Work life balance in a startup
I was just looking at a job posting. It's fully remote, good pay, and almost a perfect match to my skill set. It's got a somewhat humanitarian aspect to its mission even if there are also profit motive aspects.
I looked at glass door, and the overwhelming majority of the reviews are, "it's not a bad place to work, but it doesn't have good work life balance." Or "expect startup culture hours".
If you want to see the job posting, DM me and I'm happy to share, but I don't want to publish a public link when I might apply for it.
My question for Tildes is, what experience do you have just saying no to overtime / forcing management to prioritize by just telling them you can't do everything / etc? Is this workable if your work is good and you make an effective contribution in a 40-50 hour week? What are your success or failure stories? Strategies you used for vetting the team / manager? Other things I should be thinking about?
Thanks as usual for any thoughts.
Ime, I sucked at establishing any work life balance at start-ups. For background, I am in biotech/pharma, have worked for 3-4 startups including Angel Stage and pre and post IPO companies. Have also worked in academia, hybrid, Fortune 500, and independent consulting, ymmv based on field.
Advice : set and establish boundaries from the onset. “I do not look at my work emails/phone etc. past 5pm on weekdays. I do not respond to emails/phone after this time.” “I do not stay at the office past 5pm on weekdays, if I am required to be working outside of normal hours this needs to be requested in advance.” You can ask, in interviews “are people expected to respond to emails outside of work ?” They will ofc say no or obfuscate, but you could do this to get a feel of how honest the company is.
Take vacations and take them regularly - especially if you have “unlimited” vacation - because, as studies have shown, people actually take less vacation when they have this option due to “pressure”. Do this early to establish a pattern that you value your time and will use the benefits given to you. Notice behaviors like this and see if it’s a pattern. I worked at a company that took away paid out accrued time in exchange for expiratory time that could not be cashed out (two weeks paid vacation that must be used within the year, cannot rollover etc.). They tried to spin this as something good for us “we want you to take your time off !” Which could be true, but it’s also cheaper for them in the long run if no one uses it AND they now don’t have to pay out. I’m not mad about the policy necessarily, but the way they present it as a benefit to you and you only is bullshit and I consider an orange flag.
Do not shift your personal schedule to accommodate them. Don’t cancel doctor’s appointments or move things around. You need to set the precedent that your time is your priority.
Do not over perform under the guise of setting a good first impression, because they will expect you to work at this rate forever.
Do not offer to do work outside of your listed responsibilities and stick to this when people ask you to do it “just this one time”. Similar to above, they will never remove these responsibilities, only add more.
Be aware of your own growing dependency on work “perks” - how often do you stay late or indulge in happy hours or free food ? Free gym ? Free parking ? A lot of that is to distract you from how much of your time is being spent living at work basically, and blurring the lines between work and life.
I’d say some other odds and ends:
The phrases “wear multiple hats” “ever changing priorities” “adapt to the high pace pressure and changes” “nimbleness” and “pivot” and “agility” are all code words for “we will change the goal posts and the game all the time so be ready for it”. Any wording around being a “family” or any variation of “we work hard, but play hard” are all orange to red flags imo.
I say all of the above in the context of - ideal situation where your employer is willing to listen and you are the type of person to stand strong and hold yourself accountable. I’d say this is not the common circumstance of a start up and your biggest battle will be against fighting your peer’s culture and pressure. Many people stay late or come early or respond to emails while on vacation. This always makes you “look bad” or “lazy” so you eventually feel pressured to do the same.
Lastly, a lot of start up life IS cool, fun, exciting:
You get to have huge impact as an early adopter.
You often have fewer rules and regulation so you can be more creative.
If funding is good, you can truly do some exciting cutting edge stuff that other places would not take a risk on.
You can meet some truly impassioned and unique people that you will bond with over a shared goal.
It’s a lot of fun for someone in the eager/hungry/high energy phase of their life, but it is exhausting. I enjoyed it a lot in my early twenties and then the distaste for it grew after 30 and got quite strong afterwards.
Sorry for the novella, I hope helps, feel free to ask any other questions and I hope your search/interviews go well !
Fantastic advice.
One thing I would add, when you say no to things, just leave it at “no.” Do not give an explanation.
I used to work in EMS, and they used the guise of “it’s an emergency we need you” alllll the time. I found if I said it things like “I can’t because of xyz,” they would find holes in the xyz to try and leverage you to come in still. Much harder to argue when you are firm and offer nothing to work with.
Applying for a job in a startup with concerns for work/life balance is like going to a sports bar while having issues being around alcoholics.
