I wonder how much that could matter in practice. It seems like it would be pretty rare and people would go to another pharmacy? Has a pharmacist working at a chain ever done that? Even in a small...
I wonder how much that could matter in practice. It seems like it would be pretty rare and people would go to another pharmacy? Has a pharmacist working at a chain ever done that?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/retail/2022/07/27/pharmacist-wont-fill-birth-control-because-faith/10154078002/ And imagine a minor being sexually abused by a family member in a small town...
And imagine a minor being sexually abused by a family member in a small town with a single pharmacy (I live in such a town of 8,000 souls: Jeff is my pharmacist and he knows everything about everyone in town. I'm happy to say his ethics are beyond reproach and he is a consummate professional). Mail order for this minor, even if she could pay for the pills, probably would never get to her.
I did speculate a bit, but I'm more curious about how frequently something like what people imagine actually happens nowadays. Imagining what might happen is often useful, but it doesn't tell us...
I did speculate a bit, but I'm more curious about how frequently something like what people imagine actually happens nowadays. Imagining what might happen is often useful, but it doesn't tell us what's happening.
The article has some useful information about laws, but it doesn't report on anything that actually happened to someone. (There are references to a couple of Twitter hashtags, but good luck figuring out what people were talking about there in 2022.)
It's all too simple for a pharmacy to simply be "out of stock", which dodges any public backlash or need to state a significant reason. I say this because I've had to transfer a prescription for...
It's all too simple for a pharmacy to simply be "out of stock", which dodges any public backlash or need to state a significant reason. I say this because I've had to transfer a prescription for methotrexate, a drug that can potentially be used for abortion. The local pharmacy I used effectively ceased to carry it shortly after the Dobbs decision, claiming drug shortages. There may be short supply elsewhere, but none of the other pharmacies have any difficulty procuring it - the price just went up.
I realize this is anecdata, but I don't have any illusions about how vindictive and spiteful the people involved in abortion bans can be, and how little they care about human life in actuality.
Perhaps it’s an excuse, but there really is a methotrexate shortage, at least as of June: Drug Shortages in Focus: How FDA's Quest for New Methotrexate Suppliers Affects the Cancer Treatment...
Perhaps it’s an excuse, but there really is a methotrexate shortage, at least as of June:
The FDA is actively seeking new suppliers to address the shortages of methotrexate, a widely used cancer drug in short supply since March.
Methotrexate is an injected medication utilized to treat various cancers and autoimmune diseases like rheumatoid arthritis, as stated by the National Cancer Institute.
According to information released by U.S. Senators Gary Peters and Debbie Stabenow, shortages have been exacerbated by a disruption in supply from India-based manufacturer Intas Pharmaceuticals, which caters to the U.S. via its Accord Healthcare unit.
That seems like a very slow and indirect way to way to determine how many people were denied birth control pills, particularly since they manufacture a lot of other drugs. I guess it doesn't...
That seems like a very slow and indirect way to way to determine how many people were denied birth control pills, particularly since they manufacture a lot of other drugs.
I guess it doesn't matter too much now since over the counter drugs aren't just sold by pharmacists? For example, grocery stores will probably have them.
Absolutely agree. But I don't know of any mechanisms, private or public, that reliably tabulate and publish these kinds of data. Eager to learn about any actually.
Absolutely agree. But I don't know of any mechanisms, private or public, that reliably tabulate and publish these kinds of data. Eager to learn about any actually.
Yes there are several (numerous?) reports over the years of a pharmacy chain christofascist pharmacist refusing to fill a birth control prescription, to varying degrees of consequences. Just out...
Yes there are several (numerous?) reports over the years of a pharmacy chain christofascist pharmacist refusing to fill a birth control prescription, to varying degrees of consequences. Just out of curiosity, how many pharmacies would you require a person to drive to attempting to fill a legal prescription before you consider that it "matters"?
Anyone want to take bets on the thoroughly-corrupt SCOTUS issuing an "emergency" shadow-docket ruling blocking the FDA when the inevitable lawsuit against the agency appears?
I remember reading that it happened somewhere. It seems like it was in the news because it's unusual? So I'm wondering how often. How rare is it and which pharmacies allow it to happen?
