I know it's in vogue to talk about how young men are getting a raw deal these days (with weird and wonderful claims such as that women are too picky in romantic partners, or that young men...
I am a teacher and I have worked with teenagers for almost 20 years. I have heard more stories of sexual harassment and violence than I can count. I have listened to girls describe their anxiety about living in an online world that pornifies them endlessly. I have spoken with hundreds of youngsters who are worried about the way everything is going, with the reactionary backlash to increasing freedoms, the Andrew Tates, the pressure to conform to narrow gender roles and beauty standards.
I know it's in vogue to talk about how young men are getting a raw deal these days (with weird and wonderful claims such as that women are too picky in romantic partners, or that young men underperform at school, or that we supposedly lack strong male role models or whatever other angst the media has) but as a young man I would say that young women have it much worse. A lot of the issues facing young men (career prospects, mental health) are also issues that young women face. The reverse is not true though.
I have never been sexually harassed (ogling, cat-calling, unwanted advances) let alone sexually assaulted. A really scary percentage of my female friends have though, and this is more or less uncommented on in the media. I don't know any male friends with eating disorders, but do know a few women who have suffered from them. They are really a terrible condition and I wouldn't wish one on anyone.
I definitely agree with most of what you say - especially that young women have it much worse, but I do want to mention that there definitely are male rape victims and males with eating disorders....
I definitely agree with most of what you say - especially that young women have it much worse, but I do want to mention that there definitely are male rape victims and males with eating disorders. Definitely don't want to discount them, and I definitely feel sympathy for them.
Why does every conversation about young men struggling have to devolve into "well women have it worse." It's not a competition and honestly its frustrating to have this idpol fight every time...
Why does every conversation about young men struggling have to devolve into "well women have it worse." It's not a competition and honestly its frustrating to have this idpol fight every time people try to discuss the issues they're facing. Just because someone else has it worse than you doesn't mean your problems suddenly don't matter anymore.
Also for OP, have you ever thought you may not have known any men with eating disorders because they were too ashamed to tell anyone? Sincerely, someone who grew up bulimic with severe food anxiety. I couldn't eat around groups of people without immediately having to go to the bathroom to vomit for years. I still struggle with nausea issues when eating in public to this day though its much better than when I was younger.
Why is a post focused on a feminist strike suddenly now supposed to cater to a conversation about young men struggling? Speaking of "what about the ...?" why does a post about Icelandic women...
Exemplary
Why does every conversation about young men struggling have to devolve into "well women have it worse."
Why is a post focused on a feminist strike suddenly now supposed to cater to a conversation about young men struggling? Speaking of "what about the ...?" why does a post about Icelandic women striking and speaking out about sexism and inequality have like 80% of the comments (8 out of 10 so far) talking about men and men's problems and how to include men and make things better for men and don't forget about the men? In a thread dedicated to a feminist strike and equality, respect, and understanding for women?
in this instance OP literally started with "but what about women" haha
This thread is literally supposed to be about women striking and protesting the gender inequality women deal with. And yet the vast majority of comments have been focused on men. The irony of these comments would be funny if it weren't so sad.
Because this comment thread literally started out with That's the only reason I brought it up. It's not like it came out of nowhere I think its you who are missing the irony my friend. In a post...
Because this comment thread literally started out with
"I know it's in vogue to talk about how young men are getting a raw deal these days (...) but as a young man I would say that young women have it much worse. A lot of the issues facing young men (...) are also issues that young women face. The reverse is not true though."
That's the only reason I brought it up. It's not like it came out of nowhere
The irony of these comments would be funny if it weren't so sad.
I think its you who are missing the irony my friend. In a post about women's struggles, OP immediately felt the need to compare them to men's struggles and belittle them, instead of just observing them in a vacuum. But feel free to leave a relevant comment on the subject since you are so inclined.
Quite frankly, most discussion about men's issues (and this is a MAJOR generalization and very broad), to me feels like it comes from a "but what about men" type of energy, whereas creating...
Quite frankly, most discussion about men's issues (and this is a MAJOR generalization and very broad), to me feels like it comes from a "but what about men" type of energy, whereas creating equality for women has a more "let's make everything better for everyone" type of energy. This is a very specific feeling to me and I'm sure there's something that I'm overlooking, but I'm also kinda tired of opening the same can of worms that people have discussed on this site already.
