15 votes

What do you think of games as a service?

Comment on both the concept (if it works, if it is pro-consumer) and the ever-increasing sizes of games.
For example, Rainbow Six Siege has been receiving steady updates since its release. I find a lot of them fun, but where does it end? Grand Theft Auto V is another game that is quite bloated at this point. Thoughts?

15 comments

  1. [5]
    Heichou
    Link
    This whole "games as a service" tripe gives companies a pseudo-intellectual, lazy way of saying "We're going to put the absolute bare minimum effort into creating the game, ship it with bugs and...

    This whole "games as a service" tripe gives companies a pseudo-intellectual, lazy way of saying "We're going to put the absolute bare minimum effort into creating the game, ship it with bugs and incomplete/broken features, and let the community fix everything for us while we continue to line our pockets with "expansions" and "events". They get to put minimal effort and resources into what is essentially turning homework in late. "Don't worry about making sure a game is playable on launch, just hire a community manager with a big smile, big twitter presence, and create a discord server run by rabid fans and nobody will be able to do anything about about it" seems to be the general consensus on handling games (Most notably, Destiny 2 and R6S).

    I'm not going to be a consumer of what is essentially buying fucking stock in a company and hoping that the value of the "service" I purchased increases over time. The only way these games make money is by releasing more and more content until the game is completely beginner unfriendly and riddled with toxic behavior. Siege provides a few operators and maps a year, and sometimes gets a holiday event, yet they charge up the ass for the content. Even the notion of a "premium" currency in full price video games is a slap in the face and a spit in the mouth. I bought your game for 60 dollars, that you didn't even finish, and now you're telling me that all of my hard work and effort into your product can be circumvented and surpassed by some idiot with a big enough credit card? That, even after paying 60 dollars for an unfinished game, that I have to pay even more money to have the privilege of enjoying myself? Siege is the most egregious of all with this tactic by making the grind for a single operator take upwards of 48 straight matches (unless you use a handy dandy renown booster!). You mean to tell me that, as a company that creates video games, you're not confident enough in your own product doing well that you have to offer pity points to players?

    As you can probably tell, this whole concept makes my fucking blood boil, and I hope you can empathize. I have to have put nearly 400 hours into Destiny 2 so far after playing D1 for even longer. To see Bungie suddenly come down with fucking Amnesia and forget how to make their own game with the release of Destiny 2 was a right head-scratcher. And it's made even worse by the egregiously priced expansions that they promise fixes the mistakes they made. Why should I have to continue paying you money to help you remember how to make your own goddamn game again?

    That was a bit of a tangent, but I firmly believe that this "games as a service" notion is a handy trick that developers/publishers have noticed seems to part idiots and their debit card quicker than essential oils and kombucha tea part cards of soccer moms and devout Christian mothers. And they don't even have to finish the games they create as long as they have friendly enough community faces that tell disgruntled customers "We're looking into it! Have a cat picture lol epic!". And people still eat it up! It threatens to completely pollute the quality of all AAA titles. Thank god for all the AA and Indie companies out there keeping the passion alive.

    I won't even speak of Fallout 76

    26 votes
    1. [2]
      teaearlgraycold
      Link Parent
      It's bizarre to me that there are enough whales out there to make this tactic worthwhile (or enough suckers on the other end of the economic spectrum?). Personally I don't get too upset about it....

      It's bizarre to me that there are enough whales out there to make this tactic worthwhile (or enough suckers on the other end of the economic spectrum?).

      Personally I don't get too upset about it. The only one of these "games as a service" games I've played is Seige. I bought the cheap $20 version because I knew with their pricing model it would never be worth $60 to me. I definitely got my money's worth. I put 90 hours into it and have no interest in playing it any more.

      It seems easy enough to tell before you buy a game if it's going to be a "game as a service". There are so many games out there that AAA devs releasing shit games doesn't ever upset me.

      7 votes
      1. Heichou
        Link Parent
        The problem that I have is that it's damaged and likely will continue to damage series that I'm fond of. I don't like that this issue is so prevalent such that you can tell that they're trying to...

        The problem that I have is that it's damaged and likely will continue to damage series that I'm fond of. I don't like that this issue is so prevalent such that you can tell that they're trying to fuck you over by just looking at the game. It's a little scary because, ultimately, the giants drive the game. Sure, indie artists break the mold every now and then and introduce a new and fun mechanic into the popular games lexicon, but it is still concerning that it's something so easily detectable that still troubles me

        3 votes
    2. [2]
      Gaywallet
      Link Parent
      Re: Destiny 2 Bungie is stuck in a five game contract with Activision for the Destiny games. I'm pretty convinced at this point that Destiny 2 development began very quickly after Destiny...

