Can I hope to defeat telematics in a new car?
Could you recommend a make of vehicle whose spy tech is easy to disable? This is the highest hurdle and single most important factor in my search for a car, so my other preferences and needs fall far second. I would like an electric vehicle or hybrid model with no less cargo room than a Prius, and not larger than a mid-sized station wagon, with a track record of low repairs. Correct me if I'm misinformed, but applying those criteria seems premature until I can identify something I can make private.
I have only ever bought used cars, and have lived the same story many times: I will construct elaborate spreadsheets, research models until I could host a video walk-through of trouble spots to watch for, then will shop and cavil until I make a purchase I'm proud of. Sure, it ends up 25% over my initial budget, but I pat myself on the back for a full 18 months afterwards. Nice work, careful consumer. But it's then the repairs begin, and soon I'm spending $3-4,000 a year maintaining my certified reliable used car.
So, I am searching for a newer used car or a new car whose telematics can be disabled. I have read through discussion boards, but weary quickly at the comments defending the cozy convenience of the corporate surveillance net or chiding people like me for even trying. I don't care. If lacking or disabling spy features means I can't use my car as a phone, that sounds like a win to me. I know a little about cars and have alright technical know-how. Most importantly, I am resolute. I will not drive a car that listens to me or transmits video of my travels. Has anyone had success here?
From my understanding, you can disable it on Toyotas as long as you are fine with not being able to use start/stop in the app or use navigation in the car.
Also, Volkswagens as of my 2018 GTI, at least, still used 3G and the promised free-upgrade to LTE got cancelled so... they don't have any connectivity since since the US 3G network was taken down. I don't know when they stopped using 3G, though, and not sure if 2018 is too old.
E: Regardless, I found this website vehicleprivacyreport.com last week where you can put in a VIN and it'll tell you what data gets collected by the car and how/where to opt-out.
That seems sketchy, I’m not inclined to send my VIN to an unknown website. Can anyone speak to the reputability of this?
Why be protective about the VIN? It’s not private and can, on most (all?) modern cars, be read through the windshield.
No personal opinion as the service isn't relevant to me, but their FAQ seem to be mostly aimed at concerns like yours and a very brief glance at their privacy policy seems to line up with the associated claims in the FAQ. These are still their own claims and justifications so do with them what you will.
Not out yet, subject to change and fine print, but the Slate Truck doesn't have a dedicated modem, and you can apparently choose to run it completely off grid if you wish to.
https://www.theverge.com/electric-cars/676036/slate-auto-faq-truck-ev-specs-price-tariff
JUST SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY ALREADY SLATE!!!
Right? I'm waiting for that truck. Plotting. Scheming, even.
Sadly it will be US only on launch (I'm in Canada) and realistically I don't think I'm in a position financially to buy one in the next few years. Also 2WD only to start with. 4WD isn't an absolute requirement but RWD trucks typically suck so badly in winter that I'm just not doing it.
So being realistic, in 3 to 4 years SLATE CAN SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY! In the meantime I bought a kei truck.
Kei trucks are the best! Which one did you get?
A Subaru Sambar, TT2. My brother has a Suzuki Carry; I would have bought one of those so we could share parts/experience fixing stuff but it was just a little bit smaller inside than the Subaru and that was the difference between me hating every minute of driving it or not.
I havent had real winter show up where I live yet... after a few months of winter I will decide if this purchase was a good or bad idea.
Tell me literally everything about your Kei truck please. If you want.
I don't know what to say about it honestly but I'll try.
'01 Subaru Sambar. SUPERCHARGED!
Its turning radius is tight enough that I can do a u-turn on regular residential streets. I basically never have to do 3-point turns.
It fits in EVERY parking spot. If you've ever been in a smart car, this is a couple inches NARROWER on the outside, but the doors are thinner so theres slightly MORE WIDTH inside. The flipside is that smart cars have a shit-ton of room lengthwise for what they are, and this truck (which is known for having more room in the cab) doesn't really have extra room and I have to sit bolt upright. You can slide the seat forward and then lean it back but I need the knee room.
The HVAC controls remind me strongly of a late 80's Toyota I owned. Super basic but it works really well and it has functioning air conditioning.
There is little or (probably) absolutely no sound deadening. Basically right away I bought a bunch of butyl sheets to help damp it down.
All the metal bodywork above the plastic bumper... thats the same piece of metal as the interior. Theres not much between you and the outside. I hit a big dragonfly on the highway driving it home after buying it. I FELT it.
