Gut check on contractor quote
I received a quote from a local contractor to do some home remodeling. Some of the numbers make sense, but some seem quite high. Like, I can't believe it costs $3k in labor to install an electric fireplace insert, or an island hood. Anybody have any insight they're willing to share on this quote?
Remodel estimate
- Planning and asbestos test $1,190.00
- Move range outlet $1,514.00
- Island hood $4,498.00
- Electric fireplace insert $4,133.00
- Main bathroom $36,552.00
- Hall bathroom toilet and fan with humidistat $3,579.00
- Concrete landings outside the front and back doors, front siding flashing $2,899.00
- Re-pipe plumbing $14,993.00
- Bedroom window glass replacement $749.00
Total $70,107.00
Description
Plans will be refined. Drywall will be tested for asbestos content.
Dust will be contained and floors will be protected.
The range outlet will be moved.
An island range hood will be installed. The placeholder hood in the estimate is a Zephyr Brisas.
An electric fireplace insert will be installed. The placeholder fireplace in the estimate is a
Dimplex 500001756.
The main bathroom will be remodeled. The shower will be replaced with a pre-formed shower
pan and Corian walls, and two shower valves and shower heads will be installed. A sliding
shower door will be installed. The floor will be tiled. A new vanity cabinet, countertop, sink, and
faucet will be installed. A new toilet will be installed. The vanity electrical outlets will be
lowered, a larger lower mirror will be installed, a new vanity light will be installed. A ventilation
fan and light will be installed with a humidistat/condensation sensor. Drywall will be patched.
New baseboard trim will be installed. The bathroom will be painted.
The hall bathroom toilet will be replaced. A ventilation fan with a humidistat will be installed.
Concrete landings will be poured outside the front door and outside the back sliding door. The
front door landing will be about 5-1/2’x4’ with a curved corner. The back landing will be about
3-1/2’x3’.
The plumbing in the house will be replaced. Drywall holes from installation will be patched and
painted.
Window glass will be replaced in the bedroom with the broken window pane.
Everything will be cleaned up.
All labor and materials are included.
Thank you!
Is this the only quote you have? It would be beneficial to get quotes from 1-2 other reputable contractors in the area.
The other question is, what does the existing space where the fireplace is going look like? Is it just a wall? Is there an existing fireplace? If it's just a wall, even an electric fireplace needs fire-resistant insulation, ventilation, and electrical. All of that requires framing and drywall. If it's existing, there's probably some padding of the quote to cover removal and other issues with the existing unit.
Same goes for the range hood. Is this freestanding on an island or on a wall? Either way, you're going to have to tie the unit into structure, be it the ceiling or wall. If you're moving the range, all the ventilation from the hood will also need to be moved.
Honestly, $70K is a lot of money, but if it's a reputable company and they're doing everything from demo to painting, it's not outrageous considering the scope of work. Again, alternate quotes will help put things in perspective.
This work likely require permits and inspections. That is probably part of the quote and would be included in the labor. Doesn't seem like much, but pulling the permit, waiting for the inspector, addressing any issues the inspector raises (they always raise something in my experience), waiting for the re-inspection, etc.
I had an electrical inspection fail because the inspector found a 20 year wire going through the floor that wasn't related to the project didn't have fire block. He worked with me (the home owner), let me run to the store and spray it myself then he come back after his next inspection and gave it the approval. Had I not been home at the time, the contractor would have done it and charge me 2 hours of labor and the can.
Yes, this is the only quote. I'll find somebody else to give another.
They seem reputable, it just seems like quite a bit of padding.
The fireplace is already there, it's just putting in an insert and wiring it up (as far as I can tell).
Thanks for the help!
As a homeowner (and even as a business owner) Step 1 is always: Get three quotes.
This is the only way you'll know if the quote is high, low, or on target. Do not show the current quote or imply that you have a quote to any of the other contractors.
That said, looking at what you're having done some of it certainly seems on the high side.
As a heads up to other homeowners in the USA, there's some nasty consolidation afoot, and probably more to come.
Horzion Services, notorious HVAC provider, is acquiring other HVAC providers, lining up their pricing with Horizon, but keeping their branding otherwise intact, which undermines this three-quotes advice. I was tipped off to this by my HVAC contractor.
Notice Hutchinson's website is still online, and makes no mention of Horizon.
Here's all the providers listed in that article, that are not actually competitors to Horizon anymore.
