20 votes

‘Cowboy Bebop’ canceled by Netflix after one season

44 comments

  1. [24]
    cfabbro
    (edited )
    Link
    Sigh. I was really looking forward to seeing where the story was going to go with Bebop. Fuckin' Netflix. Why is it that every original show they produce that I enjoy seems to gets cancelled so...

    Sigh. I was really looking forward to seeing where the story was going to go with Bebop. Fuckin' Netflix. Why is it that every original show they produce that I enjoy seems to gets cancelled so prematurely?

    RIP All the Marvel shows, Altered Carbon, Lost in Space, Ozark, Sense8, The Dark Crystal, The Get Down, and now Cowboy Bebop.

    9 votes
    1. [5]
      babypuncher
      Link Parent
      You could always watch the original to get the rest of the story.

      You could always watch the original to get the rest of the story.

      4 votes
      1. [4]
        cfabbro
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        I already have. Multiple times. It's one of my favorite animes. But the Netflix adaptation departed from it in a number of fairly significant ways, and also went in a completely unexpected...

        I already have. Multiple times. It's one of my favorite animes. But the Netflix adaptation departed from it in a number of fairly significant ways, and also went in a completely unexpected direction regarding the fates of certain major characters. (being vague to keep it as spoiler free as possible)

        And also worth mentioning is that the anime left a lot of things unresolved and open for interpretation too... so it isn't much better as far as closure goes. :P

        9 votes
        1. [3]
          lou
          Link Parent
          There is also the manga, which was made after the anime. I only read one volume, but it was pretty good.

          There is also the manga, which was made after the anime. I only read one volume, but it was pretty good.

          3 votes
          1. [2]
            cfabbro
            Link Parent
            There is The Movie too, but I consider that to be basically just an extended episode of the original series. I never bothered with the mangas though, so maybe I should finally check them out....

            There is The Movie too, but I consider that to be basically just an extended episode of the original series. I never bothered with the mangas though, so maybe I should finally check them out. Thanks for reminding me of their existence.

            2 votes
            1. lou
              Link Parent
              It's been many years, but from what I remember the manga is solid.

              It's been many years, but from what I remember the manga is solid.

              3 votes
    2. [8]
      vegai
      Link Parent
      Ozark isn't cancelled, I think? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozark_(TV_series)#Season_4_(2022)
      3 votes
      1. [7]
        cfabbro
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        It is. Season 4 is going the be the last season.

        It is. Season 4 is going the be the last season.

        1 vote
        1. [6]
          vegai
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          But is it cancelled or is the story just ending in season 4? I would think these are very different things. I think it might work well -- for instance I thought Breaking Bad was about 2 seasons...

          But is it cancelled or is the story just ending in season 4? I would think these are very different things. I think it might work well -- for instance I thought Breaking Bad was about 2 seasons too long.

          edit actually 1 season too long: somehow I rememember Breaking Bad being 6 seasons but it was actually 5. I think perhaps 2-4 could have been just 2 seasons. But oh well, it's done and a pioneer in many ways and I'm whining at a little detail.

          6 votes
          1. [5]
            cfabbro
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            Yeah, it wasn't necessarily cancelled, per se, but it's not getting a season 5. How much of that was due to Netflix not willing to fund another season, how much was due the actors getting tired of...

            Yeah, it wasn't necessarily cancelled, per se, but it's not getting a season 5. How much of that was due to Netflix not willing to fund another season, how much was due the actors getting tired of being locked into the project after all the delays, and how much was due to it actually being planned that way, who knows. Regardless, I want more!!! :P

            p.s. I 100% disagree about Breaking Bad. I just rewatched it and Better Call Saul again a few months ago in prep for the new season of BCS, and I really like the final 2 seasons of BB.

            4 votes
            1. Eylrid
              Link Parent
              I agree with u/vegai's edit. The beginning of Breaking Bad is good and the last season is some of the best tv ever made, but there is a part in the middle that drags a little. Those middle seasons...

