8 votes

The case against open-world games - Grand Theft Auto set the standard, and video games have been worse off ever since

14 comments

  1. [2]
    babypuncher
    (edited )
    Link
    This author seems to misunderstand the purpose of an open world. It isn't necessarily to be filled with "stuff", but instead to provide a sandbox for non-linear and emergent gameplay. As such, I...

    This author seems to misunderstand the purpose of an open world. It isn't necessarily to be filled with "stuff", but instead to provide a sandbox for non-linear and emergent gameplay. As such, I reject the premise that open world games are automatically worse than the alternatives just because not all things within the open world are equally interactive.

    In the case of Grand Theft Auto, the primary mechanics of the game are built on driving cars. The open design of these large cities allows for player freedom in routing between objectives. It turns cop car chases from linear scripted events into these hair raising moments of emergent gameplay where it seems anything can happen. Environment traversal is not a chore, it is the primary means by which the game generates "fun". None of this requires the player to be able to walk into and interact with the buildings placed in the open world.

    The Grand Theft Auto games are also aware that the open world really is built for driving. When a mission transitions from driving to shooting, the player gets funneled into either a purpose built arena or linear shooting gallery.

    Where other open world games often fall apart is when they make traversal feel like more of a chore. This is a problem the Assassin's Creed games started running into when they moved away from dense vertical cities like Venice to wide open landscapes such as the entirety of Greece. Climbing buildings and getting from point A to point B as Ezio in Assassin's Creed II was fun. Setting a waypoint on my map, getting on my horse, and briefly holding down A to toggle auto navigation in Assassin's Creed Odyssey is boring and a waste of my time.

    26 votes
    1. Apos
      Link Parent
      I liked the game a short hike. The creator gave a talk about how he went about designing the open world which was interesting. I also liked some of the Far Cry games. In Far Cry 4 it was so cool...

      I liked the game a short hike. The creator gave a talk about how he went about designing the open world which was interesting.

      I also liked some of the Far Cry games. In Far Cry 4 it was so cool to travel in the shitty helicopter just looking at the scenery and the various scenarios happening down below.

      5 votes
  2. [9]
    TheJorro
    Link
    I've been thinking about this for the last couple of days. Not sure entirely why, it's not like there's anything new in this piece—it's the same argument against open worlds that have been around...
    • Exemplary

    I've been thinking about this for the last couple of days. Not sure entirely why, it's not like there's anything new in this piece—it's the same argument against open worlds that have been around for years. It's all technically true but that's because it's just an argument of tradeoffs.

    I don't gel with the spirit or tone much since it's an argument of tradeoffs, and I remember living through this when the shoe was on the other foot and being linear was somehow inherently worse for reasons of tradeoffs. As someone who loves linear games and feels they result in consistently better experiences, I have to recognize that open world titles can do something similar in ways that linear games can't do it.

    Ultimately I think the quality of an open world itself depends on how much a player can and will engage with it. As @babypuncher noted, travel is one of the main components that players engage with the world. The author actually touches upon this in the last paragraph too, there's a key observation in here:

    It’s not game devs’ fault that these games are so boring; it’s the design itself that constrains them from focusing the player on the aspects that could really shine. Freedom of movement through a game world is great, in theory, but in practice, players benefit more from clear direction to the core experience rather than having to trudge through 17 identical fetch quests in the hopes that something funny or interesting will finally present itself.

    Thinking back to a lot of open world games, especially the Ubisoft ones, this really rings true. The game world is effectively dead outside of prescribed activities. As much as I really enjoyed Far Cry 3 and Assassin's Creed Origins, their followups have lacked the same appeal simply because the novelty is gone and the checklist style of gameplay is felt. I'm replaying Far Cry 3 after not really enjoying 4, 5, or 6 all that much to see if I could recapture what was interesting about it... and I'm finding myself not enjoying it like the rest of them. The problem is that there's nothing really to do on this tropical paradise beyond just shooting enemies that keep showing up as I go from A to B. Sure, there are other activities but they're all the same kind of activities so

    I'm basically just picking if I want to do Activity A, B, or C at any given moment based on what I feel like doing, and then travelling to that destination while keeping my eyes more on the minimap for herbs than I am on the road. I'm not driving, I'm just biding time and resource gathering as I travel. What little exploration I can do is really in service of another activity. There's a diamond chest in this small ruin, find the entrance, and get your shinies. Cool.

