yup someone else posted the wiki page, here is a BBC clip on it.
It's basically exactly what it sounds like. He called up the dude who poisoned him, spoofing his number to pretend to be one of the guy's superiors, and practically interrogated the guy on why he failed his mission, getting both a confession as well as the details of the failed assassination in the process (at the time they did not know how the poison was applied).
Like imagine you're a hired assassin, you fail to kill a guy, and then your boss's boss calls you and asks you how you managed to fuck it up. You then explain to him how you went about doing it and why you failed your mission. Except unbeknownst to you it's not your boss's boss on the other line, it's the guy you tried to kill. Sounds like something right out of a Hollywood spy thriller.
Well there's a full video posted by Navalny himself with English subtitles (turn on youtube subs) if you'd rather see that than the summaries that others have posted. It is quite worth a watch.
Maybe someone here has a better idea why Navalny was killed? I remember the high-profile novichok attempt in 2020, but it looks like he went through years of legal proceedings and imprisonment afterwards.
The article claims Russia had a motive for killing him, but I don't understand it really. If they were going to assassinate him, why did they wait three years and ship him across the country first?
My assumption would've been the FSB wanted to make it look like natural causes, but they're quite infamous for their obvious poisonings.