Right now it is cold and rainy here in São Paulo, plus the city is pretty packed-in as it is, outdoor classes are a pipe dream here and in any megametropolis IMO. I studied in a public school and...
Right now it is cold and rainy here in São Paulo, plus the city is pretty packed-in as it is, outdoor classes are a pipe dream here and in any megametropolis IMO.
I studied in a public school and it was overcrowded already, with around 35 to 40 students in a single classroom, multiply that by 8 to 12 rooms per grade, and multiply that by 2 or 3 grades and you have around 800-1200 students in the same school at the same time, the cafeteria definitely didn't have enough space for all students nor the covered gym area.
Unless the weather is perfect and there is enough space for all students, this is as impossible as it gets. Right now, the state education system is broadcasting classes over the internet and over TV, while the school teachers back that material up with their own subjects. For something made up in a hurry, it is somewhat okay.
Uhhh, in a little known place called "Canada" we have a strange natural phenomena occur on a yearly cycle called "winter". It just so happens that the school year historically starts and ends...
Uhhh, in a little known place called "Canada" we have a strange natural phenomena occur on a yearly cycle called "winter". It just so happens that the school year historically starts and ends around said cycle.
In all seriousness come late October in most of Canada it would be too cold to do this and it wouldn't be until April, at the earliest, that you could consider this idea practical. High schools here run from September to June. Elementary goes until July. For this to work properly (in Canada anyway, it's totally different in hot and dry climates) the year would have to run through the summer. As much as the hot weather would suck, it'd be a whole lot more practical than a -25ºC blizzard sitting in half a metre of snow. Obviously that would never happen, but the cold would be unbearable well above freezing. Try holding a pencil or typing for most of the day in 10ºC weather. You'd cramp up before lunch. Then try 5ºC.
I don't mind the current plan of sending students to school in shifts so that classrooms are less full. It's something, nowhere near ideal, but online instruction is the only dumb blunt tool we have that keeps people physically apart. There's really nothing else.
I don't think holding classes outside means that everyone has to remain outside at all times. If the buildings are only used sparingly, just for the bathrooms and maybe some other facilities, I...
I don't think holding classes outside means that everyone has to remain outside at all times. If the buildings are only used sparingly, just for the bathrooms and maybe some other facilities, I wouldn't imagine that'd erase all or even most of the benefits of holding outdoor classes.
Bathrooms are not that huge of an issue. People just aren't going to be holding class in some random clearing in a forest, but outside some building, possibly in the school's garden or some public...
Bathrooms are not that huge of an issue. People just aren't going to be holding class in some random clearing in a forest, but outside some building, possibly in the school's garden or some public park: they still need access to things like food, drinks, plumbing, the Internet, and assorted school supplies, which I don't think people would be willing to haul on their shoulders, not on top of their average loadout.
I can see a bigger problem, though, besides weather: noise, especially if the students will have to maintain an 1-2 m distance from each other. Classrooms can mostly insulate you from it, like they allow better control of lightning levels, and getting yourself heard is still hard enough. I wouldn't fancy trying to hold a lesson under those conditions.
A better idea than the "let's start lessons at 7:00 and teach in shifts!" that people have been talking about in Italy, but I don't see it working except for a few selected locations. Weather gets...
A better idea than the "let's start lessons at 7:00 and teach in shifts!" that people have been talking about in Italy, but I don't see it working except for a few selected locations. Weather gets pretty extreme here, swinging from snow in the winter to this week's 36°C+ heatwave, and even if it didn't?
There are parks, but not, I'd wager, enough for all the students in the area, and they'd have other issues: noise from traffic, glare from the sun, people just wandering off... I think it could help, but it's not going to solve anything by itself. At this point, I'm not even sure if this can be fixed, or if we will be losing another year half-assing online learning.
Something to keep in mind: education is simultaneously universal but also deeply diverse, to the point that there won't ever be any feasible one-size-fits-all solution. Thus, it's easy to point to...
Something to keep in mind: education is simultaneously universal but also deeply diverse, to the point that there won't ever be any feasible one-size-fits-all solution. Thus, it's easy to point to this as a non-starter at scale, but, like the article, I do think it's something that can be considered by specific communities in the specific circumstances. I actually know some teachers who ran an outdoor learning program, and it was incredible, but that kind of solution is something that can only happen on an individual basis and can't be deployed as a cure-all for the country. I don't think we should wholly discard the idea of outdoor schooling, I think it should be seen as a potential pivot for individual schools existing under very specific conditions (e.g. largely agreeable weather, logistical considerations of space/noise/contingencies able to be adequately and safely addressed, curricular design based around that setting, etc.).
