I've been watching Dr. Gregor for years now, and he was the key person who helped me adopt a healthier lifestyle and diet. I was never concerned about the amount of sodium I get, whether while...
I've been watching Dr. Gregor for years now, and he was the key person who helped me adopt a healthier lifestyle and diet. I was never concerned about the amount of sodium I get, whether while cooking or when buying food from the store or eating out. I'm a healthy 20-year-old with no real health problems like high blood pressure, so I thought naturally it's fine.
However, this video of Dr. Gregor made me reconsider. I started checking the foods that I buy and was astonished at just how easy it is to go over even the higher American Heart Association recommended dose of under 1500mg. Almost everything has a decent amount of salt in it, and often times we're so used to it we don't even consider it as a problem since it doesn't even taste salty.
Even this healthy bread that I had been buying had 1.2g of salt per 100g, which amounts to ~500mg of sodium. That's one slice of bread! I could keep going on, but you get the point.
Salt intake is linked to high blood pressure, affects gut health, leads to higher risk of strokes, heart disease, kidney disease, stomach cancer, and inflammation in the body.
Dr. Gregor also mentions that most people are deficient in potassium, which actually helps lower blood pressure. Our ancestors ate a ton of it from plants, but today more than 98% of Americans don't even get the minimum recommended amount. Less than 0.015% of people (or about 1 in every 6,000 Americans!) actually meet the goals for both salt and potassium.
He suggests using potassium chloride as a salt substitute to counter both of these problems at the same time.
Do you guys watch your sodium intake? Have you tried potassium chloride?
I meticulously track my dietary intake of absolutely everything using cronometer, and have for the last 7+ months. When it comes to sodium I generally try to keep my intake under 2300mg, which is...
Do you guys watch your sodium intake?
I meticulously track my dietary intake of absolutely everything using cronometer, and have for the last 7+ months. When it comes to sodium I generally try to keep my intake under 2300mg, which is the American Heart Association recommended max, and also what cronometer is set to, by default, warn you about when you overshoot it.
However, I don't have high blood pressure, I work out for 1hr+ 5-6 days a week (4x strength training, 1-2x HIIT cardio), sweat like crazy during those workouts, drink at least 3L of water per day, and usually manage to consume close to or above the RDA of potassium (potatoes, spinach, bok choy, bananas, fish, and dairy FTW!). So if I go over that 2300mg of sodium in any given day I am not too worried about it, since I'm likely far more at risk of having low sodium levels than high.
p.s. I have gotten into heated arguments here on Tildes before about (IMO) NutritionFacts.org and Dr. Gregor's somewhat questionable credibility... and I have absolutely no desire to reopen that can of worms. So all I will say is that while nothing in this video seemed particularly suspect, I would recommend people be wary of taking everything he says as gospel. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Greger#Reception
This is exactly why I don't watch my sodium (or anything else) intake. Nutrition sciences seems to me to be one of the least settled areas of science across all disciplines. I can put nearly...
I would recommend people be wary of taking everything he says as gospel
This is exactly why I don't watch my sodium (or anything else) intake. Nutrition sciences seems to me to be one of the least settled areas of science across all disciplines. I can put nearly infinite effort into tracking various aspects of my health, but there's no guarantee at all that it will amount to anything. I've decided to just stop worrying about it. I do my best to eat a macro-balanced diet of fresh foods and check my weight daily. Anything more seems unlikely to be worth the effort.
It's really, really hard to do a solid study on nutrition science. Large study sizes are more accurate, but for anything long term it ends up meaning self reporting. Very few people are going to...
Nutrition sciences seems to me to be one of the least settled areas of science across all disciplines.
It's really, really hard to do a solid study on nutrition science.
Large study sizes are more accurate, but for anything long term it ends up meaning self reporting. Very few people are going to be meticulous about logging what they ate each day, so they think back to what they probably ate over the course of the year, or for some folks they think about what they think they should have been eating and report that.
