30 votes

Taylor Swift named as Time's Person of the Year - 2023

43 comments

  1. [3]
    phoenixrises
    Link
    Honestly not too surprising, with the year long news of the Eras Tour and now Travis Kelce, Midnights release this year and 2 (or 3) Taylor's version releases. Also Spotify's most listened to...

    Honestly not too surprising, with the year long news of the Eras Tour and now Travis Kelce, Midnights release this year and 2 (or 3) Taylor's version releases. Also Spotify's most listened to artist this year, it really has been the year of Taylor!

    10 votes
    1. [2]
      Carrow
      Link Parent
      Midnights released Oct. 21 2022, over a year ago if you can believe it. Your point still stands. I mean, I just became a fan myself this year after listening to Midnights.

      Midnights released Oct. 21 2022, over a year ago if you can believe it. Your point still stands. I mean, I just became a fan myself this year after listening to Midnights.

      2 votes
      1. phoenixrises
        Link Parent
        I went to the Eras tour in NJ myself and it feels so long ago! Time is such a weird thing lol.

        I went to the Eras tour in NJ myself and it feels so long ago! Time is such a weird thing lol.

        2 votes
  2. [19]
    lou
    Link
    This is off-topic, but can someone explain Taylor Swift's music to me? I have been listening to her songs trying to understand what this is all about, and, maybe I'm too old for this, but to me,...

    This is off-topic, but can someone explain Taylor Swift's music to me? I have been listening to her songs trying to understand what this is all about, and, maybe I'm too old for this, but to me, every song sounds like "ultra generic pop music for 2000s/2010s FM white people radio". Am I missing something?

    6 votes
    1. [2]
      kfwyre
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Other people have covered other aspects of Taylor Swift, but you specifically asked about her music. You’re right in that it’s pretty standard pop music, so it won’t change any minds on that front...
      • Exemplary

      Other people have covered other aspects of Taylor Swift, but you specifically asked about her music.

      You’re right in that it’s pretty standard pop music, so it won’t change any minds on that front for people who don’t like the genre as a whole, but, on the wide playing field of pop music, Swift stands high above a lot of other artists (maybe even most?).

      For one, she’s a legitimately talented and dedicated songwriter. She started professionally writing music at the age of 14, and throughout her subsequent teenage years she was able to write songs that were simultaneously evocative of youth while also giving insights that felt wise beyond her years. Before she was 20, she wrote three standout albums — each better than the last. It’s through this growth that she honed her talents in pop songwriting and leveraged those to become a complete cultural powerhouse in her twenties (with four more albums) which is what has led her to be the absolute standout star she is today (another three albums since, with additional re-recordings of her entire back catalog). There are decades of skill-building behind her current success.

      She can write a hook like nobody’s business, but her songs have more panache than a lot of pop music too. They’re often narrative-driven. They focus on specific memories and feelings that feel lived. They inhabit interesting perspectives and give thoughtful observations. She brought some of these country music tropes into her pop songwriting, and I think her artful use of both helped her escape some of the limitations of both genres.

      A lot of other pop music tries to go abstract with its feelings as a way of having broad appeal. Those songs are almost like musical horoscopes that are intentionally vague so anyone can project their own experiences onto them and still find them resonant. Swift does the opposite. She sings with precision and clarity about specific, personal things that somehow manage to still feel universal to listeners.

      She’s also a thoroughly competent wordsmith. Her writing is often thoughtful, sometimes outright clever. She’s really good with word economy, evoking myriad feelings and images in a few short lines. Her songs often have “turns” where there’s a change of perspective or something that changes the mood or the chorus that gives an interesting texture to an otherwise predictable songwriting structure.

      Pop music is often criticized for feeling soulless and produced. Swift’s music, meanwhile, has an indelibly human touch. The emotional depth and range of her work is deeper and richer than nearly all other top 40 stuff out there.

      Musically, she’s really great with melody and flow — almost all of her songs have an eminently singable quality. Even when she’s not going for rich emotional depth, she still lands a song just plain sounds good.

