Basically, Youtube is implementing their own version of Patreon in-house. Makes sense from a business standpoint, but will likely lead to even more clickbait.
Basically, Youtube is implementing their own version of Patreon in-house.
Makes sense from a business standpoint, but will likely lead to even more clickbait.
Huh, I never really noticed that until now. I wonder what they will next copy. Maybe they'll try and rip off reddit's commenting system? It would be fun to see the tildes equivalent of...
YouTube's business model is constantly adding in new features 3 steps behind all of their competitors.
Huh, I never really noticed that until now. I wonder what they will next copy. Maybe they'll try and rip off reddit's commenting system?
or I can very likely see a new competitor stepping into the ring. (Be it PornHub or a very ambitious startup.)
It would be fun to see the tildes equivalent of Youtube/Imgur. Donation driven, no ads, privacy respecting. Of course, since not even Google can run at a profit with their massive market share, such a site would be all but impossible. The hosting costs would be astronomical. And how would content creators get paid?
You're probably right that Pornhub has the potential to make a video hosting site. They've got the infrastructure, the community manager has considered it, and they already have a SFW section. On the other hand, the Network Effect likely will keep people locked into Youtube for a long long time, regardless of alternatives.
Holy shit this is one of the longest posts I've ever made on the internet and it's about fucking YouTube. Wow.
If I could gild or post this on r/bestof I would. Extremely high effort.
I don't even know how something will be able to topple youtube. In its current form it's just pissing away money because of how massive the infrastructure is. Any company capable of taking over...
I don't even know how something will be able to topple youtube. In its current form it's just pissing away money because of how massive the infrastructure is. Any company capable of taking over would have to already have some foundation set up, because there's no way that you can just scratchbuild a video platform like that.
I wonder if that's why Youtube just sorta steamrolls the updates and refuses to communicate/telegraph their moves. They know they can get away with it because there's no competitors on the horizon.
Do you think someone would be able to just create a competitor out of thin air, or would they need to get clever about utilizing/co-opting existing infrastructure and getting creative with p2p?
They'd have to get clever. Or the landscape of "internet" and it's providers (ISPs) will have to drastically change. Google is already running Youtube "cheaply". They save on data costs by owning...
They'd have to get clever. Or the landscape of "internet" and it's providers (ISPs) will have to drastically change. Google is already running Youtube "cheaply". They save on data costs by owning fiber, having the leverage to negotiate where they don't own it, and by running their own ultra-redundant, ultra-cheap, pioneering data centers. They save on ad costs because they are themselves the ad provider, other sites have to pay a middleman, like GoogleAds. Even with Youtube running about as cheaply as possible, it's still 3-4 times more expensive (data costs alone), than anything they bring in through ad revenue.
You're missing another alternative; self-hosting in a Wordpress-style ecosystem. Anyone can easily hook up payments and post videos on Wordpress; with a federated platform like PeerTube. I think...
You're missing another alternative; self-hosting in a Wordpress-style ecosystem. Anyone can easily hook up payments and post videos on Wordpress; with a federated platform like PeerTube.
I think that's what ends up toppling these giants. Federated video with a market of developers and designers who will build more integrations and design better/easier interfaces.
I went to the Log-out conference and someone was suggesting building an alternative to the Amazon Mechanical Turk platform that rewards the workers with higher pay and the people submitting...
As a young web developer it's honestly my dream to build up the thing to take over YouTube. Though that goal be a LOFTY sumbitch.
I went to the Log-out conference and someone was suggesting building an alternative to the Amazon Mechanical Turk platform that rewards the workers with higher pay and the people submitting requests to the workers with higher quality (it sucks to submit 1 item 10 times in the hope that at least one person returns decent quality work).
Who wouldn't want to be part of that mission? To take down one of part of Amazon's vast empire? You get to be the Rebel Alliance conspiring against the Empire! That is an exciting mission and it sure beats the typical startup's plan to sell out to the Empire (whether it's Google, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook or whoever).