It's entirely possible for a person in New Jersey to call 5 different HVAC companies and they're all actually Horizon. Messed up.
Wow, I could find evidence that the two companies are linked (by searching HVAC and other licence numbers down at the bottom), but I'm not sure I would have been able to if I hadn't been setting out from a position of knowledge. How on earth can you find this out? I suppose you could directly contact the company and ask if they belong to any other commercial group or have been bought by another company (how far do you go back though?)? Tricky, and a very good thing to be aware of when shopping around for quotes.
Oh yea, I had no idea, except that while shooting the shit with my HVAC contractor during the install and he mentioned it. I'm betting this problem probably runs deep across different contracting areas... my money is on extermination and window installers being high-up on that list.
TBH this is why I think companies shouldn't be allowed to own other companies. It's a shell game to disguise market consolidation and collusion. The top-level parent company is the company, and all logos and branding should reflect that. No more of this "independently run subsidiary" crap....it's all Alphabet, Nestle, etc.
If we're gonna hit the Wall-E future, I don't want Buy N' Large to be able to mask itself under 1000 false subsidiaries giving the illusion they're not a monopoly.
When IBM bought RedHat, all RedHat branding should have been retired within a year and replaced with IBM.
Look at GitHub. Is there any way to tell that it's owned by Microsoft? No, it shows Github, Inc. That should be "GitHub, by Microsoft" at the top, and "Microsoft, Inc" at the bottom, with the about page linking to Microsoft.
In my area there is a large portion of arborists and locksmiths that each belong to some bigger corporation that owns many others. Found this out when getting quotes from places that appeared to have been around for 30 years. Places like “Jim’s Lock and Key” where Jim was a life long locksmith…who no longer exists but the business name was purchased by some locksmith cabal where they keep the name and reputation of the business they buy.
Five quotes to cut a tree limb were all about $1500 USD which was an insane amount for this simple tree limb removal. Found out that they were all owned by the same corporation. Finally found a somewhat independent arborist (insured and bonded) and it was $200 - and that was because that was their minimum per call. It was literally a guy with a ladder and a small hand saw and it took less than 5 minutes.
Out of curiousity, is that kind of tree surgery prohibited for individuals where you are? I used to have a neighbour who worked for the UK Forestry Commission, and it was pretty interesting watching him scale the large fir trees in his garden (easily 12m+ tall) with his harness and chainsaw and other tools. I understand that kind of operation being controlled, but if it's just a ladder and a handsaw, what's to stop you from getting to it yourself?
Lack of a ladder, a saw and a way to dispose of it. I also lease the property and have never used a saw before so there’s that, too 😆
Ha, very fair. You have to be very settled in an area to have bought and stored a whole ladder. I think I own a footstool!
Why would you not tell your contractor that you have or are getting other quotes? I always tell them there are other quotes, assuming that I'll get their best quote if they know there's competition. If course I'd never tell them how much the other quote is.
Two schools of thought:
One is tell them you have/are getting other quotes. This should mean they give their best price, but can also make them take you less seriously. Having to take time to give people quotes it typically money not made.
The other is to not tell them, it allows you to see if their quote is competitive or inflated because they think they're the only option you're looking at. If inflated, I perceive them as being deceptive, and filter/act accordingly.
I ask my contractors for itemized parts and labor, including the hourly rate per person. Most around here have fairly comparable labor rates.
If you think about it, if you need 4 people whom are getting paid $50/hr... That's $1,600 for labor alone, per-day. Not factoring any company overhead for those wages, like insurance. My large minisplit install needed about 6 people and took 2 days. I'd almost be wary of any quotes looking to pay less than that for specialist work.
That said, quotes can vary drastically. I usually pick the midrange, because the low rates tend to cut corners substantially.
Home construction really is one of those areas that paying a higher hourly rate for better workers can yield dividends if those workers are faster and doing higher quality.
Totally.
I was thinking this would be a $50k project, maybe push $60k after all was said and done. But jumping in at $70k right away was a little eye opening to me.
Thanks!
They probably have a lot of padding in their labor quote. Doing remodeling work never goes smoothly. There is always something that doesn't go right. A wire needs to be reroute to put in the insert. They discover the toilet flange is broken when swapping the toilet. The wiring for the exhaust fan won't pass inspection so it needs to be redone. Customer love being told "That went a lot faster than we expected, so here is $5k off your quote" vs "Yeah, that turned out a lot more difficult, it'll be an extra $5k"
I've worked with contractor to quote on a cost+labor basis with the knowledge that if the job gets done faster than quoted, I get charged less, but by the same token I take on the risk that if it goes side ways, I'm on the hook.