      Furthermore, and this is probably the most important aspect of her talent: she’s able to do this again and again. She’s got lighting in a bottle and can make it strike exactly where she wants, over and over. She has 100+ different songs across her entire discography, and while not every one shines brightly, she hits far more than she misses. Most other artists would be astoundingly lucky if they could be as prolific and consistent as her.

      Swift’s music is liked, ultimately, because she’s exceptionally skilled at making pop music. She started her career with an abundance of talent and has, over two decades, honed her skills and mastered her craft. I’m someone who listens almost exclusively to pop music. This means that I listen to (and even genuinely like) a lot of stuff that is, uh… pretty bad.

      Swift isn’t pretty bad. She’s really, really good.

      14 votes
      1. lou
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        Thanks for answering this question without making a thousand assumptions about my inner thoughts and evil agendas. It is sometimes difficult to find real answers when you are talking about...

        Thanks for answering this question without making a thousand assumptions about my inner thoughts and evil agendas. It is sometimes difficult to find real answers when you are talking about something that evokes deep emotions in people.

        I can certainly appreciate the fact that an artist has a history that is meaningful to their fans, and that's not something I can really experience just by watching music videos on YouTube. Can I really appreciate Lebron James just by watching a few games in 2023? I don't think so.

        I also understand the need to appreciate more the lyrics instead of simply evaluating melodies and singing, as you describe Taylor's sophisticated approach to lyrics that is worth praise.

        I'm pretty sure any person in the world can readily appreciate some artists without even speaking the language or having a personal connection with the artists history. That doesn't seem to be the case here, which is why merely listening to the songs without the context seem to create a very different impression than that of long time fans.

        I like that Taylor Swift contemplates an audience that appreciates a kind of old-fashioned(?) romanticism that doesn't seem very present in an ultra sexualized and fetishized cultural zeitgeist. Nothing against all the jiggling butts (lol), but variety is a good thing.

        2 votes
    2. [4]
      wervenyt
      Link Parent
      Nope. Taylor Swift excels at incorporating trends into her music. Otherwise, this is just what celebrity looks like these days. Her songs are better-crafted than most other music written to be...

      Nope. Taylor Swift excels at incorporating trends into her music. Otherwise, this is just what celebrity looks like these days. Her songs are better-crafted than most other music written to be digestible, but as far as I can tell, this is a cult of personality built on a woman whose life's work has been obscuring herself so that drama doesn't touch her brand.

      Edit: I did forget to mention that she's been rerecording her breakthrough albums for money/spite reasons, and that's seen as innovative apparently.

      5 votes
      1. [3]
        phoenixrises
        Link Parent
        ??? Is this just a super sarcastic post and I'm too tired and missed something?

        a woman whose life's work has been obscuring herself so that drama doesn't touch her brand.

        ??? Is this just a super sarcastic post and I'm too tired and missed something?

        3 votes
        1. [2]
          wervenyt
          Link Parent
          No, I'm serious. We know almost nothing about her except through her music, despite her intense media presence, relative to other superstars. I hold a huge amount of respect for her talents in...

          No, I'm serious. We know almost nothing about her except through her music, despite her intense media presence, relative to other superstars. I hold a huge amount of respect for her talents in maneuvering through the media.

          1. phoenixrises
            Link Parent
            If you have time you should watch Miss Americana on Netflix, it definitely hasn't been like this her whole career. Her whole Reputation album basically talks about how media drama and how she...

            If you have time you should watch Miss Americana on Netflix, it definitely hasn't been like this her whole career. Her whole Reputation album basically talks about how media drama and how she leaned into that in that era, basically saying "if the media calls me a snake I'm gonna own it." Even the VMA thing way back over 10 years ago was drama.

            Her trying to keep her personal life out of the media and disappearing for a couple of years was definitely more recent.

            4 votes
    3. [5]
      phoenixrises
      Link Parent
      I mean... it's not like you need to like her music lol. Maybe it's just not for you? For me it's her range and variety though, I personally love Folklore/Evermore and Midnights, and Red and 1984...

      I mean... it's not like you need to like her music lol. Maybe it's just not for you? For me it's her range and variety though, I personally love Folklore/Evermore and Midnights, and Red and 1984 are just completely different sounds that I also enjoy.

