I started my career as a developer at EA in 2005, and it was exactly the same sort of thing then. A big part of why I got into finance was that the pay was much higher and the pace is relaxed...
I started my career as a developer at EA in 2005, and it was exactly the same sort of thing then. A big part of why I got into finance was that the pay was much higher and the pace is relaxed compared to video game development. I would say that the environment, in part, made me a more cynical person about the world of work (I would much rather work somewhere that is transparently all about making money than work at a place that does some sort of bullshit dance about "passion", or any Silicon Valley buzzword, when in fact it's also about stacking up the dollar-dollar bills).
Absent some sort of government intervention of huge change in the generational zeitgeist (i.e. something like the younger generation embracing a more collectivist ideology en masse) I don't see this ever changing. There is a long line of young people vying to get into the industry, and it's something the industry is happy to exploit. The average tenure in the industry is not very long (it was 5 years at the time I worked there, right around the time of ea_spouse) so there are few leaders able to organize effectively in the studio. The people who do stay in the industry tend to be the ones who are seeing outsized financial rewards, so there is a lot of survivorship bias. It's also too easy to leave the industry compared to changing the industry. A dev could, for instance, agitate for unionization at their studio, which the owners and publishers would fight. Studios get shut down fairly regularly, and a unionized one would be a big target. The ring-leaders of the unionization effort would likely be blackballed, as well. On the other hand, pretty much any video game developer could easily walk into a quant firm or a fintech outfit for double or triple the salary they are making in video games, be home at 6 or 7 pm every night, and get to experience weekends again. I'm sure finance isn't the only field hoping to recruit these people.
I wonder if this will ever be fixed, unionization might try and happen but how hard is it to outsource game development to Asia if that becomes an issue? This is pretty much the exact problem with...
I wonder if this will ever be fixed, unionization might try and happen but how hard is it to outsource game development to Asia if that becomes an issue? This is pretty much the exact problem with the VFX industry where unionization efforts are stronger than in game development. I suppose voice actors kind of got off easy on that one. It's hard to outsource all your voice acting to Asia.
One advantage to Hollywood already being heavily unionized is that lots of Voice Actors are also protected by the Screen Actors Guild. Game Developer employees don't have that luxury.
One advantage to Hollywood already being heavily unionized is that lots of Voice Actors are also protected by the Screen Actors Guild. Game Developer employees don't have that luxury.
How so? Maybe everybody who plays AAA games by the big studios is perhaps somewhat complicit, but not every publisher/studio has insane demands like that on their employees during crunch time or a...
Anybody who plays video games is complicit in this
How so? Maybe everybody who plays AAA games by the big studios is perhaps somewhat complicit, but not every publisher/studio has insane demands like that on their employees during crunch time or a toxic environment, and IMO the vast majority of the responsibility rests with the studios themselves, their management and stock holders, not the consumers. In a world with perfect information so purchasing decisions were perfectly informed and even then consumers still decided to buy games created by unethical developers, then you could perhaps make the claim that consumers are culpable but that is not the world we live in.
Its also not the customers job to make sure the working conditions are good. Unless its some slave labor in a 3rd world country it should be up to the workers to make sure they are getting a fair...
Its also not the customers job to make sure the working conditions are good. Unless its some slave labor in a 3rd world country it should be up to the workers to make sure they are getting a fair deal.
Welcome to the world under capitalism. We never actually escaped Thomas Hobbes' war of all against all. We just changed the rules of engagement. If you don't look out for yourself, who will?
It's up to the workers to make sure they're getting a fair deal?
Welcome to the world under capitalism. We never actually escaped Thomas Hobbes' war of all against all. We just changed the rules of engagement.
Oh great now I have to go read Hobbes ;-P Thanks @demifiend, you always tie what seem to be disparate things together in a way that makes us see that they're not really so far apart
Oh great now I have to go read Hobbes ;-P
Thanks @demifiend, you always tie what seem to be disparate things together in a way that makes us see that they're not really so far apart
Not always, but I have my moments. Thanks for the compliment regardless, and have fun with Leviathan. PS: You might be tempted to skip to Chapter XIII, Of the Natural Condition of Mankind, but...
you always tie what seem to be disparate things together in a way that makes us see that they're not really so far apart
Not always, but I have my moments. Thanks for the compliment regardless, and have fun with Leviathan.
I started my career as a developer at EA in 2005, and it was exactly the same sort of thing then. A big part of why I got into finance was that the pay was much higher and the pace is relaxed compared to video game development. I would say that the environment, in part, made me a more cynical person about the world of work (I would much rather work somewhere that is transparently all about making money than work at a place that does some sort of bullshit dance about "passion", or any Silicon Valley buzzword, when in fact it's also about stacking up the dollar-dollar bills).
Absent some sort of government intervention of huge change in the generational zeitgeist (i.e. something like the younger generation embracing a more collectivist ideology en masse) I don't see this ever changing. There is a long line of young people vying to get into the industry, and it's something the industry is happy to exploit. The average tenure in the industry is not very long (it was 5 years at the time I worked there, right around the time of ea_spouse) so there are few leaders able to organize effectively in the studio. The people who do stay in the industry tend to be the ones who are seeing outsized financial rewards, so there is a lot of survivorship bias. It's also too easy to leave the industry compared to changing the industry. A dev could, for instance, agitate for unionization at their studio, which the owners and publishers would fight. Studios get shut down fairly regularly, and a unionized one would be a big target. The ring-leaders of the unionization effort would likely be blackballed, as well. On the other hand, pretty much any video game developer could easily walk into a quant firm or a fintech outfit for double or triple the salary they are making in video games, be home at 6 or 7 pm every night, and get to experience weekends again. I'm sure finance isn't the only field hoping to recruit these people.
I wonder if this will ever be fixed, unionization might try and happen but how hard is it to outsource game development to Asia if that becomes an issue? This is pretty much the exact problem with the VFX industry where unionization efforts are stronger than in game development. I suppose voice actors kind of got off easy on that one. It's hard to outsource all your voice acting to Asia.
One advantage to Hollywood already being heavily unionized is that lots of Voice Actors are also protected by the Screen Actors Guild. Game Developer employees don't have that luxury.
I am guessing it's a manner of speech that you say it's a luxury? Because if being in a union is considered a luxury in the US... That's messed up.
As of 2016, only 10.7% of Americans belonged to a union and it's still going down.
Anybody who plays video games is complicit in this -- including me.
How so? Maybe everybody who plays AAA games by the big studios is perhaps somewhat complicit, but not every publisher/studio has insane demands like that on their employees during crunch time or a toxic environment, and IMO the vast majority of the responsibility rests with the studios themselves, their management and stock holders, not the consumers. In a world with perfect information so purchasing decisions were perfectly informed and even then consumers still decided to buy games created by unethical developers, then you could perhaps make the claim that consumers are culpable but that is not the world we live in.
Its also not the customers job to make sure the working conditions are good. Unless its some slave labor in a 3rd world country it should be up to the workers to make sure they are getting a fair deal.
lol that's bullshit, what? It's up to the workers to make sure they're getting a fair deal?
Welcome to the world under capitalism. We never actually escaped Thomas Hobbes' war of all against all. We just changed the rules of engagement.
If you don't look out for yourself, who will?
Oh great now I have to go read Hobbes ;-P
Thanks @demifiend, you always tie what seem to be disparate things together in a way that makes us see that they're not really so far apart
Not always, but I have my moments. Thanks for the compliment regardless, and have fun with Leviathan.
PS: You might be tempted to skip to Chapter XIII, Of the Natural Condition of Mankind, but that might be a mistake.
How do you figure?