Honestly, I don't think so. Trump sells headlines, people on the left click out of hatred or morbid curiosity, people on the right click out of fellating fantasies, but there's a fat middle that...
Honestly, I don't think so.
Trump sells headlines, people on the left click out of hatred or morbid curiosity, people on the right click out of fellating fantasies, but there's a fat middle that are sick of it all and they comprise a much larger chunk than people want to admit. People that saw Jan 6 as seditious, that see his lies for what they are, and take his many many indictments seriously.
These aren't the people that march in the streets, show up to rallies, get interviewed for sound bites, or even have a political sign in their yard. They quietly vote and I'm of the opinion that he's going to lose the Primaries badly.
I'd believe that if Trump wasn't leading random polls of Republicans. Obviously he dominates the media scene, but according to joe public, he's still their guy on average (among republican voters...
I'd believe that if Trump wasn't leading random polls of Republicans. Obviously he dominates the media scene, but according to joe public, he's still their guy on average (among republican voters of course).
I'm sure some people have changed their minds to pursue other flavors of the GOP agenda, but I'd warrant that January 6th doesn't really mean anything to Republicans at large.
I’d guess that enough of those people would choose Trump if the choice was either him or Biden though. They’ll take him over any Democratic candidate because the agenda is what matters.
I'm sure some people have changed their minds to pursue other flavors of the GOP agenda, but I'd warrant that January 6th doesn't really mean anything to Republicans at large.
I’d guess that enough of those people would choose Trump if the choice was either him or Biden though. They’ll take him over any Democratic candidate because the agenda is what matters.
Some people see it that way. Others see it as a group of people trying to stop the government from suppressing them and their chosen candidate’s victory. The latter group is a lot larger than many...
People that saw Jan 6 as seditious, that see his lies for what they are, and take his many many indictments seriously.
Some people see it that way. Others see it as a group of people trying to stop the government from suppressing them and their chosen candidate’s victory. The latter group is a lot larger than many of us want to admit. I think people on the left really underestimate the fact that Republicans don’t care who wins, as long as they are willing to enact their policies.
This seems like wishful thinking. Most Republicans think Trump's indictments are completely politically motivated. It's still early and as we all know by now polls aren't perfect, but Trump is far...
This seems like wishful thinking. Most Republicans think Trump's indictments are completely politically motivated. It's still early and as we all know by now polls aren't perfect, but Trump is far and away the leader in national primary polls, even further ahead than he was in the 2016 primary.
They also don't vote and certainly not in primaries. Now you have to convince them to show up and vote, and vote for someone who's not Trump. I don't see which candidate can pull that off, frankly...
These aren't the people that march in the streets, show up to rallies, get interviewed for sound bites, or even have a political sign in their yard.
They also don't vote and certainly not in primaries. Now you have to convince them to show up and vote, and vote for someone who's not Trump. I don't see which candidate can pull that off, frankly from either side of the aisle.
There are definitely Republicans (or former Republicans, at least) who dislike Trump and voted against him in the last election. I can definitely see them turning out and voting Biden if Trump...
There are definitely Republicans (or former Republicans, at least) who dislike Trump and voted against him in the last election. I can definitely see them turning out and voting Biden if Trump gets the nomination -- my dad was a lifelong Republican and made that switch. But I agree that I can't see them showing up enough to the primaries and, more importantly, rallying around a single alternative candidate, enough to disrupt Trump's base. I think the fact that the extremism in the Republican party has been driving away moderate Republicans only exacerbates this.
I think that's exactly right. That middle group is what won Trump the election the first time, but I don't think they'll swing that way again after the events of the last 4+ years.
but there's a fat middle that are sick of it all and they comprise a much larger chunk than people want to admit.
I think that's exactly right. That middle group is what won Trump the election the first time, but I don't think they'll swing that way again after the events of the last 4+ years.