      Re: Destiny 2

      Bungie is stuck in a five game contract with Activision for the Destiny games. I'm pretty convinced at this point that Destiny 2 development began very quickly after Destiny originally came out and the team developing Destiny 2 was an entirely different team than was developing the original Destiny.

      I'm also nearly positive that they've already started work on Destiny 3 and that they probably did so by the time of, if not very shortly after Destiny 2 came out, meaning we will likely see the same thing happen.

      While I wholeheartedly agree that broken game release early-access cash grabs are fucked (and FO76 is the perfect example that anyone can do this), Destiny 2 wasn't an early access game riddled with game breaking bugs (there are plenty of networking bugs though, that's for sure), they just simply took a working franchise and decided to walk it backwards and revert well regarded changes and I'm fairly certain it's because of the structure of how they are fulfilling their contract.

      2 votes
      1. Heichou
        Link Parent
        That makes perfect sense. Doesn't mean it doesn't suck but I get it lol

        That makes perfect sense. Doesn't mean it doesn't suck but I get it lol

        1 vote
  2. [2]
    meghan
    Link
    Another stepping stone along the path of companies wanting to own what you paid for. On top of what Heichou said about it being exploited for an easy scapegoat, I hate it.

    Another stepping stone along the path of companies wanting to own what you paid for. On top of what Heichou said about it being exploited for an easy scapegoat, I hate it.

    10 votes
    1. Octofox
      Link Parent
      I reject music streaming services for this reason. The music distributors can go out of business and they can ban my account but they can never take the FLACs off my hard drive.

      I reject music streaming services for this reason. The music distributors can go out of business and they can ban my account but they can never take the FLACs off my hard drive.

      5 votes
  3. MimicSquid
    Link
    I like it, and I'm going to use two examples of how it's done well to contrast to the mostly negative responses so far. Kingdom of Loathing: KoL is a free browser game with stick figures and funny...

    I like it, and I'm going to use two examples of how it's done well to contrast to the mostly negative responses so far.

    Kingdom of Loathing: KoL is a free browser game with stick figures and funny writing. I've been playing it (off and on) since 2006. I buy the item of the month each month for $10 so that the developers can keep making content and so that this thing that has been a part of my life for so long will continue.

    Paradox Interactive: Developers of such Grand Strategy games as Crusader Kings, Europa Universalis, Hearts of Iron, and Stellaris, their model is to release a functional base game, and then provide significant expansions every few months. For the games I'm interested, I buy the expansions because I enjoyed the game as it was and I love learning more about things I'm good at. As such the ever-changing meta from the changes in the expansions continually tickle my interest.

    These aren't "services", quite, but in both cases there is an understanding between the developers and the community that the game will continue to grow and change as long as people are interested (and show their interest by being willing to pay for development) and if the interest isn't there, the developers and players both will go off and do something else.

    5 votes
  4. Emerald_Knight
    Link
    Honestly, I miss the days of plug and play gaming. Insert disc/cartridge and never, ever have to install a patch. Transfer said disc/cartridge to anyone at any time and never worry about the game...

    Honestly, I miss the days of plug and play gaming. Insert disc/cartridge and never, ever have to install a patch. Transfer said disc/cartridge to anyone at any time and never worry about the game becoming unavailable due to a company going under. Never have to spend potentially hours on a shitty internet connection waiting for a required patch to download just so you can continue playing (especially if you only intend to play offline).

    Moreover, there are very few games that support local multiplayer, and seemingly none whatsoever that have LAN support, so you need to have a decent internet connection and enough hardware to play with multiple people. That's a serious hit below the belt for lower-income families who want to play together but have to save up just for the one console (basically the story of my childhood).

    There's nothing inherently wrong with games as a service, but they've pretty much completely taken over and there's just not the same emphasis on offline reliability and playability that there used to be.

    Maybe I'm just biased and viewing the days of four-player splitscreen on small CRT TVs and in-person trash-talking through rose-colored glasses.

    5 votes
  5. BlackLedger
    Link
    To me, it depends a lot on how games are structured. I started gaming on the PC when games came on a bunch of floppy disks in a box. If you had the misfortune of buying a game that needed to be...

    To me, it depends a lot on how games are structured.

