A stealth change being reported now. It’s been in effect since January 1. That’s an absurd amount of bureaucracy. No one really knows how the process is supposed to look. Germans notably love to...
A stealth change being reported now. It’s been in effect since January 1.
German males aged between 17 and 45 may need to seek approval for lengthy stays abroad, under changes introduced as part of a new law which introduced voluntary military service.
That’s an absurd amount of bureaucracy. No one really knows how the process is supposed to look. Germans notably love to travel and for longer periods of time too. I have been abroad since mid October. I don’t know how this will affect me, but since I travel most of the time anyways I should be fine, even though I do not have a permanent residency elsewhere. Might mean I have to set that up after all. So far I’ve just been registered in Germany…
Forgive me for being an uniformed American, but why would males under 45 have to report it if they were NOT part of the volunteer service? Like I get if you sign up for volunteer military service,...
Forgive me for being an uniformed American, but why would males under 45 have to report it if they were NOT part of the volunteer service?
Like I get if you sign up for volunteer military service, that the military kinda needs to know where you may be. That makes sense. But even if you don't sign up for it? Like the US draft doesn't know or care where you are, they would just send notice to your place of permanent residence.
I don’t know. This is big news in Germany right now, because this is a huge cut into our freedom of movement. The German passport is one of the strongest in the world, and everywhere you go you’ll...
I don’t know. This is big news in Germany right now, because this is a huge cut into our freedom of movement. The German passport is one of the strongest in the world, and everywhere you go you’ll see Germans. Tons of us take gap years abroad or take longer vacations (we have 6 weeks of holiday a year)
I personally am impacted and know tons of Germans spending much more than 3 months a year abroad.
Apparently this used to be a rule during time of crisis, such as wartime, or in nato defense situations. But now it just applies all the time
Yeah I've run into a lot of Germans on hiking trips here and abroad. Hopefully this is a misunderstanding of the new law, cause it certainly sounds like a huge headache.
Yeah I've run into a lot of Germans on hiking trips here and abroad. Hopefully this is a misunderstanding of the new law, cause it certainly sounds like a huge headache.
Well, time for someone (who's got the balls and money) to start a judicial process by suing the German government for violating core EU law and eventually bringing the case all the way to the ECJ...
Well, time for someone (who's got the balls and money) to start a judicial process by suing the German government for violating core EU law and eventually bringing the case all the way to the ECJ level.
In the US, those registered within the Selective Service System between 18-25yo are supposed to update their addresses every time they move. I only found out about this a few years ago when...
In the US, those registered within the Selective Service System between 18-25yo are supposed to update their addresses every time they move. I only found out about this a few years ago when looking at the Selective Service website, and noticed they still have my old childhood home on record. I'm also way past 25yo, so it's NBD at this point. But I definitely moved a few times during those years and never updated it.
I imagine the vast majority of American men act similarly, by not acting. Mostly because they forget or, probably more commonly, don't know. Plus never thinking about their registration after they register.
So I could see an argument for notifying the government, for draft purposes, if one is abroad for extended periods of time. 3+ months continuously abroad is definitely outside the realm of a typical vacation (at least to us vacation-starved Americans). Even a semester of studying abroad is still living abroad.
But this is different in that German men may need permission to leave the country, period, if they'll be abroad for more than 3mos. Which is pretty wild outside of wartime. I know Ukraine has restricted men's ability to leave the country, but there's an obvious reason why that's happening, sadly.
It'll be interesting to see how this turns out. Personally, I think it's wrong for a government to restrict travel en masse like that outside of wartime (and by this, I mean like actual homeland defense, not just like Germany assisting in a foreign war with allies or something). Hopefully the process won't be to onerous.
From what I’ve read, there is no process in place so far (… at least digitally). There is also supposedly no reason this should ever result in something other than a “yes, noted, and you’re...
Hopefully the process won't be to onerous.
From what I’ve read, there is no process in place so far (… at least digitally).
There is also supposedly no reason this should ever result in something other than a “yes, noted, and you’re allowed to go”, completely regardless of what and why you’re telling them about it, and the discussion is also partially around that fact – why bother implementing this if it doesn’t “do” or result in anything, except for maybe a database entry that has a good chance of not being centrally tracked anyways?
Compulsory military service in Germany has been a big political issue for a while, and I suspect a big part of things is that there's not much faith that this will remain voluntary.
Compulsory military service in Germany has been a big political issue for a while, and I suspect a big part of things is that there's not much faith that this will remain voluntary.
I wonder if it was intended to slip in unnoticed, whether it was an accidental side effect of a change of wording, or whether it was intentional and those adding the provision just forgot to...
I wonder if it was intended to slip in unnoticed, whether it was an accidental side effect of a change of wording, or whether it was intentional and those adding the provision just forgot to mention it?
It’s pretty scary that this change has been made at the beginning of they year and news only come out now (when basically everyone who was gone missed the deadline)
It’s pretty scary that this change has been made at the beginning of they year and news only come out now (when basically everyone who was gone missed the deadline)
This feels like the bare minimum of bureaucracy in Germany! It also seems like a violation of many rights that Germans hold sacred (DATENSCHUTZ!), so I can't see how it could survive.
