Title note I removed the word "theft" from the website's title because there's no such thing as stealing something that already exists within an item the consumer purchased.
Tesla cars are susceptible to a nearly irreversible jailbreak of their onboard infotainment systems that would allow owners to unlock a bevy of paid in-car features for free. The stolen perks can run the gamut from better bandwidth to faster acceleration and heated seats, according to a team of academic researchers.
The researchers also found that it's also possible to escape the infotainment system and pivot to the internal Tesla network for authenticating cars, which creates a wide-open highway to more advanced modding — including breaking geolocation restrictions on navigation and self-driving, and the ability to migrate the Tesla's "user profile" to another vehicle.
Title note
I removed the word "theft" from the website's title because there's no such thing as stealing something that already exists within an item the consumer purchased.
I'll embrace "Boiled Frog" as my generational mascot, I hope other millennials embrace. :)
Millennials generally grew up in a place of comfort where things have been getting worse gradually over the years so they've never felt the need to take charge politically, a slow boil. Gen Z has basically been thrown on the frying pan.
I'll embrace "Boiled Frog" as my generational mascot, I hope other millennials embrace. :)
Good. Pay as you go in a device you physically own is awful. Having features that ship with the devices and not being able to access them unless you pay a fee for them to turn a software flag on,...
Good.
Pay as you go in a device you physically own is awful. Having features that ship with the devices and not being able to access them unless you pay a fee for them to turn a software flag on, should not be allowed.
BMW do it with heated steering wheels where you pay a monthly comfort pack fee to be able to switch on the seat and wheel heating function.
It's particularly egregious for the batteries. Tesla wants to be able to offer people different batteries at different price points. But often they don't want to go through the logistical effort...
It's particularly egregious for the batteries. Tesla wants to be able to offer people different batteries at different price points. But often they don't want to go through the logistical effort to actually manufacture and install batteries with different numbers of cells in them. Instead, they'll just make all versions of a model with the long-range batteries and use software to lock down part of the battery pack.
So you buy a vehicle that physically has the ability to travel a certain range, but it's intentionally crippled by software to be restricted to a shorter range. You can at any time pay them an absurd sum to "upgrade" your battery via software update, when in reality you're just removing the software restrictions they've placed on the battery you already own.
And what is so egregious about this is really the environmental issues. Batteries are not easy things to manufacture; their construction requires a lot of very heavy mining, often from places with very poor pollution control and workers rights laws (or outright slavery in some cases.) And if built using these software-control methods, the "short range" battery requires just as much materials and mining pollution as the "short range" battery. Also, even if you buy the short range battery, you still have to pay the energy costs and decreased energy efficiency of hauling around a long-range battery.
And the same thing goes for all software-based upgrades. They all require you to pay the energy cost of hauling around all these locked features and equipment, even if you have no intention of using them.
We are facing a planetary crisis that threatens the very survival of our civilization. We need to increase energy efficiency and transition to a zero-carbon economy as fast as humanly possible. And one of the biggest challenges we're facing is simply producing enough of the raw materials for all the batteries and solar panels we're going to need. This is a non-trivial problem and one of the biggest issues facing the transition to a zero-carbon society.
We're trying to do this. We're trying to open up new mines as fast as possible. Many countries are going above and beyond to do this, even to the point of waiving normal environmental laws and regulatory processes, just to rapidly expand the supply of these elements we so desperately need. Local communities where these often-polluting mines are opening are asked to make a deep sacrifice for the sake of humanity as a whole.
And then there's Tesla, the poster child of modern green industry. And what are they doing? They're pissing in the eye of everyone. They're taking these very valuable batteries, produced at great environmental and fiscal cost, and they're just flagrantly wasting them. They're putting large batteries in cars and then locking them behind software toll booths. Instead of a lower-range car having a lower environmental footprint, they make it so that they have the same environmental footprint. And they even lower the performance of the low range models to do so. Your low-range Tesla model has lower acceleration and longer breaking distance than it should simply because you have to haul around the long-range battery you cannot access.
This shit needs to be illegal. One of the single greatest challenges we, as a species, are going to have to make over the next 10-20 years is simply producing enough lithium, cobalt, and rare earths to move away from fossil fuels. Hell, I would personally support some sort of government rationing system that made sure supplies first went to cheaper options like e-bikes before we used them to build Teslas. But if we're not willing to do that, the least we can do is to make sure companies aren't pissing away rare materials on features their owners can't even access. You want to offer 3 versions of a model with 3 different ranges? Fine, then manufacture those with three different sized battery packs. People can buy what range vehicle they need, and we'll make sure valuable minerals aren't wasted on some hack profit-wringing scheme.
I think your point stands with a lot of other hardware, but with batteries it's probably not as bad as it seems. Batteries should last longer (in terms of cell degradation) if you don't charge or...
I think your point stands with a lot of other hardware, but with batteries it's probably not as bad as it seems.