Only way to know for sure is to get more quotes.
So I've been an insurance adjuster who would deal with contractors every day and review their quotes. Without knowing the dimensions of the areas being remodeled here, I can say while this is likely on the higher side, it's not out of the realm of what I've seen.
Agree with the other comments about getting additional quotes.
Thanks for the response, definitely helpful. And yes I'll work on getting another quote.
Some of this does seem pretty high. $3500 to replace a toilet and exhaust fan? That's $250 in parts and maybe 2 hours of labor.
That being said, contractors can demand these kinds of prices because there is a shortage of them and people will pay. I agree with the others that you should get 2 more quotes.
Without knowing more, it is difficult to say. I was a plumbers assistant for a couple years. Replacing a toilet can quickly go from simply unbolting it, putting in new wax ring, then bolting it back to down to discovering the flange is broken and needs to be replaced, which means either a retrofit or getting under the floor to cut the PVC and install a new flange, even worse if it turns out it is a cast iron drain.
I worked in low voltage which isn't quite as labor intensive in some respects and not necessarily as much experience or skill required to some other industries, but similar to what you said, sometimes things aren't as simple as they seem and you can't necessarily tell until you dig in deeper to find out. So you can quote someone a lower price assuming everything will go perfect and when it doesn't you either have to eat the cost or tell the customer it will cost more than expected. You'll guaranteed get bad reviews doing the latter. So if you have to eat the cost sometimes, then you have to pad the cost of every quote some amount to make up for the times where you eat the cost.
That's where it becomes a bit more of a challenge as the customer if you don't evaluate reps of the contractors, because someone can give you a lower price but they might be the kind that won't eat the cost if something unexpected shows up. Some will "eat the cost" by doing some cheap workaround that you don't pay for until a few years later when the problem comes up again. But if there's not a lot of reputable reviews or such to work with, or you fall for the ones that game their reviews, then you don't know what kind of contractor you're dealing with or what risks you're taking.
Yeah. I definitely had some sticker shock with some of these and just wanted to make sure I wasn't going crazy. Definitely will get more quotes. Thanks!
I'm trying to get work done as well (hvac) and prices have gone up in literally everything because people are still paying. Get 3 quotes from different contractors and compare.
I mean, HVAC is a busy business. They save people's lives when heating and cooling systems break. In the middle of winter or summer, they can basically charge whatever they want.
I've called places that didn't have any availability for non-emergencies for 6 months.
You make it sound like Crassus had it right.
Love the reference!
It just seems crazy! $1k unit, $3k in labor?? Even at $150 per hour that's 20 hours to put an insert into an existing fireplace and wire it up?? Thanks!
Regarding the electric fireplace insert, is there already a dedicated electric circuit in place for it? The labor may be in running new electric lines and establishing a new circuit.
Similarly, an island hood is going to require a place to vent to. Does an existing vent exist or would they be punching a hole in an external wall? If the latter is true, then $3k doesn't seem too far-fetched.
My thoughts exactly on the fireplace insert. If there's already existing electric or gas, adding an appropriate insert is a downright simple job. My parents needed a new gas unit over Thanksgiving and it was maybe an hour to swap them with a couple basic hand tools.
If it's just a bare fireplace, though, then that gets into a whole mess of complexity depending on the home's layout. My house is flat-roofed and doesn't have a crawlspace, and the electrical panel is nowhere near the fireplace. Switching from a gas to an electric fireplace insert and getting a circuit run to it here would be a major operation.
The "labor" part of the bill is often used by contractors to obfuscate their profit margins on the material costs and/or lump some other charges they don't want to divulge under one costing head, that's one of the reasons it ends up higher.
Notwithstanding the probable fact that labor could be rightly costly in your locality, this part of the bill can almost always be easily negotiated or bargained. The discussions typically start with, "Why is the labor cost so high, can I get a discount or something here?". Depending on the contractor's urgent need to get that project, they will often agree to substantial discounts here.
I generally think of contractor quotes as what it will take for them to do the work, not what it costs. Prices can go up if they are busy (this is what it will cost for me to fit you in) or don’t really like the work (i don’t mind roofs but i had working on toilets…) etc etc If they’re hungry prices could be a lot lower.
Getting multiple quotes is the only way to figure it out.