              I agree with u/vegai's edit. The beginning of Breaking Bad is good and the last season is some of the best tv ever made, but there is a part in the middle that drags a little. Those middle seasons could have been condensed a little more. They aren't bad, per se, just a little slow.

              2 votes
            2. [3]
              lou
              Link Parent
              Traditionally, contracts for creative professionals in Hollywood must be renegotiated in the third season or so. A successful show can suddenly become very expensive. That is one of the reasons we...

              Traditionally, contracts for creative professionals in Hollywood must be renegotiated in the third season or so. A successful show can suddenly become very expensive. That is one of the reasons we see so many cancelations around that time.

              1 vote
              1. [2]
                cfabbro
                (edited )
                Link Parent
                Yep, and traditionally around the 100th episode (far less these days) things typically start to get even more expensive due to syndication related contract negotiations. I have an actor friend who...

                Yep, and traditionally around the 100th episode (far less these days) things typically start to get even more expensive due to syndication related contract negotiations.

                I have an actor friend who I went to High School with that starred in a popular AMC show (Hell on Wheels) who talked about how significant getting their 5th seasons was, since after that, the main actors in most shows typically start getting much fatter yearly cheques, often for the rest of their lives, thanks to the residuals.

                2 votes
                1. lou
                  (edited )
                  Link Parent
                  I believe the cutoff for syndication is about 120 episodes. That terrible show with Charlie Sheen, Anger Management, pushed through with huge seasons despite low viewership because they knew...

                  I believe the cutoff for syndication is about 120 episodes. That terrible show with Charlie Sheen, Anger Management, pushed through with huge seasons despite low viewership because they knew they'd get their money back on syndication.

                  If I'm not mistaken, the original Star Trek was saved by syndication. Prime time viewership was pretty low, it was syndication that created the phenomenon.

                  Just some random facts about syndication :P

                  1 vote
    3. [11]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. [10]
        cfabbro
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        When you feel like shitting all over something, just a heads up that doing so in reply to someone who just said that they enjoyed those things and were sad to see them come to an end, is probably...

        When you feel like shitting all over something, just a heads up that doing so in reply to someone who just said that they enjoyed those things and were sad to see them come to an end, is probably not be the best place for that. It will likely make the person you replied to feel pretty crappy, defensive, and potentially a bit angry too.

        5 votes
        1. [9]
          lou
          Link Parent
          I tend to think that certain subjects such as shows and movies are not contentious enough to create any problems. However, that does happen. I didn't really intend to shit on anything, maybe I...

          I tend to think that certain subjects such as shows and movies are not contentious enough to create any problems. However, that does happen. I didn't really intend to shit on anything, maybe I don't know what that means. I'll delete the comment because it is definitely not worth it to deal with some kind of conflict just to state a negative opinion about tv shows.

          5 votes
          1. [8]
            cfabbro
            Link Parent
            It's not that expressing opinions on shows or movies is necessarily contentious in and of itself, but when someone states that they enjoyed certain shows and were sad to see them end, and in reply...

            It's not that expressing opinions on shows or movies is necessarily contentious in and of itself, but when someone states that they enjoyed certain shows and were sad to see them end, and in reply you state they were "not that good", "cheap melodrama", etc. it comes across kinda like you're attacking that person's taste. Thoughtful critique of the shows is one thing, but IMO that wasn't what that felt like... hence my calling it "shitting all over" them.

            Imagine if you said "I really liked X album, and I'm sad the band broke up", and all I said in reply was "That album was terrible, and the band sucks". How would that make you feel?

            7 votes
            1. [7]
              lou
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              Yes I understand completely. I thank you for kindly taking the time to educate me and help improve my online communication. Sadly, asking myself that question is often unhelpful, since the way I...

              Yes I understand completely. I thank you for kindly taking the time to educate me and help improve my online communication.

