There is power in stories. Most people don't make data driven decisions. Mostly people rely on stories. It's stories like this that will make it harder to work from home without spyware installed.
There is power in stories.
Most people don't make data driven decisions.
Mostly people rely on stories.
It's stories like this that will make it harder to work from home without spyware installed.
Yeah, this being posted in the WSJ means it is essentially outrage porn for anti-remote work managers. Of course, it is their fault if they aren't staying on top of their team and keeping them...
Yeah, this being posted in the WSJ means it is essentially outrage porn for anti-remote work managers. Of course, it is their fault if they aren't staying on top of their team and keeping them busy. And if they can cast blame on someone being at fault other than them, they will.
Is spyware even effective? I imagine a lot of the worst offenders for this are in tech where some jobs have lots of head down time and less meetings -- people who can also easily run 2 or 3 VMs...
It's stories like this that will make it harder to work from home without spyware installed.
Is spyware even effective? I imagine a lot of the worst offenders for this are in tech where some jobs have lots of head down time and less meetings -- people who can also easily run 2 or 3 VMs each with their own flavour of corporate spyware.
I think its more likely that sites like LinkedIn will start letting you verify your account and companies will start requiring you to have one. Hard to have two girlfriends when they are both looking at the same instagram.
I find it particularly interesting that you have this clear dichotomy in the article. People who are doing this are either working 100 hour weeks, effectively working 2 jobs, or often not even...
I find it particularly interesting that you have this clear dichotomy in the article. People who are doing this are either working 100 hour weeks, effectively working 2 jobs, or often not even hitting 40 hours and looking to take some power back from corporations which exploit the workforce.
You are welcome! And yeah, the resulting amount of worked hours each week would be too stressful for me to even think about picking up a second job while I am remote. I would say I do ~20 hours of...
You are welcome!
And yeah, the resulting amount of worked hours each week would be too stressful for me to even think about picking up a second job while I am remote. I would say I do ~20 hours of work a week but think I would rather keep filling that empty time by working out, learning something new, taking naps, or doing household chores. My partner works in a job right now doing 50+ hour work weeks and I don't envy her or the salary attached to that one bit.
I've been working 10-30 hours a week for the last five years at least, and I still get stellar reviews and people asking me how I do things so quickly. A lot of it is the nature of the field I...
I've been working 10-30 hours a week for the last five years at least, and I still get stellar reviews and people asking me how I do things so quickly. A lot of it is the nature of the field I work in, and the fact that I'm quite good at problem solving, politics, and just plain think differently than most others. I would never want to work 2 jobs. I make enough money to support my activities and support my partners which don't have as much, it gives me free time to exercise, do household chores, or otherwise keep myself happy.
I have one partner who is basically working M-F and almost never schedules anything on weekday evenings - I suspect he is doing at least 50 hours a week on average, perhaps more. I don't envy that and don't want to work that way either. I got a taste of >40 hour workweeks at the beginning of the pandemic because I ended up in charge of our health systems infrastructure related to COVID readiness and response - tracking patients, positivity rate, labs, supplies such as n-95 masks, gowns, gloves, respirators, and more and was working 60-80 hour weeks with no real weekend or time off for about 1.5-2 months and it took a huge toll on my physical and mental health.
Uhh, hey WSJ. You wanna shut up about it? I've worked from home for a number of years, on average the number of hours of actual work/attention needed for a job is in the 10-20 hours range. The...
Uhh, hey WSJ. You wanna shut up about it?
I've worked from home for a number of years, on average the number of hours of actual work/attention needed for a job is in the 10-20 hours range. The rest is largely sitting around waiting for other people to do their job or something to happen. Sure there are some hectic weeks that pull "long hours" to get to the 40 hour mark (I don't do overtime unless it's an emergency and I'm needed, otherwise I keep a strict work/life balance), but they're rare and usually the result of someone not doing their job to prevent the issue in the first place. Despite only needing 10-20 actual hours to work, I'm expected to be available for 40. So if I'm going to have to be at a desk, waiting for something to happen, for a 40 hours a week I see no problem with making twice as much by doing it at two jobs instead.