    But at no point do I find myself simply enjoying the world. Every time I try, here's some enemies rolling by to instigate a shootout. There's no sense of discovery since everything is marked and delivered to me already via the map. The most unique experiences really are the story missions, and then the question I have is if it was worth having an open world at all when all the best parts of these games are the linear bits, and my entire playtime is boiling down to searching for linear experiences and minimizing the time spent in the open world.

    I'm thinking back to my experiences with the weirdly contentious Witcher 3 and wondering what it is that made me have a great time in it even though many other people find it as rote and dry as another Ubisoft open world. I think it was a combination of things I set before I started, and didn't really put much thought into at the time since I was excited to have a new graphics card that could max out the graphics at a 60 fps average and wanted maximum immersion:

    • used mods to disable the HUD and minimap
    • set the game to the hardest difficulty
    • didn't use fast travel

    And I had a great time in Witcher 3's world. On paper, so much of it should have been similar to the AC or FC games but something felt different. Traversing the wilds was fraught because monsters lived in certain areas and biomes, and I didn't know if I would trip into a pack of wolves, or find a bounty well beyond my level. With the heightened combat difficulty, rolling and Quen weren't instant-win mechanics like I've heard they are on lower difficulties, so it required building a familiarity and comfort with the combat mechanics, including potions and oils. Without the minimap, I had to keep my eyes on the road, fields, and trees ahead to see what was lurking in the distance. Tripping over all the small quests in the wilds felt more natural, and the ones that turned out to entire hidden sidequests ended up being extremely memorable gaming experiences. The villagers stayed around town and were mostly not interactable but the regularity with which you could interact with towns smoothed that out: message boards for hunts; merchants, blacksmiths, and vendors in the market areas; bartenders and Gwent gamblers in the pubs. Going into a town in a medieval setting, especially one filled with bandits, monsters, and soldiers, really felt like the reprieve it should have.

    Such minor changes, snowballing into what almost feels like a fundamental difference. But it isn't one! It's just a matter of some tweaks in settings and an experience in an open world can be transformed significantly. That said, I'm not sure if it's possible to turn those AC and FC games into an experience like Witcher 3 with the settings I had because there are a few key differences (monster biomes vs. enemies spawning around you, primarily), but from a developmental and critical standpoint, this is effectively what I know to look for when I approach a new open world game.

    I've actually been replaying the original 3D GTA titles over the past few months of pandemic living, just to relive the experience of the games but with some modern QoL improvements (shoutout to Abysswalker's "Definitive Edition" mod packs on Steam for these titles, which have proven to be a more true "definitive edition" than the recent official re-release). And they really hold up just fine as open world games. Going through the world in each of these games is still a lot of fun, and there's plenty to explore and find still. What I found held up well from these games is how much they let the worlds just be, despite the player. You can stand on any corner in these games and watch life go by. The city is bustling, there are all kinds of people and cars passing by, and different neighbourhoods bring different vibes, attitudes, and people. In these GTA cities, it's easy to know and understand when you're in a new district or a new neighbourhood of a new and unfamiliar city, similar to how it can be when you visit a new city in real life.

    These worlds still feel alive, and don't necessarily feel like they need to revolve around the player. Really, the player is the real interloper in these worlds and GTA is really a power fantasy in this way. Importantly, the feeling I got was that all the carnage and destruction you can cause in these games wouldn't be nearly as impactful and interesting if the world didn't feel so alive. Far too much ink has been spilled about the nature of GTA violence specifically, and I really think it's something that would not make sense if it weren't for the artistry that went into making the world feel alive.

