If you could buy shares in an open-source project, now would be a good time to invest in LMDE
If you could buy shares in an open-source project, now would be a good time to invest in LMDE
Its main goal is for the Linux Mint team to see how viable our distribution would be and how much work would be necessary if Ubuntu was ever to disappear. LMDE aims to be as similar as possible to Linux Mint, but without using Ubuntu. The package base is provided by Debian instead.
Yup, if this continues as the disaster it seems to be, I imagine LMDE will get a lot more attention. Hell, even if it's cleared up, I think the regular reminder that relying on Canonical is...
Yup, if this continues as the disaster it seems to be, I imagine LMDE will get a lot more attention. Hell, even if it's cleared up, I think the regular reminder that relying on Canonical is dangerous could do them so good.
I know I already moved (to Debian Sid), and I think we're in for a lot of moving around as far as desktop Linux goes. There are few things that spur nerds into action like a threat to their vidya games.
Well that was unexpected, I support Canonical's decision, but with Valve jumping ships like that I have no idea how that would turn out for Ubuntu. It's not all doom and gloom, since you can...
Well that was unexpected, I support Canonical's decision, but with Valve jumping ships like that I have no idea how that would turn out for Ubuntu. It's not all doom and gloom, since you can install Steam via Flatpak, and FlatHub offers it's own multilib to go with it. It's a decent compromise, and Flatpak shines here as a multiplatform choice, I used to run their Steam on my Gentoo install, had no problems with it.
I have two questions, as a non-PC gamer but long time linux user. First, is 32bit support really still a thing people need? I haven't had a 32 bit cpu for over 15 years. If so, what for? Second,...
I have two questions, as a non-PC gamer but long time linux user. First, is 32bit support really still a thing people need? I haven't had a 32 bit cpu for over 15 years. If so, what for?
Second, why wouldn't Valve just work with Debian? Out of the box Debian supports every architecture under the sun and it's perfectly usable out of the box these days, even for someone who has never used a Linux-based system before.
Yes, if you need to run 32-bit applications (which, according to some random person on reddit, is at least every game built before 2014 or so). For context, Ubuntu developer Alan Pope tried 6...
is 32bit support really still a thing people need? I haven't had a 32 bit cpu for over 15 years. If so, what for?
Yes, if you need to run 32-bit applications (which, according to some random person on reddit, is at least every game built before 2014 or so). For context, Ubuntu developer Alan Pope tried 6 random games from his GOG library on an Ubuntu VM without 32-bit libraries, and only a third of them worked.
why wouldn't Valve just work with Debian?
Probably they are hesitant to recommend Debian because of the need of many users to manually install Nvidia GPU drivers, for which there is a significant amount of packaging work done in Ubuntu, so installing the drivers in Ubuntu is very easy. I think it is harder to get Nvidia GPUs working properly in Debian.
Oh OK. Seems strange of developers to work that way but if that's how it is, that's how it is. I'm sure there's a reason I'm not aware of. On the second point I've never had an issue with Nvidia...
Oh OK. Seems strange of developers to work that way but if that's how it is, that's how it is. I'm sure there's a reason I'm not aware of.
On the second point I've never had an issue with Nvidia hardware under Debian. I don't currently have such luxuries as a Big GPU but iirc the debian-multimedia repository Just Works. If not they do have an installer script which isn't very challenging and could probably be automated (if it hasn't been already)
Could someone tell me if I'm wrong in stating the following: Ubuntu's drop of 32-bit librairies does not mean that you can't run 32-bit librairies anymore, just that they'll stop providing them...
Could someone tell me if I'm wrong in stating the following: Ubuntu's drop of 32-bit librairies does not mean that you can't run 32-bit librairies anymore, just that they'll stop providing them through their package repositories.
If that's the case, then can't Valve just take on that role for their Proton efforts? They have Steam and a lot of server farms, they could honestly do that, couldn't they?
I'm really ignorant of those topics, care to explain the following? Does having a PPA equate "Valve [taking] on that role for their Proton efforts" ? Is that the only solution that you can...
I'm really ignorant of those topics, care to explain the following?
Does having a PPA equate "Valve [taking] on that role for their Proton efforts" ?
Is that the only solution that you can foresee?
Is using a PPA at all a terrible idea?
Do you think "[providing] every 32bit library on earth" is a fair characterisation of what I've talked about when the topic of discussion is Proton, which suggests that the amount of librairies needed would be lower, as they would need to be related to Wine and 3D graphics in general
I'm sure they could but I don't know why they would. Maintaining 32bit libs isn't just a matter of server farms as you put it, you need people to update and test the libraries when they update,...
I'm sure they could but I don't know why they would. Maintaining 32bit libs isn't just a matter of server farms as you put it, you need people to update and test the libraries when they update, troubleshoot compilation issues, handle the inevitable bugs that slip through QA, coordinate with upstream and/or Ubuntu if those bugs end up exposing an issue on their end, etc.