I remember reading that it happened somewhere. It seems like it was in the news because it's unusual? So I'm wondering how often. How rare is it and which pharmacies allow it to happen?
That's a fair question. Unfortunately there's probably no good way to answer that b/c nobody is collecting the data on it. All we're hearing is anecdotal reports, and only the ones that make...
That's a fair question. Unfortunately there's probably no good way to answer that b/c nobody is collecting the data on it. All we're hearing is anecdotal reports, and only the ones that make headlines at that. My own sense (born out by more anecdata) is that, like sexual assault, there is more-than-you-would-expect widespread occurrence most of which just goes unreported so it's flying under the radar - although I can see there being slightly more diligent reporting of incidences in the right-wing hate media streams, for celebratory reasons, even if their reports are more inherently unreliable.
Really? Where are you from? In Europe where I am all birth control is prescription-only and as a medical student, I’m glad that’s the case. Birth control should be available and affordable to...
Really? Where are you from? In Europe where I am all birth control is prescription-only and as a medical student, I’m glad that’s the case. Birth control should be available and affordable to everyone but I feel like having a physician’s judgement is important in preventing complication, understanding the possible risks and selecting an appropriate medication.
I can understand the motivation for otc birth control in the US though since seeing a physician is not affordable or available for many populations there who are in need of birth control.
I think this is excellent given our current medical system. If talking to a primary care doctor was easier, free, etc. I'd probably lean more towards the gate-keeping aspect. But plenty of OTC...
I think this is excellent given our current medical system. If talking to a primary care doctor was easier, free, etc. I'd probably lean more towards the gate-keeping aspect.
But plenty of OTC meds are more dangerous than hbc. I worry more about imperfect use which is already a difficulty with oral meds.
I'm not sure what to make of this since I agree that there should be easier and cheaper access to healthcare and by extension hormonal birth control. But it has significant, complicating, and...
I'm not sure what to make of this since I agree that there should be easier and cheaper access to healthcare and by extension hormonal birth control. But it has significant, complicating, and sometimes hard to predict effects on the body, and I feel that a physician should necessarily be in the picture.
IMO access to contraception should be as simple and affordable as possible. Notwithstanding, there are medical considerations that need to be taken into account when selecting type of hormonal...
IMO access to contraception should be as simple and affordable as possible.
Notwithstanding, there are medical considerations that need to be taken into account when selecting type of hormonal contraception. My girls have a 50% chance of inheriting a genetic clotting disorder which makes some types of hormonal BC much riskier if they inherited the gene. This is something they need to discuss with a doctor to make an informed choice. We have been warned not to do genetic testing as it can have an impact on future interactions with insurance (yeah US healthcare dystopia).
That complicates things for them, but I am wondering how many others have potential risk factors that can impact the type of BC they use which are never considered due to the lack of access, interest, or privacy to discuss everything with a doctor.
edit: added privacy as a reason they may not discuss considerations with a doctor
Are physicians really in the picture now? It's been a long time since I was on hormonal birth control, but I don't remember any relevant health screenings on initial prescription or at follow-up...
Are physicians really in the picture now? It's been a long time since I was on hormonal birth control, but I don't remember any relevant health screenings on initial prescription or at follow-up visits. Just pressure to do that yearly pap smear, which isn't even the recommendation anymore.
What about being behind the counter but no prescription required? That would make it easier for people to talk to a pharmacist, which is much easier than talking to a doctor.
What about being behind the counter but no prescription required? That would make it easier for people to talk to a pharmacist, which is much easier than talking to a doctor.
The condom example should be informative to why this presents yet another hurdle: if a man or boy is too embarrassed to ask a pharmacist for condoms and thereby announce their intention to prevent...
The condom example should be informative to why this presents yet another hurdle: if a man or boy is too embarrassed to ask a pharmacist for condoms and thereby announce their intention to prevent conception of a child (and leave the store without them and then presumably have unprotected sex), might a woman or girl not have similar issues?
I like this idea. Birth control does have some potentially serious side effects. At the same time, it is an important form of bodily autonomy for women. It's not perfect, but it's what we got. I...