I have absolutely noticed this change, even in blindingly simple cases e.g., the filed copyright claim is for a song from a particular date, but the title of the the video, the description, and...
the YouTube algorithm seemed to take on a new evolution wherein it became hyper-sensitive to copyright claims. If your video featured just too much of a copyrighted song, just too much of someone else's content, or worse - in some cases, even if you have prior permission from the copyright owner or you are the owner yourself, the algorithm often doesn't notice or doesn't take this into account and will continue to strike your account anyway
I have absolutely noticed this change, even in blindingly simple cases e.g., the filed copyright claim is for a song from a particular date, but the title of the the video, the description, and everything about the video details a different date! It's like a shotgun aimed at anything you upload, and the only choice is to file a somewhat incredulous appeal and hope for the best.
That change occurred in tandem with the mass demonetization in response to a couple of ad providers pulling their ads because of the Pewdiepie story and ensuing "investigation" (which consisted of...
That change occurred in tandem with the mass demonetization in response to a couple of ad providers pulling their ads because of the Pewdiepie story and ensuing "investigation" (which consisted of journalists searching for ultra-racist videos and refreshing the page until an ad played on the video). Like Reddit, Youtube is tripping over itself and alienating the users that drive the content of the site by increasingly pandering to advertisers.
Just barely. They were pretty quickly bought out by Google (September 06, about a year and a half after it was launched). I believe by the time Google stepped in, Youtube's bandwidth costs were...
Just barely. They were pretty quickly bought out by Google (September 06, about a year and a half after it was launched). I believe by the time Google stepped in, Youtube's bandwidth costs were around $2 million/month and the only sources of income were ads, deals with copyright holders, and venture capital. If YouTube wasn't bought by someone with the cash and infrastructure Google had, it likely wouldn't exist today, either due to insurmountable data costs, or insurmountable lawsuits.
Your post isn't just about YouTube; it's about the underlying engine that runs the platform. They've come up with a system, with an engine that drives views of videos and rewards creators....
Your post isn't just about YouTube; it's about the underlying engine that runs the platform. They've come up with a system, with an engine that drives views of videos and rewards creators. Annnnnnnd then they fucked it up because they have no idea what they've actually built and their motives are skewed. When you're running the platform as a business, you're a middleman, a facilitator looking to get your cut.
YouTube should be run like an infrastructure project (my personal opinion is they should be a co-operative with the creators' mission at their centre). If they're infrastructure, like Linux, the GNU tools and Firefox and other projects, there's a huge counter-balancing force to the typical short-term corporate motives.
And the cycle of platforms absorbing external functionality into their platform continues. Centralization like this makes sense but it is expense and slows development. How long did it take...
And the cycle of platforms absorbing external functionality into their platform continues. Centralization like this makes sense but it is expense and slows development. How long did it take YouTube to roll out memberships and merchandise? It would have been easier to allow direct integrations with other platforms that provide those features rather than building and marketing them from scratch.
The platforms we're on have too much of a temptation from capitalism/growth and "profit" motive to resist building everything themselves and forcing everyone on to their platform. If the mission was to do what is best for creators, there would be a direct integration with Patreon and other patronage/crowd-funding platforms. They would figure out a way to get ads to pay more for each creator.
I know I am being too hopeful to think that maybe, just maybe, I won't get these paid channels shoved down my throat in the recommended videos sections. The recommended channels are shit enough...
I know I am being too hopeful to think that maybe, just maybe, I won't get these paid channels shoved down my throat in the recommended videos sections. The recommended channels are shit enough already, and I get the distinct feeling that the channels that opted for becoming paid subscription channels won't be the kind of channels I want to watch.
It's not even just the recommended videos section anymore. Every suggestion page is litered with ads/clickbait. They've recently stopped showing your sub feed in normal chronological order like...
It's not even just the recommended videos section anymore. Every suggestion page is litered with ads/clickbait. They've recently stopped showing your sub feed in normal chronological order like it's always been; A thinly veiled step toward using the subfeed to push ads
edit: I've mistakenly greatly exaggerated the extent of the subfeed changes, I was referring to an optional test on a small group of users
Yeah it's been a slow roll out. Looking at the feed now, it looks like they may have even backed off from that. I know H3 made a pretty big fuss about them mentioning "optimizing the subfeed",...
Yeah it's been a slow roll out. Looking at the feed now, it looks like they may have even backed off from that. I know H3 made a pretty big fuss about them mentioning "optimizing the subfeed", maybe they got enough backlash on that to step off... for now.