              How would that make you feel?

              Sadly, asking myself that question is often unhelpful, since the way I feel is generally not a good way to predict what others are feeling. That is why I need good people like yourself to actually tell me.

              6 votes
              1. [6]
                cfabbro
                Link Parent
                Hah, fair enough. By any chance are you on the spectrum? I ask not as an insult, but because my mom's best friend has Asperger syndrome, and she has very similar problems when navigating social...

                Hah, fair enough. By any chance are you on the spectrum? I ask not as an insult, but because my mom's best friend has Asperger syndrome, and she has very similar problems when navigating social situations (which often gets her in a lot of trouble at their golf club and at restaurants ;). And my experience with her is also why I worded things the way I did with you here too, since I kinda felt a similar vibe, and I didn't want to start an argument, but just wanted to let you know how your words made me feel.

                3 votes
                1. [2]
                  PhantomBand
                  Link Parent
                  Not them, but I have Asperger's myself and one big difference I notice between myself and other people with Asperger's is that I'm much more... cautious about what I say in social situations....

                  Not them, but I have Asperger's myself and one big difference I notice between myself and other people with Asperger's is that I'm much more... cautious about what I say in social situations. Never really related to the stereotype of people with Asperger's being overly blunt and insensitive, tbh.

                  Though I do still sometimes make problematic comments occasionally, but it's always accidental. Like, a month or two ago I was discussing people who play their music too loudly in their car with a few coworkers and my boss, and said something like "man, do these people want to go deaf or something?". My boss then replied with "well.. I'm deaf too" in a bit of an awkward way. Things like that.

                  4 votes
                  1. lou
                    (edited )
                    Link Parent
                    I once asked a guy, after a wedding ceremony, if he was going to the reception. "Of course I'm going, I'm the father of the groom", he replied. I knew who he was. Dude helped paying for the whole...

                    I once asked a guy, after a wedding ceremony, if he was going to the reception. "Of course I'm going, I'm the father of the groom", he replied.

                    I knew who he was. Dude helped paying for the whole thing lol

                    3 votes
                2. [3]
                  lou
                  Link Parent
                  I am in the process of getting a diagnosis, but everything points to asperger. So probably yes. Not an insult at all. The way I feel things is so "absurd" that trying to act towards others in the...

                  By any chance are you on the spectrum?

                  I am in the process of getting a diagnosis, but everything points to asperger. So probably yes.

                  Not an insult at all. The way I feel things is so "absurd" that trying to act towards others in the same way that I wish to be treated by them is often a recipe for disaster :P

                  3 votes
                  1. [2]
                    cfabbro
                    (edited )
                    Link Parent
                    One thing that my mom's friend said has worked for her, and so may work for you too, is she tries to imagine how characters in movies would react to what she is considering saying. E.g. If a...

                    One thing that my mom's friend said has worked for her, and so may work for you too, is she tries to imagine how characters in movies would react to what she is considering saying. E.g. If a character in a movie told their friend "You should stop eating so much, you're getting really fat", the character that was said to would probably act shocked, hurt, and respond back angrily.

                    She says she doesn't always understand exactly why people react the way they do, since that's not how she would respond, but since she has seen similar situations play out in film/tv she can at least guess at how her words might be received, which sometimes stops her from saying things she will regret. Granted, she doesn't always successfully stop herself, and so she still inadvertently insults people fairly often, but she did say that technique does help. :P

                    3 votes
                    1. lou
                      Link Parent
                      Love how a TV post became "autism life skills" lol

                      Love how a TV post became "autism life skills" lol

                      7 votes
  2. [5]
    TheJorro
    Link
    The timing is probably what's most disappointing here, it really seems this is more of a matter of how little Netflix really commits to their properties than the quality of the show directly. The...

    The timing is probably what's most disappointing here, it really seems this is more of a matter of how little Netflix really commits to their properties than the quality of the show directly.