Batteries should last longer (in terms of cell degradation) if you don't charge or discharge them as much. Same sort of thing with power. A power restriction (both charge and discharge rate) would increase battery lifespan. The cells wouldn't be wasted if the range or power is locked up. Actually, unlocking that range might be paying to waste more resources by burning through your cells faster.
However I think there are downstream consequences of crippling batteries--slowing adoption, etc., to consider.
The base model 3 has a single battery, the long range and performance both have dual batteries. The long range is meant for long range so you’re expected to drive for efficiency to increase range....
The base model 3 has a single battery, the long range and performance both have dual batteries.
The long range is meant for long range so you’re expected to drive for efficiency to increase range.
The performance comes with other optimization upgrades like tires and a lifted restriction on the accelerator.
I’m not for anything-as-a-service, but this really doesn’t seem that bad. The monthly charge is for Wi-Fi hotspot and music. Completely unnecessary
It's happening I get the concern about malicious hacking as well, but it would be great if you could buy a car and not need to hack it or pay to use whe whole thing.
In lieu of actually being able to download a car, I'll take this for now as a way to wave a massive collective middle finger at the people who came up with "you wouldn't download a car."
In lieu of actually being able to download a car, I'll take this for now as a way to wave a massive collective middle finger at the people who came up with "you wouldn't download a car."
Imagine a realtor handing you the keys to your new house, "Well here are your keys, you lucky duck. Congratulations! Now, if you want the key for the laundry room for the washer and dryer, you'll...
Imagine a realtor handing you the keys to your new house, "Well here are your keys, you lucky duck. Congratulations! Now, if you want the key for the laundry room for the washer and dryer, you'll need to pay the seller $19.99 a month... For as long as you own the house. Enjoy your new home!"
These arguments always feel so shallow. Like this analogy doesn’t even work considering you do pay for electricity, water, gas, etc with a house. “I want one price to unlock the whole house” okay...
These arguments always feel so shallow. Like this analogy doesn’t even work considering you do pay for electricity, water, gas, etc with a house. “I want one price to unlock the whole house” okay fine, but what if you want soft close cabinets or a metal roof or an upgraded bathroom? All extra, still the same house though.
The argument that @gowestyoungman makes I feel is quite valid. Tesla (and other car manufacturers) are charging a subscription fee for access to pre existing physical features on the vehicle. Your...
The argument that @gowestyoungman makes I feel is quite valid. Tesla (and other car manufacturers) are charging a subscription fee for access to pre existing physical features on the vehicle. Your analogy of buying a house and wanting the electric bill paid with it is equivalent to people buying a car and wanting to have gasoline provided in that cost, which is not the argument being made here.
Edit: in addition to your argument of upgrading the bathroom, this is equivalent to an aftermarket upgrade on a vehicle (fancy sound system, bigger wheels, etc), which again is not the same type of argument being made.
It sorta is though. The model 3 has three purchasing options and one subscription type. Single motor Dual motor long range Dual motor performance with performance upgrades like 20” tires The $10...
It sorta is though. The model 3 has three purchasing options and one subscription type.
Single motor
Dual motor long range
Dual motor performance with performance upgrades like 20” tires
The $10 subscription is for music and constant internet connectivity. Regular radio is free like normal
Very curious to see how this develops. The eventual court battles coming out of things like this are going decide just how much the future is based around renting products and never being allowed...
Very curious to see how this develops. The eventual court battles coming out of things like this are going decide just how much the future is based around renting products and never being allowed to own them.
Title note
I removed the word "theft" from the website's title because there's no such thing as stealing something that already exists within an item the consumer purchased.
…and that is why spreading the news of jury nullification is so important.
I'll embrace "Boiled Frog" as my generational mascot, I hope other millennials embrace. :)
Good.
Pay as you go in a device you physically own is awful. Having features that ship with the devices and not being able to access them unless you pay a fee for them to turn a software flag on, should not be allowed.
BMW do it with heated steering wheels where you pay a monthly comfort pack fee to be able to switch on the seat and wheel heating function.
Look at this mess: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-62142208
https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/shop/ls/cp/connected-drive
Rage against the machine by hacking your smart car!
It's particularly egregious for the batteries. Tesla wants to be able to offer people different batteries at different price points. But often they don't want to go through the logistical effort to actually manufacture and install batteries with different numbers of cells in them. Instead, they'll just make all versions of a model with the long-range batteries and use software to lock down part of the battery pack.
So you buy a vehicle that physically has the ability to travel a certain range, but it's intentionally crippled by software to be restricted to a shorter range. You can at any time pay them an absurd sum to "upgrade" your battery via software update, when in reality you're just removing the software restrictions they've placed on the battery you already own.