Startups are all about consuming as much of your life as they can.
You even read reviews about that particular startup having poor work/life balance.
Do yourself a favor and look elsewhere.
I echo this sentiment. The reviews are very telling.
Most people won’t even risk saying something remotely “negative,” let alone outright criticize by stating there is poor work life balance, this tends to mean the reality is even worse than what the posters are willing to share.
Keep this in mind, OP.
Seriously. What more does the OP need than people who tried to work there posting that the work/life balance isn't good?
For me it comes down to if I enjoy the work I'm doing. If I am not it is time to leave (given that's feasible), if I do enjoy the work then work-life balance isn't an issue. I am fortunate in that I currently have a lot of leeway in how I choose to spend my time. Some days I might work 4 hours others I might do 12. The important thing to me isn't the exact amount of time, it's about the value I create. So far this attitude has served me well career wise, but that could just be an indication that I work too much (overall).
That said. Getting praised for doing a task well or expedientlyight be nice, but at the end of the day it's a business arrangement. Be loyal to people not organizations. If a colleague asks for help, I tend to drop everything and aid them to the best of my ability. If a boss tells a team that they need to "go the extra mile" or some such nonsense for the for of the company, then I would likely start looking for an exit.
As for vetting a team/manager I don't think there is a solid way to do that unless you know someone who works for/with them. Glassdoor gives one perspective, but that is skewed to people who have left the place for various reasons. Talking to the team & manager is often your best bet, but be aware that you'll likely not see/hear anything that will out you off (unless they are truly transparent and looking for someone who will thrive in their particular environment, which can be very hard to tell).
My recommendation for others is to pick jobs primarily based on your impression of your immediate boss/manager. Secondly on your impression of the team. A distant third would be based on the work you expect to be doing. A bad boss can make life really difficult and working with people you despise will be soul crushing. In contrast doing some meanial work you don't enjoy, but in good company can still be rewarding.
Agree with valuing people over corporate!!! Very good point.
Your direct manager influences your willingness to stay at a company more than anyone else. See if your manager seems like a pushover (they do not stand up for their own team). You can do this by asking, “when your team has met failure, how have you responded ?” Or “when a decision is made that is outside of your control, that you don’t agree with, how do you respond ?” An example of this can be certain “go-no-go” decisions. Or ask them if they have ever had an unpopular opinion and how did that go lol.
Ask their direct reports “what style manager is so and so ? What are your 1:1 meetings like ? Walk me through an example of one”.
Check how long your manager has been at the company, do they have managerial experience ? If so, how much and in what contexts (other start ups? How large of a team? Etc.)
Try to get as much info from the direct reports as possible, since they will know your manager the most. Pay attention to their attitude and what they do or don’t say and how they say it.
I want to reiterate the above poster though with their great point regarding people vs purpose. You can love a company’s mission, but if the day to day and operations is miserable, it’s not worth it and it will feel like a drag.
There are multiple variable here, but are you willing to work for a few years in a "startup-like-environement" with less than ideal work-life-balance, given the right compensation (equity, pay, etc)?
If your answer is No to the above question, be upfront about it during the interview.
All interviews are going to have some time for your questions. Bring up the question of what type of work culture they have, and be straight about what you're looking for.
It is quite possible that the company had a growth stage in the past and had a different culture, but are at a point where they're trying to change this.
I have worked at startups and large enterprises, and both have their pros and cons, and what type of environment you prefer to work in is purely up to you!
I know this doesn't answer your primary question, which seems to be more from a perspective of wanting to work at a place where you have a mismatch with the expectations of what the management has for you.
I personally try to avoid these situation, and if I find myself in one, start looking for another job immediately.
I've mostly worked startups over an 8 year tech career. With larger startups - 20+ devs it's basically a lot like a more typical job.
With smaller startups, as I'm in right now (4 devs) overtime just makes more sense, as you can feel and see your impacts so much. I think those of us who do it unfortunately put implicit pressure on those who don't, but I feel enough ownership of the codebase that I'm content to work late to change that thing that's bugging me, and I'm empowered to do it by process that has a lil more wiggle.
A early stage startup usually isn’t looking to hire a whole lot of people. If most companies want people who really care about the work the companies is doing and is both at a stage of life where they can spend a lot of time working and is okay with it, they’re not going to hire a lot of people. But that’s acceptable for startups.
Most workers should not have that kind of relationship with their employer. But most workers don’t work at a startup.
It doesn’t sound like this kind of work is suited for how you want to live your life. It is what it is, but I wouldn’t take the opportunity.