28 votes

Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Discussion Thread

If you have seen it, what are your thoughts on it?

38 comments

  1. [10]
    mrnd
    (edited )
    Link
    Feeling very conflicted. There were some fun parts, and some things I really liked, like Rey's and Ben's relationship. Some aesthetic choises were really cool: I always like more occult and dark...

    Feeling very conflicted. There were some fun parts, and some things I really liked, like Rey's and Ben's relationship. Some aesthetic choises were really cool: I always like more occult and dark portrayal of Sith things. Some things I really hated (rey's parentage, that had zero reason to happen).

    Overall, it felt like a collection of things, with absolutely no coherence. I disliked how it betrayed all the Last Jedi's themes, to the point that it needed to "explain" away all the generic nitpicky internet criticisms of the previous movie (luke's "i was wrong", "holdo maneuver", snoke, rey's parentage again). The Last Jedi dealt with some really interesting ideas around Jedi and Sith and how the mistakes of previous generations might be avoided, but this one refused to engage with any of that, and simply had an another ending of the Jedi winning over the Sith: the fundamental conflicts as presented by Last Jedi were left unresolved.

    It lacked confidence as the final film of the series, and was full of generic stuff that wasn't taken to any real conclusions.

    If I'm allowed a "hot take", bringing back J. J. Abrams was definitely a mistake: he had no idea what to do with the ending.

    20 votes
    1. [4]
      Sand
      Link Parent
      I think he was fine as a director, but the movie should have had a different writer.

      I think he was fine as a director, but the movie should have had a different writer.

      2 votes
      1. [3]
        mrbig
        Link Parent
        A powerful guy like definitely have a say on the story even if he is not credited as a screenwriter. He would not accept the job if he did not approved the story. It makes sense to hold him...

        A powerful guy like definitely have a say on the story even if he is not credited as a screenwriter. He would not accept the job if he did not approved the story. It makes sense to hold him accountable for that.

        2 votes
        1. [2]
          Sand
          Link Parent
          He was credited as screenwriter, and I'm sure he would have approved a better story if they had written one.

          He was credited as screenwriter, and I'm sure he would have approved a better story if they had written one.

          3 votes
          1. mrbig
            Link Parent
            I see. So the criticism is even more justified than I thought.

            I see. So the criticism is even more justified than I thought.

            1 vote
    2. NaraVara
      Link Parent
      Just saw it and this sums it up nicely. It felt like a sequence of macguffin hunts strung together with really tiresome levels of fan-service. And it really was tiresome. It felt like any scene...

      Overall, it felt like a collection of things, with absolutely no coherence.

      Just saw it and this sums it up nicely. It felt like a sequence of macguffin hunts strung together with really tiresome levels of fan-service.

      And it really was tiresome. It felt like any scene that wasn't a loud chase sequence was little more than an obnoxiously winking reference to the original trilogy to the point where it completely takes you out of the story. I found it very annoying.

      The overall skeleton of an okay plot is there, but we're so distracted by the constant action scenes, one after another, that very little character development actually happens. And what development does happen is with new characters (like Keri Russel's) instead of anyone we care about. I think rank ordering the films, I'd place this above Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones but below Revenge of the Sith. It's bad.

      I actually think I would have liked it more if I wasn't steeped enough in Star Wars lore to pick up on all the references. It's a fun enough popcorn flick, but what really killed it for me was the sheer volume of nostalgia-wink. Someone who wouldn't have picked up on all of it probably could have just sat back and enjoyed it more.

      2 votes
    3. [4]
      vegai
      Link Parent
      I think the mistake was more the entire concept of making a third trilogy rather than how it was specifically implemented.

      If I'm allowed a "hot take", bringing back J. J. Abrams was definitely a mistake: he had no idea what to do with the ending.

      I think the mistake was more the entire concept of making a third trilogy rather than how it was specifically implemented.

      1 vote
      1. mrnd
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        That's fair! But to me personally, TLJ was a really good movie, and if a smart director had continued on the path laid by it, we could have had a great trilogy that justified itself.

        That's fair!

        But to me personally, TLJ was a really good movie, and if a smart director had continued on the path laid by it, we could have had a great trilogy that justified itself.

