18 votes

Apple WWDC 2019 Livestream

47 comments

  1. [13]
    Defluo
    Link
    $6k for the anti-glare 6k monitor, am I right in thinking that's kind of crazy? I'm glad they finally announced a refresh for the mac pro and went back to a sane form factor.

    $6k for the anti-glare 6k monitor, am I right in thinking that's kind of crazy?
    I'm glad they finally announced a refresh for the mac pro and went back to a sane form factor.

    5 votes
    1. [6]
      krg
      Link Parent
      It's not bad, really. Here's a lesser-specced Eizo that's similarly priced. Pro displays can get very expensive.

      It's not bad, really. Here's a lesser-specced Eizo that's similarly priced. Pro displays can get very expensive.

      13 votes
      1. [5]
        emdash
        Link Parent
        Yup. Apple is merely popularizing a category of products end-consumers most likely did not know existed. This is not aimed at consumers. This is a business & professional product. Criticizing it...

        Yup. Apple is merely popularizing a category of products end-consumers most likely did not know existed. This is not aimed at consumers. This is a business & professional product. Criticizing it for its price is silly.

        However, I do think it's valid to criticise Apple for ignoring the prosumer/consumer display market. They could make a fantastic display for $1k or so. But they don't.

        9 votes
        1. [3]
          Defluo
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          You seem to know a good amount about this, hopefully you can answer this. Who is buying these Eizo $30k monitors? I asked a friend who is an editor at a mid-size hollywood movie studio (you have...

          You seem to know a good amount about this, hopefully you can answer this. Who is buying these Eizo $30k monitors? I asked a friend who is an editor at a mid-size hollywood movie studio (you have seen at least a few of these movies probably, just to give you an idea of the size of the studio) and he says the monitors they use are JVC ones that cost less than $2000.

          Are these for special effects studios like ILM or something else?

          EDIT: I found some image editing/photography studios (?) that use Eizos but the $4k ones not the $30k ones. I'm assuming these are for photo editors and people who deal in print mediums?

          3 votes
          1. [2]
            Greg
            Link Parent
            I can't speak for those specific panels, but in general medical imaging is one of the most demanding use cases for monitors. It makes sense to use the best available when accurate image...

            I can't speak for those specific panels, but in general medical imaging is one of the most demanding use cases for monitors. It makes sense to use the best available when accurate image reproduction can be a life critical application; whether or not that price is necessary or justified in order to actually get the best is another question, though.

            2 votes
            1. Defluo
              Link Parent
              That makes sense, thank you. I would have never guessed it was medical imaging!

              That makes sense, thank you. I would have never guessed it was medical imaging!

        2. Spel
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          Could they really make a $1k display that completley clearly the competition though? That's a price point where there's already a lot of competition, despite it being a niche. Could they really...

          Could they really make a $1k display that completley clearly the competition though? That's a price point where there's already a lot of competition, despite it being a niche. Could they really add anything substantial?

          1 vote
    2. [2]
      nothis
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      I think the real fuck-you part in that was the $1000 for the stand. It might be the best piece of metal and the best screws and variable height/rotation adjustments in the world... this is not...

      I think the real fuck-you part in that was the $1000 for the stand. It might be the best piece of metal and the best screws and variable height/rotation adjustments in the world... this is not $1000 worth of engineering and not $1000 worth of materials.

      That being said, this is a typical case of business-to-consumer oriented thinking applied to business-to-business products. There's like... $5000 spreadsheet software that makes you scratch your head but then you look closer and it's software used by maybe a handful of companies worldwide to solve a particularly obscure (and boring) problem with many gotchas and special cases you'd gladly pay someone a few weeks of salary to solve years worth of headaches.

      This is the hardware equivalent of such software.

      Still, they charge that money because they can (look at the competition in that segment, the prices are insane as well, making Apple's solution look "cheap"), not because they put the work in it.

      7 votes
      1. Greg
        Link Parent
        My guess is that in the context of a six-figure bill to a studio, the stands will either go more or less unnoticed, or will further protect Apple's margins when they offer a "generous" percentage...

        My guess is that in the context of a six-figure bill to a studio, the stands will either go more or less unnoticed, or will further protect Apple's margins when they offer a "generous" percentage discount on the enterprise hardware contract - knowing full well that the discount is effectively cut in half by the 90%+ markup on the stands.

        4 votes
    3. [3]
      ali
      Link Parent
      I expected more when they announced a comparable screen was 40k (or was it 20k?)