Speaking of highway... its not fast. Like, in the city it's actually decently quick, it does 0-60 in around 3 seconds I think... 60kph not mph. At 110kph (65mph) it hits the rev limiter. It was a long road trip home because I didn't want to blow up my motor.
As far as doing truck stuff goes... IDK. The bed is really low so it's nice to get heavy stuff in there. It's big enough to move most things I would want to. The only real truck thing I do with it is honestly just getting rid of yard waste. We have gardens, vines, and bushes that all need to be hacked back otherwise the will consume us. If it weren't for that stuff I would have bought the van version of this same truck.
I love it. Kei Trucks strike me as the perfect balance between a light duty pickup and a maintenance golf cart. I've wanted a Kei Truck or Kei Van for years. I'm 6'2" (188cm) though, so I doubt I'd fit. But I still love the concept of smaller more efficient vehicles, hence my '19 Honda Fit from elsewhere in the thread.
Oh man, the Honda Fit is one of the best vehicles ever made. I had one years ago and its the one vehicle I really regret selling.
6'2" is the upper limit of fitting in a kei truck. If you could find a sambar to test drive then it might work.
I love my Fit. I've thought about selling it to get something newer but none of the new stuff impresses me and I don't want some subscription-based model for my car. Cay payments to ownership are already bad enough.
I completely disabled telemetry on my 2021 RAV4 by removing the DCM (data communications module). I drove it from the dealership straight to my local makerspace's parking lot and it took about 90 minutes total. I just needed a trim pry tool and a couple sockets.
I documented the process here:
https://www.rav4world.com/threads/how-to-fully-disable-telemetry-and-have-an-air-gapped-car.343029/#post-3153904
Some later replies mention you might be able to just remove the SIM card near the door which would be way faster.
The answer is always the Miata. Even when it comes to cutting all telemetry and still having your infotainment.
As far as an EV, certainly not a Hyundai with Blue link or a Tesla. If you find one that fits the criteria I'd love to know more about it. Every one of my EVs has been spying on me from Day one. 😭
There's still a Miata?!
Ha, yes! The talk is the next model year or two might finally introduce a hybrid, leading towards an all-EV two seater sports car, carrying forward the idea of a small British roadster into the modern EV Era. I sure hope so!
But, yeah, they're apparently very capable of having all their telemetry removed while keeping infotainment. Might be worth looking into if you are willing to give up on all your silly criteria that don't match the correct answer - the Miata.
I'm obviously joking around a bit. But yeah. It's hard every day to tell myself I shouldn't just go buy a Miata.
Ah, I agree. But I can't ethically justify an ICE for myself anymore. That's all. 🫤
Yeah! If anyone can make an engaging 'driver's car' that can give the same engagement as rowing gears at 8200rpm redline at 33mph ... It's gotta be Mazda! If anyone can do it, they can do it.
I have serious thoughts about taking ownership of one of the last pure ICE manual Miatas. It's that cognitive dissonance and 'its only a weekend car!'
I'm all over the place when it comes to Miata.
♥️
Do it! I have an NA and an NB with a turbo stuffed in.
They're awesome 😎
Miata
Is
Always
The
Answer
My wife and I love ours. I’m a decently sized guy and fit just fine, though I’m still under 6ft.
You can squeeze a surprising amount of junk in the little trunk, and Miata luggage racks are easily the coolest car accessory on the planet.
Get your manual transmission while you can.
I'm still loving my manual, as that's the only fahrvernugen that is available these days!
Also thanks for reminding me I need to get a custom plate "FRVRNGN"!
Either that, or SPCBLLS. But I'd have to buy a frame stating "The license plate".
I feel you. For similar reasons I plan to drive my 2016 Nissan Versa Sedan (that I've owned from new) into the ground. 165,000+ miles on it and going strong.
(No touchscreen, no backup cams, no on star, no electric windows or locks, manual transmission!)
I honestly don't know what I'll do when it gives up the ghost for good; nothing made after 2017 is remotely appealing to me. I look forward to seeing what the people say, OP.
Same. I'm driving my 2019 Honda Fit LX into the ground as well. Might fall apart from disuse rather than over-driving, though. I purchased used with <9k miles on it, in 2019, currently has around 22k on it. I drive it like 60 to 100 miles in a month, maybe, get about 34-ish mpg which would be better if I drove it more often, but when I do it's mostly highway. To be honest, if OP didn't have the EV/Hybrid requirement, this car would probably be perfect with the magic seats and absolute lack of telemetry included.
Wait. So there is a car made in the last 10 years without telematics? I guess I'm going to read up on the Fit LX. Maybe I could benefit from seat magic.
