https://archive.is/zx7ye From the article: ... ... ... ... From what I've read it's not a good place to work, so perhaps fewer people working there is for the best?
Now some 75% of Amazon’s global deliveries are assisted in some way by robotics, the company said. The growing automation has helped Amazon improve productivity, while easing pressure on the company to solve problems such as heavy staff turnover at its fulfillment centers.
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Robots are also supplanting some employees, helping the company to slow hiring. Amazon employs about 1.56 million people overall, with the majority working in warehouses.
The average number of employees Amazon had per facility last year, roughly 670, was the lowest recorded in the past 16 years, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis, which compared the company’s reported workforce with estimates of its facility count.
The number of packages that Amazon ships itself per employee each year has also steadily increased since at least 2015 to about 3,870 from about 175, the analysis found, an indication of the company’s productivity gains.
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Amazon is also rolling out artificial intelligence in its warehouses, Chief Executive Andy Jassy said recently, “to improve inventory placement, demand forecasting, and the efficiency of our robots.” Amazon said it will cut the size of its total workforce in the next several years.
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Early on, robots moved large amounts of unpackaged items, a physically difficult task for a human to do. Over time, the machines began taking on even more challenging assignments, such as packaging, sorting products and lifting heavy items.
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Amazon has trained more than 700,000 workers across the world for higher-paying jobs that can include working with robotics, the company said.
From what I've read it's not a good place to work, so perhaps fewer people working there is for the best?
This is almost an obligatory comment for post like these at this point, but I'll take one for the team and make it this time. Automation like this is great. It is what we as a species should...
This is almost an obligatory comment for post like these at this point, but I'll take one for the team and make it this time.
Automation like this is great. It is what we as a species should strive for.
But the way our current society is structured. With the strong coupling of work == status, work == livelihood, work == fulfilment, work == self-worth, this type of automation is a disaster for everyone that will lose their jobs over it.
I would strike self-worth, status, and fulfillment from the list. The real problems are housing, food, or other base needs. It’s relatively easy to learn to have fun doing things outside of work...
I would strike self-worth, status, and fulfillment from the list. The real problems are housing, food, or other base needs. It’s relatively easy to learn to have fun doing things outside of work if you have the time. People can learn new philosophies on where happiness and self worth come from. But if you don’t eat you die. If you live an insecure life you’ll get sick.
Yes thank you for the remark. I was doubting if I should have included them. I believe they are relevant in our current format of society, though I cannot quite classify in what way they are...
Yes thank you for the remark. I was doubting if I should have included them. I believe they are relevant in our current format of society, though I cannot quite classify in what way they are different (other than not being life essentials)
Perhaps cause and effect are reversed? People would object to a UBI because the capitalistic system offers them a way to be 'better' than their peers? I can't quite put my feeling into words here
I'd say that people need a way to be better than their peers. Humans are intensely competitive for status. There's also the unresolved question of deciding who gets which scarce luxuries. Everyone...
People would object to a UBI because the capitalistic system offers them a way to be 'better' than their peers?
I'd say that people need a way to be better than their peers. Humans are intensely competitive for status.
There's also the unresolved question of deciding who gets which scarce luxuries. Everyone would love to live in paradisiacal places like Santa Barbara, the Côte d'Azur, or the Hawaiian islands. But there's not enough of those places to go around, so you need a system in which people can compete for them.
I'm inclined to agree that this sort of automation is what we should arrive for but I feel its also misplaced automation. Our consumerism has lead to it and in doing so put people out if work. We...
I'm inclined to agree that this sort of automation is what we should arrive for but I feel its also misplaced automation. Our consumerism has lead to it and in doing so put people out if work. We have made the same/next day delivery that forces this to happen.
The YouTuber andrewism made a video about "a library of things". In this world corporations like amazon need not exist because we all have access to the stuff we need.
That's a great video. When I was in my younger, hippy-lite, living-in-co-ops phase, I was really into the idea of a library economy. I lived in a cluster of co-ops where we shared things. But I...
That's a great video. When I was in my younger, hippy-lite, living-in-co-ops phase, I was really into the idea of a library economy. I lived in a cluster of co-ops where we shared things.
But I think that one problem that's difficult to solve at scale is trust. Truth is: significant % of the population can't be trusted. You loan them something and you get it back damaged (beyond wear and tear) or dirty or a month late. There's also a significant labor component in running a library: keeping track of who has what, checking what condition things get returned in, seeing what needs repair or replacement, and so on. The labor-to-productivity ratio is kinda whack, so it's only really viable if the librarian doesn't value their time much, i.e. an idealistic communitarian willing to give their labor away for effectively below minimum wage.