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to strongly disagree with him losing the primaries. The GOP has sold out hard on the idea of the Trump the Demagogue and literally everyone else in the primary...
They quietly vote and I'm of the opinion that he's going to lose the Primaries badly.
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to strongly disagree with him losing the primaries. The GOP has sold out hard on the idea of the Trump the Demagogue and literally everyone else in the primary race is trying to carve out their own niche of his style, none of them working. The closest one that's come to it is DeSantis, and he pissed off one of the most influential companies in the country.
The general election, however? That's a different story. Trump was soundly rejected in 2020, which already hurts his chances to try again. The GOP has had a really had time sticking anything on Biden outside of the Hunter Biden "scandal" that they keep trying to drum up outrage over. This is the same formula that led to his victory in 2020. While I am not excited about a man in his 70s running the country, considering the alternative means that I can live with it.
I have never voted for a Republican in my life. I used to be open to the possibility, but not anymore. I likely will never vote for a Republican. Biden is getting my vote. I appreciated the posted...
I have never voted for a Republican in my life. I used to be open to the possibility, but not anymore. I likely will never vote for a Republican.
Biden is getting my vote.
I appreciated the posted article because it has a list of Republican candidates which helps me think about the only questions for me in this election. Will Trump go to prison? Will he still get the Republican nomination as a felon. If not, who among the other candidates has the best chance?
Melissa Quinn, Kathryn Watson, Caitlin Yilek Updated on: September 11, 2023 The field of GOP presidential hopefuls was set after it grew substantially throughout May and into June, but with the...
Melissa Quinn, Kathryn Watson, Caitlin Yilek
Updated on: September 11, 2023
The field of GOP presidential hopefuls was set after it grew substantially throughout May and into June, but with the first presidential primary months away, a lot can change before voters head to the polls. Former President Donald Trump is considered the frontrunner among the Republican presidential hopefuls, but his pair of federal indictments by the Justice Department and two other indictments by local prosecutors in Georgia and New York could roil the ongoing presidential race.
The 2024 presidential incumbent
President Biden
The 2024 Republican presidential candidates
Donald Trump
Nikki Haley
Vivek Ramaswamy
Larry Elder
Asa Hutchinson
Tim Scott
Ron DeSantis
Mike Pence
Chris Christie
Doug Burgum
Will Hurd
The 2024 Democratic presidential candidates
Marianne Williamson
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
People's Party
Cornel West
The Republicans who are not yet in the 2024 presidential race
Glenn Youngkin
Who has dropped out of the 2024 presidential race?
Ah, 2 nutjobs from the Democrats generating worthless background static. That'll certainly keep things on-topic and not be a distraction from actual, important discussion. /s And then aside from...
Ah, 2 nutjobs from the Democrats generating worthless background static. That'll certainly keep things on-topic and not be a distraction from actual, important discussion. /s
And then aside from Biden, you've got a nasty smorgasbord of terrible people, any one of whom would be disastrous for the country.
I believe at that point though you're talking prior to vice presidents being chosen as running mates - I think it was actually the election after this (1804, with the 12th amendment) that vice...
I believe at that point though you're talking prior to vice presidents being chosen as running mates - I think it was actually the election after this (1804, with the 12th amendment) that vice presidents officially no longer were awarded as second place for presidential elections.
So effectively it doesn't really happen. The only other time I can think of was one of FDR's VPs (Garner?).
1800 was such a complicated and ridiculous affair that it caused the 12th amendment to be passed. My understanding is that the president and vice president election still was not a separate affair...
1800 was such a complicated and ridiculous affair that it caused the 12th amendment to be passed. My understanding is that the president and vice president election still was not a separate affair until after this election.
And the Garner one is definitely a gray area but it kind of counts. It's weird, the US is weird, and it smells bad. (Source: live in the US)
Quick edit to add that it shouldn't be surprising a vice president would run against their incumbent president under the older system where both had run for the same office (1796 election to 1800). Dramatically different circumstances than the current thing to be fair though.
