Mechanical keyboards, anyone?
I'm only a beginner down the rabbithole known as mech-keebs, but I thought I'd source some thoughts here. Apologies if this has been expanded on in other ~hobbies threads.
Those of you who have been in the mech game longer, what switches have you tried? What do you find are your personal preferences on switches and why do you think that is? Have you ventured away from the very popular Cherry MX switches?
What about keycaps? What are your favourite profiles or colourway designs? Preferred material? I am currently rocking a DSA set of keycaps from one of my favourite designers, MiTo: https://mitormk.com/legacy-dsa/ I got the blue/black Tron-inspired set. I gotta admit, I was a little skeptical of ABS caps, but they're really nicely textured in a way that's reminiscent of PBT, but without that powdery grippiness.
Tell me about some of your favourite layouts too! I hear some pretty aggressive proponents of tenkeyless layouts, but I just really like my numpad for lots of numeric input. If it were just a gaming keyboard, I probably would be pretty happy with TKL though.
Are you working on any new projects right now?
Looking forward to all the responses!
Cherry blue. I want people in space to hear me typing. The louder it clacks the more satisfying it is.
Especially when you're typing out a long, angry reply to someone? ;)
I know what you mean, I love the sound of typing, but for the sake of my coworkers, I have linear reds in that don't clack. Though I have found that my keyboard has a bit of a pinging sound when I hit certain keys and release. It's more of a frame/plate problem though, than the keycaps and switches.
Oh yeah my keyboard at work is membrane. The clacking is for the privacy of my own home where it won't annoy anyone.
Gatling-gun typing in the privacy of your own home. There's nothing quite like going fully mechanical.
I absolutely love my mechanical keyboard. But because I'm a relatively quick typist, people in other rooms of the house can't escape the clatter. Once I get going, its like a chemical fire in a bubblewrap factory.
I am a-okay with this. It's been pointed out to me on multiple occasions that when I'm on a teleconf call at my computer that everyone can hear me typing because it sounds like I am angrily firing a gatling gun at whichever customer has decided to be a dingus that day. And this was when I used to use a membrane keyboard at work.
The majority of the team that I work with in a cubicle farm use mechs. Two of us are on reds, the rest are on browns, and it's still audible if we're hard typists. It's actually extra effort to type softly.
Probably not the type of answer you’re looking for, but I will love my Model M until the end of time.
A buckling spring will never let you down. It will also keep your neighbors awake.
Very true. I keep a spare rubber dome keyboard hooked up under my desk in case I need to type especially late and don’t want to wake anyone up.
Dang those are classics! How'd you come across one?
I got lucky and was able to find a working one for $5 at a garage sale. From what I’ve heard, there are also some more modern recreations that are quite accurate in terms of look and feel. I’d probably go for one of those if my current one ever broke.
I've never had the chance to use a real Model M, but I do have a Unicomp. Despite having a few issues with it, it seems to type like those originals are described. It's a joy to use and it probably keeps the neighbors down the street awake. IIRC, Unicomp basically got the IP from IBM for their buckling-spring tech so the switches should be pretty similar.
For what I paid, I'm happy, but if I could pick up a cheap Model M I'd go for that. I suspect the build quality would be better; after all, they're still being passed around 20+ years after being manufactured.
You can get a modern Model F (older, better built, better feel, slightly worse sound than M) on this site, but don’t expect to get it below 300 €:
https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/
Given the way they're made, your Model M will likely love you in return until the end of time, as well.
I'm a bit of a Mechanical Keyboard guy. I've got a Ducky One TKL with Black Cherry MX's right now and I put some Taihao Miami keycaps. I put a HolyOOPS D.VA Aluminum keycap on my ESC key. Last keyboard I had was a Ducky Shine 2 w/ ten keys and MX Red's. I really like linear switches, especially for gaming, but I'm considering going with Blue's for my next keyboard because I sort of crave some feedback now. The only thing I really hate is when I'm talking to people - I don't like using push to talk so the background noise will be massive. Guess I'll have to get used to PTT.