      I expected more when they announced a comparable screen was 40k (or was it 20k?)

      2 votes
      1. [2]
        ras
        Link Parent
        Talk about price anchoring...

        Talk about price anchoring...

        1. Greg
          Link Parent
          That doesn't necessarily mean it's inaccurate, though. Back in the bad old days, the only monitors >100dpi were specialist panels for medical imaging and those comfortably came with...

          That doesn't necessarily mean it's inaccurate, though. Back in the bad old days, the only monitors >100dpi were specialist panels for medical imaging and those comfortably came with mid-five-figure price tags; not for any technical reason, of course, just because of the small market size and the "because we can" factor that comes with specialist B2B sales. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the same thing is at play here, and contrast/colour reproduction is suddenly going to become a consumer selling point.

          3 votes
    4. vegai
      Link Parent
      It almost seems like they did that (especially the $1K stand) just to get people to meme about it.

      It almost seems like they did that (especially the $1K stand) just to get people to meme about it.

  2. aphoenix
    Link
    Sidecar has me actually excited. I don't have an iPad, but I've been thinking about getting one for a while. Having a second monitor that is super portable and functions as a tablet will be great.

    Sidecar has me actually excited. I don't have an iPad, but I've been thinking about getting one for a while. Having a second monitor that is super portable and functions as a tablet will be great.

    4 votes
  3. [25]
    gpl
    Link
    I wasn't able to follow along. Any big news, or cool announcements?

    I wasn't able to follow along. Any big news, or cool announcements?

    3 votes
    1. [22]
      ali
      Link Parent
      New Mac Pro with up to 1.5 Tera byte ram, if you're a dev, some cool things have been added to swift and arkit. Watch app store, dark mode in ios

      New Mac Pro with up to 1.5 Tera byte ram, if you're a dev, some cool things have been added to swift and arkit.
      Watch app store, dark mode in ios

      5 votes
      1. [17]
        gpl
        Link Parent
        1.5 TB RAM?? Damn, that's more than some of the compute nodes at work. Seriously, that's pretty insane power for a home rig.

        1.5 TB RAM?? Damn, that's more than some of the compute nodes at work. Seriously, that's pretty insane power for a home rig.

        5 votes
        1. [8]
          ras
          Link Parent
          The only people who can afford it is Apple themselves.

          The only people who can afford it is Apple themselves.

          8 votes
          1. [7]
            frickindeal
            Link Parent
            MKBHD will have one, but I'm not sure he pays for it.

            MKBHD will have one, but I'm not sure he pays for it.

            3 votes
            1. [6]
              NecrophiliaChocolate
              Link Parent
              Do people from this site follow his videos? I find them too annoying since it almost always feels like regurgitated info. And quite a few of his non mobile videos e.g. his car ones felt like he...

              Do people from this site follow his videos? I find them too annoying since it almost always feels like regurgitated info. And quite a few of his non mobile videos e.g. his car ones felt like he was talking out of his ass. Obviously no hate to him or anyone who consumes his content, this is just my opinion.

              6 votes
              1. emdash
                Link Parent
                MKBHD is basically repeated content with some mildly informed-at-best opinions sandwiched between some very nice video editing.

                MKBHD is basically repeated content with some mildly informed-at-best opinions sandwiched between some very nice video editing.

                9 votes
              2. cyanide
                Link Parent
                I personally don't. It's turned into something that caters to the lowest common denominator. Of course, the production values have gone up and so has the viewership. But they usually aren't...

                Do people from this site follow his videos?

                I personally don't. It's turned into something that caters to the lowest common denominator. Of course, the production values have gone up and so has the viewership. But they usually aren't interesting any more.

                6 votes
              3. [3]
                frickindeal
                Link Parent
                He's decent for cell phone reviews, especially in regards to camera quality, and his Dope Tech series has shown some very cool, very expensive hardware, but he's generally never the first to...

                He's decent for cell phone reviews, especially in regards to camera quality, and his Dope Tech series has shown some very cool, very expensive hardware, but he's generally never the first to review a phone or other device, and he's got to get his conspicuous consumption in check, or at least his display of it. He went through his camera lenses and he's got to have something like $100K just in glass. His camera rig is easily $75K, and his studio has a robotic camera arm, controlled by a computer. It's a bit over the top.

