18 votes

Unofficial Weekly Discussion #2 - Topic tag system brainstorming session

Inspired by @Lawrencium265's suggestion from a few days ago on advanced topic tag filtering:

After the discussion the other day on expanding groups into sub groups I had an idea about topic tags, advanced tag filtering rules. The main argument against sub groups is that it would sequester people away from each other. By allowing more advanced tag rules you could subscribe to topics that you're interested in, but further filter those if they include topics you don't like or allow certain threads that would get filtered out unless they contain a tag you are interested in or are within a certain group. I think this would attract different people to threads that wouldn't normally be and allow more diverse discussion and insight. So instead of having gaming.tabletop you would use the tabletop tag under gaming and those who are not interested in it can filter it out and those who are solely interested in it can subscribe to it, and then if a topic gets tagged in an unrelated group that you otherwise wouldn't be interested inyou will know about. This also has the side benefit if preventing cross posting or duplicates.

I have decided that the topic of this week's unofficial discussion is going to be on the Tildes topic tag system. But rather than make it specifically on topic tag filtering and that idea in particular, I figured we could open the discussion up a bit more and have a community brainstorming session on the topic tag system in general. I.e. Anything related to tag browsing, tag filtering, tag organization/standardization, etc.

Feel free to comment on any of the open "topic tag" related issues on Tildes Gitlab that pique your interest and you would like to discuss more in depth, propose your own new ideas related to topic tags, or even just spitball.

The point here is to open up the conversation and get ideas flowing freely, so with that in mind, let's please try to keep things positive, and keep any criticism purely constructive and friendly so as not to discourage people from participating.


Previous Unofficial Weekly Discussions:

Week - #1


Other relevant links:
Donate to Tildes - Tildes Gitlab : Issues Board - Tildes Official Docs

17 comments

  1. [2]
    Algernon_Asimov
    Link
    I'm not currently using the tag feature. I was using it when introductions threads were a trend (when every new recruit to Tildes felt the need to make a post introducing themselves): I filtered...

    I'm not currently using the tag feature. I was using it when introductions threads were a trend (when every new recruit to Tildes felt the need to make a post introducing themselves): I filtered out "introductions". But, as those those threads stopped being a thing (thank goodness!), I didn't have a need for that filter so I dropped it. I currently have no tags in that filter feature.

    I'm not comfortable filtering things out by tags. It makes me anxious that I'll miss something. I hate making things invisible. How can I see what's going on if some parts of the website are invisible to me?

    I would much prefer to filter in by tags. I want to add a tag to a personal list, and then have post with that tag appear in my front page feed; I want to subscribe to tags.

    It would be nice to concatenate tags: to have a facility for subscribing to posts which have tags "A" and "B", but not "A" or "B" alone.

    8 votes
    1. Adys
      Link Parent
      I like the idea of subscribing to tags. Another possible system could be to have tags you're subscribed to be highlighted on the homepage (eg. a different color/background of sorts).

      I like the idea of subscribing to tags. Another possible system could be to have tags you're subscribed to be highlighted on the homepage (eg. a different color/background of sorts).

      5 votes
  2. umbrae
    Link
    Just a half formed idea I’ve been having lately to float to the group. I’ve been feeling really burnt out by death in the news. I’ve been wondering what it would be like to have a news consumption...

    Just a half formed idea I’ve been having lately to float to the group.

    I’ve been feeling really burnt out by death in the news. I’ve been wondering what it would be like to have a news consumption experience completely devoid of it.

    I think tags could be one way to do this as long as folks were consistently tagging with the same thing, and remembered to do so.

    What if there was a checkbox on the submission flow that asked, “Does this post contain sensitive content? (death, violence, sexual harm, etc)” and, if checked, would provide some checkboxes with various trigger. tags that would be appended to tags and applied?

    I think this is only one approach, but I’d be curious how others feel.

    7 votes
  3. Lawrencium265
    Link
    My idea was to use the tagging system as robust and versatile way to use the site within it's existing framework, my thought was based on email rules. It would allow users to create their own 'sub...