Hiring people with the necessary expertise (or taking those people off existing projects) to maintain the stack of libs needed from glibc on up to all the OS bits their games depend on doesn't really make sense when there are distros out there with perfectly good multilib support. Sure it will suck for their users in the short term, but based on their tweet I'm guessing they weighed user experience against the level of effort required and decided against it.
Just my 2c from the perspective of someone who's dabbled in package management a bit. Unless you have specific needs that can't be addressed by what's out there, it's almost always better to build on what exists than to roll your own, IMO.
Thanks for the explanation, it seems I underestimated the amount of work that goes into package management. I think I understand both sides better, Ubuntu wanting to reduce costs and Valve...
Thanks for the explanation, it seems I underestimated the amount of work that goes into package management. I think I understand both sides better, Ubuntu wanting to reduce costs and Valve searching to avoid putting on more costs.
I'm not versed in this stuff sorry, but I am currently playing Borderlands 2 which says it's 32-bit, but my Windows 10 is 64-bit. So what does this mean?
I'm not versed in this stuff sorry, but I am currently playing Borderlands 2 which says it's 32-bit, but my Windows 10 is 64-bit. So what does this mean?
If you could buy shares in an open-source project, now would be a good time to invest in LMDE
Yup, if this continues as the disaster it seems to be, I imagine LMDE will get a lot more attention. Hell, even if it's cleared up, I think the regular reminder that relying on Canonical is dangerous could do them so good.
I know I already moved (to Debian Sid), and I think we're in for a lot of moving around as far as desktop Linux goes. There are few things that spur nerds into action like a threat to their vidya games.
If regular Mint keeps shipping 32bits, I don’t see why LMDE would be a better option.
They do have a way. It would not be easy, but they do.
I personally really like Fedora.
Well that was unexpected, I support Canonical's decision, but with Valve jumping ships like that I have no idea how that would turn out for Ubuntu. It's not all doom and gloom, since you can install Steam via Flatpak, and FlatHub offers it's own multilib to go with it. It's a decent compromise, and Flatpak shines here as a multiplatform choice, I used to run their Steam on my Gentoo install, had no problems with it.
Dropping 32 bit was really a long time coming and I expect most distros to do so some time soon.
I have two questions, as a non-PC gamer but long time linux user. First, is 32bit support really still a thing people need? I haven't had a 32 bit cpu for over 15 years. If so, what for?
Second, why wouldn't Valve just work with Debian? Out of the box Debian supports every architecture under the sun and it's perfectly usable out of the box these days, even for someone who has never used a Linux-based system before.
Yes, if you need to run 32-bit applications (which, according to some random person on reddit, is at least every game built before 2014 or so). For context, Ubuntu developer Alan Pope tried 6 random games from his GOG library on an Ubuntu VM without 32-bit libraries, and only a third of them worked.
Probably they are hesitant to recommend Debian because of the need of many users to manually install Nvidia GPU drivers, for which there is a significant amount of packaging work done in Ubuntu, so installing the drivers in Ubuntu is very easy. I think it is harder to get Nvidia GPUs working properly in Debian.
Oh OK. Seems strange of developers to work that way but if that's how it is, that's how it is. I'm sure there's a reason I'm not aware of.
On the second point I've never had an issue with Nvidia hardware under Debian. I don't currently have such luxuries as a Big GPU but iirc the debian-multimedia repository Just Works. If not they do have an installer script which isn't very challenging and could probably be automated (if it hasn't been already)
Could someone tell me if I'm wrong in stating the following: Ubuntu's drop of 32-bit librairies does not mean that you can't run 32-bit librairies anymore, just that they'll stop providing them through their package repositories.
If that's the case, then can't Valve just take on that role for their Proton efforts? They have Steam and a lot of server farms, they could honestly do that, couldn't they?
No, using a PPA to provide every 32bit library on earth is a terrible idea that should never be attempted.
I'm really ignorant of those topics, care to explain the following?
They wouldn't need to use a PPA; they could just spin up their own repository.
I'm sure they could but I don't know why they would. Maintaining 32bit libs isn't just a matter of server farms as you put it, you need people to update and test the libraries when they update, troubleshoot compilation issues, handle the inevitable bugs that slip through QA, coordinate with upstream and/or Ubuntu if those bugs end up exposing an issue on their end, etc.
Hiring people with the necessary expertise (or taking those people off existing projects) to maintain the stack of libs needed from glibc on up to all the OS bits their games depend on doesn't really make sense when there are distros out there with perfectly good multilib support. Sure it will suck for their users in the short term, but based on their tweet I'm guessing they weighed user experience against the level of effort required and decided against it.
Just my 2c from the perspective of someone who's dabbled in package management a bit. Unless you have specific needs that can't be addressed by what's out there, it's almost always better to build on what exists than to roll your own, IMO.
Thanks for the explanation, it seems I underestimated the amount of work that goes into package management. I think I understand both sides better, Ubuntu wanting to reduce costs and Valve searching to avoid putting on more costs.
I'm not versed in this stuff sorry, but I am currently playing Borderlands 2 which says it's 32-bit, but my Windows 10 is 64-bit. So what does this mean?