Oh I have been on top of that for weeks. But it's like playing wack-a-mole with a hydra. Every channel i block just opens it up to new channels to appear. It's maddening.
Oh I have been on top of that for weeks. But it's like playing wack-a-mole with a hydra. Every channel i block just opens it up to new channels to appear. It's maddening.
Hopefully they don't go the way of Medium where I've scrolled through several full pages of premium articles before finding something free in my feed. Its frustrating that I have to pay to access...
Hopefully they don't go the way of Medium where I've scrolled through several full pages of premium articles before finding something free in my feed. Its frustrating that I have to pay to access the content, it's even more frustrating that you show so much premium content that I do not consume enough of to pay for.
You need 100,000 subscribers... Great. Meaning YouTube is still not a path to generate income, however small, unless you've got one hell of a subscriber base. For instance, my girlfriend does...
You need 100,000 subscribers... Great.
Meaning YouTube is still not a path to generate income, however small, unless you've got one hell of a subscriber base. For instance, my girlfriend does easy-to-understand travel videos for French learners, but I'm afraid that's so niche she'll never see a dime from YouTube for the hours of content she gives them for free.
Yeah, we're definitely investigating Patreon! But she's in the early stages where the main difficulty is reaching her target audience and building enough of a following... Fingers crossed. Since...
Yeah, we're definitely investigating Patreon! But she's in the early stages where the main difficulty is reaching her target audience and building enough of a following... Fingers crossed.
Basically, Youtube is implementing their own version of Patreon in-house.
Makes sense from a business standpoint, but will likely lead to even more clickbait.
Huh, I never really noticed that until now. I wonder what they will next copy. Maybe they'll try and rip off reddit's commenting system?
It would be fun to see the tildes equivalent of Youtube/Imgur. Donation driven, no ads, privacy respecting. Of course, since not even Google can run at a profit with their massive market share, such a site would be all but impossible. The hosting costs would be astronomical. And how would content creators get paid?
You're probably right that Pornhub has the potential to make a video hosting site. They've got the infrastructure, the community manager has considered it, and they already have a SFW section. On the other hand, the Network Effect likely will keep people locked into Youtube for a long long time, regardless of alternatives.
If I could gild or post this on r/bestof I would. Extremely high effort.
(claps)
I don't even know how something will be able to topple youtube. In its current form it's just pissing away money because of how massive the infrastructure is. Any company capable of taking over would have to already have some foundation set up, because there's no way that you can just scratchbuild a video platform like that.
I wonder if that's why Youtube just sorta steamrolls the updates and refuses to communicate/telegraph their moves. They know they can get away with it because there's no competitors on the horizon.
Do you think someone would be able to just create a competitor out of thin air, or would they need to get clever about utilizing/co-opting existing infrastructure and getting creative with p2p?
They'd have to get clever. Or the landscape of "internet" and it's providers (ISPs) will have to drastically change. Google is already running Youtube "cheaply". They save on data costs by owning fiber, having the leverage to negotiate where they don't own it, and by running their own ultra-redundant, ultra-cheap, pioneering data centers. They save on ad costs because they are themselves the ad provider, other sites have to pay a middleman, like GoogleAds. Even with Youtube running about as cheaply as possible, it's still 3-4 times more expensive (data costs alone), than anything they bring in through ad revenue.
edit: Article breaking down this topic
So we can expect to see more and more obnoxious ads as Youtube tries to monetize?
You're missing another alternative; self-hosting in a Wordpress-style ecosystem. Anyone can easily hook up payments and post videos on Wordpress; with a federated platform like PeerTube.
I think that's what ends up toppling these giants. Federated video with a market of developers and designers who will build more integrations and design better/easier interfaces.
I went to the Log-out conference and someone was suggesting building an alternative to the Amazon Mechanical Turk platform that rewards the workers with higher pay and the people submitting requests to the workers with higher quality (it sucks to submit 1 item 10 times in the hope that at least one person returns decent quality work).
Who wouldn't want to be part of that mission? To take down one of part of Amazon's vast empire? You get to be the Rebel Alliance conspiring against the Empire! That is an exciting mission and it sure beats the typical startup's plan to sell out to the Empire (whether it's Google, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook or whoever).
