Did I f-up?
My spouse and I went to dinner with my parents in law tonight. Father-IL can be hard in Mother-IL generally speaking, often picking on her and 'teasing' her. Mostly criticism. It can make things pretty uncomfortable, but as mid-westerners do, rarely my spouse or the other family people speak up unless it's to rib back in order to deflect or make it stop. FIL and MIL are both in their late 70's, so aging, and conservative catholic, so daily drinkers. We went to dinner tonight to celebrate my MIL's birthday. FIL is generally stressed out due to drama with his siblings/health issues/he's just a super stressed out person, and he ordered something in a wrap and asked for no onion. Meal came and there was onions. FIL complains passively to us and we say he should say something. He says, "no, no, no."
Server came and asked, "how is everything?"
FIL says "it's fine, it's fine"
MIL starts to say, "well..."
FIL interrupts with, "shut your mouth, MIL!"
Awkward silence...eat dinner when it comes...everyone is trying to act like nothing happened.
We finish dinner and we're finishing our drinks and MIL asks, "myspouse, are you okay?"
My spouse says stilted, "yeah, I'm fine."
MIL says, "world, are you okay?"
And out of me erupted, sternly but not with a yell, towards my FIL, "it's not okay to say 'shut your mouth' yo your wife."
Everyone got quiet. Then FIL tried to defend himself and say, "I've rarely ever said that, something something, I don't need this."
Then he shut me down so I just said, "heared, heard" and left.
He said in the car on the way home, "maybe I over reacted, but..."
And I said, "I shouldn't have said anything, I know you're under a lot of stress."
Now everything is awkward and strained and quiet. I don't need to be adding more to an already stressful life situation for older folk whom I do care about, but I couldn't hold my tongue. How does one strike balance in a situation like that?
In every family you're balancing trying to get along with trying to help each other be better. It sounds like you made a situation where everyone but your FIL was uncomfortable into one where your FIL gets to share in the discomfort rather than him being rude and having everyone else just swallow their feelings. But there's no perfect answer. Perhaps your FIL will change. Perhaps he'll be different when you're around, but not in other circumstances. Perhaps he won't change, and he'll take out his embarrassment on your MIL.
What does your wife think about the situation?
Thank you for that balanced reply. You make some good points, and I appreciate you bringing up my FIL being drawn down into the same discomfort that the rest of us our feeling by my calling things out. You're right, its a balancing act, and there are not always right solutions.
My spouse says I'm right in what I say, but that considering how stressful things are maybe I should try to be more diplomatic in the future. Not wrong, but I sometimes reach an exhaustion point with peoples unfettered rudeness, and the enabelsim that often comes with that. So, as you pointed at, perhaps my outburst will readjust some boundaries, better or worse.
Maybe instead of holding your tongue until exhaustion, at which point what you want to say “erupts” out, you can try smaller immediate intervention instead. The former is a sudden escalation, intense, and separated from the original cause, which at best will be jarring for everyone and put the subject on defense even if they’d otherwise be receptive. The latter lets you try to gently nudge people before things go too far, while everyone is still (relatively) calm, and get a read on the room to decide on the best next step if it continues - which may eventually be a big public reprimand, a heartfelt private conversation, or something else depending on what you learned.
Well pointed. Making an aside, or saying something leading rather than burst is a good call. I'm going to keep that in mind. Thank you.
It's fine and good to be mindful of cultural and generational differences, but what you did was ultimately the right thing. The only thing that's worth thinking twice about is how to say things tactfully, but you shouldn't second guess yourself on the general message.
Yeah, tackt is a skill worth practicing even in the midst of frustration. Thank you.
In my opinion, everybody else f-up, you did not... except for the part at the end where you tried to backtrack.
A psychologically healthy person is able to express their needs and set boundaries - calmly, directly, politely:
When people are not able to do that, it results in a bunch of unhealthy psychological reactions, like acting your emotions out on someone else, manipulative/passive-aggressive behaviors (like saying "I am okay" but sitting there the rest of the evening with stiff face to let everybody know how hurt I am), guilt-tripping as if you are the bad guy for stating facts, not them - in the Czech language we have a saying for this: "don't blame the mirror when your face is ugly".
BTW, this might sound like I am trying to criticize you but I am trying to help you - I think you are reacting in an unhealthy way. It is about boundaries - you are accepting responsibility for someone else's feelings. You stated something that you believe is true - people should not tell their wives to shut up. There is nothing wrong with that. If this made them feel bad... well, that is not your problem, that is their problem. You are just the mirror reflecting the ugly face. It is not your obligation to make anyone feel good for their actions.
In Gestalt therapy, there is something often called the Gestalt "prayer", which I think summarizes this nicely:
I do my thing and you do your thing.
I am not in this world to live up to your expectations,
And you are not in this world to live up to mine.
You are you, and I am I,
and if by chance we find each other, it's beautiful.
If not, it can't be helped.
— Fritz Perls, "Gestalt Therapy Verbatim", 1969
EDIT: and one more important thing - suppressed emotions do not disappear. Had you not said anything, you would pay the price. Maybe you would have a headache that evening. Maybe you would yell at some maintenance guy for some seemingly unrelated small thing the next day. And if suppressing your emotions out of fear of unpleasantness were your general pattern, maybe you would end up with a heart attack... or worse, you would end up a bitter old man who uses his wife as a lightning rod.
It seems to me that you can be proud of yourself. You had the guts to face a certain level of social awkwardness and point out something unjust instead of just letting that slide. I admire that.
Thank you for that thoughtful reply. You make some very good points.
I agree with the other commenters; calling out bad behaviour is the moral response, and shining a light on it caused FIL to at least look at his bad behaviour.
Starting a confrontation can cause sudden and unexpected rifts to form in any social group, so I would take caution in case you find yourself 'responsible' for a falling out. Not everyone can see fraught situations as clearly as internet commenters with one side of the story.
Consider taking a non-aggressive approach. If FIL has an outburst, openly ask MIL if she is okay, that you understand how hurtful that would have been. I can only imagine that this kind of compassion would resonate with the family while also making it clear to FIL that he has hurt someone with his actions.
Asking MIL if she's okay in that immediate moment is an excellent way to respond. I'm definitely going to keep that in mind for future occurrences. Thank you!
This is also excellent advice because it centers the conversation on MIL and her personhood, needs, and experience instead of shining more of a spotlight on FIL. (He doesn't need one).
the general term for this is bystander intervention
it's often talked about in terms of more serious behavior, such as rape or sexual assault. and as a family member, you weren't entirely a bystander, strictly speaking.
but I think it's a useful framework nonetheless.
the general pattern is that Alice is misbehaving towards Bob in some way, and Carlos, Daniel, Erin, and Frank are all bystanders who witness the event.
it can be tempting for all of them to say "none of my business", and look away. that's the easy option, in many ways. training in bystander intervention focuses on overriding that impulse.
I think you absolutely did the right thing, overall. we can monday-morning-quarterback possible better things you could have said in the moment, but the important thing is that you said something.
Thank you for that break down, it's informative. I've also really appreciated how others have brought up how I might still effectively say something in ways that aren't so fueled by my own immediate anger. Posting this has given me a lot to think about.
If you said something like that to stick up for me, I would appreciate it. Whether it's enough to help your MIL, who knows. It's a lot like saying "have a good night" to your neighbor in the elevator, and sometimes that kindness is enough to make my day, at least.
How does your wife feel about things?
I answered the same question to an earlier comment. My spouse thinks I was right in what I said, but not necessarily in how I handled it.