      Also Taylor is the most popular pop artist at the moment and has been relatively at the top for the last 10 years or so, so it kinda tracks that she sounds like pop music on the radio, I can't count the amount of times I've listened to Blank Space randomly on FM radio growing up.

      4 votes
      1. [4]
        lou
        Link Parent
        Well yeah, of course I don't have to like Taylor Swift, but every once in a a while I'll listen to a popular artist just to know what everyone's talking about. For example, I recently listened to...

        Well yeah, of course I don't have to like Taylor Swift, but every once in a a while I'll listen to a popular artist just to know what everyone's talking about. For example, I recently listened to Katy Perry for the same reason. I actually liked some of her songs. Like most people, I tend to like pop songs. So there was a chance that I would enjoy Taylor Swift as well.

        1. [3]
          phoenixrises
          Link Parent
          That's cool, I try to do that too. I feel like If I don't get it though I just kinda don't get it. More power to the fans that enjoy it though.

          That's cool, I try to do that too. I feel like If I don't get it though I just kinda don't get it. More power to the fans that enjoy it though.

          1. [2]
            lou
            Link Parent
            I will look for the specific songs that you mentioned. I'm not in a journey to become a fan, but IDK, she's pretty cute. A lot of my internet usage is driven by cuteness :P

            I will look for the specific songs that you mentioned. I'm not in a journey to become a fan, but IDK, she's pretty cute. A lot of my internet usage is driven by cuteness :P

            1. phoenixrises
              Link Parent
              Oh I mentioned albums actually! For me I enjoy specific albums for specific moods. My personal favorite song is Back to December though. If you want something more "pop", Blank Space is probably...

              Oh I mentioned albums actually! For me I enjoy specific albums for specific moods.

              My personal favorite song is Back to December though. If you want something more "pop", Blank Space is probably one of her biggest songs(citation needed). I like the entire Folklore/Evermore albums as a whole because they're very evocative of fairy tale whimsy and melodrama. Summer is over but Cruel Summer for a good summer bop. Lover for that romantic feel.

              Always love talking about my favorite music in general, feel free to ask me anything about it!

              2 votes
    4. [7]
      updawg
      Link Parent
      I see this question asked every time her name comes up. It gets tiring. People really relate to her music in a way that they don't with a lot of other artists. Many singers sing about the emotions...

      I see this question asked every time her name comes up. It gets tiring. People really relate to her music in a way that they don't with a lot of other artists. Many singers sing about the emotions we all feel, but a lot of people feel her songs capture the way they feel, rather than just being emotional. A lot of other artists' songs are either just generically emotional or more esoteric, whereas her songs are more often about specific relationships and how she was hurt, which feels much more personal and relatable, especially to a 15-year-old girl. Her popularity arose out of that relatability. It takes a special talent to be so relatable to so many people while also feeling so personal and vulnerable.

      That plus a good publicist turned her into what she is now.

      3 votes
      1. [6]
        lou
        Link Parent
        I'm sorry this is a tiring question for you. That is the first time I ask this question, so it is not tiring for me. Thank you for answering it.

        I'm sorry this is a tiring question for you. That is the first time I ask this question, so it is not tiring for me. Thank you for answering it.

        8 votes
        1. [5]
          updawg
          Link Parent
          It's just tiring because it's a common complaint about something that obviously millions of people find to be unique in some way and there have been countless discussions about it that a simple...

          It's just tiring because it's a common complaint about something that obviously millions of people find to be unique in some way and there have been countless discussions about it that a simple search will reveal. Also, of course her music sounds generic; everybody has been trying to copy her.

          1. [4]
            lou
            Link Parent
            That is not a discussion I am a part of, I simply heard a few songs and arrived at conclusions while being completely unaware that this is a common trope. I am not in the United States so I didn't...

            That is not a discussion I am a part of, I simply heard a few songs and arrived at conclusions while being completely unaware that this is a common trope. I am not in the United States so I didn't grow up listening to these songs on the radio, nor do I know any Taylor Swift fan in real life.

            I am sorry for repeating something that reinforces social dynamics that are completely foreign to me! It was certainly not my intention to get tangled into a charged dispute.