As far as I know. It's got a Sirius XM and I don't have a subscription to that, and it's got some kinda Honda Bluetooth thing that's barely competent. I've got the LX trim the absolute baseline model. It met my criteria:
30+ MPG Town/City
Hatchback
Backup Camera Integrated
ABS or similar (I know to jam the pedal and stand up on it)
Automatic Transmission (never learned stick)
Slow Car Drive Fast
4-Door (not paying that 2-door insurance premium)
Japanese or German
The 2019 Honda Fit LX met every single criteria that I had at the time, and I could afford it. If you find it's got telemetry let me know...
My '19 Honda Civic Si (and my previous '18 Civic EX-T) have the options but can be rejected... at least from what I can tell.
This is me using a car with a manual transmission (which is not standard), but my phone was previously rooted and now is currently on GrapheneOS and there is nothing my car uses, aside from the BT options. No android auto, which borks a lot of options, and fun fact, whatever is going on with GOS atm has some wonky stuff break bluetooth connections... so my sound will crap out and the car is like "I dunno what happened?".
The only one I'm really familiar with disabling was the older Nissan Leaf (don't buy one) where my understanding was you could simply yank the sim card out of the module and it would kill the cell connection just like yanking it from your phone would.
The problem you'll likely run into today is that modern devices are moving towards using ESIM's.
I care about this stuff, I care about right to repair, and I don't want to give my money to shitty companies that are doing shitty things... I gave up when we bought the last family/wife vehicle last year. I "bought" it on a lease so it will be gone before it needs major repairs (I hope) and I hope that when it's time to replace it there will be better options available like the slate. In the meantime if I need to hide a body then I'll use my daily driver which is old enough to not have that stuff.
Would disconnecting the antenna/cellular module not be feasible? Im not a car person at all so I really don’t know if this is actually feasible.
I really don't know what the deal is, I can only speculate but I'm guessing the antenna is either in the module itself or in the shark fin with the other antennas.
I'm trying to look up that kind of info for my wife's current car but I'm kind of hitting a brick wall. Part of the issue is I don't know where to look, the other part is that every time this gets asked in forums or subreddits dedicated to the car most of the responses are suggesting OP wears a tin foil hat or is a criminal.
The most frustrating conversation.
My parents live out in the middle of nowhere so that they have privacy from neighbors just watching them all the time, and still say this when I talk about blocking telemetry on my devices. They don't see a parallel and I do not get it.
I was looking up how to do it on my Crosstrek, and found a whole bunch of people asking about it who clearly did not own the car. Sixteen-year-olds asking how to keep the car from ratting them out to their parents, sort of thing. And they were, rightfully, getting told off. But, like, I'm an adult who actually does own my car, and have very good reason to want it absolutely disconnected from the Internet¹, and so those responses are super unhelpful to me.
This thread is pretty much the best and most mature and productive discussion I've found so far. It's for a different car, but ah well, can't have everything. =P
¹ If it can hurt or kill you, it absolutely must not be connected to the Internet. It's not even a privacy thing, though I have those concerns, as well. If you're not terrified for your safety of your car being remotely accessible, read this article. I'll grant that Subaru is not Chrysler (thank god, lol), but the entire automotive industry is absolute dogshit at security.
You could put it in a Faraday cage troll_grin
I have a few questions for you that might narrow things.
First, which country are you in? I'm assuming the US, but I've been wrong before.
Second, since you're looking for an EV or Hybrid, what's the minimum viable range for you, before you need to gas up or plug in?
Crap. I meant to say, I'm in the U.S. Thanks for asking, so I can clarify.
I would be fine with a range of 150 miles.
150miles = 240KM
Update:
Never one to take the sensible route, I have set my sights on an incredibly tech-intergrated model. There is an option to enable "Privacy Mode" in the MMI, complete with a reassuring admonishment that connected things might stop working when it is enabled. However, the fine print of the owner's manual reveals that the setting only "limits" data transmission.
Research tells me that merely disconnecting the cellular antenna isn't smart: it could damage the radio or end up still connecting with its remaining signal strength.
I can't yet determine if it uses an eSIM or physically removable SIM card, and I can't figure out if pulling the fuses will knock out other features.
I will try to find a schematic, even though I'm not certain I will understand how to translate that into action.
A shop that specializes in aftermarket modifications told me I was the first to ever ask about disabling these things. The dealership sales team, meanwhile, is similarly new to the concept. I will try to get answers from the service advisors, then try calling the manufacturer hotline.
I thought I would update, since it was hard to give advice without having a model in mind. Now, it's probably far too specific!