        4 votes
      2. [2]
        stromm
        Link Parent
        Back in the 70's on many TV interviews, Lucas made a point of stating that his vision is to do three trilogies.

        Back in the 70's on many TV interviews, Lucas made a point of stating that his vision is to do three trilogies.

        1. Sand
          Link Parent
          Then he realized that wasn't possible, so they made Return of the Jedi instead and threw most of his vision out the window. A third trilogy wasn't possible without undoing the events of RotJ.

          Then he realized that wasn't possible, so they made Return of the Jedi instead and threw most of his vision out the window. A third trilogy wasn't possible without undoing the events of RotJ.

          2 votes
  2. guy
    Link
    In the final scene where Ren "force-heals" Rey, delivers one line, and then dies himself, I was really hoping Rey would return the favor and force-heal Ren, only to die immediately herself,...

    In the final scene where Ren "force-heals" Rey, delivers one line, and then dies himself, I was really hoping Rey would return the favor and force-heal Ren, only to die immediately herself, kicking off a never-ending cycle of each of them resurrecting the other.

    20 votes
  3. [2]
    JXM
    Link
    That was...very bad. So many plot choices that were completely unnecessary or completely undermined by the very next scene. SPOILERS Killing Chewbacca only to reveal that he’s alive in the very...

    That was...very bad. So many plot choices that were completely unnecessary or completely undermined by the very next scene.

    SPOILERS Killing Chewbacca only to reveal that he’s alive in the very next scene serves no purpose. Rey feels bad for a single scene and then they know Chewy is alive so it’s completely undermined.

    And having Rey be the granddaughter of Palpatine was...bizarre. It even makes the rest of the movies less good because it totally undoes the premise of the original Star Wars trilogy. It makes the universe so small. There’s basically two families that matter.

    And Rey’s last scene on Tatooine and her last line were...bad. It felt like such a bad fan service moment.

    For context, Star Wars doesn’t some sort of special place in my heart.

    15 votes
    1. NaraVara
      Link Parent
      I see a lot of "comic book" continuity logic creeping in here. There is the desire to create tension but also not have any meaningful changes that might constrain what the next writer in the...

      I see a lot of "comic book" continuity logic creeping in here. There is the desire to create tension but also not have any meaningful changes that might constrain what the next writer in the series can do. The only way around that is to just have one writer to shepherd the thing for a long stretch of time, like how Claremont turned the X-Men into a long-running soap opera.

      1 vote
  4. hungariantoast
    Link
    I just got back from seeing the movie so all of it is still fresh for me. Honestly, I liked it, quite a bit. There weren't any scenes that stood out in a bad way or made me question things like...

    I just got back from seeing the movie so all of it is still fresh for me.

    Honestly, I liked it, quite a bit. There weren't any scenes that stood out in a bad way or made me question things like there were in the Last Jedi (which I also enjoyed, for what it's worth).

    This was just a good film, I thought. I felt satisfied with how it tied up this sequel trilogy.

    Spoilers

    The thing I actually loved most about the film, weirdly enough, was the lightsaber duel between Luke and Leia with their young CGI selves. I just thought that was the neatest thing. Could it have looked better? Maybe. But seeing their CGI characters briefly like that, in a scene that was relatively dark, I was more than happy with the quality of it and it didn't bring me out of the film at all. I absolutely love that scenes like that are becoming more and more possible to pull off. It makes me excited for the future of movies (and Star Wars as a whole).

    So yeah, I enjoyed this movie for what it was and as an ending to this trilogy.

    As for the entire sequel trilogy though, I have come to dislike it over time.

    Let's face it, the Last Jedi could have been better, the Force Awakens could have been more original, and this movie was not perfect either.

    Overall, to me, Star Wars is forever going to be a series of mistakes. The entire series suffers from major blunders here and there. By far the best content of the universe (in my opinion) are the shows, not the movies. That's a problem.

    And now the saga is over. Obviously this isn't the end of Star Wars, but I have no doubt that Star Wars will forever in my thoughts be marked as a series plagued with issues. Unimaginable potential, success, and magnitude, but with the heights to which the series soared, the further it fell in its worst moments. With its monetization and corporatization by Disney, a background evil I could never forget, even in the theater seat, Star Wars for me is just... marred.