            8 votes
            1. [3]
              updawg
              Link Parent
              Nah, it's not a charged dispute. It's just something that keeps coming up as more people finally decide to check out her music. I'm not even a fan of hers, I just keep seeing it on here.

              Nah, it's not a charged dispute. It's just something that keeps coming up as more people finally decide to check out her music. I'm not even a fan of hers, I just keep seeing it on here.

              1. [2]
                lou
                (edited )
                Link Parent
                So... I have searched through the entire thread now. I am seeing a lot of criticism, but it seems that mine was the first comment to ask about the actual music. Which is interesting, given that...

                So... I have searched through the entire thread now. I am seeing a lot of criticism, but it seems that mine was the first comment to ask about the actual music. Which is interesting, given that this is a post about a pop singer. It seems that other criticisms are really about fandom, celebrity culture, etc. Not music. So I can only assume that the reason why my comment was tiresome is a consequence of social dynamics expressed in other posts, possibly other forums, rather than this own.

                2 votes
                1. updawg
                  Link Parent
                  Yes, I was referring to it coming up anytime there are posts about her.

                  Yes, I was referring to it coming up anytime there are posts about her.

  3. [21]
    EnigmaNL
    Link
    What are the criteria for person of the year? Surely there must be someone that made a bigger contribution to society than a pop star...

    What are the criteria for person of the year? Surely there must be someone that made a bigger contribution to society than a pop star...

    13 votes
    1. [2]
      shadow
      Link Parent
      That's the thing, the criteria has nothing to do with furthering humanity or anything like that. It's essentially the most talked about person and somebody who will be talked about in the future...

      That's the thing, the criteria has nothing to do with furthering humanity or anything like that.
      It's essentially the most talked about person and somebody who will be talked about in the future (presumably in the anglosphere).

      https://time.com/3626016/person-of-the-year-faq/

      39 votes
      1. EnigmaNL
        Link Parent
        That explains a lot, thanks.

        That explains a lot, thanks.

        4 votes
    2. [16]
      MimicSquid
      Link Parent
      Yes, she's nothing more than a pop star. Feel satisfaction with your thought-terminating cliché, and move on to the next news article.

      Yes, she's nothing more than a pop star. Feel satisfaction with your thought-terminating cliché, and move on to the next news article.

      13 votes
      1. [15]
        EnigmaNL
        Link Parent
        What are those links supposed to demonstrate?

        What are those links supposed to demonstrate?

        15 votes
        1. [2]
          JoshuaJ
          Link Parent
          I mean, it's very hard to argue with how impactful she has been this year across rights for musicians owning their own stuff, insane performance in music streams and album sales. A record breaking...

          I mean, it's very hard to argue with how impactful she has been this year across rights for musicians owning their own stuff, insane performance in music streams and album sales. A record breaking tour.

          Like it's not hyperbole she's had the biggest and best year of maybe any entertainer (not just musicians but every kind of performer) ever.

          Two snippets that show her impact:

          Her concert recently was so highly attended that it caused a small earthquake

          And the economic impact of her tour visiting each state that she visited (with people buying stuff and staying hotels etc. was >5 billion dollars.

          11 votes
          1. EnigmaNL
            Link Parent
            That's pretty neat. I guess I misunderstand what the person of the year thing is about.

            That's pretty neat.

            I guess I misunderstand what the person of the year thing is about.

            8 votes
        2. [12]
          MimicSquid
          Link Parent
          That she has a personal net worth of near a billion dollars built on her own efforts, that she's business-minded and canny enough to be able to reclaim her discography, and that she's socially...

          That she has a personal net worth of near a billion dollars built on her own efforts, that she's business-minded and canny enough to be able to reclaim her discography, and that she's socially influential enough to get twenty five thousand additional people in the US to sign up to vote.

          If she wasn't a pop star or a woman, would you be dismissing her the way you are? If she had given away a flamethrower and had different genitals, perhaps there'd be fewer questions regarding whether she could be considered person of the year?

