Neuromancer, as a story, is not particularly noteworthy from today's lens. It had a historical impact, because it was one of the firsts, but we've had a lot of high quality cyberpunk works in the...
Neuromancer, as a story, is not particularly noteworthy from today's lens. It had a historical impact, because it was one of the firsts, but we've had a lot of high quality cyberpunk works in the visual media since then. What Neuromancer pioneered has been integrated and built upon by many cyberpunk works. Historically, it's an interesting piece of fiction, but for a modern audience, I don't think it holds enough uniqueness or complexity to present anything new.
There is also the problem that the book is very short, and it doesn't have enough material for a TV series.
I don't have much reason to expect a quality TV show, unless the producers take extreme liberties that end up being great additions. But honestly, who would expect that from Apple TV?
If they don't cut much from the book, (to say nothing of adding things) I believe it would be enough material to cover 10 episodes at 45 min each. And while certain works like The Matrix and Blade...
If they don't cut much from the book, (to say nothing of adding things) I believe it would be enough material to cover 10 episodes at 45 min each. And while certain works like The Matrix and Blade Runner are/were popular in the mainstream, I don't think there's enough pure cyberpunk works out there that this story and its characters wouldn't be fresh and engaging (cyberpunk is relatively niche in the scope of things). You'd need to have consumed a lot of cyberpunk media and completely skipped Neuromancer in the meantime to yawn at this. And I don't think the overlap in audiences is great enough for that to be very likely. I think this is going to be pretty engaging for a lot of people who haven't read it.
Regarding length specifically, Neuromancer is very dense without being overly descriptive, moreso than any other book Gibson has written, even in the rest of the Spawl series.
For example: he spends about 3 very brief paragraphs describing Case's maiming at the hands of his former employers from whom he stole. In just that short passage, he goes from the US East Coast where he presumably stole the data during a job, to Amsterdam to fence it (where he was caught), then to Tennessee where his nervous system is rendered incapable of jacking in.
That takes a lot of time to tell visually in a way that isn't a shitty montage or rapid cuts - and I'd be baffled if Graham Roland tried either of those two things.
Neuromancer is littered with this kind of stuff. The entire segment of stealing the Dixie Flatline with Yonderboy and his crew from the Sense/Net Pyramid is rough for someone unfamiliar with the cyberpunk genre, which this show will (and should) most certainly attempt to draw in. This means a lot of visual context will be required so vewiers unfamiliar with the genre can keep up.
Plus all the expository stuff that will need to be told visually. You can't have Gibson telling the viewer how shitty Night City is, you have to show it. I expect a lot of very long, lingering shots on scenes similar to Blade Runner and Blade Runner 2049 in order to provide context to the viewer. All that chews up a lot of screentime.
Anyway, Graham Roland has a good track record so I'm going to stay optimistic about Neuromancer. Roland's resume isn't flashy but what's there is rock solid, even if, like me, you're not 100% into it (e.g., Jack Ryan wasn't my cup of tea but I recognize that it's a well produced show and, according to my Tom Clancy superfan father, didn't tarnish Clancy's work).
Edit: I can see them taking a lot of cinematography cues from movies like the Matrix, Blade Runner (and BR 2049), Dredd, Altered Carbon, etc., in order to build the world visually - which is ironic to me since Neuromancer is the root of most of those works.
It's been years since I've read the trilogy. They were some of the first books I bought with my first ever wage back when I got my first job at 18! I absolutely devoured Neuromancer, finished it...
It's been years since I've read the trilogy. They were some of the first books I bought with my first ever wage back when I got my first job at 18! I absolutely devoured Neuromancer, finished it in a day, maybe two max, I couldn't put it down.
I'd forgotten how fun they are and reading your comment has made me want to read through them again!
I've been going through the old sci-fi I enjoyed and Neuromancer did not resonate with me like it did when I was younger. And I can't put my finger on exactly why that is because Count Zero and...
I've been going through the old sci-fi I enjoyed and Neuromancer did not resonate with me like it did when I was younger. And I can't put my finger on exactly why that is because Count Zero and Mona Lisa was far more enjoyable. Maybe the super-AI trope has been played out so much since, or Cases saga wraps up a little to cleanly for the genre. Regardless, I'm always happy to see more cyberpunnk interpretations and I hope they get to move to the other stories in Sprawl world.