Eggs are a great example of how difficult this is. Are eggs good for you or bad for you? The answer seems to change on almost a yearly basis. We know they contain cholesterol, but eating eggs doesn't appear to raise a person's cholesterol. What about interactions? Maybe eggs are better or worse for you if you eat them with toast and orange juice, or take them with blood pressure medication, or cooked one way vs another.
This is what I’ve been doing too, partly because I don’t know if I have the mental space to meticulously track everything I eat. I think I would go mad. Even just keeping track of macros when...
This is what I’ve been doing too, partly because I don’t know if I have the mental space to meticulously track everything I eat. I think I would go mad. Even just keeping track of macros when training is annoying, let along anything more in depth.
The only rules of thumb are to try to keep the junk (including fast food and hyper processed stuff) down, aim for variety, and avoid a few non-intuitive footguns (like causing calcium deficiency via oxalates by eating too much spinach).
I tried Cronometer and found it pretty confusing because there are often multiple almost identical food choices, and they all show different nutrient amounts. When I checked fava beans, the...
I tried Cronometer and found it pretty confusing because there are often multiple almost identical food choices, and they all show different nutrient amounts. When I checked fava beans, the differences were huge - even in protein content.
I mean, just look at these options yourself: "Broadbeans (fava beans), mature seeds, raw," "Fava Beans, Cooked from Fresh," "Broadbeans, Fava Beans, Mature Seeds, Cooked, Boiled, with Salt." The variation between them is significant.
Since I'm not from the US, there are no familiar brands to reference. Other than just messing around with it, it's hard for me to imagine actually tracking much in the app, let alone tracking absolutely everything. It seems like a real chore, especially when you cook for yourself and deal with leftovers and all that.
As for Michael Greger, I don't see much point in arguing about him as well. I personally trust the guy, which I can't say about the people cited in that Wikipedia article. Good to keep an open mind though.
AFAICT that's mostly because products often use different ingredients and have different macros for different markets. E.g. Pure Protein bars here in Canada have different macros than Pure Protein...
there are often multiple almost identical food choices, and they all show different nutrient amounts
AFAICT that's mostly because products often use different ingredients and have different macros for different markets. E.g. Pure Protein bars here in Canada have different macros than Pure Protein bars in the US. And ditto for most consumer products sold in both markets.
AFAIK, the most accurate ones are the various government/university ones like NCCDB, USDA, CNF, etc. Nutritionix and CRDB are likely the least accurate since they're based purely on nutrition label scans rather than direct lab testing, but even they shouldn't be too inaccurate overall.
I may meticulously track my intake, in the sense that I do track everything I eat/drink as accurately as I can (often using a scale to measure my ingredients), but not to the point of absolute obsession. If the macros are slightly off in cronometer then I don't sweat it too much as long as they're close enough. Although, TBH, 95% of the time when I scan a product's barcode cronometer has it listed accurately... even stuff made by my favorite local grocery chain (Fortinos) and bakery (Cobs). And for anything it doesn't have in its database already, I just use the add Custom Food function, which has a nutrition label scanner.
But outside the US and Canada I can't speak to cronometer's accuracy or how well its databases will cover you, so you might be better off going with an app tailored to your particular market/country... otherwise you will probably be adding Custom Food entries for a lot of what you eat, which would be a massive PITA.
Yeah after reading about the sources I understand a bit better as to why there are a lot of identical listings. I'll try it out and go with NCCDB where possible for consistency, thanks.
Yeah after reading about the sources I understand a bit better as to why there are a lot of identical listings. I'll try it out and go with NCCDB where possible for consistency, thanks.
The link between sodium and high blood pressure is mainly genetic. That is, some minority people are susceptible to it, and some aren’t. That’s unlike, say, sugar and diabetes. If you eat salty...
The link between sodium and high blood pressure is mainly genetic. That is, some minority people are susceptible to it, and some aren’t. That’s unlike, say, sugar and diabetes.
If you eat salty foods and don’t have high blood pressure, I don’t think there’s much reason to sweat it. The other things that can make food taste good (high amounts of fats, added sugar, etc) are going to be worse for you.