          1 vote
          1. [2]
            EnigmaNL
            Link Parent
            So she's rich and successful. Good for her. All I did was ask a genuine question, and now you're making me into a sexist? Come on now. I always thought the person of the year was somebody who made...
            • Exemplary

            That she has a personal net worth of near a billion dollars built on her own efforts, that she's business-minded and canny enough to be able to reclaim her discography, and that she's socially influential enough to get twenty five thousand additional people in the US to sign up to vote.

            So she's rich and successful. Good for her.

            If she wasn't a pop star or a woman, would you be dismissing her the way you are? If she had given away a flamethrower and had different genitals, perhaps there'd be fewer questions regarding whether she could be considered person of the year?

            All I did was ask a genuine question, and now you're making me into a sexist? Come on now.

            I always thought the person of the year was somebody who made a genuine contribution to society. Taylor Swift is just a rich pop star, like many others. I truly don't get it.

            Why is it not Rihanna, who's even richer and more successful than Taylor Swift?

            35 votes
            1. phoenixrises
              Link Parent
              I think that's where the confusion is, but other people have already explained it. Despite everything that's happened this year I do think that TSwift has been in the headlines basically every...

              I always thought the person of the year was somebody who made a genuine contribution to society.

              I think that's where the confusion is, but other people have already explained it. Despite everything that's happened this year I do think that TSwift has been in the headlines basically every other week or so, which is why I think this Person of the Year thing makes sense. And basically almost all of the headlines were positive which is kinda nice too.

              Rihanna hasn't been talked about in a while besides the Super Bowl.

              10 votes
          2. Trobador
            Link Parent
            I feel like you're making massive jumps in logic here.

            If she had given away a flamethrower and had different genitals, perhaps there'd be fewer questions regarding whether she could be considered person of the year?

            I feel like you're making massive jumps in logic here.

            12 votes
          3. [8]
            Lucid
            Link Parent
            Is anybody who thinks Taylor Swift is undeserving of person of the year a sexist? Am I supposed to like the Kardashians now too?

            Is anybody who thinks Taylor Swift is undeserving of person of the year a sexist?

            Am I supposed to like the Kardashians now too?

            3 votes
            1. [2]
              arch
              Link Parent
              The reason people are taking issue with your questions likely isn't that you're saying Taylor Swift is undeserving of person of the year. It's because you're seemingly taking issue with Taylor...

              Is anybody who thinks Taylor Swift is undeserving of person of the year a sexist?

              Am I supposed to like the Kardashians now too?

              The reason people are taking issue with your questions likely isn't that you're saying Taylor Swift is undeserving of person of the year. It's because you're seemingly taking issue with Taylor Swift while having either no understanding of the history of Time Person of the Year or you're just not acknowledging any of the other people they have named who were equally, if not more, undeserving. Elon Musk in 2021, Greta Thunberg in 2019, Donald Trump in 2016, Mark Zuckerberg in 2010. And then there's the esoteric recipients like "The Good Samaritans" meaning wealthy philanthropist in 2005, "You" in 2006 meaning content creators, "The Protester" in 2011, and so on. Taylor Swift in 2023 is equally as deserving of the title as any of these people have been in the years they received the reward, if not more. She has taken what seemingly felt to her like a huge risk in becoming a little bit politically active over the last year or two against the recommendations of her family and publicists. So for that reason alone I am happy to see how much more popular she has become. As a father of a young girl, I was happy when my daughter asked to listen to Taylor because she is standing up for what she believes in against the ideology she was brought up in, and I know both how important that is and how difficult it is to do.

              Look at the list of recipients and ask "what's the criteria for Time Person of the Year?" The answer that makes the most sense is whoever the editors think will either sell the most copies of Time Magazine that month, or generate the most "buzz" about the magazine.

              7 votes
              1. Lucid
                (edited )
                Link Parent
                You're replying to me as if my comments here have been some tirade against Taylor Swift being this years recipient. In the comment you're replying to I'm only stating that it's not sexist to...

                You're replying to me as if my comments here have been some tirade against Taylor Swift being this years recipient.

                In the comment you're replying to I'm only stating that it's not sexist to criticize the decision.

                I understand why she won this year, I can also say that I disagree with the decision without being sexist.