    I love it for what it could have been, I hate it for what it is, and that makes me hate certain parts of the world we live in.


    I can only hope, decades from now, perhaps Disney won't exist. Perhaps justice and fairness will prevail in our world and something as gargantuan and influential as Star Wars will be free to tweak and change, perhaps even in the public domain. Then, someone, far detached from the whims of investors or executives, a goddamn true artist beholden to only their own vision, will bring Star Wars back. The technology will surely exist, to revive, almost perfectly, the performances of the cast, only changed, better, what it should have been.

    I'm not optimistic.


    Whew. Sorry for getting weird and (badly) poetic, this is just quite literally the first time I've thought about all of this and so here it is, for all to read. Cheers.

    12 votes
  5. [3]
    Sand
    (edited )
    Link
    What even was the point of Jannah? Or General Pryde? Why didn't they just use Hux? Were they that desperate to flanderize his character even further? None of the First Order stuff here makes any...

    What even was the point of Jannah? Or General Pryde? Why didn't they just use Hux? Were they that desperate to flanderize his character even further? None of the First Order stuff here makes any sense. The Final Order? Was there a Second and Third Order we didn't hear about? I suppose there are just two Orders. Couldn't they have given some explanation for how Palpatine built an entire Empire in complete secret?

    "My boy, I made Snoke"

    doesn't elaborate any further

    Even his lair is so dark you can't make anything out. I know some things should remain mysterious, but Rey had an entire fight with the Emperor's guards and I don't even know what they look like. I believe that was supposed to be a parallel to the throne room battle in The Last Jedi, since both scenes had six guards. Ben's fight with the six Knights of Ren was also very underwhelming. I was expecting one of the knights to say something along the lines of "You are no longer our master. Soon we will serve a new Ren", and for Ben to actually struggle. Instead, there's less emotion than in his battle with a bunch of random guards, and he easily beats his apparent equals like they're basic Level 3 video game enemies.

    Edit: Actually there were 8 or 9 guards in The Last Jedi. Maybe it wasn't meant to be a parallel.

    9 votes
    1. [2]
      seizethegoddamngap
      Link Parent
      Why would the Emperor need to elaborate further? They showed some Snoke-clones in a vat. He survived a never ending fall down a planet lengthed tunnel, it's not that outrageous to believe he can...

      Why would the Emperor need to elaborate further? They showed some Snoke-clones in a vat. He survived a never ending fall down a planet lengthed tunnel, it's not that outrageous to believe he can use the Dark Side to Avatar one of the clones.

      I was expecting one of the knights to say something along the lines of "You are no longer our master. Soon we will serve a new Ren", and for Ben to actually struggle.

      Oh man, that would be some hamfisted cringe. Why do you need these plot points fed to you?

      4 votes
      1. Sand
        Link Parent
        Because showing a bunch of Snoke-clones in a vat raises more questions than it answers. Why did Palpatine create Snoke? Did Snoke know Palpatine created him? Was Snoke a clone of someone else? I...

        Why would the Emperor need to elaborate further?

        Because showing a bunch of Snoke-clones in a vat raises more questions than it answers. Why did Palpatine create Snoke? Did Snoke know Palpatine created him? Was Snoke a clone of someone else? I was really just nitpicking, but it's yet another stupid detail that was pointless to show. And no, Palpatine died on the death star, he just came back to life.

        Why do you need these plot points fed to you?

        I didn't need that specifically, I just wanted something more than an action scene without consequences.

        7 votes
  6. vegai
    (edited )
    Link
    Like in the previous post-Lucas episodes, combat scenes were dreadfully mediocre and the actor scenes were pretty good. Every scene with Adam Driver worked. Almost every scene without him failed...

    Like in the previous post-Lucas episodes, combat scenes were dreadfully mediocre and the actor scenes were pretty good. Every scene with Adam Driver worked. Almost every scene without him failed to work.