That’s an absurd amount of bureaucracy.
This feels like the bare minimum of bureaucracy in Germany! It also seems like a violation of many rights that Germans hold sacred (DATENSCHUTZ!), so I can't see how it could survive.
One would imagine the answer to whether a German planning to travel abroad for the next six months would show up for voluntary military service might be rather obvious. Unless it's not that...
One would imagine the answer to whether a German planning to travel abroad for the next six months would show up for voluntary military service might be rather obvious. Unless it's not that voluntary at all.
EU law supersedes national law, irrespective of everything else including when a law was made. There may be exceptions following from the procedures for EU member states in implementing EU law...
EU law supersedes national law, irrespective of everything else including when a law was made.
There may be exceptions following from the procedures for EU member states in implementing EU law into national law, but once that is done, there's no question.
This follows from the famous Costa v ENEL case from 1964, and the result has been reiterated in several judgements since.
A stealth change being reported now. It’s been in effect since January 1.
That’s an absurd amount of bureaucracy. No one really knows how the process is supposed to look. Germans notably love to travel and for longer periods of time too. I have been abroad since mid October. I don’t know how this will affect me, but since I travel most of the time anyways I should be fine, even though I do not have a permanent residency elsewhere. Might mean I have to set that up after all. So far I’ve just been registered in Germany…
Forgive me for being an uniformed American, but why would males under 45 have to report it if they were NOT part of the volunteer service?
Like I get if you sign up for volunteer military service, that the military kinda needs to know where you may be. That makes sense. But even if you don't sign up for it? Like the US draft doesn't know or care where you are, they would just send notice to your place of permanent residence.
I don’t know. This is big news in Germany right now, because this is a huge cut into our freedom of movement. The German passport is one of the strongest in the world, and everywhere you go you’ll see Germans. Tons of us take gap years abroad or take longer vacations (we have 6 weeks of holiday a year)
I personally am impacted and know tons of Germans spending much more than 3 months a year abroad.
Apparently this used to be a rule during time of crisis, such as wartime, or in nato defense situations. But now it just applies all the time
Yeah I've run into a lot of Germans on hiking trips here and abroad. Hopefully this is a misunderstanding of the new law, cause it certainly sounds like a huge headache.
Well, time for someone (who's got the balls and money) to start a judicial process by suing the German government for violating core EU law and eventually bringing the case all the way to the ECJ level.
In the US, those registered within the Selective Service System between 18-25yo are supposed to update their addresses every time they move. I only found out about this a few years ago when looking at the Selective Service website, and noticed they still have my old childhood home on record. I'm also way past 25yo, so it's NBD at this point. But I definitely moved a few times during those years and never updated it.
I imagine the vast majority of American men act similarly, by not acting. Mostly because they forget or, probably more commonly, don't know. Plus never thinking about their registration after they register.
So I could see an argument for notifying the government, for draft purposes, if one is abroad for extended periods of time. 3+ months continuously abroad is definitely outside the realm of a typical vacation (at least to us vacation-starved Americans). Even a semester of studying abroad is still living abroad.
But this is different in that German men may need permission to leave the country, period, if they'll be abroad for more than 3mos. Which is pretty wild outside of wartime. I know Ukraine has restricted men's ability to leave the country, but there's an obvious reason why that's happening, sadly.
It'll be interesting to see how this turns out. Personally, I think it's wrong for a government to restrict travel en masse like that outside of wartime (and by this, I mean like actual homeland defense, not just like Germany assisting in a foreign war with allies or something). Hopefully the process won't be to onerous.
From what I’ve read, there is no process in place so far (… at least digitally).
There is also supposedly no reason this should ever result in something other than a “yes, noted, and you’re allowed to go”, completely regardless of what and why you’re telling them about it, and the discussion is also partially around that fact – why bother implementing this if it doesn’t “do” or result in anything, except for maybe a database entry that has a good chance of not being centrally tracked anyways?
Compulsory military service in Germany has been a big political issue for a while, and I suspect a big part of things is that there's not much faith that this will remain voluntary.
I wonder if it was intended to slip in unnoticed, whether it was an accidental side effect of a change of wording, or whether it was intentional and those adding the provision just forgot to mention it?
It’s pretty scary that this change has been made at the beginning of they year and news only come out now (when basically everyone who was gone missed the deadline)
I bet! I hope it doesn't result in a lot of trouble for you and others
This feels like the bare minimum of bureaucracy in Germany! It also seems like a violation of many rights that Germans hold sacred (DATENSCHUTZ!), so I can't see how it could survive.
One would imagine the answer to whether a German planning to travel abroad for the next six months would show up for voluntary military service might be rather obvious. Unless it's not that voluntary at all.
I wonder how this interacts with freedom of movement within the EU, especially as this law predates the EU forming.
EU law supersedes national law, irrespective of everything else including when a law was made.
There may be exceptions following from the procedures for EU member states in implementing EU law into national law, but once that is done, there's no question.
This follows from the famous Costa v ENEL case from 1964, and the result has been reiterated in several judgements since.