This topic is posted in ~life.women and is about a women's strike. It's completely reasonable for OP (who explicitly mentioned being a young man) to say "hey I know we talk a lot about men's...
Exemplary
This topic is posted in ~life.women and is about a women's strike. It's completely reasonable for OP (who explicitly mentioned being a young man) to say "hey I know we talk a lot about men's issues but we shouldn't forget how many issues there still are that disproportionately affect and disadvantage women". It's not really "but what about women" when it's posted in a space dedicated to talking about women's issues.
It's disheartening to see that (as of this writing), there is literally only one comment that isn't focused on this discussion of whether OP should've compared men's and women's issues, which has a strong tenor of "how dare you compare women's experiences to men's and reach the conclusiom that women have it worse". If I were a woman new to tildes, this would probably turn me off the site because I would (perhaps correctly) come to the conclusion that any discussion about women's issues will inevitably be undermines by "but what about men" people, just like in many spaces on reddit and other sites with a majority-male userbase.
Yeah, I came in to this thread hoping to learn more about the strike which I've seen on social media, but I felt the need to correct OP by mentioning that there are men who definitely suffer....
Yeah, I came in to this thread hoping to learn more about the strike which I've seen on social media, but I felt the need to correct OP by mentioning that there are men who definitely suffer. Either way I think this topic has gone off the rails.
I know you worded this very carefully, presumably to avoid being inaccurate, but it's pretty misleading when this statistic is trotted out without mentioning that, statistically, women in the West...
yet it is men who disproportionately succumb to suicide (about 3-4x more than women in the West), just as it is women who disproportionately experience sexual harassment.
I know you worded this very carefully, presumably to avoid being inaccurate, but it's pretty misleading when this statistic is trotted out without mentioning that, statistically, women in the West are more likely to attempt suicide. Mentioning the male suicide stats without this statistic can lead many to the false conclusion that women attempt suicide 3-4x less often than men and therefore suffer less from mental health, rather than the more nuanced reality that men tend to choose deadlier methods when they attempt suicide.
From my point of view, there’s a direct link between some of the problems young men are grappling and those experienced by women, with the former being a major driver of the latter. Lack of good...
From my point of view, there’s a direct link between some of the problems young men are grappling and those experienced by women, with the former being a major driver of the latter.
Lack of good male role models and strong images of positive masculinity is a problem because it leads young men who want to feel confident and good about themselves to become enchanted by old misogynistic ideas of “manly men” and primes them for falling into the grips of figures like Tate.
I think it’s going to be very difficult to improve the situation for women without also giving young men something better to latch onto, because it’s going to be like cutting a weed without pulling up the root: it’ll just keep growing back.
This one is frustrating because boys are born at a higher rate than girls, and even though boys/men sadly do die at a higher rate than girls/women, they still outnumber them until approximately 60...
...with weird and wonderful claims such as that women are too picky in romantic partners...
This one is frustrating because boys are born at a higher rate than girls, and even though boys/men sadly do die at a higher rate than girls/women, they still outnumber them until approximately 60 years old in wealthy western nations (it's around 50 when you look at the world population as a whole). While women as a whole do outnumber men, this is driven by the outsize number of elderly women.
This means that even if every single woman under the age of 60 partnered up with a man, regardless of her personal preferences, there would still be a lot of men left without a sub-60 woman to partner with.
In practice, of course, a large percentage of both men and women are single. When we look at the data (e.g., this Pew poll), we see that young and middle-aged men are single at a higher rate than young and middle-aged women. It is only in older age groups, where wives are widowed at a much higher rate than husbands are, that the trend reverses and we see more single elderly women than single elderly men. This is consistent with the younger age groups skewing male and older age groups skewing female.
As we improve male health outcomes (which is absolutely the right thing to do, regardless of the dating woes it may cause, and I support it wholeheartedly), we will see the population trend further male over time. Historically, sex ratios skewed more female — e.g, in 1950, 30-year-old women outnumbered 30-year-old men — but this would have been due to the sheer number of men tragically dying before their time.