    My idea was to use the tagging system as robust and versatile way to use the site within it's existing framework, my thought was based on email rules.

    It would allow users to create their own 'sub groups' and as things wax and wane as they do it prevents purging of 'dead' groups as those tags would still be available.

    Filtering and subscribing to tags by user or group would be useful, for instance if one user crestes a weekly discussion, or you're Interested in discussing the Marlins sports team but not articles about Marlins under ~science

    Sometimes topics fall under multiple groups, such as scientific news. Posting it under one group and then tagging it with the other prevents crossposting but also prevents users from missing out because they don't like to read one or the other normally, which than brings people who normally wouldn't be in that group into the discussion, bringing new insights to it.

    All of this would of course rely on the users to use the tagging system in this way or new and creative ways that I haven't thought of. This could of course be good or bad.

    4 votes
  4. cfabbro
    (edited )
    Link
    I have now gone through everyone's comments here again and added their suggestions to Gitlab, and I will try to remember to do this again if more are added later as well. @Algernon_Asimov, @Adys,...

    I have now gone through everyone's comments here again and added their suggestions to Gitlab, and I will try to remember to do this again if more are added later as well.

    @Algernon_Asimov, @Adys, @Lawrencium265 - I added your tag subscribing related suggestions to the gitlab issue for "Allow users to subscribe to topic tags in a similar way to how groups can be subscribed to."

    @aphoenix - I created a Gitlab issue for your suggestion, "Automate topic tagging for topic media type"

    @Deimos - I added the create mechanism for "site wide tag results" issue to Gitlab as well.

    4 votes
  5. [5]
    aphoenix
    Link
    Would it make sense to tag "video" for things that in video format? In the groups discussion thread the other day, someone brought up that they'd like having a video group so they could...

    Would it make sense to tag "video" for things that in video format? In the groups discussion thread the other day, someone brought up that they'd like having a video group so they could unsubscribe from that group, but to me having a group act as a description of format is not a good idea, and it seems more like a tag. It would also be possible to just add "format" to post and have a filter (ie - text, link, video) and have those potentially be automatically detected.

    Anyone have any other ideas, or any opinions on this?

    3 votes
    1. [4]
      deing
      Link Parent
      We already have a videos tag that does a lot of what you're describing. I like the idea of tagging more content types a lot, though.

      We already have a videos tag that does a lot of what you're describing. I like the idea of tagging more content types a lot, though.

      5 votes
      1. [2]
        aphoenix
        Link Parent
        I knew about the videos tag, but it feels like it doesn't get applied all the time. I guess I was kind of suggesting that we should start actually trying to tag everything it applies to (and I'm...

        I knew about the videos tag, but it feels like it doesn't get applied all the time. I guess I was kind of suggesting that we should start actually trying to tag everything it applies to (and I'm including myself in that) but more was trying to figure out if that's just making work - catching this as an auto-applied tag seems pretty easy.

        Maybe I should make an issue, and then code up a solution for this.

        3 votes
        1. Deimos
          Link Parent
          Yeah, I think we can do something like "topic type" mostly automatically (and then maybe allow manual edits when it's needed). For example, pretty much every link to YouTube, Vimeo, etc. could all...

          Yeah, I think we can do something like "topic type" mostly automatically (and then maybe allow manual edits when it's needed). For example, pretty much every link to YouTube, Vimeo, etc. could all just be automatically considered a video, there's no need for people to have to tag every one manually.

          5 votes
      2. cfabbro
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        Yeah, and Tildes auto-tagging content based on format/media-type would certainly save users (especially those of us with tag-editing) a lot of effort over time so we don't have to keep manually...

        Yeah, and Tildes auto-tagging content based on format/media-type would certainly save users (especially those of us with tag-editing) a lot of effort over time so we don't have to keep manually applying them too, which I like very much as an idea.

        p.s. What the H happened to your link?

        [`text` text](link)
        

        is borked!

        1 vote
  6. [6]
    mundane_and_naive
    Link
    I've always assumed that search by tags would work across groups, weird that that's not the case. Cross-group series like "A laypersons introduction to" wouldn't work without it.