    But perhaps a 40-year old man who's slightly bent on elitism wasn't the target audience, even if they tried to fish us for nostalgy. The movie probably works very well for 12-year olds.

    edit But when I think about it... showing images of extreme violence (which is anything that leads to a death) with absolutely no consequence to anyone? When people die in a movie like this, nobody feels anything: not the character who dies, not anyone close to them, and not the audience. We see individuals die on all sides, villages massacred and whole planets destroyed and nobody cares because there's no time to care, we need to get to the next scene. "That's a real sick thing" as David Lynch would say.

    The only few scenes where the movie tries to make people care about deaths are reversed and/or promptly forgotten.

    8 votes
  7. [2]
    Muffin
    Link
    I was expecting a complete mess, given how disjointed the trilogy has been. I think they wrapped up what they had going on pretty nicely. I feel like if I keep thinking about the plot, I'll sour...

    I was expecting a complete mess, given how disjointed the trilogy has been. I think they wrapped up what they had going on pretty nicely. I feel like if I keep thinking about the plot, I'll sour on the film for sure.

    I was hoping for more excellent visuals like in TLJ, but at least the movie was better. The back-to-back ghost scenes were a.. choice I guess.

    6 votes
    1. Grzmot
      Link Parent
      So a classic "Don't think about it or you won't enjoy it" big budget blockbuster?

      So a classic "Don't think about it or you won't enjoy it" big budget blockbuster?

      6 votes
  8. moocow1452
    Link
    There are definitely bits I rolled my eyes at, and bits where I was enjoying the spectacle, but if nothing else, we are free again and the episodic Star Wars movies can be a thing of the past...

    There are definitely bits I rolled my eyes at, and bits where I was enjoying the spectacle, but if nothing else, we are free again and the episodic Star Wars movies can be a thing of the past again. Experimental or paint by number adventures won't have the expectations of new editions to the mainline canon, and we don't have to be wired into this thing as a continuation of the thing we grew up with. If we have another episode of the Skywalker Saga, it will be too soon, IMO.

    4 votes
  9. HoolaBoola
    Link
    I think it was full of clichés and expected twists. Nothing surprising. Well, except the whole thing with Palpatine, which I have mixed feelings about. Definitely not unexpected to learn Rey's...

    I think it was full of clichés and expected twists. Nothing surprising. Well, except the whole thing with Palpatine, which I have mixed feelings about. Definitely not unexpected to learn Rey's parentage.

    Visually I quite liked the movie, especially the huge fleet of destroyers on Exogol. If not for its bad plot, it could've been a good movie. Nevertheless, I think it wrapped up the trilogy ok, especially after what I consider the worst of the three, the Last Jedi.

    3 votes
  10. [4]
    babypuncher
    Link
    Things I liked -Rey is a Palpatine instead of a Skywalker. -Ben Solo came home to Jesus. It’s the only character arc that actually spans the new trilogy. -Special effects and action sequences are...

    Things I liked

    -Rey is a Palpatine instead of a Skywalker.

    -Ben Solo came home to Jesus. It’s the only character arc that actually spans the new trilogy.

    -Special effects and action sequences are top notch, as usual.

    -Rey accidentally killed Chewie. Yay, actions actually have consequences!

    Things I didn’t like:

    -Chewie didn’t actually die. I guess that would have been too brave for JJ.

    -Lando felt like a pointless serving of memberberries.

    -The plot was messy and convoluted, probably because they tried to squeeze a whole trilogy of story beats into it. What a shame they didn’t spend the last two movies properly setting the stage for this.

    -Sheev’s magical return with no explanation or even a hint of foreshadowing in the previous films. And it breaks the Rule of Two.

    -Literally hundreds of Death Stars, because fuck you.

    -Poe and Finn still don’t have any identifiable character arcs. At least Poe got a tiny bit of backstory.

    6/10, still better than the prequels. This cements The Last Jedi as the best of the sequels in my book.

    My final rankings for all the movies in the “Skywalker Saga”:

    1. ESB (9/10)
    2. TLJ (8/10)
    3. ANH (8/10)
    4. RotJ (7/10)
    5. TFA (7/10)
    6. RoS (6/10)
    7. RotS (5/10)
    8. AotC (3/10)
    9. TPM (3/10)
    3 votes
    1. [3]
      SleepyGary
      Link Parent
      Based on his line to Jannah in the end it sounds like they are setting up another spin off series/film starring the two.