Would you consider brown switches for the tactile feedback? It seems like it'd be a good in-between for zero-touch-feedback and loud-as-heck.
I hear really good things about Duckys but haven't tried one myself. I keep lusting after keycap sets though so it might end up being a keeb that I get just to put caps on it. I loved the Taihao Miamis!
I actually had browns as my first keyboard for a really short while and didn't like them so much but have tried blues in a store and loved them! Thanks for the suggestions though.
Ducky's are incredible, you honestly can't go wrong with them. I think I'll never buy a different brand. Taihao's are great!
Welp, I guess I know what I'll get next if I feel like playing with different switches :D
Cherry MX Browns all the way. I've tried reds, which just aren't my thing, and I feel like Blues would just be a bit too much. I like the feel and sound of Browns enough that I haven't bothered trying others since I first got them (now 2-3 keyboards ago).
My current keyboard is a Ducky Legend in black. The aluminium top on it gives the board a nice weight, a great look and I love the 'cool' feeling that the metal gives. Well worth the price. EDIT: My only complaint about the Legend is that there's only one backlight on the spacebar, which isn't strong enough to fully illuminate the logo (it looks like it's faulty even though it's not). If there were two LEDs there, it'd look much better IMO.
I'm considering maybe getting another keyboard for taking with me when I've got to do significant amounts of work away from my main PC. Not sure what model of keyboard it'll be, but I do know that I want it to have a colour scheme based on the BBC Micro.
I'll second the browns. It's a nice tactile feel without needing to push too hard. I haven't tried other types, though. First had a Ducky Shine 3, then moved to a Corsair K70 Lux RGB keyboard when it bit the dust. Both were pretty solid keyboards and have great backlighting with customization.
I have a Corsair K70 without all the fancy RGB LEDs in it, and it's okay, but the fact that it has a non-standard bottom row layout just chafes me. I can never fully replace that row unless I buy specially sized keys. Otherwise it feels pretty good, and I love the floating key design. You won't have a hard time getting debris out of this.
In early 2000s I had the wonderful opportunity to join the local hackerspace Cyberpipe and with it volunteer at the Slovenian Computer Museum – there I had the chance to not only learn much of what I know about computers and IT, but also use several keyboard classics. Most of which I don’t know what they were, as at that time I did not care.
From the switches I’ve tried so far:
I’m intrigued by the hall effect and the magnetic reed switches … Wooting is a company to keep an eye on IMHO.
I haven’t had the chance to try the fabled Topre, but I’m not actively looking for it either. If I ever get the chance, it’d be nice to try. I suspect it won’t be to my liking though.
While I’m all for æsthetics, I don’t buy into the keycap hype. It helps that I don’t like MX that much though ;)
My current project I already described in the subthread here, but in short it’s a:
This comment was a joy to read: it was full of things I knew, and a good sprinkling of things I didn't know. Your tastes are very indicative of the people who find game-changers when they move very far outside of the popular go-tos.
I'd love to try some Alps, Matias Quiet Clicks, or Kailhs one day. They aren't common enough that I can just find one. I think I'd have to find someone who already had one, and would let me borrow it for a day. I type a LOT for my job, so it'd be easy to tell if I loved or hated something by mid-day. Sadly, this level of try-before-you-buy isn't quite where the make-up industry is yet. :P
I'm really intrigued by the Kailh BOX switches. They get a lot of honourable mention, so I'd love to get my hands on a board and just type out a paragraph or something.
Also: MAJOR envy at being a volunteer at the Slovenian Computer Museum! I'd love to see it one day.
Thanks. Two boards I got from people I happen to know in my city. One (ErgoDox) I actually got on Deskthority forum – they have a try before you buy subforum.
For Kailh BOX switches, there is a fairly inexpensive tester available. I’d offer to send you mine, but I guess the postage to you and back to me would be about the same as if you simply order one yourself.
As for Alps/Matias, I’d offer to lend you mine but 1) it’s my only one, and 2) on paper it’s actually my employer’s so, I really shouldn’t ;) Maybe someone on Deskthority is willing to lend you theirs.