    The shame is that there were some really good elements of the show. The actors and sets were well done, especially the guy playing Jet Black who was pitch perfect in every way. What failed it was surprisingly shoddy and incongruent writing, editing, and directing. It really felt like I could have been watching an entirely different show scene-to-scene, it was so haphazard.

    But it wasn't a total wash, plenty of shows have really come into their own and become something special with a followup season when everyone is more comfortable and they tweak a few elements. The show could have been a truly good product with some significant but not production-altering changes. Now it'll simply be yet another footnote in Cowboy Bebop's tragically low star in mainstream pop culture.

    The kneejerk reaction will be to blame the show for its cancellation, but a look at Netflix's history of cancelling quality products (bring back Mindhunter!) has me putting the blame squarely on them.

    8 votes
    1. [4]
      Omnicrola
      Link Parent
      Is that really a fair assessment though? Historically, companies like CBS/ABC/etc rely on ratings to make continue/cancel decisions, which are determined by sampling methods that only gather data...

      it really seems this is more of a matter of how little Netflix really commits to their properties than the quality of the show directly.

      Is that really a fair assessment though? Historically, companies like CBS/ABC/etc rely on ratings to make continue/cancel decisions, which are determined by sampling methods that only gather data from a subset of viewers. So there's some room to fudge things and go with "gut instinct" about how a show might do over time.

      Netflix on the other hand (and the other streaming platforms) have data from every single viewer. And not just if they watched it. They know how soon after launch they watched it, if they re-watched it, what time of day they watched it, and so on. They have a mountain of statistics they can look at, compare to other shows that were successful, and be able to make some pretty solid assertions about "this new show isn't following any of the trends we've seen that indicate it will succeed long term". And they likely have enough data within the first few days to make those assertions.

      Anyway, the point I think I'm trying to eventually arrive at is; I don't think Netflix is any better/worse than previous media companies when it comes to deciding what gets another season and what gets cancelled. I do think that they do it faster though. And I think they can afford to try a lot more things, which on the upside we get to see a lot of interesting weird creativity. On the downside, if the overall percentage of things that succeed remains even roughly the same, we'll still see a larger quantity of things getting cancelled just by virtue of Netflix trying out a larger number of weird things to begin with.

      6 votes
      1. TheJorro
        Link Parent
        Cold, hard data only goes so far though, and metrics are often built with certain outcomes or inputs to be weighed more heavily than others that don't always translate over into real world...

        Cold, hard data only goes so far though, and metrics are often built with certain outcomes or inputs to be weighed more heavily than others that don't always translate over into real world success. Big data makes sense for many things but it's far from foolproof when it comes to artistic works and human audiences. In Netflix's case, it seems like they're tuned to be even more risk-averse than many traditional media companies. Something like the Office (US) would have been cancelled by Netflix right after Season 1, for example.

        It would be one thing if Netflix had a practiced history of building up longrunning shows and knowing what to invest in further, what just needs more time, or what won't work. But they don't really have that either, their big problem is getting a show that will cut through it all and become a mass-market hit and generate a ton of revenue. It really seems like House of Cards was a hit despite them, for example, not because of them. I'm sure they're hoping the Witcher will become the next big hit under their stewardship but, comparing them to Amazon Prime, I'd say Prime has been the streaming platform that has been investing in its original properties better.

        3 votes
      2. [2]
        Eylrid
        Link Parent
        This is wandering off into the weeds, but the difference in business models may make a difference here. Broadcast tv makes money off of advertising which is tied directly to viewership. But...

        This is wandering off into the weeds, but the difference in business models may make a difference here. Broadcast tv makes money off of advertising which is tied directly to viewership. But Netflix makes its money off of monthly subscribers, regardless of how much they watch, as long as they sign up and stay subscribed. If I were Netflix I would be looking at what new users watch, to see what attracted them to sign up, and what content is a good predictor of staying subscribed.