The dynamics could work in East Asian societies though which have communitarian attitudes that respect communal property. I often envy how Singaporeans can just leave their phones/wallets to reserve a table while they use the restroom.
Yea the premise only works if we as a society change the way we value and respect our fellow human. So as much as I think the idea is good its a product of a society that has totally restructured....
Yea the premise only works if we as a society change the way we value and respect our fellow human. So as much as I think the idea is good its a product of a society that has totally restructured. I can't remember if the video addressed the issues you raised about damages or late returns but I'm sure there would be penalties for this.
Also the idea that the librarian/librarian would work for below minimum wage seems like capitalist thinking. I try to imagine my utopia without the constraints of capitalist constraints of wages. Its difficult but I find it to be a fun thought experiment.
Um its early and iv just had my morning cup of java so im not ready to wade into the intricacies of utopian living haha. I'm also not great at expressing these sorts of ideas over text. Although I am glad you watched the video. Have a nice day
Amazon is super convenient for oddly specific items like getting a wider handlebar for my bike or replacing a broken bracket. There are other places that sell what I need, but their customer...
Amazon is super convenient for oddly specific items like getting a wider handlebar for my bike or replacing a broken bracket. There are other places that sell what I need, but their customer service is massively better in all my experiences.
Getting something next day is often important, but they also offer incentives for choosing slower shipping. I don't think it's just rampant consumerism where people have been duped into using Amazon due to deceptive advertising (unlike Temu, Shein, etc).
Yes, losing your job involuntarily is a terrible experience! But note that "fewer people" doesn't necessarily mean people losing their jobs. Turnover is pretty high in Amazon's warehouses, so they...
Yes, losing your job involuntarily is a terrible experience! But note that "fewer people" doesn't necessarily mean people losing their jobs. Turnover is pretty high in Amazon's warehouses, so they could slow down hiring instead, compared to what they would otherwise. That would be the loss of hypothetical jobs for would-be applicants. Maybe it takes them longer to find work, but with no specific employer to blame?
So for individuals, it's different tradeoff: take a job at Amazon packing boxes, or try to find a better job? What if Amazon warehouse jobs are harder to come by?
Compare with how political manufacturing jobs are. Will there be politicians who want to "bring back" warehouse jobs to make America great again?
I feel the same way about ride-sharing apps (or, as we used to call them before the Business Idiots rebranded... taxis). The work seems exhausting. Sitting down in a car for many hours a day,...
I feel the same way about ride-sharing apps (or, as we used to call them before the Business Idiots rebranded... taxis). The work seems exhausting. Sitting down in a car for many hours a day, unable to get up and stretch at all, is awful for you. Just finding a place to go to the bathroom seems like a big obstacle. And with the 'gig economy', a lot of people severely underestimate their personal costs in terms of wear and tear and unpaid time between rides, leading people to think they're making a lot more money than they really are. We are probably better off if all of those jobs get automated away.
But as other commenters point out: the more entry-level jobs you automate, the fewer jobs there are for folks who aren't interested in a career (for whatever reason). We did the same thing to housing when we got rid of halfway houses, the same thing to food service when we lost cafeterias and automats, and the same thing to transportation when we made it impossible to walk to most places in the USA. You can eliminate the bottom of a lot of industries, but if you do that, you need to simultaneously lift up everyone so nobody is left behind. If you kill the halfway house, everyone needs to get on leases for apartments as a bare minimum. If you kill walkability, everyone needs to buy a car.
You only have to visit the entire West Coast of the United States to see what happens when you leave people behind. They don't just disappear.
https://archive.is/zx7ye
From the article:
...
...
...
...
From what I've read it's not a good place to work, so perhaps fewer people working there is for the best?
This is almost an obligatory comment for post like these at this point, but I'll take one for the team and make it this time.
Automation like this is great. It is what we as a species should strive for.
But the way our current society is structured. With the strong coupling of work == status, work == livelihood, work == fulfilment, work == self-worth, this type of automation is a disaster for everyone that will lose their jobs over it.
I would strike self-worth, status, and fulfillment from the list. The real problems are housing, food, or other base needs. It’s relatively easy to learn to have fun doing things outside of work if you have the time. People can learn new philosophies on where happiness and self worth come from. But if you don’t eat you die. If you live an insecure life you’ll get sick.