    And when I went back and tried Saints Row, I felt this difference pretty heavily. The Saints Rows worlds feel so much more dead than the GTA ones. Even though they have a lot of similar features on paper, I can't stand on a corner and feel like the world is passing me by. They're less dense, nobody is really interacting all that much, and there's no distinct neighbourhoods beyond which gang is found where. Even in terms of exploration, there's somehow less to discover and find than in the GTA cities, which are much more densely detailed (moreso as the games went on). Ultimately, the Saints Row games, though still enjoyable and fun, don't really engage me in the same way as the GTA titles. In terms of the open world, I remember so much of the worlds of the GTA games but almost nothing about the Saints Row cities as a result.

    I can understand why GTA3 and VC lit an absolute fire under the games industry and the quest for open world gameplay. It was a world that felt alive for once, and that's what so many open world games don't nail down well at all. An alive world is inherently engaging, and activities and things to do in them are truly secondary. Sometimes even tertiary in notable cases.

    I think the best open world video game experience I've had, or at least the one that lives in my head the most, are the STALKER games (Shadow of Chernobyl or Call of Pripyat specifically). The ALife engine for the AI is nothing short of incredible, something Bethesda should have targeted and prioritized ten years ago to really elevate their open world games. Every enemy creature and NPC had its own schedule, goals, motivations, and more, and would live their lives despite you. You could stand still for 10 hours, and the game world would travel around, interact, and change without any intervention required. These games are set in otherwise barren, post-apocalyptic wasteland with sparse life, but had realistic gameplay especially in regards to combat. It's a wonderful confluence of a strange, alien world that's convincingly alive, but grounded in realism so that navigation and survival is innate to the player, and the Breath of the Wild-like systematic approach to gameplay meant that anything and everything you did had the same stakes all the way through. Walking from one town to another on a fetch quest could be just as treacherous as doing it on a story quest.

    Since I brought it up, I would be amiss to not mention BotW in regards to open world games that are alive and engaging. And it's also a bit controversial in this way since many find the world barren or empty, with not much to discover—and other people feel the opposite. I find this one to be an interesting test case for my own preferences and biases since BotW is supposed to be empty and barren with nothing to do but combat and puzzle dungeons. They're rote activities. But it's surprisingly engaging because it offers you nothing but freedom to do whatever you like in an otherwise dead and largely empty world, and whatever you like includes some highly complex interactions between items you can use and items in the world. I find it interesting to test my personal preferences because I usually dislike freeform sandbox style games. Minecraft, endless survival games, even just messing around in GTA Online with no objectives—none of this is for me, honestly. I like having structure and form to my video games and BotW lacks a lot of it in traditional senses. And yet I felt rather engaged with the world because there was so much I could do and in it. The BotW GDC talk goes into a lot of detail from many of the devs on the main aspects and designs of the game that go almost entirely unnoticed but very much felt.

    BotW is an outlier specifically because its world does not feel alive for the most part, and the appealing part of exploring its world is when you do find life after all. I think this is the interesting triumph of the game: it lets you do whatever because nothing should matter in a dead world, until you discover there is still life surviving. Towns still exist, animals are plentiful, and the forest sprites are gathering again. Link has arrived in a crucial moment where he can put an end to the cancer that has been stifling the world, allowing for life to come back. It's an engaging theme played out only through the feel of the world and nothing else, really, and it's a good substitute for an "alive" world: a purposeful world.

    To cap this off, I encourage everyone to think about an open world game you enjoyed and try to figure out what it was about that open world that pulled you in so much. I'm sure everyone has a subset or type of open world that they enjoy. "Open world games" is such a vague and non-descriptive term for so many different sorts of games and experiences. Some people prefer the Ubisoft style approach, other people want the opposite and want no rules or structure. Dismissing the entire concept is a cheat code to lock one's self out of some truly unique experiences.