And what is so egregious about this is really the environmental issues. Batteries are not easy things to manufacture; their construction requires a lot of very heavy mining, often from places with very poor pollution control and workers rights laws (or outright slavery in some cases.) And if built using these software-control methods, the "short range" battery requires just as much materials and mining pollution as the "short range" battery. Also, even if you buy the short range battery, you still have to pay the energy costs and decreased energy efficiency of hauling around a long-range battery.
And the same thing goes for all software-based upgrades. They all require you to pay the energy cost of hauling around all these locked features and equipment, even if you have no intention of using them.
We are facing a planetary crisis that threatens the very survival of our civilization. We need to increase energy efficiency and transition to a zero-carbon economy as fast as humanly possible. And one of the biggest challenges we're facing is simply producing enough of the raw materials for all the batteries and solar panels we're going to need. This is a non-trivial problem and one of the biggest issues facing the transition to a zero-carbon society.
We're trying to do this. We're trying to open up new mines as fast as possible. Many countries are going above and beyond to do this, even to the point of waiving normal environmental laws and regulatory processes, just to rapidly expand the supply of these elements we so desperately need. Local communities where these often-polluting mines are opening are asked to make a deep sacrifice for the sake of humanity as a whole.
And then there's Tesla, the poster child of modern green industry. And what are they doing? They're pissing in the eye of everyone. They're taking these very valuable batteries, produced at great environmental and fiscal cost, and they're just flagrantly wasting them. They're putting large batteries in cars and then locking them behind software toll booths. Instead of a lower-range car having a lower environmental footprint, they make it so that they have the same environmental footprint. And they even lower the performance of the low range models to do so. Your low-range Tesla model has lower acceleration and longer breaking distance than it should simply because you have to haul around the long-range battery you cannot access.
This shit needs to be illegal. One of the single greatest challenges we, as a species, are going to have to make over the next 10-20 years is simply producing enough lithium, cobalt, and rare earths to move away from fossil fuels. Hell, I would personally support some sort of government rationing system that made sure supplies first went to cheaper options like e-bikes before we used them to build Teslas. But if we're not willing to do that, the least we can do is to make sure companies aren't pissing away rare materials on features their owners can't even access. You want to offer 3 versions of a model with 3 different ranges? Fine, then manufacture those with three different sized battery packs. People can buy what range vehicle they need, and we'll make sure valuable minerals aren't wasted on some hack profit-wringing scheme.
This. Shit. Needs. To. Be. Banned.
I think your point stands with a lot of other hardware, but with batteries it's probably not as bad as it seems.
Batteries should last longer (in terms of cell degradation) if you don't charge or discharge them as much. Same sort of thing with power. A power restriction (both charge and discharge rate) would increase battery lifespan. The cells wouldn't be wasted if the range or power is locked up. Actually, unlocking that range might be paying to waste more resources by burning through your cells faster.
However I think there are downstream consequences of crippling batteries--slowing adoption, etc., to consider.
The base model 3 has a single battery, the long range and performance both have dual batteries.
The long range is meant for long range so you’re expected to drive for efficiency to increase range.
The performance comes with other optimization upgrades like tires and a lifted restriction on the accelerator.
I’m not for anything-as-a-service, but this really doesn’t seem that bad. The monthly charge is for Wi-Fi hotspot and music. Completely unnecessary
It's happening
I get the concern about malicious hacking as well, but it would be great if you could buy a car and not need to hack it or pay to use whe whole thing.
In lieu of actually being able to download a car, I'll take this for now as a way to wave a massive collective middle finger at the people who came up with "you wouldn't download a car."
Imagine a realtor handing you the keys to your new house, "Well here are your keys, you lucky duck. Congratulations! Now, if you want the key for the laundry room for the washer and dryer, you'll need to pay the seller $19.99 a month... For as long as you own the house. Enjoy your new home!"
These arguments always feel so shallow. Like this analogy doesn’t even work considering you do pay for electricity, water, gas, etc with a house. “I want one price to unlock the whole house” okay fine, but what if you want soft close cabinets or a metal roof or an upgraded bathroom? All extra, still the same house though.
The argument that @gowestyoungman makes I feel is quite valid. Tesla (and other car manufacturers) are charging a subscription fee for access to pre existing physical features on the vehicle. Your analogy of buying a house and wanting the electric bill paid with it is equivalent to people buying a car and wanting to have gasoline provided in that cost, which is not the argument being made here.
Edit: in addition to your argument of upgrading the bathroom, this is equivalent to an aftermarket upgrade on a vehicle (fancy sound system, bigger wheels, etc), which again is not the same type of argument being made.
It sorta is though. The model 3 has three purchasing options and one subscription type.
Single motor
Dual motor long range
Dual motor performance with performance upgrades like 20” tires
The $10 subscription is for music and constant internet connectivity. Regular radio is free like normal
Very curious to see how this develops. The eventual court battles coming out of things like this are going decide just how much the future is based around renting products and never being allowed to own them.