                People had every right to criticise when Elon Musk won, they retain that right when Taylor Swift wins. She is just another pop star, maybe the most popular one in the world right now, but people are at least allowed to question whether she was the most deserving candidate without being labelled bigots.

                I would usually agree that the person is used to "sell the most copies" but if this was always true then I'd hope Time has since fired the team that thought "The Good Samaritans" winning in 2005 was the best they could come up with.

                5 votes
            2. [5]
              MimicSquid
              Link Parent
              I've never intentionally listened to her music. I don't know that I could tell you what she looked like beyond "blond" and certainly couldn't pick her out of a lineup. I'm no Swiftie. But when...

              I've never intentionally listened to her music. I don't know that I could tell you what she looked like beyond "blond" and certainly couldn't pick her out of a lineup. I'm no Swiftie. But when someone says "what did this pop star do to deserve person of the year?" it certainly speaks to me as someone who's being dismissive of a woman in a way that they would never be dismissive of a man with the same influence. And yes, that's sexism.

              4 votes
              1. [3]
                Lucid
                Link Parent
                I think people are actually just upset about a popstar being awarded person of the year. A quick glance at the list of previous winners, and I don't see any popstars, male or female. The closest...

                I think people are actually just upset about a popstar being awarded person of the year. A quick glance at the list of previous winners, and I don't see any popstars, male or female.

                The closest is probably Elon Musk, and while I admit /r/news comments are not wholly representative, was also heavily criticized. But even so, he was the richest person in the world that year and a case can certainly be made.

                I'm not suggesting there is no case at all for Taylor Swift being "person of the year", but I think it actually shows some sort of bias on your end to assume people are being critical just because she's a woman.

                11 votes
                1. [2]
                  Cycloneblaze
                  Link Parent
                  I don't know, sexism like that is only the most common and pernicious type of prejudice around and one that still pervades virtually all aspects of culture on the internet, not to mention wider...

                  but I think it actually shows some sort of bias on your end to assume people are being critical just because she's a woman.

                  I don't know, sexism like that is only the most common and pernicious type of prejudice around and one that still pervades virtually all aspects of culture on the internet, not to mention wider society? I hope that's not controversial to claim? I didn't even have the same thought as MimicSquid but I don't think you can call it unreasonable.

                  4 votes
                  1. Lucid
                    Link Parent
                    Sexism is highly prevalent in society therefore if anyone says anything critical about a woman, it's not unreasonable to dismiss them as sexist? Nobody here has said anything sexist. I think...

                    Sexism is highly prevalent in society therefore if anyone says anything critical about a woman, it's not unreasonable to dismiss them as sexist?

                    Nobody here has said anything sexist. I think dismissing peoples criticisms as being rooted in bigotry is at least contradictory to good faith discussion, and can definitely be considered unreasonable.

                    8 votes
              2. Trobador
                Link Parent
                I agree with asking ourselves such questions but again, you're making a jump in logic. I would personally be asking the same question if it was Justin Bieber or Johnny Cash or any other male music...

                But when someone says "what did this pop star do to deserve person of the year?" it certainly speaks to me as someone who's being dismissive of a woman in a way that they would never be dismissive of a man with the same influence. And yes, that's sexism.

                I agree with asking ourselves such questions but again, you're making a jump in logic. I would personally be asking the same question if it was Justin Bieber or Johnny Cash or any other male music star ; hell, as much as I think that's sort of wrong, I would have a doubt at the back of my head on whether or not they're a sex pest considering it's the music industry. I don't see how most people's first thought here would be about gender.

                9 votes
    3. [2]
      Raincloud
      Link Parent
      Hitler and Stalin were previous recepients of the "award".

      Hitler and Stalin were previous recepients of the "award".

      4 votes
      1. CptBluebear
        Link Parent
        An award noting the most influential people of that year. I'd say both of them deserve it wholeheartedly. The belief that the "person of the year" is a celebration of that person is common, and...

        An award noting the most influential people of that year. I'd say both of them deserve it wholeheartedly.

        The belief that the "person of the year" is a celebration of that person is common, and subsequently the reason they stopped giving heinous people that award.

        14 votes