I’m on a whole food plant based diet, but I don’t really follow Dr. Greggor. I have a diet that was built together with a team of doctors through my healthcare provider. I’m actually taking a...
I’m on a whole food plant based diet, but I don’t really follow Dr. Greggor. I have a diet that was built together with a team of doctors through my healthcare provider. I’m actually taking a pretty large potassium supplement because my blood pressure medications deplete it quickly.
But as far as sodium goes I don’t really track it at all. I work with intuitive eating and after a while I just got used to not salting things.
That being said I have gone particularly lax in how adherent I actually am on the whole thing. I eat grape nuts for breakfast, and these days I’m usually eating spring rolls, the shell of which are pretty antithetical to the idea of a whole idea of whole food. Both of those examples include salt added to them. I really wish the wraps didn’t have salt because it would be better if I could control it with the sauces and such that I add. And this is, of course, without talking about eating out, something my husband insists on. I’m usually too weak to just order a salad. 😩
The good news is that even without the purity aspects being perfectly adhered to, I’m still approaching my goals. It’s slowed down quite a lot, but it’s happening.
I know we're finally starting to go in the right direction here, but I really dream of the day that we have better science on how folks' bodies are able to meet varying nutritional needs when they...
I work with intuitive eating and after a while I just got used to not salting things.
I know we're finally starting to go in the right direction here, but I really dream of the day that we have better science on how folks' bodies are able to meet varying nutritional needs when they practice intuitive eating. My wife has always loved a lot of salt on her food, like more than tastes good to me and more than any doctor would recommend, I'm certain. But her blood pressure is all of the way at the bottom of normal, and she fainted often when she was younger.
Turns out, some people have genetic disorders that result in various kidney issues that ultimately prevent their body from absorbing salts well. She most likely has this — eating saltier foods more regularly and taking daily magnesium supplements have completely changed her life.
I have low-normal blood pressure myself, and I love salty snacks. There was a time when I was younger that my doctors hammered enough about the dangers of salt that I reduced my intake, and I was...
I have low-normal blood pressure myself, and I love salty snacks. There was a time when I was younger that my doctors hammered enough about the dangers of salt that I reduced my intake, and I was a miserable, low-energy, dizzy crampy mess.
I have since chosen to disregard that particular bit of advice, and purposefully salt (with both potassium and sodium) to my desired levels, and I feel so much better it's ridiculous.
YMMV, n=1, all of that. But, like your wife, it's important to note that people are different, and there really is very little one size fits all nutrition advice out there.
I think that the human body is actually pretty good at telling us what to eat; the problem is knowing how to listen. When you are regularly eating rich foods, you're training your brain to ignore...
I think that the human body is actually pretty good at telling us what to eat; the problem is knowing how to listen. When you are regularly eating rich foods, you're training your brain to ignore those quiet voices that tell you how to eat and listen to the dopamine-giving voices that tell you to eat fatty, crunchy, salty, and sweet things. Eventually you basically forget how to listen to those other voices altogether. Personally I used to eat almost nothing but rich processed and restaurant food, so to get here was a pretty extreme intervention.
I've been watching Dr. Gregor for years now, and he was the key person who helped me adopt a healthier lifestyle and diet. I was never concerned about the amount of sodium I get, whether while cooking or when buying food from the store or eating out. I'm a healthy 20-year-old with no real health problems like high blood pressure, so I thought naturally it's fine.
However, this video of Dr. Gregor made me reconsider. I started checking the foods that I buy and was astonished at just how easy it is to go over even the higher American Heart Association recommended dose of under 1500mg. Almost everything has a decent amount of salt in it, and often times we're so used to it we don't even consider it as a problem since it doesn't even taste salty.
Even this healthy bread that I had been buying had 1.2g of salt per 100g, which amounts to ~500mg of sodium. That's one slice of bread! I could keep going on, but you get the point.
Salt intake is linked to high blood pressure, affects gut health, leads to higher risk of strokes, heart disease, kidney disease, stomach cancer, and inflammation in the body.