But if I could get my dream show, I feel like the world of Snow Crash would be far more relatable with very few updates. Lethal gig-delivery work, hyperinflation, franchised communities that let you live your racist fantasies, the scare of a floating city of illegal immigrants, a niche metaverse with shaky ownership logic. Practically a season of Black Mirror.
But the most important part is the comedy. It feels like cyberpunk projects loose popular appeal because they are going for the bladerunner mood. Deep existential philosophy while the world always blends into the background to the point of blurring together. But the stories I remember are the ones that highlight the unnatural absurdity of a dystopia. Fifth Element, Robocop, Brazil, Dredd and even Cyberpunk2077 are absolutely ridiculous until you realize how terrifying the concepts would really be. Also it took a parody of Super Earth spreading managed democracy across an unwilling galaxy for some people to express their interpretation of military intervention, propaganda and authoritarianism. So I'm curious what the discussion would be around southern themed Apartheid neighborhoods and mainstream evangelical death cults.
For me, what makes Neuromancer stand out for me was the actual writing style. Gibson's beatnik-hardboiled-bleak-poetic lines elevates it over later cyberpunk fiction. (I hated Snow Crash even...
For me, what makes Neuromancer stand out for me was the actual writing style. Gibson's beatnik-hardboiled-bleak-poetic lines elevates it over later cyberpunk fiction. (I hated Snow Crash even though it's a classic of the genre, mostly because I can't stand the way Stevenson writes.)
Not sure how that would translate over into TV; I think part of the magic of Neuromancer is how much is left undescribed.
I'm not familiar with this work, but I first heard about this adaptation yesterday in a discord server when someone posted this Twitter thread from the author and I thought it might be useful for...
I'm not familiar with this work, but I first heard about this adaptation yesterday in a discord server when someone posted this Twitter thread from the author and I thought it might be useful for fans wondering how faithful it will be to the book.
text of the tweets
I’m not going to be answering many questions here, about Apple TV’s adaptation of Neuromancer. I’ll have to be answering too many elsewhere, and doing my part on the production. So I thought I’d try to describe that, my part.
I answer showrunner’s and director’s questions about the source material. I read drafts and make suggestions. And that’s it, really, though my previous experience has been that that winds up being quite a lot of work in itself.
I don’t have veto power. The showrunner and director do, because the adaptation’s their creation, not mine. A novel is a solitary creation. An adaptation is a fundamentally collaborative creation, so first of all isn’t going to “be the book”.
Particularly not the one you saw behind your forehead when you read the book, because that one is yours alone. So for now let’s leave it at that.
I liked the first season. I think the show runners struggled adapting the vibe of the books. One reads foundation for the vignettes of humanity's descent and then rise. Foundation is not a story...
I liked the first season. I think the show runners struggled adapting the vibe of the books. One reads foundation for the vignettes of humanity's descent and then rise. Foundation is not a story about singular characters and that's what the show turned into. I didn't really care about the second season... it doesn't need to be the books but I just didn't care.
It was well produced. I have cautious optimism that Neuromancer might be more amenable to adaption.
Gibson is also still very much alive, unlike Asimov... and I imagine he will exert at least some creative control over the show, so it doesn't go to shit or veer too far from the source material...
Gibson is also still very much alive, unlike Asimov... and I imagine he will exert at least some creative control over the show, so it doesn't go to shit or veer too far from the source material like Foundation did.
Edit: Apparently not. He's going to advise the showrunners, but doesn't have any creative control or veto power.
Which is a pretty good sign they're not planning on/capable of doing decent adaptations that understand the source material so much as just trying to cash in on the name recognition. That said,...
Foundation is not a story about singular characters and that's what the show turned into.
Which is a pretty good sign they're not planning on/capable of doing decent adaptations that understand the source material so much as just trying to cash in on the name recognition.
The first 10 or 15 minutes of the first episode made it clear to me they were going to ruin it. Salvor Hardin and the mathematician as some super important characters that will last throughout......