Yes thank you for the remark. I was doubting if I should have included them. I believe they are relevant in our current format of society, though I cannot quite classify in what way they are different (other than not being life essentials)
Perhaps cause and effect are reversed? People would object to a UBI because the capitalistic system offers them a way to be 'better' than their peers? I can't quite put my feeling into words here
I'd say that people need a way to be better than their peers. Humans are intensely competitive for status.
There's also the unresolved question of deciding who gets which scarce luxuries. Everyone would love to live in paradisiacal places like Santa Barbara, the Côte d'Azur, or the Hawaiian islands. But there's not enough of those places to go around, so you need a system in which people can compete for them.
I'm inclined to agree that this sort of automation is what we should arrive for but I feel its also misplaced automation. Our consumerism has lead to it and in doing so put people out if work. We have made the same/next day delivery that forces this to happen.
The YouTuber andrewism made a video about "a library of things". In this world corporations like amazon need not exist because we all have access to the stuff we need.
That's a great video. When I was in my younger, hippy-lite, living-in-co-ops phase, I was really into the idea of a library economy. I lived in a cluster of co-ops where we shared things.
But I think that one problem that's difficult to solve at scale is trust. Truth is: significant % of the population can't be trusted. You loan them something and you get it back damaged (beyond wear and tear) or dirty or a month late. There's also a significant labor component in running a library: keeping track of who has what, checking what condition things get returned in, seeing what needs repair or replacement, and so on. The labor-to-productivity ratio is kinda whack, so it's only really viable if the librarian doesn't value their time much, i.e. an idealistic communitarian willing to give their labor away for effectively below minimum wage.
The dynamics could work in East Asian societies though which have communitarian attitudes that respect communal property. I often envy how Singaporeans can just leave their phones/wallets to reserve a table while they use the restroom.
Yea the premise only works if we as a society change the way we value and respect our fellow human. So as much as I think the idea is good its a product of a society that has totally restructured. I can't remember if the video addressed the issues you raised about damages or late returns but I'm sure there would be penalties for this.
Also the idea that the librarian/librarian would work for below minimum wage seems like capitalist thinking. I try to imagine my utopia without the constraints of capitalist constraints of wages. Its difficult but I find it to be a fun thought experiment.
Um its early and iv just had my morning cup of java so im not ready to wade into the intricacies of utopian living haha. I'm also not great at expressing these sorts of ideas over text. Although I am glad you watched the video. Have a nice day
Amazon is super convenient for oddly specific items like getting a wider handlebar for my bike or replacing a broken bracket. There are other places that sell what I need, but their customer service is massively better in all my experiences.
Getting something next day is often important, but they also offer incentives for choosing slower shipping. I don't think it's just rampant consumerism where people have been duped into using Amazon due to deceptive advertising (unlike Temu, Shein, etc).
Yes, losing your job involuntarily is a terrible experience! But note that "fewer people" doesn't necessarily mean people losing their jobs. Turnover is pretty high in Amazon's warehouses, so they could slow down hiring instead, compared to what they would otherwise. That would be the loss of hypothetical jobs for would-be applicants. Maybe it takes them longer to find work, but with no specific employer to blame?
So for individuals, it's different tradeoff: take a job at Amazon packing boxes, or try to find a better job? What if Amazon warehouse jobs are harder to come by?
Compare with how political manufacturing jobs are. Will there be politicians who want to "bring back" warehouse jobs to make America great again?
I feel the same way about ride-sharing apps (or, as we used to call them before the Business Idiots rebranded... taxis). The work seems exhausting. Sitting down in a car for many hours a day, unable to get up and stretch at all, is awful for you. Just finding a place to go to the bathroom seems like a big obstacle. And with the 'gig economy', a lot of people severely underestimate their personal costs in terms of wear and tear and unpaid time between rides, leading people to think they're making a lot more money than they really are. We are probably better off if all of those jobs get automated away.
But as other commenters point out: the more entry-level jobs you automate, the fewer jobs there are for folks who aren't interested in a career (for whatever reason). We did the same thing to housing when we got rid of halfway houses, the same thing to food service when we lost cafeterias and automats, and the same thing to transportation when we made it impossible to walk to most places in the USA. You can eliminate the bottom of a lot of industries, but if you do that, you need to simultaneously lift up everyone so nobody is left behind. If you kill the halfway house, everyone needs to get on leases for apartments as a bare minimum. If you kill walkability, everyone needs to buy a car.
You only have to visit the entire West Coast of the United States to see what happens when you leave people behind. They don't just disappear.