Hehe, the guys are right now looking for a new (proper permanent) place for the museum, so if you come to Ljubljana in a few months time, you would be welcome to visit it :)
I'm partial to the IBM Model M2 myself. My first PS/1 system came with one in '94 and I'm still typing on it right now. I even scored a second one at a salvation army for $10 in the original packaging as a backup in case the first one fails. I'd use them forever but I suspect PS2 ports are about to disappear in favor of USB so I won't have a way to plug them in to modern computers. Funny how IBM's keyboards outlasted the interface they use to plug in - 24 years is a damn long time.
It's basically the M1 in a form factor that shaves all of the empty space off of the M1's edges. Still buckling spring, still clickety, but the key press action is smoother and easier than the M1. It's also a lot lighter, though there's still a steel plate backbone inside so it sacrifices none of the durability. I need to find something just like this with a USB form factor, or some kind of PS2-USB adapter I can use on modern systems to plug these in.
What you need is an active PS2 to USB converter, which should be under 10 €.
I've tried a couple of those and they always seem stuttery/laggy converting the input, noticeable in twitch-centric gaming.
Hmm, how about modding it with a new controller? There is bound to be some available to simply buy.
It's possible. For some reason I get a rather perverse pleasure out of using something that old/indestructible. Also, I still hate the 'windows' keys for interfering with my gaming, and any modern replacement will probably have those annoying keys.
I have been using my CoolerMaster Quickfire TK with Cherry MX Blue switches for a while now and it has always served me well. I love the blue switches but they are too loud for a lot of people. It also has a weird layout where the numpad and arrow keys co-exist in the same space and are switched with num lock. For programming, which is my main use, the layout is fine and it makes the keyboard easier to move around, so I'm quite happy with it.
I spend a lot of time in /r/mk and every time I go back I'm tempted to build my own but I have neither the time nor disposable income to jump down that rabbit hole at this point in my life.
One of my friends is building his own split keyboard, custom layout design. It's definitely a money-sink, but it'll just be so cool when he's done!
I have a steelseries g6v2, its a simple minimalistic rectangular design without sacrificing any keys, has some heft to it so it's not moving around while I pound away at it, doesn't have LEDs which I'm not a fan of anyways. It's got the Cherry MX Black switches. There is no actuation point so you gotta be careful about resting your hands on the board, it's super easy to unknowingly hold down a key simply from the weight your hands. The keyboard has good action and it's not super loud, I am not a fan of the obnoxiously loud mechanical keyboards.
Only complaint I have about it is the placement of the slashes, the back slash isn't in the typical location above the enter key, instead it's beside the forward slash and the right shift is slightly shorter than you'd expect. It took some getting used to.
We were just talking about heavier switches today, and I'm glad to see someone who's got linears too!! I have reds which are just lighter versions of the blacks. I know what you mean about accidentally leaving your hand resting on the keys and suddenly having a string of the same key in a textbox. I find a certain satisfaction in just learning where the actuation point is, and not having to rely on tactile bumps. It contributes to a feeling of just having your fingers float over the keys, y'know?
Oh, you ended up with a different layout of some sort! My layout isn't the ISO layout, more of a standard American one. I bought a laptop once with the ISO enter key and it just messed with me for ages. It shifts the backslash key and a few other things around.
I learned to type on a typewriter, then a Model K, then used a Model M for about fifteen years. So I like a heavy, clicky, switch. I have two keyboards now with Gateron blues - a Varmilo TKL and a KC60, and a spare KC60 with Gateron browns. (And, uh, four Model Ms, two NOS. And a Wang 724 with Alps switches.)
The Varmilo has been mostly drama-free, though every once in a while a switch will get dirty and bouncy for a bit, but it usually sorts itself out pretty quick. I have the Modern Selectric caps on there. SA profile took a while to get used to, but now I really like them.