I liked the first season
The first 10 or 15 minutes of the first episode made it clear to me they were going to ruin it. Salvor Hardin and the mathematician as some super important characters that will last throughout... even mentioning the mule... The rest of that first episode was good but the vibe was kind of off as well. If they could have done a retrofuturism vibe that would have been amazing.
I absolutely hate how most shows now are a soap opera. By that I mean all intrigue and mystery but no substance or payoff all while churning out episodes until they don't get renewed again.
The first book in particular is solid source material; they should have planned that out as a standalone series based on that alone (and maybe the first part of the second book). From there they could have picked sections of the story to do standalone series' based on them.
I don't really think Apple TV has had a miss yet, they are by far the leaders in Scifi Television, this gives me a lot of hope. Once I realized that Foundation was combining a good bit of Asimov...
I don't really think Apple TV has had a miss yet, they are by far the leaders in Scifi Television, this gives me a lot of hope.
Once I realized that Foundation was combining a good bit of Asimov works into one, I realized just how great it was (especially with Lee Pace).
Ironic given that the world continues to move ever closer to cyberpunk. See also https://mastodon.social/@GreatDismal. He may be more active on other socials. 🤷🏻♂️
Ironic given that the world continues to move ever closer to cyberpunk.
Neuromancer, as a story, is not particularly noteworthy from today's lens. It had a historical impact, because it was one of the firsts, but we've had a lot of high quality cyberpunk works in the visual media since then. What Neuromancer pioneered has been integrated and built upon by many cyberpunk works. Historically, it's an interesting piece of fiction, but for a modern audience, I don't think it holds enough uniqueness or complexity to present anything new.
There is also the problem that the book is very short, and it doesn't have enough material for a TV series.
I don't have much reason to expect a quality TV show, unless the producers take extreme liberties that end up being great additions. But honestly, who would expect that from Apple TV?
If they don't cut much from the book, (to say nothing of adding things) I believe it would be enough material to cover 10 episodes at 45 min each. And while certain works like The Matrix and Blade Runner are/were popular in the mainstream, I don't think there's enough pure cyberpunk works out there that this story and its characters wouldn't be fresh and engaging (cyberpunk is relatively niche in the scope of things). You'd need to have consumed a lot of cyberpunk media and completely skipped Neuromancer in the meantime to yawn at this. And I don't think the overlap in audiences is great enough for that to be very likely. I think this is going to be pretty engaging for a lot of people who haven't read it.
Regarding length specifically, Neuromancer is very dense without being overly descriptive, moreso than any other book Gibson has written, even in the rest of the Spawl series.
For example: he spends about 3 very brief paragraphs describing Case's maiming at the hands of his former employers from whom he stole. In just that short passage, he goes from the US East Coast where he presumably stole the data during a job, to Amsterdam to fence it (where he was caught), then to Tennessee where his nervous system is rendered incapable of jacking in.
That takes a lot of time to tell visually in a way that isn't a shitty montage or rapid cuts - and I'd be baffled if Graham Roland tried either of those two things.
Neuromancer is littered with this kind of stuff. The entire segment of stealing the Dixie Flatline with Yonderboy and his crew from the Sense/Net Pyramid is rough for someone unfamiliar with the cyberpunk genre, which this show will (and should) most certainly attempt to draw in. This means a lot of visual context will be required so vewiers unfamiliar with the genre can keep up.
Plus all the expository stuff that will need to be told visually. You can't have Gibson telling the viewer how shitty Night City is, you have to show it. I expect a lot of very long, lingering shots on scenes similar to Blade Runner and Blade Runner 2049 in order to provide context to the viewer. All that chews up a lot of screentime.
Anyway, Graham Roland has a good track record so I'm going to stay optimistic about Neuromancer. Roland's resume isn't flashy but what's there is rock solid, even if, like me, you're not 100% into it (e.g., Jack Ryan wasn't my cup of tea but I recognize that it's a well produced show and, according to my Tom Clancy superfan father, didn't tarnish Clancy's work).
Edit: I can see them taking a lot of cinematography cues from movies like the Matrix, Blade Runner (and BR 2049), Dredd, Altered Carbon, etc., in order to build the world visually - which is ironic to me since Neuromancer is the root of most of those works.
It's been years since I've read the trilogy. They were some of the first books I bought with my first ever wage back when I got my first job at 18! I absolutely devoured Neuromancer, finished it in a day, maybe two max, I couldn't put it down.