        A show that doesn't get a lot of watch time, but has a high rate of keeping those who watch it around may be more worth it than something that everyone watches but no one thinks twice about when deciding to cancel.

        3 votes
        1. Omnicrola
          Link Parent
          I agree, there's a huge difference in business models. Both for the reason you mention, and in terms of capacity. Broadcast/cable only have 24hr in a day, and they have to maximize how many people...

          I agree, there's a huge difference in business models. Both for the reason you mention, and in terms of capacity. Broadcast/cable only have 24hr in a day, and they have to maximize how many people watch each of those hours. Netflix doesn't care when you watch (or how much, as you mention), and so can make some riskier choices on new content.

          I agree that new viewers are important to them, however I think they also have to prioritize retention. This is probably a lower priority, since a lot of people may stay subscribed just from "inertia" even if they watch only 1-2 things a month. I suspect they're also looking to keep engagement among existing viewers above a certain minimum threshold.

          3 votes
  3. Bullmaestro
    Link
    Feels like yet another botched live action anime adaptation. Netflix have failed to shake that reputation off after Death Note... You're not gonna make a faithful adaptation by swapping settings...

    Feels like yet another botched live action anime adaptation. Netflix have failed to shake that reputation off after Death Note...

    You're not gonna make a faithful adaptation by swapping settings and character details around. It's a bit like how 4Kids and Nelvana create shitty anime dubs through censorship, localization edits, wacky over-the-top voice acting and Westernising character names. Or like how Dragonball Evolution was dogshit because they made Goku, Bulma and Chi Chi American high-schoolers and wrote an (un)original plot that very loosely followed the original manga's conflict with Demon King Piccolo. Or like how Scarlett Johannson was casted to play the lead role of Motoko Kusanagi...

    4 votes
  4. [4]
    babypuncher
    Link
    This was supposed to be an ongoing series? I assumed it was a one-off miniseries just like the original.

    This was supposed to be an ongoing series? I assumed it was a one-off miniseries just like the original.

    3 votes
    1. [3]
      cfabbro
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Based on how they structured it, they were clearly hoping it was going to be an ongoing series. E.g. They only introduced Ed in the last moments of the final episode, and several major plot twists...

      Based on how they structured it, they were clearly hoping it was going to be an ongoing series. E.g. They only introduced Ed in the last moments of the final episode, and several major plot twists were obvious setups for the next season, but will now never get resolved.

      6 votes
      1. [2]
        babypuncher
        Link Parent
        Ah, I didn't know this version only ends about halfway through

        Ah, I didn't know this version only ends about halfway through

        1 vote
        1. cfabbro
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          I don't think it's necessarily accurate to say that. They changed the order of things for the adaptation, and even departed from the original story in a bunch of major ways, which opened the door...

          I don't think it's necessarily accurate to say that. They changed the order of things for the adaptation, and even departed from the original story in a bunch of major ways, which opened the door to many new possibilities for certain characters. So, in some ways, they got all/most the way through the story shown in the original, but in others they barely scratched the surface. And as a result, it's really hard to compare the adaptation to the original in terms of "completion" of the story.

          4 votes
  5. [8]
    Codo_Sapien
    Link
    So does that mean I shouldn't watch the adaptation? I haven't gotten around to it. I agree with the sentiments about the Netflix cancellation policy. For a platform that has seen its fair share of...

    So does that mean I shouldn't watch the adaptation? I haven't gotten around to it.

    I agree with the sentiments about the Netflix cancellation policy. For a platform that has seen its fair share of revivals from IPs it didn't create, it would be damn decent of them to share...

    3 votes
    1. [2]
      cfabbro
      Link Parent
      I personally still think it's worth watching. I enjoyed it. Not as much as the original, but it was still fun.

      I personally still think it's worth watching. I enjoyed it. Not as much as the original, but it was still fun.