    11 votes
    1. [5]
      kfwyre
      Link Parent
      Fantastic post, TheJorro. This is a wonderfully thoughtful writeup. My favorite open world is FUEL. The game is, by all accounts, even my own, not a great one. The main selling point was its...

      Fantastic post, TheJorro. This is a wonderfully thoughtful writeup.

      To cap this off, I encourage everyone to think about an open world game you enjoyed and try to figure out what it was about that open world that pulled you in so much. I'm sure everyone has a subset or type of open world that they enjoy.

      My favorite open world is FUEL.

      The game is, by all accounts, even my own, not a great one. The main selling point was its gigantic map (roughly the size of Connecticut) but common complaints are that it is empty or samey. It's populated with a bunch of races you can do, but many of those are boring and many are outright broken. The endurance races are the longest ones in the game which, arguably, benefit most from the game's expansive open world, but each of them can be won easily by simply driving offroad straight to the next checkpoint because the opponent AI follows the roads for navigation.

      Nevertheless, I put dozens of hours into FUEL not because it was filled with fun things to do (it's not) but because it is genuinely fun to be able to go anywhere at speed. I'd pick a spot on the horizon, drive to it, and then spot a new landmark that I'd want to make my way to. I'd chain these over and over again, just driving, with no objective other than "let's go visit that cool spot" or "let's see what things look like from the top of that ridge over there". It's the closest I've come in a videogame to exploring for exploration's sake rather than in service of objectives or outcomes. The fun of the game wasn't in its gamey bits but in just getting around and in having a very hearty helping of places to get around to.

      As I read your post, I thought of two other open-world games that I liked, and I couldn't help but wonder if there's also an element of diminishing returns to open-world experiences. Just Cause 2 was, at the time I played it, the biggest, most modern open world game I'd ever played, with all sorts of great and interesting ways to get around (the grappling hook!). It was a 10/10 for me. Just Cause 3 is an iteration on that and improves on nearly everything JC2 did. If the original was a 10/10, this one goes up to maybe 12/10, but I don't experience it as that flat score Instead, it's more like I went from 0 -> 10 with JC2, and 10 -> 12 with JC3, so even though JC3 is objectively better, it doesn't have the same impact or import, because it feels like a +2 more than a +10 for me.

      I think if I were to replay FUEL today it probably wouldn't have the same luster simply because I'm a different person now. It gave me a +10 experience at the time, but I don't know if that's replicable over and over again.

      4 votes
      1. [3]
        cfabbro
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        Based on your description of how/why you enjoyed FUEL, you should consider giving the Forza Horizon games a try if you haven't already. They're similar in that they're also open world racing games...

        Based on your description of how/why you enjoyed FUEL, you should consider giving the Forza Horizon games a try if you haven't already. They're similar in that they're also open world racing games with massive maps, but Horizon has way more to offer than just racing. The maps are absolutely beautiful, and there are numerous races, events, challenges, and various other activities you can do in them, which helps keep things fresh. And there is also a huge emphasis put on simply exploring the maps too, with all sorts of hidden things to find scattered around them.

        And coincidentally, Forza Horizon 5 just came out a few weeks ago, and is available on Xbox Gamepass for PC, which currently has a $1 for 3 months special going on. I haven't played it yet myself, but the reviews are very encouraging so far, and I have hundreds of hours played in all the previous Horizon games so have every intention of playing 5 eventually too.

        Edit: Talking about Horizon got me kinda pumped, so I resubbed to XBGP again, and am currently downloading FH5. I will let you know how it is once I've finished installing the 102GB behemoth of a game, and had a chance to play it. :P

        Edit2: Yep, as expected, it's absolutely beautiful looking, and great fun so far! The only thing I am sort of disappointed with is there seems to be virtually no traffic on the roads in this one. I understand it's a more far-flung and isolated location, but dodging NPC traffic and virtual players at ridiculous speeds was half the fun in the previous Horizons for me. So I really hope that's only because I just started playing and the density will increase eventually.