Dr. Gregor also mentions that most people are deficient in potassium, which actually helps lower blood pressure. Our ancestors ate a ton of it from plants, but today more than 98% of Americans don't even get the minimum recommended amount. Less than 0.015% of people (or about 1 in every 6,000 Americans!) actually meet the goals for both salt and potassium.
He suggests using potassium chloride as a salt substitute to counter both of these problems at the same time.
Do you guys watch your sodium intake? Have you tried potassium chloride?
I meticulously track my dietary intake of absolutely everything using cronometer, and have for the last 7+ months. When it comes to sodium I generally try to keep my intake under 2300mg, which is the American Heart Association recommended max, and also what cronometer is set to, by default, warn you about when you overshoot it.
However, I don't have high blood pressure, I work out for 1hr+ 5-6 days a week (4x strength training, 1-2x HIIT cardio), sweat like crazy during those workouts, drink at least 3L of water per day, and usually manage to consume close to or above the RDA of potassium (potatoes, spinach, bok choy, bananas, fish, and dairy FTW!). So if I go over that 2300mg of sodium in any given day I am not too worried about it, since I'm likely far more at risk of having low sodium levels than high.
p.s. I have gotten into heated arguments here on Tildes before about (IMO) NutritionFacts.org and Dr. Gregor's somewhat questionable credibility... and I have absolutely no desire to reopen that can of worms. So all I will say is that while nothing in this video seemed particularly suspect, I would recommend people be wary of taking everything he says as gospel. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Greger#Reception
This is exactly why I don't watch my sodium (or anything else) intake. Nutrition sciences seems to me to be one of the least settled areas of science across all disciplines. I can put nearly infinite effort into tracking various aspects of my health, but there's no guarantee at all that it will amount to anything. I've decided to just stop worrying about it. I do my best to eat a macro-balanced diet of fresh foods and check my weight daily. Anything more seems unlikely to be worth the effort.
It's really, really hard to do a solid study on nutrition science.
Large study sizes are more accurate, but for anything long term it ends up meaning self reporting. Very few people are going to be meticulous about logging what they ate each day, so they think back to what they probably ate over the course of the year, or for some folks they think about what they think they should have been eating and report that.
Eggs are a great example of how difficult this is. Are eggs good for you or bad for you? The answer seems to change on almost a yearly basis. We know they contain cholesterol, but eating eggs doesn't appear to raise a person's cholesterol. What about interactions? Maybe eggs are better or worse for you if you eat them with toast and orange juice, or take them with blood pressure medication, or cooked one way vs another.
This is what I’ve been doing too, partly because I don’t know if I have the mental space to meticulously track everything I eat. I think I would go mad. Even just keeping track of macros when training is annoying, let along anything more in depth.
The only rules of thumb are to try to keep the junk (including fast food and hyper processed stuff) down, aim for variety, and avoid a few non-intuitive footguns (like causing calcium deficiency via oxalates by eating too much spinach).
I tried Cronometer and found it pretty confusing because there are often multiple almost identical food choices, and they all show different nutrient amounts. When I checked fava beans, the differences were huge - even in protein content.
I mean, just look at these options yourself: "Broadbeans (fava beans), mature seeds, raw," "Fava Beans, Cooked from Fresh," "Broadbeans, Fava Beans, Mature Seeds, Cooked, Boiled, with Salt." The variation between them is significant.
Since I'm not from the US, there are no familiar brands to reference. Other than just messing around with it, it's hard for me to imagine actually tracking much in the app, let alone tracking absolutely everything. It seems like a real chore, especially when you cook for yourself and deal with leftovers and all that.
As for Michael Greger, I don't see much point in arguing about him as well. I personally trust the guy, which I can't say about the people cited in that Wikipedia article. Good to keep an open mind though.
AFAICT that's mostly because products often use different ingredients and have different macros for different markets. E.g. Pure Protein bars here in Canada have different macros than Pure Protein bars in the US. And ditto for most consumer products sold in both markets.