      Lando felt like a pointless serving of memberberries.

      Based on his line to Jannah in the end it sounds like they are setting up another spin off series/film starring the two.

      1. Sand
        Link Parent
        Sounds more like a leftover of the idea that Jannah is his long-lost daughter.

        Sounds more like a leftover of the idea that Jannah is his long-lost daughter.

      2. babypuncher
        Link Parent
        If they have to keep digging up Lando I'd rather they go with the Donald Glover version.

        If they have to keep digging up Lando I'd rather they go with the Donald Glover version.

  11. krg
    Link
    Lame as fuck, really. Frantic pacing, dumb story choices, more fan service...uggh. I would've rather had Rian Johnson complete his vision than this. At least SOME semblance of continuity...

    Lame as fuck, really.

    Frantic pacing, dumb story choices, more fan service...uggh.

    I would've rather had Rian Johnson complete his vision than this. At least SOME semblance of continuity...

    3 votes
  12. cstby
    Link
    I feared it would be terrible, and I was pleasantly surprised that it was alright. Definitely not my favorite Star Wars film, but is successfully accomplished the difficult task of concluding the...

    I feared it would be terrible, and I was pleasantly surprised that it was alright. Definitely not my favorite Star Wars film, but is successfully accomplished the difficult task of concluding the Skywalker saga. It opens the door for more storytelling, which might add more richness to the film over time.

    I hope that Disney doesn't rush into another trilogy. The Mandalorian has been awesome, and I'm convinced that boyh the Obi-Wan series and Clone Wars season 7 will be great as well. Eventually, a new great trilogy-worthy will emege; there's no need to rush it.

    2 votes
  13. Weldawadyathink
    Link
    I just got out of the theater. I was expecting almost nothing, and I thought it was pretty good. There were a handful of plot contrivences, but not the amount I expected after 8. I am usually...

    I just got out of the theater. I was expecting almost nothing, and I thought it was pretty good. There were a handful of plot contrivences, but not the amount I expected after 8. I am usually willing to forgive movies a few plot holes if they aren't too major.

    The most interesting part of this movie is that it pretty much continued from 7, not 8 (although I haven't seen either in a good while, so I may be forgetting some things). As far as I am concerned, if I ever decide to marathon star wars again, I will just skip 8 entirely.

    2 votes
  14. bleem
    Link
    Honestly, I'm not sure. I left the theater last night feeling disappointed, but I have tickets for another showing in like 8 hours (thank goodness regal unlimited), I'll see what I think then....

    Honestly, I'm not sure. I left the theater last night feeling disappointed, but I have tickets for another showing in like 8 hours (thank goodness regal unlimited), I'll see what I think then.

    edit1: I laughed way too hard when they pulled out prequel memes

    2 votes
  15. [3]
    stromm
    Link
    No spoilers, but man, The Rise of Skywalker is a fucking awesome movie. I think for us who saw the original trilogy back in the day, it's an emotional ride too. 43 years of a single story-line,...

    No spoilers, but man, The Rise of Skywalker is a fucking awesome movie.

    I think for us who saw the original trilogy back in the day, it's an emotional ride too.  43 years of a single story-line, just... done. That's weird. 

    Such amazing visuals, incredible choreography and some actual plot twists. 

    It's 100 times better than the last two movies, and 1000 times better than episodes 1-3. I have haven't decided if it's better than Empire Strikes Back, but my first impression is yes.

    2 votes
    1. [2]
      Loire
      Link Parent
      I would suggest letting the "just seen it" glow to wear off before making that extremely hot take.

      I have haven't decided if it's better than Empire Strikes Back, but my first impression is yes.

      I would suggest letting the "just seen it" glow to wear off before making that extremely hot take.

      6 votes
      1. stromm
        Link Parent
        I'm still feeling the same. I guess I didn't expect anything, either way. I just took it for what it is. No movie will ever live up to my expectations, something I learned decades ago. So to not...

        I'm still feeling the same.

        I guess I didn't expect anything, either way. I just took it for what it is. No movie will ever live up to my expectations, something I learned decades ago. So to not hate all of them, I just accept them as they are.