    I started gaming on the PC when games came on a bunch of floppy disks in a box. If you had the misfortune of buying a game that needed to be patched, they might send you a disk with the patch for the cost of shipping and handling. Even though there were software licenses, the experience was much more like buying a packaged good. When you beat the game you were probably done with it. I think Civilization was the first game I ever owned up until that point that I played through more than once.

    Today you'll find games where your involvement with the company is just beginning when you purchase it. They're keeping servers up, not only patching but tweaking the game, possibly releasing new content, etc. "Service" doesn't quite capture it but it is probably the closest model that you can translate from other industries.

    3 votes
  6. [5]
    Gyrfalcon
    Link
    I read your title and interpreted it entirely differently from how your description and the comments have it! Here's my slightly different perspective. In my mind, games as a service are already...

    I read your title and interpreted it entirely differently from how your description and the comments have it! Here's my slightly different perspective.

    In my mind, games as a service are already what we have with Steam/Orgin/Battlenet/etc. If those platforms disappeared tomorrow, I would not know how to hold on to the titles I purchased through them. In most cases, I might not even have the legal right to the games I purchased if these platforms were gone or decided I shouldn't have them. Though overall, I think digital distribution is a godsend for gaming, the thought that if Valve shut down my games would be gone is disturbing to me.

    1 vote
    1. [4]
      Weldawadyathink
      Link Parent
      Valve has said that, if they ever shut down, they will release updates to all games to remove steamworks drm and let people download and backup their owned games. Of course, take this with a pound...

      Valve has said that, if they ever shut down, they will release updates to all games to remove steamworks drm and let people download and backup their owned games. Of course, take this with a pound of salt. They could change their mind, or get bought by another company that doesn't like that idea, or something else. Also, if steamor another service did fold, I would have no issues 'pirating' all of the games I owned.

      2 votes
      1. [3]
        TheJorro
        Link Parent
        I once tried to find where Valve ever said that and came up empty. Seems to be more of an urban legend than anything else.

        I once tried to find where Valve ever said that and came up empty. Seems to be more of an urban legend than anything else.

        3 votes
        1. [2]
          cfabbro
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          It's not really an urban legend... it's included in their standard form-letter response when you ask Steam support what will happen if they shut down: http://i.imgur.com/4sa1Ln6.jpg...

          It's not really an urban legend... it's included in their standard form-letter response when you ask Steam support what will happen if they shut down:

          Hello [username],

          Thank you for contacting Steam Support.

          In the unlikely event of the discontinuation of the Steam network, measures are in place to ensure that all users continue to have access to their Steam games.

          If you have any further questions, please let us know - we will be happy to assist you.

          http://i.imgur.com/4sa1Ln6.jpg
          https://forums.evga.com/download.axd?file=0;446772&filename=Capture2.PNG

          However it should be noted that in the Steam Subscriber Agreement there is a section specifically about "no guarantees" regarding access:

          C. NO GUARANTEES

          TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, NEITHER VALVE NOR ITS AFFILIATES GUARANTEE CONTINUOUS, ERROR-FREE, VIRUS-FREE OR SECURE OPERATION AND ACCESS TO STEAM, THE CONTENT AND SERVICES, YOUR ACCOUNT AND/OR YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS(S) OR ANY INFORMATION AVAILABLE IN CONNECTION THEREWITH.

          And they have a section on account termination that is equally protective (of themselves):

          C. Termination by Valve

          Valve may cancel your Account or any particular Subscription(s) at any time in the event that (a) Valve ceases providing such Subscriptions to similarly situated Subscribers generally, or (b) you breach any terms of this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use). In the event that your Account or a particular Subscription is terminated or cancelled by Valve for a violation of this Agreement or improper or illegal activity, no refund, including of any Subscription fees or of any unused funds in your Steam Wallet, will be granted.

          So how much you choose to believed that "measures are in place to ensure that all users continue to have access to their Steam games" is entirely up to you. If Steam does shuts down I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for access to my games though, but TBH I also don't think Valve will go out of business any time soon given the insane amount of reserve cash and capital they no doubt have, so the issue is probably not worth worrying about from a practical perspective. However the concern over all of us not truly owning the games we “purchase” anymore is another matter entirely though.

          4 votes
          1. TheJorro
            Link Parent
            Well I'll be damned. I'm super glad it's real, I wanted it to be but couldn't find it before. I guess I never thought to just ask them directly!

            Well I'll be damned. I'm super glad it's real, I wanted it to be but couldn't find it before. I guess I never thought to just ask them directly!

            2 votes