And as for raw or "cooked from fresh" ingredients, that's because the macros in ingredients naturally vary a ton to begin with, and cronometer also provides a bunch of different sources for its nutritional information:
https://support.cronometer.com/hc/en-us/articles/360018239472-Data-Sources
AFAIK, the most accurate ones are the various government/university ones like NCCDB, USDA, CNF, etc. Nutritionix and CRDB are likely the least accurate since they're based purely on nutrition label scans rather than direct lab testing, but even they shouldn't be too inaccurate overall.
I may meticulously track my intake, in the sense that I do track everything I eat/drink as accurately as I can (often using a scale to measure my ingredients), but not to the point of absolute obsession. If the macros are slightly off in cronometer then I don't sweat it too much as long as they're close enough. Although, TBH, 95% of the time when I scan a product's barcode cronometer has it listed accurately... even stuff made by my favorite local grocery chain (Fortinos) and bakery (Cobs). And for anything it doesn't have in its database already, I just use the add Custom Food function, which has a nutrition label scanner.
But outside the US and Canada I can't speak to cronometer's accuracy or how well its databases will cover you, so you might be better off going with an app tailored to your particular market/country... otherwise you will probably be adding Custom Food entries for a lot of what you eat, which would be a massive PITA.
Yeah after reading about the sources I understand a bit better as to why there are a lot of identical listings. I'll try it out and go with NCCDB where possible for consistency, thanks.
YVW. And if you need any more help figuring it out, let me know. :)
The link between sodium and high blood pressure is mainly genetic. That is, some minority people are susceptible to it, and some aren’t. That’s unlike, say, sugar and diabetes.
If you eat salty foods and don’t have high blood pressure, I don’t think there’s much reason to sweat it. The other things that can make food taste good (high amounts of fats, added sugar, etc) are going to be worse for you.
I’m on a whole food plant based diet, but I don’t really follow Dr. Greggor. I have a diet that was built together with a team of doctors through my healthcare provider. I’m actually taking a pretty large potassium supplement because my blood pressure medications deplete it quickly.
But as far as sodium goes I don’t really track it at all. I work with intuitive eating and after a while I just got used to not salting things.
That being said I have gone particularly lax in how adherent I actually am on the whole thing. I eat grape nuts for breakfast, and these days I’m usually eating spring rolls, the shell of which are pretty antithetical to the idea of a whole idea of whole food. Both of those examples include salt added to them. I really wish the wraps didn’t have salt because it would be better if I could control it with the sauces and such that I add. And this is, of course, without talking about eating out, something my husband insists on. I’m usually too weak to just order a salad. 😩
The good news is that even without the purity aspects being perfectly adhered to, I’m still approaching my goals. It’s slowed down quite a lot, but it’s happening.
I know we're finally starting to go in the right direction here, but I really dream of the day that we have better science on how folks' bodies are able to meet varying nutritional needs when they practice intuitive eating. My wife has always loved a lot of salt on her food, like more than tastes good to me and more than any doctor would recommend, I'm certain. But her blood pressure is all of the way at the bottom of normal, and she fainted often when she was younger.
Turns out, some people have genetic disorders that result in various kidney issues that ultimately prevent their body from absorbing salts well. She most likely has this — eating saltier foods more regularly and taking daily magnesium supplements have completely changed her life.
I have low-normal blood pressure myself, and I love salty snacks. There was a time when I was younger that my doctors hammered enough about the dangers of salt that I reduced my intake, and I was a miserable, low-energy, dizzy crampy mess.
I have since chosen to disregard that particular bit of advice, and purposefully salt (with both potassium and sodium) to my desired levels, and I feel so much better it's ridiculous.
YMMV, n=1, all of that. But, like your wife, it's important to note that people are different, and there really is very little one size fits all nutrition advice out there.
I think that the human body is actually pretty good at telling us what to eat; the problem is knowing how to listen. When you are regularly eating rich foods, you're training your brain to ignore those quiet voices that tell you how to eat and listen to the dopamine-giving voices that tell you to eat fatty, crunchy, salty, and sweet things. Eventually you basically forget how to listen to those other voices altogether. Personally I used to eat almost nothing but rich processed and restaurant food, so to get here was a pretty extreme intervention.