        1 vote
  16. Mandelmannen
    Link
    Bit disappointing on the visual side, especially after The last jedi (We get it J.J. you like lens flares, please stop) The story was decent but they played it safe to a pretty annoying degree....

    Bit disappointing on the visual side, especially after The last jedi (We get it J.J. you like lens flares, please stop)

    The story was decent but they played it safe to a pretty annoying degree.
    Would have been interesting to see either Kylo or Rey going gray instead of good or bad but nuance isn't safe. And even though they played it safe on the no nuance between good and bad, it still could have been interesting to see Kylo become the big bad but that would mean the previous big bad actually died before a standard dramatic curve suggest the big bad should die and that isn't safe so Snoke was never the big bad at all, he was just a puppet.
    Rey's family not being special... unsafe, insert safe 'big bad being the parent (or in this case granddaddy) to the protagonist' plot point.

    The thing that really made me annoyed though was the action or rather the scenes with tension. Stormtroopers still having the aim of handicapable toddlers (except the one who shot Poe but that had absolutely no impact on anything, he didn't really seem to mind it after a second or two)
    The knights of Ren being absolutely useless... That was actually a serious bummer for me, I thought they looked pretty cool, turns out they were just Kylos back up dancers.
    The fight and the build up to the fight between Sidious and Rey was probably the least interesting conflict in Star Wars history, they never really met before, Sidious didn't really give a shit about Rey, Rey seemed more challenged by solving the ol' Star Wars episode 6 puzzle 'how to kill the Sith without becoming the sith' (a conundrum that seems pretty weaksauce after you seen the jedi slaughter a shit ton of other people without turning sith) than she was by Palpatine's force lightning.
    The attack on the death star ships was also pretty underwhelming, nothing takes the tension away from a bunch of super guns like having the battle under circumstances where the super guns can't be used. A bit of a nit pick on that battle, if the command destroyer had tilted a bit when the rebels did a land invasion style attack on it... I'm not saying doing a land invasion style attack on a spaceship is a bad idea, I think Poe said that before they did it... I'm just saying it's a good thing the baddies didn't know spaceships can tilt.

    Things I liked.
    Leia being a jedi, pretty cool.
    Rey being a Palpatine, I mean it's dumb, sort of weird when you picture someone having sex with Darth scrotum face. And it was really an anti-climactic way to conclude Rey's story arc but Palpatine is cool, I like Palpatine, all nine movies are basically about Palpatines shenanigans now... and I don't really mind. Palpatine is pretty cool, not Vader cool but... cool.
    Poe doing the light jumps to escape in the beginning was pretty toight...
    Finn seeming to be force sensitive was nice.
    I don't know, call me a big softie but I thought Kylo going full Ben was kinda neat and seeing Han Solo again was also neat.

    It was a decent movie but someone should seriously stop J.J. from using beloved franchises as an excuse to do lens flare fetish porn.

    2 votes
  17. Leonidas
    Link
    Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I actually enjoyed the movie a lot! There were some moments which reminded me of a horror movie more than anything else, especially the reveal of Palpatine at...

    Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I actually enjoyed the movie a lot! There were some moments which reminded me of a horror movie more than anything else, especially the reveal of Palpatine at the beginning and Rey's fight with her dark self in the navigator chamber. I got emotional when Rey woke up and heard the voices of previous Jedi urging her on; it was such a climactic scene. There were a few things I was wondering, such as the story of Rey's parents and Palpatine's relationship with them, and where she managed to find a gold Jedi guardian lightsaber of all things. However, on the whole, I felt like this movie did a good job of tying up loose ends and concluding the Star Wars saga.

    1 vote
  18. [3]
    SantalBlush
    Link
    I'm not going to see it. Should I join the "love it" side, or the "hate it" side?

    I'm not going to see it. Should I join the "love it" side, or the "hate it" side?

    1 vote
    1. moocow1452
      Link Parent
      Watch a bunch of Shouty YouTubers and take the opinions of the loudest ones, then put people on blast in the comment section of your favorite social media platform.

      Watch a bunch of Shouty YouTubers and take the opinions of the loudest ones, then put people on blast in the comment section of your favorite social media platform.

      4 votes