I'd forgotten how fun they are and reading your comment has made me want to read through them again!
I've been going through the old sci-fi I enjoyed and Neuromancer did not resonate with me like it did when I was younger. And I can't put my finger on exactly why that is because Count Zero and Mona Lisa was far more enjoyable. Maybe the super-AI trope has been played out so much since, or Cases saga wraps up a little to cleanly for the genre. Regardless, I'm always happy to see more cyberpunnk interpretations and I hope they get to move to the other stories in Sprawl world.
But if I could get my dream show, I feel like the world of Snow Crash would be far more relatable with very few updates. Lethal gig-delivery work, hyperinflation, franchised communities that let you live your racist fantasies, the scare of a floating city of illegal immigrants, a niche metaverse with shaky ownership logic. Practically a season of Black Mirror.
But the most important part is the comedy. It feels like cyberpunk projects loose popular appeal because they are going for the bladerunner mood. Deep existential philosophy while the world always blends into the background to the point of blurring together. But the stories I remember are the ones that highlight the unnatural absurdity of a dystopia. Fifth Element, Robocop, Brazil, Dredd and even Cyberpunk2077 are absolutely ridiculous until you realize how terrifying the concepts would really be. Also it took a parody of Super Earth spreading managed democracy across an unwilling galaxy for some people to express their interpretation of military intervention, propaganda and authoritarianism. So I'm curious what the discussion would be around southern themed Apartheid neighborhoods and mainstream evangelical death cults.
For me, what makes Neuromancer stand out for me was the actual writing style. Gibson's beatnik-hardboiled-bleak-poetic lines elevates it over later cyberpunk fiction. (I hated Snow Crash even though it's a classic of the genre, mostly because I can't stand the way Stevenson writes.)
Not sure how that would translate over into TV; I think part of the magic of Neuromancer is how much is left undescribed.
I'm not familiar with this work, but I first heard about this adaptation yesterday in a discord server when someone posted this Twitter thread from the author and I thought it might be useful for fans wondering how faithful it will be to the book.
text of the tweets
Given their production of Foundation, I’m not optimistic. That show was such a disappointment, and so boring.
I liked the first season. I think the show runners struggled adapting the vibe of the books. One reads foundation for the vignettes of humanity's descent and then rise. Foundation is not a story about singular characters and that's what the show turned into. I didn't really care about the second season... it doesn't need to be the books but I just didn't care.
It was well produced. I have cautious optimism that Neuromancer might be more amenable to adaption.
Gibson is also still very much alive, unlike Asimov... and I imagine he will exert at least some creative control over the show, so it doesn't go to shit or veer too far from the source material like Foundation did.
Edit: Apparently not. He's going to advise the showrunners, but doesn't have any creative control or veto power.
Which is a pretty good sign they're not planning on/capable of doing decent adaptations that understand the source material so much as just trying to cash in on the name recognition.
That said, i'm down for johnny mnemonic 2
The first 10 or 15 minutes of the first episode made it clear to me they were going to ruin it. Salvor Hardin and the mathematician as some super important characters that will last throughout... even mentioning the mule... The rest of that first episode was good but the vibe was kind of off as well. If they could have done a retrofuturism vibe that would have been amazing.
I absolutely hate how most shows now are a soap opera. By that I mean all intrigue and mystery but no substance or payoff all while churning out episodes until they don't get renewed again.
The first book in particular is solid source material; they should have planned that out as a standalone series based on that alone (and maybe the first part of the second book). From there they could have picked sections of the story to do standalone series' based on them.
What drew me into the first season was Lee Pace as Cleon. That performance was excellent.
I would have liked your style of adaption more though.
I don't really think Apple TV has had a miss yet, they are by far the leaders in Scifi Television, this gives me a lot of hope.
Once I realized that Foundation was combining a good bit of Asimov works into one, I realized just how great it was (especially with Lee Pace).
Am I the only one who found Invasion unwatchable? The Japanese->English subtitles were impossible for me to read.
Ironic given that the world continues to move ever closer to cyberpunk.
See also https://mastodon.social/@GreatDismal. He may be more active on other socials. 🤷🏻♂️