I kind of hate the KC60s, which I got from the original run on Massdrop. I've had to replace three of the switches on the one with blues so far - one didn't work out of the box. It's programmable but the programming tool doesn't work with Linux... or Android. And I don't have a Windows box anymore. So I have a 2/3rds-sized keyboard that doesn't do any interesting tricks. The last time I had it apart to replace a switch, I took the opportunity to replace all the springs with heavier ones (80g, I believe), which made it a little more pleasant to type on. The space bar stabilizers are absolutely terrible but I've never gotten around to looking at replacing them, and have no money these days anyway, so I just live with it. If I was actually able to program it, and could afford a heavier case for it, I think I'd be happier with it. It has a set of Mito DSA caps, without any of the gaming-specific ones in use. White-and-blue caps, white case. Very soothing and cheerful, somehow, lol.
I grew up with full-sized keyboards with tenkey pads and all that fun stuff, but for web-related stuff where the mouse/trackball gets used a lot I find I like TKLs more and more, because you don't have to move your arm as much, or adopt such a weird posture. (Note that I'm a lefty, so my mouse/trackball lives on the right side of the keyboard, and so I normally have to cross the Sea of Numpad to get to it.)
I still honestly prefer buckling springs over Alps or Cherry-style switches, but I really really really like, and wanted, the Modern Selectric keycaps when I stumbled across them.
As for ongoing projects, nope. No money, no real interest. I have several lifetimes' worth of keyboards (Model Ms never die...) already, and enough spare switches and springs and o-rings and so on to keep the Gateron boards alive for the forseeable future. If anything, I should probably track down the two other keycap sets I have laying around here somewhere (Jukebox SA and... Carbon, I think it was called) and try to sell them.
I'm borrowing that for future use.
How are you liking the SA profile? I find that I feel like I need to reach further for everything on my DSAs, and I keep hitting the spacebar when I hit keys above it. The flat profile does feel really nice though. My wrists don't need to be held up anymore.
Holy heck you have a lot of keebs. Good on you!
The SA profile took a little getting used to at first, more for the height than the reach. I didn't have any problems otherwise, though.
Like I said, though, I learned to type on a typewriter, and still use one occasionally. Typewriters are orders of magnitude less forgiving about bad typing form than computer keyboards. Not to be a complete asshole or anything, but if you're hitting the spacebar by accident, most likely the PEBCAK, i.e. your form is somewhat sloppy.
Actually, my one wish about the SA profile is that I'd like a keyset - and I don't know if anyone's done this or not - where either the number row was the same profile as the QWERTY row, or the function row was the same profile as the number row. With the usual arrangement, there's a big, weird change in profile between the number and function rows, which is counter-intuitive to me after years with the curved arrangement on a Model M. Not that big of a deal since I don't use most of the function row much anyway, except for escape. And if it bugged me that badly, I could probably remap the ~ to be the escape key, for the true power vim user experience.
I didn't mention this in my last comment, but because the keyboard I have these caps on does not have a standard bottom row, I couldn't replace the spacebar to the DSA one, so it's still an OEM standard profile spacebar for R4. Yes, it doesn't fit with the rest of the DSA keys, but it's a funky-sized spacebar and I'll never be able to replace it without just ordering a bag of different off-keys. I've flipped it around so that the profile leans towards me, rather than towards the fingers, and that seems to have helped a bit. This was never a problem for me when I was typing on a uniform OEM profile.
high fives for being a vim user I also use the Esc key frequently, but I've never thought about remapping it to another key. Apparently, it's one of the first things some people do when they move to a new machine and don't take their vimrc with them.
I’m over here with my near end game hhkb with blanks. I wasn’t a believer until I tried it and I can’t get used to any other layout, which can be awkward when moving my laptop around at work but oh well, worth it!
I also got lucky enough to grab a kosmo last year so its almost complete.
Unf. I really loved the aesthetics of the HHKB Pro. I guess you're a huge proponent of Topres then? I have yet to try them out! I remember looking at these a while ago and wondering why they decided to use ABS plastic for the spacebar. Has yours shown any shine?
Alright, let's see here.
