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Weekly Middle East war megathread - week of October 14
This thread is posted weekly - please try to post all relevant Middle East war content in here, such as news, updates, opinion articles, etc. Extremely significant events may warrant a separate topic, but almost all should be posted in here.
Please try to avoid antagonistic arguments and bickering matches. Comment threads that devolve into unproductive arguments may be removed so that the overall topic is able to continue.
Israel is a rogue nation. It should be removed from the United Nations
To anyone who didn’t read the article: this is pretty much the only time Mehdi Hasan references Russia, North Korea, and Syria. You can decide for yourself if you think he’s “downplaying” the human rights abuses of these countries, but I definitely wouldn’t just take this person‘s word for it:
The statement he makes here is at least arguably incorrect.
UN peacekeepers were deliberately targeted and murdered during the Rwandan genocide. The largest casualty event was the torture and murder of 10 Belgian peacekeepers who surrendered to Rwandan forces. Whether this counts as "en masse" depends - under the strict definition of "as a group" it certainly qualifies.
During the Yugoslav wars, Bosnian Serbs supported by Federal Yugoslavia engaged in tank assaults against UN positions. Here I suppose one could argue that there is a degree of separation because the perpetrators were from Republika Srpska rather than the UN member state, though given the degree of support I find it a thin covering at best.
In both cases the perpetrating states remained UN members.
The UN is not the world police, it is a forum. Removing members saps legitimacy. Need I remind people of the absolute failure of the League of Nations? Every national departure from a body like the UN disfigures its purpose. No state has ever been expelled from the UN. Even at the height of apartheid, South Africa was simply refused its seat. It is simply an unprecedented and untenable move to make.
so like just to be clear: this article isn’t saying that Israel should be removed from the UN on the basis of human rights abuses.
on the contrary, he is literally citing the fact that the UN does not seem to be interested in removing the likes of North Korea, Russia, and Syria as a reason why nobody should expect the UN to remove Israel regardless of whatever happens to the Palestinian people.
What he points out though is that not even any of these countries or any country pretty much really in the history of the UN has ever so consistently and so brazenly acted with such contempt towards the authority and mission of the UN as Israel has, and this article is literally just questioning why the UN continues to put up with it.
so the reason why he doesn’t go into detail about the human rights abuses of these countries is it is actually totally irrelevant to the thesis that he’s presenting, which is “isn’t it weird that the UN lets one of its members just constantly undermine what it does and ignore its decisions” and not “Israel should be removed from the UN on the basis of human rights abuses comparable to Syria, Russia, and North Korea”
Look I honestly don’t understand how you can read this article and not think that the author who wrote it probably believes pretty much all of the countries you named should not be in the UN either. he literally identifies them as human rights abusers and suggests that their very presence in the UN to some extent attacks and undermines it:
But nothing you have said addresses what the article is really about: whether or not any of these countries come anywhere close to being as brazen about it.
For what it’s worth, I don’t think people should just take Mehdi Hasan’s word for things either, and I’m not trying to convince anybody of anything. I just felt like his perspective here was not being represented accurately, and like his specific criticisms were going ignored.
The very next paragraph in his Wikipedia article says this:
Aside from his religious statements, the only other mention of any "not great things" he has said on his Wikipedia page is this:
So what I see is a pattern of a man slowly breaking away from the fundamentals of his religion and having the integrity and honesty to recognize and apologize for the things he used to believe and say.
The Wikipedia article makes it pretty clear he held progressive opinions while he was still working at Al Jazeera. If anything, his opinions probably became more progressive because he moved to Washington, DC in 2015, which is about the most progressive place in the United States.
It's completely reasonable to write a piece calling out one nation, there have been plenty that have specifically issues with Russia, North Korea and Syria. Your points are classic whataboutism.
U.S. warns Israel it will withhold arms unless Gaza aid starts flowing (Washington Post)
Leaking this seems like a political move. I suppose it’s good that they are gesturing at possibly doing something, though I don’t know if Biden would follow through even if Harris wins.
But it would be convenient for Harris if it did turn out that way, with Biden taking the blame for cutting off Israeli aid before she starts office. It would change the status quo and then Israel and its supporters would have to try to justify resuming military aid.
It may be that Israel decides that don’t need US military aid all that much, so the US loses a (fairly weak) point of leverage, but gains being a little less entangled in Israel’s wars.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna175892
Sounds like Israel thinks it got Sinwar (by accident, too). Can’t say that the IDF hasn’t made a statement militarily post October 7th.
I hope so. The world wakes to a better day if this architect of terror is dead.
Outlets are starting to confirm it, so seems like he's dead. Not sure if this will actually improve/change the situation much though.
In an ideal world, this would be a great offramp for the Gaza operation.
Yep, and as much as I think people try to simplify the situation into good and bad, I'm also more than ready to admit that Netanyahu almost certainly doesn't see an advantage in that and being the corrupt lunatic that he is, could very well just continue escalating.
The other big news today was that the 6 hostages (including Hersh Goldberg-Polin) killed a few weeks ago were the ones he had been keeping with him as his personal shield.
US stealth bombers strike underground Houthi weapons sites in Yemen (Reuters)
U.S. Indicts 2 Linked to Oct. 7 Cyberattack on Israeli Warning System
It's a short article but this part from the beginning gives important context imo.
As Israeli war on Hezbollah expands, rescuers in east reach their limit (Washington Post)
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Lebanese Christians, caught in crossfire, refuse to leave war zone (Washington Post)
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The US is investigating an unauthorized release of classified documents on Israel’s attack plans (AP)