All of that being said, I've never understood why we'd have to play this game of who has it worse. I do think that there is room in this world to talk about all issues, not just those faced by specific demographics. It should not just be "in vogue" to talk about men's issues; we should have been doing it all along, just like we should have been talking about women's issues, and we should continue talking about both for as long as men and women still exist. These issues should be at the forefront of everyone's mind, regardless of gender, because we are all in this together and we have got to help each other.
It genuinely does suck to be single against your will, even if it's no one's fault but our stupid biology (an issue, I should note that also affects many women, just at a lower rate). It genuinely does suck to have an undue chance of dying across all age groups, from the womb to the twilight years (as issue that also affects many women, just at a lower rate). Likewise, men also absolutely do face sexual assault (which is far too often ignored or forgotten, as you yourself have demonstrated) and severe mental health issues (including dangerous eating disorders — look at virtually any popular male actor today to see the absurd body fat percentages that some men abuse their bodies to achieve).
Whether a victim of some crime or circumstance is a man, a woman, non-gendered, etc., they suffer just as badly. Regardless of what our external body looks like, regardless of how we've been raised, regardless of how we choose to express our identity to the world, we are all just humans inside. We all deserve to be cared about and listened to.
I know it's in vogue to talk about how young men are getting a raw deal these days (with weird and wonderful claims such as that women are too picky in romantic partners, or that young men underperform at school, or that we supposedly lack strong male role models or whatever other angst the media has) but as a young man I would say that young women have it much worse. A lot of the issues facing young men (career prospects, mental health) are also issues that young women face. The reverse is not true though.
I have never been sexually harassed (ogling, cat-calling, unwanted advances) let alone sexually assaulted. A really scary percentage of my female friends have though, and this is more or less uncommented on in the media. I don't know any male friends with eating disorders, but do know a few women who have suffered from them. They are really a terrible condition and I wouldn't wish one on anyone.
I definitely agree with most of what you say - especially that young women have it much worse, but I do want to mention that there definitely are male rape victims and males with eating disorders. Definitely don't want to discount them, and I definitely feel sympathy for them.
Why does every conversation about young men struggling have to devolve into "well women have it worse." It's not a competition and honestly its frustrating to have this idpol fight every time people try to discuss the issues they're facing. Just because someone else has it worse than you doesn't mean your problems suddenly don't matter anymore.
Also for OP, have you ever thought you may not have known any men with eating disorders because they were too ashamed to tell anyone? Sincerely, someone who grew up bulimic with severe food anxiety. I couldn't eat around groups of people without immediately having to go to the bathroom to vomit for years. I still struggle with nausea issues when eating in public to this day though its much better than when I was younger.
Why is a post focused on a feminist strike suddenly now supposed to cater to a conversation about young men struggling? Speaking of "what about the ...?" why does a post about Icelandic women striking and speaking out about sexism and inequality have like 80% of the comments (8 out of 10 so far) talking about men and men's problems and how to include men and make things better for men and don't forget about the men? In a thread dedicated to a feminist strike and equality, respect, and understanding for women?
This thread is literally supposed to be about women striking and protesting the gender inequality women deal with. And yet the vast majority of comments have been focused on men. The irony of these comments would be funny if it weren't so sad.
Because this comment thread literally started out with
That's the only reason I brought it up. It's not like it came out of nowhere
I think its you who are missing the irony my friend. In a post about women's struggles, OP immediately felt the need to compare them to men's struggles and belittle them, instead of just observing them in a vacuum. But feel free to leave a relevant comment on the subject since you are so inclined.
Quite frankly, most discussion about men's issues (and this is a MAJOR generalization and very broad), to me feels like it comes from a "but what about men" type of energy, whereas creating equality for women has a more "let's make everything better for everyone" type of energy. This is a very specific feeling to me and I'm sure there's something that I'm overlooking, but I'm also kinda tired of opening the same can of worms that people have discussed on this site already.
You may be right, but in this instance OP literally started with "but what about women" haha
This topic is posted in ~life.women and is about a women's strike. It's completely reasonable for OP (who explicitly mentioned being a young man) to say "hey I know we talk a lot about men's issues but we shouldn't forget how many issues there still are that disproportionately affect and disadvantage women". It's not really "but what about women" when it's posted in a space dedicated to talking about women's issues.