If one job starts to require more time/work than I believe it is worth, I'm willing to quit that job and look for another. I try to keep one job I actually want and another as the side job. They both get the same amount of attention, but if the latter gets to be too much it just gets cut and replaced. First job pays the bills, second job is used only for fun money, investment, etc. this way I'm not reliant on the second job's income.
I've got a bunch, mostly silly "nobody but me would be worried about that" stuff How do you handle putting these jobs on your resume? Have you ever mixed up who works with you at which job? What's...
I've got a bunch, mostly silly "nobody but me would be worried about that" stuff
How do you handle putting these jobs on your resume?
Have you ever mixed up who works with you at which job?
What's your field if not programming?
Do neither job require you to log your hours or report billable hours?
What's the closest you've come to having someone figure your arrangement out?
Does it ever feel like you've got a super unstable jinga tower waiting for something to cause it to tumble?
Is your computer/phone constantly going off because of work chats/emails/meetings? Do you hear the chimes in your sleep?
Nah, they're valid concerns. I don't put the secondary job itself on the resume, but I do add the skills/tools etc used/gained from it under other jobs. Only a couple of times, usually right at...
I've got a bunch, mostly silly "nobody but me would be worried about that" stuff
Nah, they're valid concerns.
How do you handle putting these jobs on your resume?
I don't put the secondary job itself on the resume, but I do add the skills/tools etc used/gained from it under other jobs.
Have you ever mixed up who works with you at which job?
Only a couple of times, usually right at the start, and I just say it was someone I worked with at the previous job. It helps that I'm already terrible with names.
What's your field if not programming?
Still in software. There's a lot of people upstream and downstream of the actual programmers.
Do neither job require you to log your hours or report billable hours?
Nope and I wouldn't take a job that does so. One has an hour log requirement at present, but it's not super specific. Just a log of X hours on X client to keep track of internally should a client start being a burden and need an increase in their retainer. The rest of the time is logged as general work.
What's the closest you've come to having someone figure your arrangement out?
Had a coworker ask about it when out to a department lunch (at this time the main job was remote, but local) when I got an emergency phone call as she was nosey and saw the company name pop up on the screen as who was calling. Told her I do some contractor work on the side. I have a job history that spans multiple fields/industries, I make it a point to not hold two jobs in the same industry so there's zero chance of violating NDA or working with someone that can be perceived as a competitor.
Does it ever feel like you've got a super unstable jinga tower waiting for something to cause it to tumble?
From time to time both jobs can get demanding, knowing that it'll be temporary I just recognize that it's the price of having two jobs and deal with it. It dies back down and everything is fine, but it's not anything I see as being difficult to manage. I know my work ethic, ability, etc. If it seems like it's getting too much because one job is requiring more time constantly then I decide if I want to continue with that job.
Is your computer/phone constantly going off because of work chats/emails/meetings? Do you hear the chimes in your sleep?
Sometimes, but not usually. I have found a good balance of companies with mature teams that don't need constant hand holding or questions. They ping when they need something, I do the same.
I don't put anything work related on my phone, period. If a job wants me to be available via phone (other than the occasional phone call during work hours), they have to provide it and I am to be paid accordingly for the always available expectation it brings. If they don't like that, I walk; plain and simple. So far I've only had one primary job that did so and they later took the phone back when I moved to a different role, but I kept the raise. Otherwise, it's emails, chats, and video meetings/calls; there's little to no reason I should be using personal property for work matters.
No chimes during my sleep outside of the occasional work related dream we all have. However I've found my work related dreams only pop up during work related stress that can be directly attributed to my own procrastination. I'm better at getting things done immediately now than I was in my earlier years, but I'll-do-that-later boredom does still crop up from time to time. It's better to do things immediately especially if they're mundane, but I (not trying to boast or anything) work incredibly well under pressure and if it's something that's mentally stimulating (because we all know most work is monotonous) I will occasionally push it to later just for the rush.
Does your job have concrete, measurable outputs? e.g. lines of code or tickets closed. Does your job have concrete, measurable goals? e.g. increase x metric by 10%, reduce y metric by 10%? Do you...
Does your job have concrete, measurable outputs? e.g. lines of code or tickets closed.
Does your job have concrete, measurable goals? e.g. increase x metric by 10%, reduce y metric by 10%?
Do you consider yourself quantitatively as productive as other employees?