I'll only vote for a republican that acknowledges January 6th and promises that those people will remain behind bars. Anything less than that is a non starter with me.
I'll only vote for a republican that acknowledges January 6th and promises that those people will remain behind bars.
That sounds reasonable, but frankly it's unsafe to vote Republican for the foreseeable future. Make sure you read all about Project 2025 before you vote. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025...
That sounds reasonable, but frankly it's unsafe to vote Republican for the foreseeable future. Make sure you read all about Project 2025 before you vote.
Sadly the article doesn't even go into it, which to me just shows how fucking awful journalism has become. We have an ex president who's about to run for president again and there's a TON of talk...
Sadly the article doesn't even go into it, which to me just shows how fucking awful journalism has become. We have an ex president who's about to run for president again and there's a TON of talk of pardons and what not, and yet it just tries to dance around the issue.
It is seriously disturbing how weak this article is at even stating their actual positions on any serious matter.
So that said after some wiki reading, looks like your options are -
Asa Hutchinson
Chris Christie
annnd that's mostly it. There's a few who I can't find any comment one way or the other on (which is pretty damning itself).
Oddly in my very brief search on the two I do feel they at least come off as "traditional" republicans, in that they probably actually believe in what they're trying to accomplish and don't like the direction the party has taken. I still wouldn't ever vote for them, but I wish that's all the party was these days instead of the fucking mess they've kickstarted.
Either way unless Trump has a heart attack and dies I don't think anyone is taking him down in the primaries. There's a very large conservative population that is currently under represented (as the dems are too left and the reps are fucking nuts), but those aren't the kind of votes that matter in primaries. The lunatics will support Trump and show up in droves and anyone sane who's there is going to get out voted.
You know this reductive take is really doing no one any favors. There's a seriously large portion of the country that disagrees with some of the louder stances or opinions of the democratic party....
You know this reductive take is really doing no one any favors.
There's a seriously large portion of the country that disagrees with some of the louder stances or opinions of the democratic party. I may not agree with them, but not every single one thinks the goal is to burn the government to ashes and kill everyone with a different skin tone or religion.
Then those people need to take the reigns and not passively let the people whom do want discriminate the hell out of minorities and women control the entire political narrative. From what I've...
Then those people need to take the reigns and not passively let the people whom do want discriminate the hell out of minorities and women control the entire political narrative.
From what I've seen over the last 30ish years of my political awareness, those hypothetical Republicans passively take a backseat, perpetually voting in crazier and crazier nutjobs "because I can't vote for a Democrat" despite actually agreeing with 99.9% of Democrat policy when you pitch it as a Republican policy.
And while I'm painting with broad strokes: Of the Republicans I know, in the several dozens, I can count on one hand the number that are neither heavily mysoginistic or racist. They don't see themselves like that, but when you point out that their support for a given Republican policy (or rejection of a specific Democratic one) leans into that, they go "Oh I'm not bigoted, I just support <very bigoted policy>."
The compassionate conservative that seeks a just society is, as best I can tell, a mythical creature.
Well if l we’re using anecdotes of the hundreds of people I’ve met from all over the political spectrum after years on and off volunteering in politics I’d argue they’re far from a myth in my...
Well if l we’re using anecdotes of the hundreds of people I’ve met from all over the political spectrum after years on and off volunteering in politics I’d argue they’re far from a myth in my experience.
And they “took the reigns “ about as much as they could and left the party when trump was the nominee.
But that’s now not good enough? They should join the party supporting outright lies and overthrow it? And that’s with a whole spectrum of beliefs there too. If that’s the logic shouldn’t you be joining the party as well?
No my point is that Trump received the second-most votes for President in 2020 than any other president in history. From the outsider perspective, nobody fled the party. If they did, it was an...