It's disheartening to see that (as of this writing), there is literally only one comment that isn't focused on this discussion of whether OP should've compared men's and women's issues, which has a strong tenor of "how dare you compare women's experiences to men's and reach the conclusiom that women have it worse". If I were a woman new to tildes, this would probably turn me off the site because I would (perhaps correctly) come to the conclusion that any discussion about women's issues will inevitably be undermines by "but what about men" people, just like in many spaces on reddit and other sites with a majority-male userbase.
It was posted in ~news and wasn't moved to ~life.women until a few hours after the comment you replied to.
Ah okay that's fair, I only encountered it once it was already in ~life.women and didn't think to check the sidebar since I'm on my phone
Yeah, I came in to this thread hoping to learn more about the strike which I've seen on social media, but I felt the need to correct OP by mentioning that there are men who definitely suffer. Either way I think this topic has gone off the rails.
I know you worded this very carefully, presumably to avoid being inaccurate, but it's pretty misleading when this statistic is trotted out without mentioning that, statistically, women in the West are more likely to attempt suicide. Mentioning the male suicide stats without this statistic can lead many to the false conclusion that women attempt suicide 3-4x less often than men and therefore suffer less from mental health, rather than the more nuanced reality that men tend to choose deadlier methods when they attempt suicide.
From my point of view, there’s a direct link between some of the problems young men are grappling and those experienced by women, with the former being a major driver of the latter.
Lack of good male role models and strong images of positive masculinity is a problem because it leads young men who want to feel confident and good about themselves to become enchanted by old misogynistic ideas of “manly men” and primes them for falling into the grips of figures like Tate.
I think it’s going to be very difficult to improve the situation for women without also giving young men something better to latch onto, because it’s going to be like cutting a weed without pulling up the root: it’ll just keep growing back.
This one is frustrating because boys are born at a higher rate than girls, and even though boys/men sadly do die at a higher rate than girls/women, they still outnumber them until approximately 60 years old in wealthy western nations (it's around 50 when you look at the world population as a whole). While women as a whole do outnumber men, this is driven by the outsize number of elderly women.
This means that even if every single woman under the age of 60 partnered up with a man, regardless of her personal preferences, there would still be a lot of men left without a sub-60 woman to partner with.
In practice, of course, a large percentage of both men and women are single. When we look at the data (e.g., this Pew poll), we see that young and middle-aged men are single at a higher rate than young and middle-aged women. It is only in older age groups, where wives are widowed at a much higher rate than husbands are, that the trend reverses and we see more single elderly women than single elderly men. This is consistent with the younger age groups skewing male and older age groups skewing female.
As we improve male health outcomes (which is absolutely the right thing to do, regardless of the dating woes it may cause, and I support it wholeheartedly), we will see the population trend further male over time. Historically, sex ratios skewed more female — e.g, in 1950, 30-year-old women outnumbered 30-year-old men — but this would have been due to the sheer number of men tragically dying before their time.
All of that being said, I've never understood why we'd have to play this game of who has it worse. I do think that there is room in this world to talk about all issues, not just those faced by specific demographics. It should not just be "in vogue" to talk about men's issues; we should have been doing it all along, just like we should have been talking about women's issues, and we should continue talking about both for as long as men and women still exist. These issues should be at the forefront of everyone's mind, regardless of gender, because we are all in this together and we have got to help each other.
It genuinely does suck to be single against your will, even if it's no one's fault but our stupid biology (an issue, I should note that also affects many women, just at a lower rate). It genuinely does suck to have an undue chance of dying across all age groups, from the womb to the twilight years (as issue that also affects many women, just at a lower rate). Likewise, men also absolutely do face sexual assault (which is far too often ignored or forgotten, as you yourself have demonstrated) and severe mental health issues (including dangerous eating disorders — look at virtually any popular male actor today to see the absurd body fat percentages that some men abuse their bodies to achieve).
Whether a victim of some crime or circumstance is a man, a woman, non-gendered, etc., they suffer just as badly. Regardless of what our external body looks like, regardless of how we've been raised, regardless of how we choose to express our identity to the world, we are all just humans inside. We all deserve to be cared about and listened to.
Good luck to them. Everything they stand for could make us better people if it became the norm.