Do you aspire to move up the organizational ranks at any point in your career?
No. The jobs I've held are typically with smaller companies (under 50 employees) and to keep it simple you're expected to get your work done. There have been, and continue to be, expectations, on...
Does your job have concrete, measurable outputs? e.g. lines of code or tickets closed.
No. The jobs I've held are typically with smaller companies (under 50 employees) and to keep it simple you're expected to get your work done. There have been, and continue to be, expectations, on how fast projects/tasks are delivered/completed/clients responded to, but I've never had some quota to reach for something as micromanaging as that.
Does your job have concrete, measurable goals? e.g. increase x metric by 10%, reduce y metric by 10%?
Previous jobs did, the current jobs do not. Which is a wonderful thing in my opinion as the goals/key performance initiatives/what-have-you always felt like bullshit from middle-management to justify their existence.
Do you consider yourself quantitatively as productive as other employees?
Yes. Being critical of my own performance I'm well within the above average group amongst peers and find myself recognized/rewarded/promoted in accordance with it. When pressed/under stress I tend to greatly exceed others.
Do you aspire to move up the organizational ranks at any point in your career?
I aspire for greater income and challenges, not some made up title. I'm perfectly fine being in a leadership role where I am the architect instead of the mason, but have little interest in the meeting-filled people management aspects that many aspire to reach.
Well I can't fault you, except for somehow ending up reporting to some terrible managers in the past? I like concrete goals like increasing sales, reducing churn, increasing satisfaction,...
Well I can't fault you, except for somehow ending up reporting to some terrible managers in the past?
I like concrete goals like increasing sales, reducing churn, increasing satisfaction, increasing references, but then I am in middle management, so I would, wouldn't I...
I've had terrible managers, I've had great managers, part of my job now involves managing others, but my "style" of management is very light handed and thus far worked a treat. So it would appear....
Well I can't fault you, except for somehow ending up reporting to some terrible managers in the past?
I've had terrible managers, I've had great managers, part of my job now involves managing others, but my "style" of management is very light handed and thus far worked a treat.
I like concrete goals like increasing sales, reducing churn, increasing satisfaction, increasing references, but then I am in middle management, so I would, wouldn't I...
So it would appear. Having to concern myself with sales or references sounds like hell. Reducing churn and increasing satisfaction is, from my point of view, the result of a job/service/product well done. If I give them what they want/need in a timely manner and they aren't happy, then there isn't much I can do about it. I like challenges and problems to solve.
I can't relate to this at all. I work remote and while there are certainly slow-downs here and there, I have zero interest in taking on another job. I get having to work two jobs, but choosing to?...
I can't relate to this at all. I work remote and while there are certainly slow-downs here and there, I have zero interest in taking on another job. I get having to work two jobs, but choosing to? No thanks. Having to stay on top of deadlines, meetings, and emails for two completely separate companies sounds like a nightmare. Doubling my salary would be life-changing, but even half-assing it at both jobs would take way more time/effort/energy than it's worth, imo.
I'd rather do one job really well, get raises, and jump-ship every few years for pay bigger bumps.
I can totally relate. One of the huge strangleholds that employers have on employees is that they control the source of income. No income, no place to live (generally), etc. Having two jobs in the...
I can totally relate.
One of the huge strangleholds that employers have on employees is that they control the source of income. No income, no place to live (generally), etc.
Having two jobs in the time layout of a single job (such as saved commute time, more efficient workflows, etc) is a great hedge, and if one job should decide that your services are no longer needed, you as an employee are not screwed.
This also allows a person to maintain their mental health since a job no longer holds nearly as much economic power over them.
A security check on a US company has reportedly revealed one of its staff was outsourcing his work to China.
The software developer, in his 40s, is thought to have spent his workdays surfing the web, watching cat videos on YouTube and browsing Reddit and eBay.
There is power in stories.
Most people don't make data driven decisions.
Mostly people rely on stories.
It's stories like this that will make it harder to work from home without spyware installed.
Yeah, this being posted in the WSJ means it is essentially outrage porn for anti-remote work managers. Of course, it is their fault if they aren't staying on top of their team and keeping them busy. And if they can cast blame on someone being at fault other than them, they will.