        3 votes
        1. [2]
          kfwyre
          Link Parent
          This comment and the edits took me on a journey! Glad you’re enjoying the game. I’ll definitely be picking it up at some point. I bought and liked FH3 but ran into weird Windows Store issues with...

          This comment and the edits took me on a journey! Glad you’re enjoying the game. I’ll definitely be picking it up at some point. I bought and liked FH3 but ran into weird Windows Store issues with it so I never really gave it its due. Now that this one’s on Steam I’m excited to try it out.

          From what I’ve read, the game was a bit buggy at launch. Has most of that been patched out already?

          1 vote
          1. cfabbro
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            Yeah, the Windows Store and XBGP4PC's install process is absolute trash. But thankfully that is soon to change: Microsoft’s Windows store is finally becoming more Steam-like for games Regarding...

            Yeah, the Windows Store and XBGP4PC's install process is absolute trash. But thankfully that is soon to change:
            Microsoft’s Windows store is finally becoming more Steam-like for games

            Regarding FH5, I personally haven't encountered any bugs yet in about 10 hours of play, and I can confirm that several of the exploits people were using (e.g. the Car Collection "purchase" glitch) have already been patched (since I tried several of them myself to no avail). ;)

            p.s. Here's the first post-launch patch release notes, and known but still unaddressed issues, if you're curious:
            https://support.forzamotorsport.net/hc/en-us/articles/4410593330579-FH5-Release-Notes-November-17th-2021-CU3-CU4-
            https://support.forzamotorsport.net/hc/en-us/articles/4409616884883-FH5-Known-Issues

            1 vote
      2. an_angry_tiger
        Link Parent
        Man I remember FUEL and did the same thing. I think I stopped even doing any races at all and just drove all over the map seeing what was there. That was a really cool and well made open world...

        Man I remember FUEL and did the same thing. I think I stopped even doing any races at all and just drove all over the map seeing what was there. That was a really cool and well made open world map. And that little studio? Asobo, makers of the new Microsoft Flight Simulator.

        3 votes
    2. [3]
      NaraVara
      Link Parent
      Final Fantasy XV drove the point home for me in terms of "driving" (literally). The game was open world, but unlike most open word games you basically literally have a chauffeur who drives you...

      I'm basically just picking if I want to do Activity A, B, or C at any given moment based on what I feel like doing, and then travelling to that destination while keeping my eyes more on the minimap for herbs than I am on the road. I'm not driving, I'm just biding time and resource gathering as I travel. What little exploration I can do is really in service of another activity. There's a diamond chest in this small ruin, find the entrance, and get your shinies. Cool.

      Final Fantasy XV drove the point home for me in terms of "driving" (literally). The game was open world, but unlike most open word games you basically literally have a chauffeur who drives you from mission to mission. It's not fun necessarily, but it's interesting how little the dynamic changes when you're not actually doing anything that resembles playing for so much of your playtime.

      There have even been plenty of open worlds that I thought were okay but just too long. Like butter spread over too much bread the gameplay mechanics aren't deep enough to actually remain interesting for your full playtime. Witcher 3 was like this for me. The combat system was fine and could have gone through for a 30ish hour game. But by the time you're done that combat system gets boring, and by the time you're going through the DLC it gets SUPER boring. The boss fights mix it up, but most of the time you're still just fighting drowners and the like.

      BOTW was great for all the reasons everyone has seen a hundred times. Even a more boring open world, like Assassin's Creed II was really fun because the world did feel really lived in. There was a lot more design emphasis put on exploring a REAL place. Spider-Man PS4 does this too, and it's genuinely just fun to inhabit the world. If anything, most of the quests are just excuses to swing around NYC. I actually found myself wishing they would have fleshed out the web-slinging even more until it became more like SSX Tricky. Steep is another game like this. It's a winter sports simulator that's structured like an open world, with the various sporting event instances being physical locations on the mountain range rather than navigated through menus. You can also fast-travel through menus, but the key is that being in and traveling around the world is supposed to be the fun part. It's not just an empty staging area to play out a linear story.