                2 votes
                1. [2]
                  NecrophiliaChocolate
                  Link Parent
                  To me how much he spends on his gear doesnt matter. Linus Tech Tips spends as much if not more on production but their videos are completely different.

                  To me how much he spends on his gear doesnt matter. Linus Tech Tips spends as much if not more on production but their videos are completely different.

                  2 votes
                  1. frickindeal
                    Link Parent
                    Sure, I get that. What I'm saying is showing your viewers that you have that much more than they're typically going to have is a bit of a slippery slope. People like Howard Stern and David...

                    Sure, I get that. What I'm saying is showing your viewers that you have that much more than they're typically going to have is a bit of a slippery slope. People like Howard Stern and David Letterman have always been uncomfortable talking about how much money they make, because it alienates your audience. Seeing MKBHD with the P100D Tesla as his daily driver (a $135K car) can turn some people off, especially when his job is making a few videos a week that are less than twenty minutes long.

                    1 vote
        2. [7]
          asoftbird
          Link Parent
          What would you even use that much RAM for? Keep everything loaded simultaneously for instant file access? Play a very heavy Minecraft modpack?

          What would you even use that much RAM for? Keep everything loaded simultaneously for instant file access? Play a very heavy Minecraft modpack?

          1 vote
          1. Greg
            Link Parent
            Along with the other hardware they announced, it looks like they're making a heavy play for the video editing market here (where Apple has traditionally been strong, but lost out in recent years...

            Along with the other hardware they announced, it looks like they're making a heavy play for the video editing market here (where Apple has traditionally been strong, but lost out in recent years due to the weak workstation lineup). Cinema quality footage can easily pass 150MB/s (that's bytes, capital B), so every 10GB of RAM you add buys you another minute of editable video at your fingertips.

            13 votes
          2. [4]
            gpl
            Link Parent
            To be honest I have no clue. I run some applications that can eat up ~100 GB RAM at a time but I have processors to match it. I can't imagine using ~1TB and not having compute be a huge...

            To be honest I have no clue. I run some applications that can eat up ~100 GB RAM at a time but I have processors to match it. I can't imagine using ~1TB and not having compute be a huge bottleneck, but then again maybe there are applications out there that need it.

            1. [3]
              Greg
              Link Parent
              There's a dedicated video coprocessor card called "Afterburner" coming out at the same time, so I think that's the missing piece of the puzzle. Even so I doubt many studios will stump for any...

              There's a dedicated video coprocessor card called "Afterburner" coming out at the same time, so I think that's the missing piece of the puzzle. Even so I doubt many studios will stump for any workstations with a full 1.5TB, and it's the upper limit (with future proofing in mind) after all, but I can see 300-600GB being useful for editing a few streams of 8K footage. Apparently Apple's own tests were run in a 384GB configuration.

              2 votes
              1. [2]
                babypuncher
                Link Parent
                8K footage? I feel like we've already hit a strong point of diminishing returns with 4k.

                8K footage? I feel like we've already hit a strong point of diminishing returns with 4k.

                1. Greg
                  Link Parent
                  For most normal output uses, that's pretty much the case. Even on the input side it's fairly niche, and to be honest probably of dubious value for a lot of people, but there are a few reasonable...

                  For most normal output uses, that's pretty much the case. Even on the input side it's fairly niche, and to be honest probably of dubious value for a lot of people, but there are a few reasonable situations that you might be editing it: oversampling for higher quality outputs, post-production cropping/framing/panning, noise reduction, etc.

                  There are also no doubt situations where people find themselves editing it largely because that's what the client specified, whether or not it brings anything beneficial to the process.

          3. Silbern
            Link Parent
            Probably nothing. I seriously doubt most anyone today is going to be getting the full 1.5TB for use, I think that's just the max it could theoretically support. Maybe a few businesses will get it...

            Probably nothing. I seriously doubt most anyone today is going to be getting the full 1.5TB for use, I think that's just the max it could theoretically support. Maybe a few businesses will get it if money is truly not an object, but I don't think we could really put it to work today. Maybe in a decade or so though, who knows? I bet nobody in 2003 thought we could make a browser that needs 16GB of RAM to hold more than a few tabs in memory at a time.

        3. Silbern
          Link Parent
          Right? That was my first thought too. My university's high memory compute cluster nodes have 1TB of RAM each, and all of our nodes put together are about 45 TB. 30 of these new Mac Pros, fully...