I like this idea. Birth control does have some potentially serious side effects. At the same time, it is an important form of bodily autonomy for women. It's not perfect, but it's what we got. I want women to be able to choose to control their reproduction if they so desire, and I would also like to make sure they are aware of any side effects and risks of a medicine. Making sure a pharmacist can provide all the facts and perform any necessary health checks before providing birth control is a balanced way to go about it, in my opinion.
A pharmacist as far as I understand can inform you on drug interactions and one-size-fits-all information about taking the drug, but you'd need a physician to tell you what the implications would...
A pharmacist as far as I understand can inform you on drug interactions and one-size-fits-all information about taking the drug, but you'd need a physician to tell you what the implications would be for you specifically.
Pharmacists already play a role in restricting Plan B and other contraceptives, HRT, and medical abortifacients from being accessed. Plenty of good pharmacists don't do that, but if the issue is...
Pharmacists already play a role in restricting Plan B and other contraceptives, HRT, and medical abortifacients from being accessed. Plenty of good pharmacists don't do that, but if the issue is one of access, I think adding the pharmacist is not the solution.
I wonder, truly, if we (because that was my gut initial response too) only feel that because that's what we're used to. Acetaminophen has serious potential side effects including being very easy...
I wonder, truly, if we (because that was my gut initial response too) only feel that because that's what we're used to. Acetaminophen has serious potential side effects including being very easy to overdose on which was why it got those updated labels in the relatively recent past.
Under the assumption that the FDA considered all of that, I think this makes sense.
I truly hope 'pharmacists of conscience' won't arbitrarily restrict access. History suggests they will. My crystal ball sees a SCOTUS challenge...
I wonder how much that could matter in practice. It seems like it would be pretty rare and people would go to another pharmacy? Has a pharmacist working at a chain ever done that?
Even in a small town, there is mail order.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/retail/2022/07/27/pharmacist-wont-fill-birth-control-because-faith/10154078002/
And imagine a minor being sexually abused by a family member in a small town with a single pharmacy (I live in such a town of 8,000 souls: Jeff is my pharmacist and he knows everything about everyone in town. I'm happy to say his ethics are beyond reproach and he is a consummate professional). Mail order for this minor, even if she could pay for the pills, probably would never get to her.
I did speculate a bit, but I'm more curious about how frequently something like what people imagine actually happens nowadays. Imagining what might happen is often useful, but it doesn't tell us what's happening.
The article has some useful information about laws, but it doesn't report on anything that actually happened to someone. (There are references to a couple of Twitter hashtags, but good luck figuring out what people were talking about there in 2022.)
It's all too simple for a pharmacy to simply be "out of stock", which dodges any public backlash or need to state a significant reason. I say this because I've had to transfer a prescription for methotrexate, a drug that can potentially be used for abortion. The local pharmacy I used effectively ceased to carry it shortly after the Dobbs decision, claiming drug shortages. There may be short supply elsewhere, but none of the other pharmacies have any difficulty procuring it - the price just went up.
I realize this is anecdata, but I don't have any illusions about how vindictive and spiteful the people involved in abortion bans can be, and how little they care about human life in actuality.
Perhaps it’s an excuse, but there really is a methotrexate shortage, at least as of June:
Drug Shortages in Focus: How FDA's Quest for New Methotrexate Suppliers Affects the Cancer Treatment Landscape (Yahoo! finance)
That seems like a very slow and indirect way to way to determine how many people were denied birth control pills, particularly since they manufacture a lot of other drugs.
I guess it doesn't matter too much now since over the counter drugs aren't just sold by pharmacists? For example, grocery stores will probably have them.
Absolutely agree. But I don't know of any mechanisms, private or public, that reliably tabulate and publish these kinds of data. Eager to learn about any actually.
Yes there are several (numerous?) reports over the years of a pharmacy chain christofascist pharmacist refusing to fill a birth control prescription, to varying degrees of consequences. Just out of curiosity, how many pharmacies would you require a person to drive to attempting to fill a legal prescription before you consider that it "matters"?
Anyone want to take bets on the thoroughly-corrupt SCOTUS issuing an "emergency" shadow-docket ruling blocking the FDA when the inevitable lawsuit against the agency appears?
I remember reading that it happened somewhere. It seems like it was in the news because it's unusual? So I'm wondering how often. How rare is it and which pharmacies allow it to happen?