Currently own:
Used to own:
I've love to get another board with Cherry Browns. The blacks are nice, but they're a bit tough after gaming on them for hours. My left wrist begins to strain. Red or Browns should fix that. For typing the blacks aren't bad, but when gaming, I bottom every key out and thus.... reds or browns would be nice.
That's a nice little assortment! I am definitely a fan of the reds and browns due to the lower activation. I've never spent a long amount of time on blacks, but I suspect I would have the same trouble as you.
I think the smallest I'd consider is a TKL. I'm a bit of a power user so I'm always needing those F row keys. It'd be really weird for me to remap Esc too. I hear great things about Pok3rs. I was thinking about building one that I could program to purr very audibly just for shiggles for a buddy, but it'd probably be a very expensive prank to play on somebody.
My sympathies -_-;
I can't live without the Esc, so I'd probably have a similar issue :(
Personally I've got a Roccat Ryos MK Pro with cherry blues. It's a ridiculously beefy keyboard that could be used for self defense if necessary. I know a lot of people who like smaller keyboards, but they're not my thing.
I don't have any custom keycaps, but I saw these super cool ones on massdrop the other day. They're still available for a very short time.
Edit: Full disclosure, that's a referral link, but I if I strip out all the extra crap it asks you to log in before showing you anything.
Gotta love keyboards that are robust enough to be used as a bludgeon! Mine's got a bit of a sharp edge, but it probably wouldn't be great for using as just a bat.
So.. are you gonna spring for those caps or what? XD
I want to, they're super cool, but I haven't gotten into custom caps yet. And I don't think my keyboard has removable keys anyway. I passed them along to some friends who are into mechanical keyboards though.
I got a ducky zero with brown switches at home as my first mechanical keyboard to see what all the hype was about. It types alright, but it's kind of ugly I think.
So the next keyboard I got was a vortex vibe at work with silent red switches which I love every time i see it. Couldn't really be happer with it. I love it's layout as well. It's got a numpad which, with a function key, works as either num pad or nav keys.
Next I'm looking at topre, just to see what it's all about, or another vortex keyboard like the race 3.
Mm, dem buttery buttery red switches. I have to admit, when I tried browns for the first time after I'd been using reds for a couple of years, it almost just felt like my keys were wiggling unnecessarily. I got used to them eventually! I can appreciate that little tactile bump.
Please please let me know how topres go for you, I'm so curious about them.
Same here. Really liked the blues I tried when I visited a microcenter, so I'd like to get a set of those, but I don't want another G710+, it's kind of bulky.
I've tried many different switches but I still always come back to Zealiostotles as my favourite, although I do plan on a Zilent board for taking with me on my travels.
I don't really have a preference for keycap profiles but currently I am typing on some DSA caps! My favourite colorway/design is GMK Electric by Vala but it would seem they have given up on it... :(
Personally, I prefer the 65% layout as arrow keys are super handy for me but at home I use a 96key layout as I also use the numpad occasionally.
Oooooooh GMK Electric looks beautiful! MiTo's DSA Legacy is reminiscent of it, but a much brighter shock of blue. That's disappointing that they've given up on it :(
How are you liking DSA caps? Do you find it odd when you move back to the OEM profile on "regular" keyboards?
DSA caps are interesting, they force you to centre your fingers while typing which is nice.
I think all the profiles have their own advantages and disadvantages.
I don't find it odd going back to OEM profile keycaps but I don't really have a preference in terms of profiles anyway so that may have to do with it.
DSA caps definitely require you to center your fingers more, which is why it feels like a reach adjustment for me. It's a good way to describe it. My next experiment involves XDA profile caps, which have more surface area at the tops!
Here's my current board. MX Clears, DSA Granite, KPB V60 board. Solid little setup.
I'm working on trying to get a wireless keyboard working (the Mitosis to be exact), but it's proving more challenging than I anticipated.
Nice! How do you like to map out your Fn keys?
I've been looking for a potential wireless solution to playing games on the TV in the living room, so please let me know how the Mitosis works out for you.
Each Fn key is just fn + number, where the number is equivalent to that function key, so fn + 1 = f1.
I'll let you know about the Mitosis! Might be awhile though..