I have absolutely noticed this change, even in blindingly simple cases e.g., the filed copyright claim is for a song from a particular date, but the title of the the video, the description, and everything about the video details a different date! It's like a shotgun aimed at anything you upload, and the only choice is to file a somewhat incredulous appeal and hope for the best.
That change occurred in tandem with the mass demonetization in response to a couple of ad providers pulling their ads because of the Pewdiepie story and ensuing "investigation" (which consisted of journalists searching for ultra-racist videos and refreshing the page until an ad played on the video). Like Reddit, Youtube is tripping over itself and alienating the users that drive the content of the site by increasingly pandering to advertisers.
Just barely. They were pretty quickly bought out by Google (September 06, about a year and a half after it was launched). I believe by the time Google stepped in, Youtube's bandwidth costs were around $2 million/month and the only sources of income were ads, deals with copyright holders, and venture capital. If YouTube wasn't bought by someone with the cash and infrastructure Google had, it likely wouldn't exist today, either due to insurmountable data costs, or insurmountable lawsuits.
Your post isn't just about YouTube; it's about the underlying engine that runs the platform. They've come up with a system, with an engine that drives views of videos and rewards creators. Annnnnnnd then they fucked it up because they have no idea what they've actually built and their motives are skewed. When you're running the platform as a business, you're a middleman, a facilitator looking to get your cut.
YouTube should be run like an infrastructure project (my personal opinion is they should be a co-operative with the creators' mission at their centre). If they're infrastructure, like Linux, the GNU tools and Firefox and other projects, there's a huge counter-balancing force to the typical short-term corporate motives.
And the cycle of platforms absorbing external functionality into their platform continues. Centralization like this makes sense but it is expense and slows development. How long did it take YouTube to roll out memberships and merchandise? It would have been easier to allow direct integrations with other platforms that provide those features rather than building and marketing them from scratch.
The platforms we're on have too much of a temptation from capitalism/growth and "profit" motive to resist building everything themselves and forcing everyone on to their platform. If the mission was to do what is best for creators, there would be a direct integration with Patreon and other patronage/crowd-funding platforms. They would figure out a way to get ads to pay more for each creator.
I know I am being too hopeful to think that maybe, just maybe, I won't get these paid channels shoved down my throat in the recommended videos sections. The recommended channels are shit enough already, and I get the distinct feeling that the channels that opted for becoming paid subscription channels won't be the kind of channels I want to watch.
It's not even just the recommended videos section anymore. Every suggestion page is litered with ads/clickbait. They've recently stopped showing your sub feed in normal chronological order like it's always been; A thinly veiled step toward using the subfeed to push ads
edit: I've mistakenly greatly exaggerated the extent of the subfeed changes, I was referring to an optional test on a small group of users
Ah that makes more sense; Appreciate the clarification. I appended my post
All we need now is for @teaearlgraycold to pop in and say hi, then we will have the trifecta of tea based users interacting all in one thread. ;)
Woaah there's a another guy referencing both tea AND Star Trek?! What a world
Yeah it's been a slow roll out. Looking at the feed now, it looks like they may have even backed off from that. I know H3 made a pretty big fuss about them mentioning "optimizing the subfeed", maybe they got enough backlash on that to step off... for now.
It's possible to use Ublock Origin to hide the Recommended channels. You might try that.
Oh I have been on top of that for weeks. But it's like playing wack-a-mole with a hydra. Every channel i block just opens it up to new channels to appear. It's maddening.
Hopefully they don't go the way of Medium where I've scrolled through several full pages of premium articles before finding something free in my feed. Its frustrating that I have to pay to access the content, it's even more frustrating that you show so much premium content that I do not consume enough of to pay for.
You need 100,000 subscribers... Great.
Meaning YouTube is still not a path to generate income, however small, unless you've got one hell of a subscriber base. For instance, my girlfriend does easy-to-understand travel videos for French learners, but I'm afraid that's so niche she'll never see a dime from YouTube for the hours of content she gives them for free.
Yeah, we're definitely investigating Patreon! But she's in the early stages where the main difficulty is reaching her target audience and building enough of a following... Fingers crossed.
Since you asked so kindly... Here's her channel:
Hélène se promène
Cheers!