23 votes

Telegram now allows every Telegram user to delete any message in a private conversation from both sides

19 comments

  1. [3]
    guts
    Link
    According to Pavel Durov: "We know some people may get concerned about the potential misuse of this feature or the permanence of their inboxes. We thought carefully through those issues, but we...

    According to Pavel Durov:
    "We know some people may get concerned about the potential misuse of this feature or the permanence of their inboxes. We thought carefully through those issues, but we think the benefit of having control over your digital footprint is more important."

    12 votes
    1. mftrhu
      Link Parent
      Emphasis on "your". This allows the manipulation of someone's else digital footprint, and the destruction of someone's else messages - not just your own. No, I don't believe their "we thought...

      we think the benefit of having control over your digital footprint is more important.

      Emphasis on "your". This allows the manipulation of someone's else digital footprint, and the destruction of someone's else messages - not just your own.

      No, I don't believe their "we thought carefully through".

      6 votes
    2. Catt
      Link Parent
      Their original ability to delete a message was one of the reasons I really like telegram, though I never used it. Still I like the idea. Glad for this update.

      Their original ability to delete a message was one of the reasons I really like telegram, though I never used it. Still I like the idea. Glad for this update.

      3 votes
  2. [12]
    masochist
    Link
    I can delete messages that the other person sent for both of us. How was this considered a good idea? There are so. many. ways. this can be abused. I am constantly surprised how developers of...

    I can delete messages that the other person sent for both of us. How was this considered a good idea? There are so. many. ways. this can be abused. I am constantly surprised how developers of communications software assume that everyone is just going to get along all the time, that everyone is going to be perfectly behaved in all situations. It boggles my mind. Do they not actually use the software they develop?

    10 votes
    1. [2]
      alyaza
      Link Parent
      see @guts's comment upthread: they did think about that, they just think the benefits outweigh the costs.

      see @guts's comment upthread: they did think about that, they just think the benefits outweigh the costs.

      10 votes
      1. masochist
        Link Parent
        That still doesn't make it a good idea, though. How is this a good idea? I can think of far more ways it can be abused than used as intended. My point about developers assuming everyone has good...

        That still doesn't make it a good idea, though. How is this a good idea? I can think of far more ways it can be abused than used as intended. My point about developers assuming everyone has good intentions at all times stands. This is absolutely a quirk of modern social tools; pretty much every older social tool (IRC, Usenet, email, even AIM and other older IM tools) have / had ways to block people.

        5 votes
    2. [9]
      qwertz
      Link Parent
      Also keep in mind this only applies to "Private" chats, not all chats.

      Also keep in mind this only applies to "Private" chats, not all chats.

      1 vote
      1. [8]
        Octofox
        Link Parent
        Thats the worst part though. This feature essentially allows people to retroactively revoke an agreement and delete any proof from both sides devices. There are countless ways this can be abused....

        Thats the worst part though. This feature essentially allows people to retroactively revoke an agreement and delete any proof from both sides devices. There are countless ways this can be abused. Telegram already allowed you to delete messages for a few minutes after you sent them which covers the "Shit, sent that to the wrong person" case. The only use case for this feature is destruction of proof. You can't unsend a message one its sent. Its still in the mind of the receiver only they are unable to show anyone now.

        This on top of a bunch of other pretend privacy features make me distrust them even more. There really is a strong need to move to something with real privacy and actual open source like Matrix.

        12 votes
        1. [7]
          zaarn
          Link Parent
          Telegram messages aren't a good basis for any sort of binding agreement, for that you want paper with signatures. Or maybe make a screenshot.

          Telegram messages aren't a good basis for any sort of binding agreement, for that you want paper with signatures.

          Or maybe make a screenshot.

          7 votes
          1. [4]
            Octofox
            Link Parent
            IM messages are extremely common sources of proof in legal cases. Are you going to ask a date to sign a paper stating that you were indeed invited over in a more than friends way or are you going...

            IM messages are extremely common sources of proof in legal cases. Are you going to ask a date to sign a paper stating that you were indeed invited over in a more than friends way or are you going to discuss it over IM

            12 votes
            1. [3]
              zaarn
              Link Parent
              Being invited over is probably in the range of "why would they even delete the invite?" If they are that malicious they'd manage it another way. And again, you can just take a screenshot of the...

              Being invited over is probably in the range of "why would they even delete the invite?" If they are that malicious they'd manage it another way.

              And again, you can just take a screenshot of the message if you want.

              1. [2]
                Octofox
                Link Parent
                Why even have the feature in the first place? There are next to no non malicious uses for it.

                Why even have the feature in the first place? There are next to no non malicious uses for it.

                8 votes
                1. zaarn
                  Link Parent
                  I can imagine several situations in which I wanted to delete what the other conversation partner said for non-malicious, private reasons. One might be whenever my neighbor sends me her password so...

                  I can imagine several situations in which I wanted to delete what the other conversation partner said for non-malicious, private reasons. One might be whenever my neighbor sends me her password so I can check if her email still works. I'd rather delete that because she usually doesn't quite recognize that sending it around is a bad idea no matter how often I tell her.

                  3 votes
          2. [2]
            guts
            Link Parent
            I would really want to know from a lawyer if there is any binding agreement of chats at least in the U.S, You can also export chats too in JSON or HTML in Telegram but they can be edited easily.

            I would really want to know from a lawyer if there is any binding agreement of chats at least in the U.S, You can also export chats too in JSON or HTML in Telegram but they can be edited easily.

            1. zaarn
              Link Parent
              You could likely also hack your phone to insert messages into your Telegram (maybe spoof the Telegram app?). From what I've been told during the computer law lectures, agreements over chat, phone...

              You could likely also hack your phone to insert messages into your Telegram (maybe spoof the Telegram app?).

              From what I've been told during the computer law lectures, agreements over chat, phone or in person are at first non-binding until there is a formal confirmation (ie, you click on an order button on a website or sign the papers).

              4 votes
  3. [4]
    nothis
    Link
    Good, I guess? How's the general evilness status of Telegram? I've started to talk some friends and family into using it over WhatsApp to escape the grip Facebook, Inc a little and was pleasantly...

    Good, I guess? How's the general evilness status of Telegram? I've started to talk some friends and family into using it over WhatsApp to escape the grip Facebook, Inc a little and was pleasantly surprised just how easy it is because of how basic the service is, really. I don't know much about Telegram as a company, though.

    3 votes
    1. [3]
      masochist
      Link Parent
      This comment outlines some concerns with Telegram. The biggest evilness concern would be their connection to VK, though the homebrew encryption thing is a similar level of concern, and the point I...

      general evilness status of Telegram

      This comment outlines some concerns with Telegram. The biggest evilness concern would be their connection to VK, though the homebrew encryption thing is a similar level of concern, and the point I made elsethread about their volunteer support should be something you keep in mind as well.

      5 votes
      1. guts
        Link Parent
        What i recall Pavel was the founder of VK but left after the government took over VK, Pavel left Russia after that.

        This comment

        What i recall Pavel was the founder of VK but left after the government took over VK, Pavel left Russia after that.

        1 vote
      2. nothis
        Link Parent
        Thanks. I guess it's hard to find a non-controversial service, these days. I think I'll stick with it for the time being, to me it's less a crypto issue than moving away from facebook.

        Thanks. I guess it's hard to find a non-controversial service, these days. I think I'll stick with it for the time being, to me it's less a crypto issue than moving away from facebook.

        1 vote