Ed Zitron (whose newsletter talks a lot about remote work) had a good rant about this article and its framing yesterday: The Two-Jobby Problem
Is spyware even effective? I imagine a lot of the worst offenders for this are in tech where some jobs have lots of head down time and less meetings -- people who can also easily run 2 or 3 VMs each with their own flavour of corporate spyware.
I think its more likely that sites like LinkedIn will start letting you verify your account and companies will start requiring you to have one. Hard to have two girlfriends when they are both looking at the same instagram.
Did the fact that it doesn't work ever stop organisations from buying, mandating, and using a piece of software, though?
I find it particularly interesting that you have this clear dichotomy in the article. People who are doing this are either working 100 hour weeks, effectively working 2 jobs, or often not even hitting 40 hours and looking to take some power back from corporations which exploit the workforce.
Fascinating article, thank you for sharing.
You are welcome!
And yeah, the resulting amount of worked hours each week would be too stressful for me to even think about picking up a second job while I am remote. I would say I do ~20 hours of work a week but think I would rather keep filling that empty time by working out, learning something new, taking naps, or doing household chores. My partner works in a job right now doing 50+ hour work weeks and I don't envy her or the salary attached to that one bit.
I've been working 10-30 hours a week for the last five years at least, and I still get stellar reviews and people asking me how I do things so quickly. A lot of it is the nature of the field I work in, and the fact that I'm quite good at problem solving, politics, and just plain think differently than most others. I would never want to work 2 jobs. I make enough money to support my activities and support my partners which don't have as much, it gives me free time to exercise, do household chores, or otherwise keep myself happy.
I have one partner who is basically working M-F and almost never schedules anything on weekday evenings - I suspect he is doing at least 50 hours a week on average, perhaps more. I don't envy that and don't want to work that way either. I got a taste of >40 hour workweeks at the beginning of the pandemic because I ended up in charge of our health systems infrastructure related to COVID readiness and response - tracking patients, positivity rate, labs, supplies such as n-95 masks, gowns, gloves, respirators, and more and was working 60-80 hour weeks with no real weekend or time off for about 1.5-2 months and it took a huge toll on my physical and mental health.
Uhh, hey WSJ. You wanna shut up about it?
I've worked from home for a number of years, on average the number of hours of actual work/attention needed for a job is in the 10-20 hours range. The rest is largely sitting around waiting for other people to do their job or something to happen. Sure there are some hectic weeks that pull "long hours" to get to the 40 hour mark (I don't do overtime unless it's an emergency and I'm needed, otherwise I keep a strict work/life balance), but they're rare and usually the result of someone not doing their job to prevent the issue in the first place. Despite only needing 10-20 actual hours to work, I'm expected to be available for 40. So if I'm going to have to be at a desk, waiting for something to happen, for a 40 hours a week I see no problem with making twice as much by doing it at two jobs instead.
If one job starts to require more time/work than I believe it is worth, I'm willing to quit that job and look for another. I try to keep one job I actually want and another as the side job. They both get the same amount of attention, but if the latter gets to be too much it just gets cut and replaced. First job pays the bills, second job is used only for fun money, investment, etc. this way I'm not reliant on the second job's income.
Lol.
Questions.
I have so many questions.
Are you a programmer/ engineer?
Do you have a linkedin?
Ask away.
Nope.
Nope.
I've got a bunch, mostly silly "nobody but me would be worried about that" stuff
Nah, they're valid concerns.
I don't put the secondary job itself on the resume, but I do add the skills/tools etc used/gained from it under other jobs.
Only a couple of times, usually right at the start, and I just say it was someone I worked with at the previous job. It helps that I'm already terrible with names.
Still in software. There's a lot of people upstream and downstream of the actual programmers.
Nope and I wouldn't take a job that does so. One has an hour log requirement at present, but it's not super specific. Just a log of X hours on X client to keep track of internally should a client start being a burden and need an increase in their retainer. The rest of the time is logged as general work.
Had a coworker ask about it when out to a department lunch (at this time the main job was remote, but local) when I got an emergency phone call as she was nosey and saw the company name pop up on the screen as who was calling. Told her I do some contractor work on the side. I have a job history that spans multiple fields/industries, I make it a point to not hold two jobs in the same industry so there's zero chance of violating NDA or working with someone that can be perceived as a competitor.