      3 votes
      1. Codo_Sapien
        Link Parent
        Cool. It's not off my list, by any means. I'll get around to it when I get to it.

        Cool. It's not off my list, by any means. I'll get around to it when I get to it.

        1 vote
    2. [5]
      guts
      Link Parent
      I feel the oposite to OP and i could not finished after three episodes, maybe if you have never watched the Anime you could like it. I could not stand all the changes they made to the source...

      I feel the oposite to OP and i could not finished after three episodes, maybe if you have never watched the Anime you could like it. I could not stand all the changes they made to the source material and the changes were poorly managed. I did not give it a second chance after reading the writers and producers interview were they stated they fixed things you found on the Anime and adapted on their own way.

      1. [4]
        Codo_Sapien
        Link Parent
        I feel like I'll wind up between you too. I saw the trailer and my immediate thought was that the transition from animation to live-action was not going to work mechanically. Bebop was animated...

        I feel like I'll wind up between you too. I saw the trailer and my immediate thought was that the transition from animation to live-action was not going to work mechanically. Bebop was animated very lean and tight. You can't transition that to live-action easily... The pacing gets all thrown off.

        I feel the same way about that live-action Akira adaptation that's still in the works (I think?). It's just really, really hard to pass the "eye-feel" between mediums.

        That said, I'm not passing complete judgment until I see live-action Bebop.

        1 vote
        1. [3]
          guts
          Link Parent
          Some episodes would have been really expensive to adapt as "Heavy Metal Queen" but more of the problem i find with mostly all Netflix adaptations are the poor writing and the political narrative...

          Some episodes would have been really expensive to adapt as "Heavy Metal Queen" but more of the problem i find with mostly all Netflix adaptations are the poor writing and the political narrative Netflix adds to their shows. Agreed judge by yourself until you watch it :)

          1 vote
          1. Omnicrola
            Link Parent
            I'm curious about this statement. I don't disagree that there are a number of Netflix shows that have political undertones or want to make a particular statement. However I've always attributed...

            the political narrative Netflix adds to their shows

            I'm curious about this statement. I don't disagree that there are a number of Netflix shows that have political undertones or want to make a particular statement. However I've always attributed that to the fact that Netflix doesn't have to make sure that every single show has the maximum possible appeal (like broadcast TV does). So to me it was less that Netflix has some sort of agenda and more that Netflix gets pitched a show from a writer/director that has very overt political messaging, and they say "sure, go for it" instead of trying to mellow it out for a mass audience.

            3 votes
          2. mtset
            Link Parent
            Given that Netflix has been criticized heavily by both reactionaries and progressives over their editorial decisions, I'm curious what you're referring to here.

            the political narrative Netflix adds to their shows.

            Given that Netflix has been criticized heavily by both reactionaries and progressives over their editorial decisions, I'm curious what you're referring to here.

            1 vote
  6. [2]
    moocow1452
    Link
    Is this the biggest profile flop that Netflix has ever had? They've been promoting the hell out of this thing and it doesn't look like it was cheap, so for it to just completely collapse into...

    Is this the biggest profile flop that Netflix has ever had? They've been promoting the hell out of this thing and it doesn't look like it was cheap, so for it to just completely collapse into itself is probably unexpected enough for them to cut it off at the knees.

    Also, I kinda feel bad for Ed's actor whose big debut scene went viral and probably played a substantial part in the narrative of the show getting canned.

    1 vote
    1. cfabbro
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      I don't think so. Marco Polo was probably the biggest flop they have ever had, losing them $200M according to the Hollywood Reporter. And The Get Down reportedly cost $120M for the first season...

      I don't think so. Marco Polo was probably the biggest flop they have ever had, losing them $200M according to the Hollywood Reporter. And The Get Down reportedly cost $120M for the first season and flopped even harder. Both of those were undoubtedly way way more than they spend on Bebop.

      5 votes