A small group of activists across the country are pushing for schools to consider teaching children in person, but outdoors in a park or even a parking lot. Outdoor time has always been healthy for kids, but that’s especially the case now: One study found that the odds of catching the coronavirus are nearly 20 times higher indoors than outdoors. Though it isn’t free of problems, learning outside might be the only way to provide parents with a break, kids with an adequate education, and teachers with protection from the coronavirus.
It might sound crazy, but kids learn outside all the time, and did so even before the pandemic. About 250 “forest schools” exist in the U.S., in which younger kids spend much of their time in nature, and some have stayed open during the pandemic. In Denmark and Italy, some schools have reopened in recent months because students are spending as much of their day outdoors as possible. Outdoor school has even been tried during past epidemics: In the early 1900s, during a tuberculosis outbreak in Rhode Island, kids attended a school with the windows always open, even in the winter. They sat in sleeping-bag-like blankets and had heated soapstones placed at their feet, The New York Times reported. Eventually, there were 65 such “open air” schools around the country.
Some of the logistical challenges to this vision are still being ironed out. The idea is that kids would wear jackets or head for the gym or cafeteria on rainy or cold days—and schools would transition to online learning in mid-November, before the weather turned truly frosty in much of the country.
Some of these challenges wouldn’t be impossible to overcome in temperate states such as California. In fact, if outdoor education does happen on a broad scale, it opens up the possibility that only the states with the best weather would be able to educate children in person year-round. However, this might give way to yet another coronavirus-induced educational disparity: between kids who live in blustery climates and kids who don’t.
Full disclosure: I haven't read the article. But the very first thing I thought of is that, in Louisiana, open-air schools are completely untenable til probably October. It's feels-like 104 F...
it opens up the possibility that only the states with the best weather would be able to educate children in person year-round.
Full disclosure: I haven't read the article. But the very first thing I thought of is that, in Louisiana, open-air schools are completely untenable til probably October. It's feels-like 104 F (like, 40 C) this week, and it'll be in the 90s (33+) until mid-September.
Likewise Arizona, Nevada, parts of California, Utah, etc. Even for states that aren't deserts, there has been a heat dome over much of the US for the last week. Weird weather happens! How big are...
Likewise Arizona, Nevada, parts of California, Utah, etc. Even for states that aren't deserts, there has been a heat dome over much of the US for the last week. Weird weather happens!
The idea is that kids would wear jackets or head for the gym or cafeteria on rainy or cold days
How big are your gyms or cafeterias? In the schools I attended as a kid we either had so many students we split them between multiple lunch periods, or we could fit every student in a gym or cafeteria, but they were basically shoulder-to-shoulder. (Which also meant you couldn't teach them, you could only do stuff like rallies.)
Great point. My highschool was built for about 1000 students and by the time I graduated there were something like 1700. So it was already overcrowded, without distancing. And that was ... 12...
How big are your gyms or cafeterias?
Great point. My highschool was built for about 1000 students and by the time I graduated there were something like 1700. So it was already overcrowded, without distancing. And that was ... 12 years ago?
There was a social phenomenon called the "open air movement". I first heard about it in this short youtube video by Prof. Bill Hammack. I think it was largely seen as a remedy or preventative...
There was a social phenomenon called the "open air movement". I first heard about it in this short youtube video by Prof. Bill Hammack. I think it was largely seen as a remedy or preventative measure against Tuberculosis and it fits in with a broader anti-urbanization or naturopathic tendency that I've seen in response to industrialization in that time period.
Apparently some of these schools would have the children sleep outside, regardless of the weather. You can see in the second picture linked, there is a class session taking place with snow on the ground.
Right now it is cold and rainy here in São Paulo, plus the city is pretty packed-in as it is, outdoor classes are a pipe dream here and in any megametropolis IMO.
I studied in a public school and it was overcrowded already, with around 35 to 40 students in a single classroom, multiply that by 8 to 12 rooms per grade, and multiply that by 2 or 3 grades and you have around 800-1200 students in the same school at the same time, the cafeteria definitely didn't have enough space for all students nor the covered gym area.
Unless the weather is perfect and there is enough space for all students, this is as impossible as it gets. Right now, the state education system is broadcasting classes over the internet and over TV, while the school teachers back that material up with their own subjects. For something made up in a hurry, it is somewhat okay.
I’ve had outdoor classes during a strike. It wasn’t even a super nice place full of trees but it was cool.
Uhhh, in a little known place called "Canada" we have a strange natural phenomena occur on a yearly cycle called "winter". It just so happens that the school year historically starts and ends around said cycle.