From time to time both jobs can get demanding, knowing that it'll be temporary I just recognize that it's the price of having two jobs and deal with it. It dies back down and everything is fine, but it's not anything I see as being difficult to manage. I know my work ethic, ability, etc. If it seems like it's getting too much because one job is requiring more time constantly then I decide if I want to continue with that job.
Sometimes, but not usually. I have found a good balance of companies with mature teams that don't need constant hand holding or questions. They ping when they need something, I do the same.
I don't put anything work related on my phone, period. If a job wants me to be available via phone (other than the occasional phone call during work hours), they have to provide it and I am to be paid accordingly for the always available expectation it brings. If they don't like that, I walk; plain and simple. So far I've only had one primary job that did so and they later took the phone back when I moved to a different role, but I kept the raise. Otherwise, it's emails, chats, and video meetings/calls; there's little to no reason I should be using personal property for work matters.
No chimes during my sleep outside of the occasional work related dream we all have. However I've found my work related dreams only pop up during work related stress that can be directly attributed to my own procrastination. I'm better at getting things done immediately now than I was in my earlier years, but I'll-do-that-later boredom does still crop up from time to time. It's better to do things immediately especially if they're mundane, but I (not trying to boast or anything) work incredibly well under pressure and if it's something that's mentally stimulating (because we all know most work is monotonous) I will occasionally push it to later just for the rush.
Thank you! This was all very very interesting
You are welcome.
Does your job have concrete, measurable outputs? e.g. lines of code or tickets closed.
Does your job have concrete, measurable goals? e.g. increase x metric by 10%, reduce y metric by 10%?
Do you consider yourself quantitatively as productive as other employees?
Do you aspire to move up the organizational ranks at any point in your career?
No. The jobs I've held are typically with smaller companies (under 50 employees) and to keep it simple you're expected to get your work done. There have been, and continue to be, expectations, on how fast projects/tasks are delivered/completed/clients responded to, but I've never had some quota to reach for something as micromanaging as that.
Previous jobs did, the current jobs do not. Which is a wonderful thing in my opinion as the goals/key performance initiatives/what-have-you always felt like bullshit from middle-management to justify their existence.
Yes. Being critical of my own performance I'm well within the above average group amongst peers and find myself recognized/rewarded/promoted in accordance with it. When pressed/under stress I tend to greatly exceed others.
I aspire for greater income and challenges, not some made up title. I'm perfectly fine being in a leadership role where I am the architect instead of the mason, but have little interest in the meeting-filled people management aspects that many aspire to reach.
Well I can't fault you, except for somehow ending up reporting to some terrible managers in the past?
I like concrete goals like increasing sales, reducing churn, increasing satisfaction, increasing references, but then I am in middle management, so I would, wouldn't I...
I've had terrible managers, I've had great managers, part of my job now involves managing others, but my "style" of management is very light handed and thus far worked a treat.
So it would appear. Having to concern myself with sales or references sounds like hell. Reducing churn and increasing satisfaction is, from my point of view, the result of a job/service/product well done. If I give them what they want/need in a timely manner and they aren't happy, then there isn't much I can do about it. I like challenges and problems to solve.
I can't relate to this at all. I work remote and while there are certainly slow-downs here and there, I have zero interest in taking on another job. I get having to work two jobs, but choosing to? No thanks. Having to stay on top of deadlines, meetings, and emails for two completely separate companies sounds like a nightmare. Doubling my salary would be life-changing, but even half-assing it at both jobs would take way more time/effort/energy than it's worth, imo.
I'd rather do one job really well, get raises, and jump-ship every few years for pay bigger bumps.
I can totally relate.
One of the huge strangleholds that employers have on employees is that they control the source of income. No income, no place to live (generally), etc.
Having two jobs in the time layout of a single job (such as saved commute time, more efficient workflows, etc) is a great hedge, and if one job should decide that your services are no longer needed, you as an employee are not screwed.
This also allows a person to maintain their mental health since a job no longer holds nearly as much economic power over them.
That's one way to do it, but I prefer this guy's approach:
This takes me back to the year or so when The Four Hour Work Week was really popular.