    I've always assumed that search by tags would work across groups, weird that that's not the case. Cross-group series like "A laypersons introduction to" wouldn't work without it.

    1. [5]
      cfabbro
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Unless I'm misunderstanding you, search (and browse) by tags does work across groups. E.g. https://tildes.net/search?q=A+laypersons+introduction+to...

      Unless I'm misunderstanding you, search (and browse) by tags does work across groups. E.g.
      https://tildes.net/search?q=A+laypersons+introduction+to
      https://tildes.net/?tag=a_laypersons_introduction_to
      Both return results from all groups.

      However both methods can be also restricted to particular groups now too. E.g.
      https://tildes.net/~science/search?q=A+laypersons+introduction+to
      https://tildes.net/~science?tag=a_laypersons_introduction_to
      Both only return results from ~science.

      Are you starting your search from within a specific group's page? Because that triggers the group-specific search, which was only recently added as a feature, so I can see how it might be catching some people off-guard. See the latest ~tildes.official topic:
      Recent updates - repost warning, topic-tagging improvements, group-specific search, markdown strikethrough formatting, wiki/docs updates

      You can now search inside a specific group by using the search box while inside that group. The search results page will have a note at the top saying that it's only searching inside that group, along with a link to search the whole site instead. If you search from the home page it will still be site-wide.

      5 votes
      1. [4]
        mundane_and_naive
        Link Parent
        Yeah you're right. I've just tried again, if I click on the tag while in the group in returns only results in the group, but if I click on the tag while on the frontpage then it returns results...

        Yeah you're right. I've just tried again, if I click on the tag while in the group in returns only results in the group, but if I click on the tag while on the frontpage then it returns results site-wide.

        Hm, if I'm currently in reading a post and wants to check its tag site-wide, I'd have to go back to the frontpage and type that tag into search then.

        2 votes
        1. [3]
          cfabbro
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          Hmmm... Yeah, actually clicking on the tags on a topic in a group leading to results restricted just to that group might be a bit weird, especially since I suspect most people "browsing" by tags,...

          Hmmm... Yeah, actually clicking on the tags on a topic in a group leading to results restricted just to that group might be a bit weird, especially since I suspect most people "browsing" by tags, even in a group page, probably expect it to fetch them all the results, not just the ones within that group. @Deimos, thoughts?

          edit: At the very least, there should probably be a similar "Search results from inside ~group only. [Search all groups]" header+link in the ?tag= page too, so it's easier for people to navigate to the unrestricted results page.

          1 vote
          1. [2]
            Deimos
            Link Parent
            It's a little tricky, because there actually is no "site wide tag results" right now. If you're not inside a group, it shows all the results with that tag from your subscribed groups, not...

            It's a little tricky, because there actually is no "site wide tag results" right now. If you're not inside a group, it shows all the results with that tag from your subscribed groups, not everything.

            So that's something we need overall, but then yes, we probably need a better way to get to it as well.

            3 votes
            1. cfabbro
              Link Parent
              Ah, I didn't even realize that tildes.net/?tag= only returned results from subscribed groups, probably since I am still subscribed to all the groups so didn't notice any glaring omissions when I...

              Ah, I didn't even realize that tildes.net/?tag= only returned results from subscribed groups, probably since I am still subscribed to all the groups so didn't notice any glaring omissions when I have been browsing by tag. It suppose it makes sense to do that, but a "site wide tag result" option would definitely be nice to have eventually, especially as Tildes continues to grow/add more groups and user group subscriptions begin to diverge more as a result.

              3 votes
  7. cfabbro
    (edited )
    Link
    p.s. please label this comment noise, but seeing as user mentions don't work in topic text yet, I wanted to properly ping @Lawrencium265 so they could be made aware of this discussion. @Eylrid...

    p.s. please label this comment noise, but seeing as user mentions don't work in topic text yet, I wanted to properly ping @Lawrencium265 so they could be made aware of this discussion. @Eylrid too, because they had a good comment in that thread as well.

    6 votes