That's a fair question. Unfortunately there's probably no good way to answer that b/c nobody is collecting the data on it. All we're hearing is anecdotal reports, and only the ones that make headlines at that. My own sense (born out by more anecdata) is that, like sexual assault, there is more-than-you-would-expect widespread occurrence most of which just goes unreported so it's flying under the radar - although I can see there being slightly more diligent reporting of incidences in the right-wing hate media streams, for celebratory reasons, even if their reports are more inherently unreliable.
I hope so too, but pharmacists have my full support and have saved many people's lives.
Wait, you need a prescription for birth control pills in the US? That is really weird. That's unheard of where I am.
Really? Where are you from? In Europe where I am all birth control is prescription-only and as a medical student, I’m glad that’s the case. Birth control should be available and affordable to everyone but I feel like having a physician’s judgement is important in preventing complication, understanding the possible risks and selecting an appropriate medication.
I can understand the motivation for otc birth control in the US though since seeing a physician is not affordable or available for many populations there who are in need of birth control.
Yes, I would guess that much of the world is very unlike Europe in regards to healthcare. And not in a good way.
In all likelihood they're going to see a nurse practitioner or physician assistant and not a physician in this case.
I think this is excellent given our current medical system. If talking to a primary care doctor was easier, free, etc. I'd probably lean more towards the gate-keeping aspect.
But plenty of OTC meds are more dangerous than hbc. I worry more about imperfect use which is already a difficulty with oral meds.
I'm not sure what to make of this since I agree that there should be easier and cheaper access to healthcare and by extension hormonal birth control. But it has significant, complicating, and sometimes hard to predict effects on the body, and I feel that a physician should necessarily be in the picture.
IMO access to contraception should be as simple and affordable as possible.
Notwithstanding, there are medical considerations that need to be taken into account when selecting type of hormonal contraception. My girls have a 50% chance of inheriting a genetic clotting disorder which makes some types of hormonal BC much riskier if they inherited the gene. This is something they need to discuss with a doctor to make an informed choice. We have been warned not to do genetic testing as it can have an impact on future interactions with insurance (yeah US healthcare dystopia).
That complicates things for them, but I am wondering how many others have potential risk factors that can impact the type of BC they use which are never considered due to the lack of access, interest, or privacy to discuss everything with a doctor.
edit: added privacy as a reason they may not discuss considerations with a doctor
Are physicians really in the picture now? It's been a long time since I was on hormonal birth control, but I don't remember any relevant health screenings on initial prescription or at follow-up visits. Just pressure to do that yearly pap smear, which isn't even the recommendation anymore.
They can look at your health history and determine whether there's risk in you taking it, in which case there'd be no extra work needed to get done.
What about being behind the counter but no prescription required? That would make it easier for people to talk to a pharmacist, which is much easier than talking to a doctor.
The condom example should be informative to why this presents yet another hurdle: if a man or boy is too embarrassed to ask a pharmacist for condoms and thereby announce their intention to prevent conception of a child (and leave the store without them and then presumably have unprotected sex), might a woman or girl not have similar issues?
https://www.drugtopics.com/view/should-condoms-be-kept-under-lock-and-key
I like this idea. Birth control does have some potentially serious side effects. At the same time, it is an important form of bodily autonomy for women. It's not perfect, but it's what we got. I want women to be able to choose to control their reproduction if they so desire, and I would also like to make sure they are aware of any side effects and risks of a medicine. Making sure a pharmacist can provide all the facts and perform any necessary health checks before providing birth control is a balanced way to go about it, in my opinion.
A pharmacist as far as I understand can inform you on drug interactions and one-size-fits-all information about taking the drug, but you'd need a physician to tell you what the implications would be for you specifically.
Pharmacists already play a role in restricting Plan B and other contraceptives, HRT, and medical abortifacients from being accessed. Plenty of good pharmacists don't do that, but if the issue is one of access, I think adding the pharmacist is not the solution.
I wonder, truly, if we (because that was my gut initial response too) only feel that because that's what we're used to. Acetaminophen has serious potential side effects including being very easy to overdose on which was why it got those updated labels in the relatively recent past.
Under the assumption that the FDA considered all of that, I think this makes sense.