No my point is that Trump received the second-most votes for President in 2020 than any other president in history. From the outsider perspective, nobody fled the party. If they did, it was an insignificant minority that hasn't actually held sway. Not some large contingent. I'll maybe believe that exists if Trump wins the nomination and the Libertarian party gets something like 30% of the vote instead.
TBH Trump isn't really that far off from the regular status-quo Republicans, and I frankly always hated how so many Republicans tried to pretend he wasn't. The main difference is that he said the quiet part out loud.
But as far as compassionate conservatives....here's my litmus test question: How do you feel about affirmative action? The support or opposition to the policies is less important than the why of their answer. And the vast majority of Republicans "whys," in my experience, have boiled down to "I don' t understand what white male privilege is."
I get that, I was working at blockbuster when they wanted to throw me in jail if I sold a game to a kid like I was giving them drugs. There is a clear difference between Democrats and Republicans...
I get that, I was working at blockbuster when they wanted to throw me in jail if I sold a game to a kid like I was giving them drugs. There is a clear difference between Democrats and Republicans though and only the republicans run on hate for others.
Not really talking about the economic spectrum only or “left” on a global scale. Just what the average conservative who won’t vote trump will tell you. Usually it’s either one key issue like...
Not really talking about the economic spectrum only or “left” on a global scale. Just what the average conservative who won’t vote trump will tell you.
Usually it’s either one key issue like abortion or guns, a dislike of the more extreme elements of the Dems, or hating that both parties have decided that any sort of real budgeting no longer matters
Most Americans aren't referring to the economy when they mention the Left or the Right. In fact, I would wager that not only are most Americans not referring to that, but that most Americans have...
Most Americans aren't referring to the economy when they mention the Left or the Right. In fact, I would wager that not only are most Americans not referring to that, but that most Americans have never even heard of that. Honestly, I feel like you're taking left-right as an economic spectrum from the Political Compass and not from the traditional terms.
Trump vs Biden then
Honestly, I don't think so.
Trump sells headlines, people on the left click out of hatred or morbid curiosity, people on the right click out of fellating fantasies, but there's a fat middle that are sick of it all and they comprise a much larger chunk than people want to admit. People that saw Jan 6 as seditious, that see his lies for what they are, and take his many many indictments seriously.
These aren't the people that march in the streets, show up to rallies, get interviewed for sound bites, or even have a political sign in their yard. They quietly vote and I'm of the opinion that he's going to lose the Primaries badly.
I'd believe that if Trump wasn't leading random polls of Republicans. Obviously he dominates the media scene, but according to joe public, he's still their guy on average (among republican voters of course).
I'm sure some people have changed their minds to pursue other flavors of the GOP agenda, but I'd warrant that January 6th doesn't really mean anything to Republicans at large.
I’d guess that enough of those people would choose Trump if the choice was either him or Biden though. They’ll take him over any Democratic candidate because the agenda is what matters.
Some people see it that way. Others see it as a group of people trying to stop the government from suppressing them and their chosen candidate’s victory. The latter group is a lot larger than many of us want to admit. I think people on the left really underestimate the fact that Republicans don’t care who wins, as long as they are willing to enact their policies.
This seems like wishful thinking. Most Republicans think Trump's indictments are completely politically motivated. It's still early and as we all know by now polls aren't perfect, but Trump is far and away the leader in national primary polls, even further ahead than he was in the 2016 primary.
They also don't vote and certainly not in primaries. Now you have to convince them to show up and vote, and vote for someone who's not Trump. I don't see which candidate can pull that off, frankly from either side of the aisle.
There are definitely Republicans (or former Republicans, at least) who dislike Trump and voted against him in the last election. I can definitely see them turning out and voting Biden if Trump gets the nomination -- my dad was a lifelong Republican and made that switch. But I agree that I can't see them showing up enough to the primaries and, more importantly, rallying around a single alternative candidate, enough to disrupt Trump's base. I think the fact that the extremism in the Republican party has been driving away moderate Republicans only exacerbates this.