          Right? That was my first thought too. My university's high memory compute cluster nodes have 1TB of RAM each, and all of our nodes put together are about 45 TB. 30 of these new Mac Pros, fully maxxed out, could hold the same amount of data, and probably without the insane cooling solution or the millions of dollars we invested a couple years back. It's nice to finally feel like tech's moving forward again. :)

      2. [4]
        frickindeal
        Link Parent
        They can finally quit bitching in r/iphone. I've never seen a more passionately-sought feature in tech.

        dark mode in ios

        They can finally quit bitching in r/iphone. I've never seen a more passionately-sought feature in tech.

        2 votes
        1. [3]
          cyanide
          Link Parent
          Nope. That would be the volume HUD. People will finally have to switch to other gripes for free karma.

          They can finally quit bitching in r/iphone. I've never seen a more passionately-sought feature in tech.

          Nope. That would be the volume HUD. People will finally have to switch to other gripes for free karma.

          1. [2]
            nothis
            Link Parent
            Honestly, I can get pretty mad at what Apple is doing with MacBooks, currently, but iOS is so good, really. If you ask me why I use Apple devices, iOS is maybe the only real argument I have left....

            Honestly, I can get pretty mad at what Apple is doing with MacBooks, currently, but iOS is so good, really. If you ask me why I use Apple devices, iOS is maybe the only real argument I have left.

            They've had a few weird things going on with 11 (that calculator bug was embarrassing) but it's now smooth as butter, super stable and all the functions are smartly laid out. Basically, I don't want to "notice" my smartphone OS and it does that. Whenever I have to deal with my girlfriend's Android phone, some things don't work for annoying reasons.

            1 vote
            1. cyanide
              Link Parent
              Same here. I'm only in the Apple camp for the software and the privacy. The hardware side from certain other manufacturers has caught up and in some cases, even surpassed Apple. Hell, I'd even...

              Same here. I'm only in the Apple camp for the software and the privacy. The hardware side from certain other manufacturers has caught up and in some cases, even surpassed Apple. Hell, I'd even give up Apple software (iOS, macOS) if it was just about the quality of the software. But the privacy offerings are a huge deal for me.

    2. vegai
      Link Parent
      iTunes being broken up to three separate applications is semi-big if you subscribe to Apple Music. I just hope it's a rewrite rather than a copy/paste x 3 + some refactoring.

      iTunes being broken up to three separate applications is semi-big if you subscribe to Apple Music. I just hope it's a rewrite rather than a copy/paste x 3 + some refactoring.

      1 vote
  4. [6]
    NaraVara
    Link
    Alas, my dream of a headless consumer level Mac desktop remains unfulfilled. The new son of the cheese grater Mac Pro looks great, but I can't justify that kind of money. . . I am sorely tempted...

    Alas, my dream of a headless consumer level Mac desktop remains unfulfilled.

    The new son of the cheese grater Mac Pro looks great, but I can't justify that kind of money. . .

    I am sorely tempted to shell out for that display though.

    1. [5]
      ali
      Link Parent
      What about the Mac mini?

      What about the Mac mini?

      3 votes
      1. ras
        Link Parent
        The latest updates to the Mac Mini are really not bad at all.

        The latest updates to the Mac Mini are really not bad at all.

        4 votes
      2. [3]
        NaraVara
        Link Parent
        I want a dedicated GPU or it's not worth it to me.

        I want a dedicated GPU or it's not worth it to me.

        1 vote
        1. [2]
          Greg
          Link Parent
          Thunderbolt 3 eGPU, perhaps?

          Thunderbolt 3 eGPU, perhaps?

          2 votes
          1. NaraVara
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            I thought about it, but decent eGPU housings cost a ton on top of the graphics cards themselves. It's just not worth it, the price-to-performance ratio with a self-built PC is just too good. I'd...

            I thought about it, but decent eGPU housings cost a ton on top of the graphics cards themselves. It's just not worth it, the price-to-performance ratio with a self-built PC is just too good. I'd pay the Apple Tax for something that "just works" but a fiddly eGPU solution doesn't.

            3 votes
  5. stephen
    Link
    Someone @ me if they start nixing buttons and the built in earpiece and microphone to force you to use airpods for calls. I had a dream last night that the new iPhone will be a featureless...

    Someone @ me if they start nixing buttons and the built in earpiece and microphone to force you to use airpods for calls. I had a dream last night that the new iPhone will be a featureless aluminum wedge with a screen on it.