In all seriousness come late October in most of Canada it would be too cold to do this and it wouldn't be until April, at the earliest, that you could consider this idea practical. High schools here run from September to June. Elementary goes until July. For this to work properly (in Canada anyway, it's totally different in hot and dry climates) the year would have to run through the summer. As much as the hot weather would suck, it'd be a whole lot more practical than a -25ºC blizzard sitting in half a metre of snow. Obviously that would never happen, but the cold would be unbearable well above freezing. Try holding a pencil or typing for most of the day in 10ºC weather. You'd cramp up before lunch. Then try 5ºC.
I don't mind the current plan of sending students to school in shifts so that classrooms are less full. It's something, nowhere near ideal, but online instruction is the only dumb blunt tool we have that keeps people physically apart. There's really nothing else.
There’s no reason this has to be the case though (other than we missed the possible summer session window), right?
Right. The historical reason is because children were expected to be working on the family farm in the summer and early fall.
I like the idea despite the obstacles of weather and lack of real estate (in super urban areas), but what do you do about bathrooms?
I don't think holding classes outside means that everyone has to remain outside at all times. If the buildings are only used sparingly, just for the bathrooms and maybe some other facilities, I wouldn't imagine that'd erase all or even most of the benefits of holding outdoor classes.
Bathrooms are not that huge of an issue. People just aren't going to be holding class in some random clearing in a forest, but outside some building, possibly in the school's garden or some public park: they still need access to things like food, drinks, plumbing, the Internet, and assorted school supplies, which I don't think people would be willing to haul on their shoulders, not on top of their average loadout.
I can see a bigger problem, though, besides weather: noise, especially if the students will have to maintain an 1-2 m distance from each other. Classrooms can mostly insulate you from it, like they allow better control of lightning levels, and getting yourself heard is still hard enough. I wouldn't fancy trying to hold a lesson under those conditions.
A better idea than the "let's start lessons at 7:00 and teach in shifts!" that people have been talking about in Italy, but I don't see it working except for a few selected locations. Weather gets pretty extreme here, swinging from snow in the winter to this week's 36°C+ heatwave, and even if it didn't?
There are parks, but not, I'd wager, enough for all the students in the area, and they'd have other issues: noise from traffic, glare from the sun, people just wandering off... I think it could help, but it's not going to solve anything by itself. At this point, I'm not even sure if this can be fixed, or if we will be losing another year half-assing online learning.
Something to keep in mind: education is simultaneously universal but also deeply diverse, to the point that there won't ever be any feasible one-size-fits-all solution. Thus, it's easy to point to this as a non-starter at scale, but, like the article, I do think it's something that can be considered by specific communities in the specific circumstances. I actually know some teachers who ran an outdoor learning program, and it was incredible, but that kind of solution is something that can only happen on an individual basis and can't be deployed as a cure-all for the country. I don't think we should wholly discard the idea of outdoor schooling, I think it should be seen as a potential pivot for individual schools existing under very specific conditions (e.g. largely agreeable weather, logistical considerations of space/noise/contingencies able to be adequately and safely addressed, curricular design based around that setting, etc.).
Full disclosure: I haven't read the article. But the very first thing I thought of is that, in Louisiana, open-air schools are completely untenable til probably October. It's feels-like 104 F (like, 40 C) this week, and it'll be in the 90s (33+) until mid-September.
Likewise Arizona, Nevada, parts of California, Utah, etc. Even for states that aren't deserts, there has been a heat dome over much of the US for the last week. Weird weather happens!
How big are your gyms or cafeterias? In the schools I attended as a kid we either had so many students we split them between multiple lunch periods, or we could fit every student in a gym or cafeteria, but they were basically shoulder-to-shoulder. (Which also meant you couldn't teach them, you could only do stuff like rallies.)
Great point. My highschool was built for about 1000 students and by the time I graduated there were something like 1700. So it was already overcrowded, without distancing. And that was ... 12 years ago?
There was a social phenomenon called the "open air movement". I first heard about it in this short youtube video by Prof. Bill Hammack. I think it was largely seen as a remedy or preventative measure against Tuberculosis and it fits in with a broader anti-urbanization or naturopathic tendency that I've seen in response to industrialization in that time period.
Apparently some of these schools would have the children sleep outside, regardless of the weather. You can see in the second picture linked, there is a class session taking place with snow on the ground.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCS0sr29Jiw
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_air_school
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_air_school#/media/File:Openluchtschool_in_de_vrieskou_Open-air_school_in_the_freezing_cold_(3915530627).jpg
http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/gallery/2002/10/03/jamespark_.jpg