I think that's exactly right. That middle group is what won Trump the election the first time, but I don't think they'll swing that way again after the events of the last 4+ years.
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to strongly disagree with him losing the primaries. The GOP has sold out hard on the idea of the Trump the Demagogue and literally everyone else in the primary race is trying to carve out their own niche of his style, none of them working. The closest one that's come to it is DeSantis, and he pissed off one of the most influential companies in the country.
The general election, however? That's a different story. Trump was soundly rejected in 2020, which already hurts his chances to try again. The GOP has had a really had time sticking anything on Biden outside of the Hunter Biden "scandal" that they keep trying to drum up outrage over. This is the same formula that led to his victory in 2020. While I am not excited about a man in his 70s running the country, considering the alternative means that I can live with it.
As far as I'm aware, all they want to do is win. And as far as I'm concerned, the primary is mostly people competing to be Vice President.
I have never voted for a Republican in my life. I used to be open to the possibility, but not anymore. I likely will never vote for a Republican.
Biden is getting my vote.
I appreciated the posted article because it has a list of Republican candidates which helps me think about the only questions for me in this election. Will Trump go to prison? Will he still get the Republican nomination as a felon. If not, who among the other candidates has the best chance?
Melissa Quinn, Kathryn Watson, Caitlin Yilek
Updated on: September 11, 2023
The field of GOP presidential hopefuls was set after it grew substantially throughout May and into June, but with the first presidential primary months away, a lot can change before voters head to the polls. Former President Donald Trump is considered the frontrunner among the Republican presidential hopefuls, but his pair of federal indictments by the Justice Department and two other indictments by local prosecutors in Georgia and New York could roil the ongoing presidential race.
The 2024 presidential incumbent
The 2024 Republican presidential candidates
The 2024 Democratic presidential candidates
People's Party
The Republicans who are not yet in the 2024 presidential race
Who has dropped out of the 2024 presidential race?
Who's definitely not running in 2024?
Ah, 2 nutjobs from the Democrats generating worthless background static. That'll certainly keep things on-topic and not be a distraction from actual, important discussion. /s
And then aside from Biden, you've got a nasty smorgasbord of terrible people, any one of whom would be disastrous for the country.
When's the last time a vice president (pence)ran against their old running mate?
I believe at that point though you're talking prior to vice presidents being chosen as running mates - I think it was actually the election after this (1804, with the 12th amendment) that vice presidents officially no longer were awarded as second place for presidential elections.
So effectively it doesn't really happen. The only other time I can think of was one of FDR's VPs (Garner?).
1800 was such a complicated and ridiculous affair that it caused the 12th amendment to be passed. My understanding is that the president and vice president election still was not a separate affair until after this election.
And the Garner one is definitely a gray area but it kind of counts. It's weird, the US is weird, and it smells bad. (Source: live in the US)
Quick edit to add that it shouldn't be surprising a vice president would run against their incumbent president under the older system where both had run for the same office (1796 election to 1800). Dramatically different circumstances than the current thing to be fair though.
Last I had heard, Cornel West is now seeking the Green Party's nomination.
Huh, lasted a whole week before switching parties... All fourteen of his supporters must be confused.
I'll only vote for a republican that acknowledges January 6th and promises that those people will remain behind bars.
Anything less than that is a non starter with me.
That sounds reasonable, but frankly it's unsafe to vote Republican for the foreseeable future. Make sure you read all about Project 2025 before you vote.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
Note that the party has fully enabled and supported all of Trump's sedition and many congress people were actively involved in the coup.
Sadly the article doesn't even go into it, which to me just shows how fucking awful journalism has become. We have an ex president who's about to run for president again and there's a TON of talk of pardons and what not, and yet it just tries to dance around the issue.
It is seriously disturbing how weak this article is at even stating their actual positions on any serious matter.
So that said after some wiki reading, looks like your options are -
annnd that's mostly it. There's a few who I can't find any comment one way or the other on (which is pretty damning itself).