      2 votes
      1. [2]
        TheJorro
        Link Parent
        FFXV is such an odd one, it puts me in the mind of games like LA Noire and Mafia (1 and 2) where the games happened to have open worlds but were not trying to be open world games. They were games...

        FFXV is such an odd one, it puts me in the mind of games like LA Noire and Mafia (1 and 2) where the games happened to have open worlds but were not trying to be open world games. They were games where the travel between places was part of the point because the city was, to borrow a trope, a main character. The cities did not offer much to do, they were basically just backdrop between missions but you had to travel through them because the story and themes were about being of those locations. But those games were based on real places and evoke real cities in certain time periods to sell tone, atmosphere, and setting. FFXV is in a fantasy land that's mostly grasslands, deserts, and beaches, and there was very little to invest into regarding its world. It's instead a game that's about the road trip itself.

        It's fascinating, I can't think of another AAA game where a road trip was the feeling they wanted to evoke the most. The nearest we get to approximating long driving trips in games are things like Desert Bus, which is designed to be as boring as possible, or Euro/American Truck Simulator, which is meant to be very relaxing and passive. FFXV instead tried to evoke the romantic ideals of a road trip by framing the entire game around it.

        4 votes
        1. NaraVara
          Link Parent
          Up until the last third where it just turns into a completely different game because they had assets lying around from when they were making FFXIII. But yeah the best description I heard of it was...

          It's instead a game that's about the road trip itself.

          Up until the last third where it just turns into a completely different game because they had assets lying around from when they were making FFXIII.

          But yeah the best description I heard of it was that it's not an good game, but it sure is interesting. I kind of liked the central premise but as I understand it the focus on road-tripping was sort of a late addition. I'd be curious to see what a game structured like that from the start could be. Something with a more filled out, less empty looking world and a story more focused on forward progression to a destination rather than criss-crossing back and forth.

          2 votes
  3. [3]
    floweringmind
    Link
    The problem I see is the massive amount of content you need in a real MMO. There really needs to be procedural programming like No Man's Sky (the most impressive procedural coding) that implements...

    The problem I see is the massive amount of content you need in a real MMO. There really needs to be procedural programming like No Man's Sky (the most impressive procedural coding) that implements large scale cultures of creatures. This has been done in small ways with town changes with guildwars 2, ESO and others, but not to the scale to really make an MMO feel alive. Without that feature, you have to create a ton of ongoing content by hand. Since that content is static the users will eventually get bored.

    1. [2]
      NaraVara
      Link Parent
      I think procedural generation works when you're trying to create a wilderness to sort of go on safari in. But it would be way harder to create a lot of unique looking peoples with art and culture...

      I think procedural generation works when you're trying to create a wilderness to sort of go on safari in. But it would be way harder to create a lot of unique looking peoples with art and culture and architecture that way. You'll need something that feels more intentionally designed because human communities are intentionally designed. You can probably do a lot of the landscapes, flora, and fauna procedurally but the settlements and characters will still need handiwork and that's what players will primarily be interacting with.

      As I understand it, this was part of what happened with Mass Effect: Andromeda. They sunk a bunch of time into creating procedurally generated worlds and it just didn't work for the story-driven campaign they were trying to make.

      4 votes
      1. MimicSquid
        Link Parent
        I think it could theoretically be possible one day (even one day within the next few years) to have procedurally generated settlements that feel real-ish. Dwarf Fortress' Adventure Mode is a good...

        I think it could theoretically be possible one day (even one day within the next few years) to have procedurally generated settlements that feel real-ish. Dwarf Fortress' Adventure Mode is a good bit of the way there, though the graphics aren't. Combined with BigSleep, though, you'd get exceptionally trippy imagery from the fruitful descriptions. Perhaps not useful for gaming, yet, but we're on our way to something interesting.

        2 votes