Oddly in my very brief search on the two I do feel they at least come off as "traditional" republicans, in that they probably actually believe in what they're trying to accomplish and don't like the direction the party has taken. I still wouldn't ever vote for them, but I wish that's all the party was these days instead of the fucking mess they've kickstarted.
Either way unless Trump has a heart attack and dies I don't think anyone is taking him down in the primaries. There's a very large conservative population that is currently under represented (as the dems are too left and the reps are fucking nuts), but those aren't the kind of votes that matter in primaries. The lunatics will support Trump and show up in droves and anyone sane who's there is going to get out voted.
It amazes me whenever I read that dems are too left. They are centre/centre-right at best based on my understanding of the economic spectrum.
Yea, too far left for libertarian and the alt right, I just hope to outlive the deplorables that want a government free dystopia.
You know this reductive take is really doing no one any favors.
There's a seriously large portion of the country that disagrees with some of the louder stances or opinions of the democratic party. I may not agree with them, but not every single one thinks the goal is to burn the government to ashes and kill everyone with a different skin tone or religion.
Then those people need to take the reigns and not passively let the people whom do want discriminate the hell out of minorities and women control the entire political narrative.
From what I've seen over the last 30ish years of my political awareness, those hypothetical Republicans passively take a backseat, perpetually voting in crazier and crazier nutjobs "because I can't vote for a Democrat" despite actually agreeing with 99.9% of Democrat policy when you pitch it as a Republican policy.
And while I'm painting with broad strokes: Of the Republicans I know, in the several dozens, I can count on one hand the number that are neither heavily mysoginistic or racist. They don't see themselves like that, but when you point out that their support for a given Republican policy (or rejection of a specific Democratic one) leans into that, they go "Oh I'm not bigoted, I just support <very bigoted policy>."
The compassionate conservative that seeks a just society is, as best I can tell, a mythical creature.
Well if l we’re using anecdotes of the hundreds of people I’ve met from all over the political spectrum after years on and off volunteering in politics I’d argue they’re far from a myth in my experience.
And they “took the reigns “ about as much as they could and left the party when trump was the nominee.
But that’s now not good enough? They should join the party supporting outright lies and overthrow it? And that’s with a whole spectrum of beliefs there too. If that’s the logic shouldn’t you be joining the party as well?
No my point is that Trump received the second-most votes for President in 2020 than any other president in history. From the outsider perspective, nobody fled the party. If they did, it was an insignificant minority that hasn't actually held sway. Not some large contingent. I'll maybe believe that exists if Trump wins the nomination and the Libertarian party gets something like 30% of the vote instead.
TBH Trump isn't really that far off from the regular status-quo Republicans, and I frankly always hated how so many Republicans tried to pretend he wasn't. The main difference is that he said the quiet part out loud.
But as far as compassionate conservatives....here's my litmus test question: How do you feel about affirmative action? The support or opposition to the policies is less important than the why of their answer. And the vast majority of Republicans "whys," in my experience, have boiled down to "I don' t understand what white male privilege is."
I get that, I was working at blockbuster when they wanted to throw me in jail if I sold a game to a kid like I was giving them drugs. There is a clear difference between Democrats and Republicans though and only the republicans run on hate for others.
Not really talking about the economic spectrum only or “left” on a global scale. Just what the average conservative who won’t vote trump will tell you.
Usually it’s either one key issue like abortion or guns, a dislike of the more extreme elements of the Dems, or hating that both parties have decided that any sort of real budgeting no longer matters
Most Americans aren't referring to the economy when they mention the Left or the Right. In fact, I would wager that not only are most Americans not referring to that, but that most Americans have never even heard of that. Honestly, I feel like you're taking left-right as an economic spectrum from the Political Compass and not from the traditional terms.
None to me knowledge, but I'm also pro choice too since I help perform abortions I have a vested interest in not going to jail.