It's going to be an interesting couple of weeks. Most people expect the government to lose tomorrow's vote on the negotiated deal (turns out that a compromise position on an issue where the two...
It's going to be an interesting couple of weeks. Most people expect the government to lose tomorrow's vote on the negotiated deal (turns out that a compromise position on an issue where the two sides are diametrically opposed just makes everyone unhappy), at which point nobody is quite sure what'll happen.
In the meantime, we have the EU making this very timely announcement on how easy it would be for the whole problem to go away, and a credible legal argument that the leave vote was illegal in the first place.
I'm honestly quite surprised how long it's been politically viable for the government to keep supporting leave as it's become clearer what the consequences are actually likely to be. With any luck, whatever shake up may be forced tomorrow will provide a route for whoever ends up in charge to acknowledge this without losing face.
And so it begins: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46509288 The government are cancelling their own vote in order to buy themselves time to tweak the agreement. EU representatives are firm...
The government are cancelling their own vote in order to buy themselves time to tweak the agreement. EU representatives are firm that nothing's going to change (and even if it were, it's taken two years to get to this point). Some are suggesting that May has so little support that the vote could be forced to go ahead anyway. And Sturgeon has publicly offered to support Corbyn in a vote of no confidence.
I think there will be a no confidence motion very soon, though what the results of general election right now would be I have no idea, probably a hung parliament? Honestly I'm really hoping Brexit...
I think there will be a no confidence motion very soon, though what the results of general election right now would be I have no idea, probably a hung parliament?
Honestly I'm really hoping Brexit is cancelled and the past two years go down as an enormous amount of wasted time & energy rather than going through with something that is clearly bad.
One of the primary impediments at the moment is that neither the leader of the party in power (Theresa May) nor the leader of the leading opposition (Jeremy Corbyn) support a reconsideration of...
One of the primary impediments at the moment is that neither the leader of the party in power (Theresa May) nor the leader of the leading opposition (Jeremy Corbyn) support a reconsideration of the question. Indeed, Jeremy Corbyn historically supported Brexit even when Theresa May did not.
Jeremy Corbyn's party, Labour, is in a bit of an odd situation in general; their base spans younger metropolitan voters who would rather lose a toe than undergo Brexit, to depressed working communities that formed some of Brexit's strongest constituencies. So from the top to the bottom, it's not necessarily been the party around which a reconsideration could coalesce.
Given the news in OP, as well as Theresa May's increasingly shaky mandate, it's certainly a possibility. But to inject a bit of personal cynicism, I think Jeremy Corbyn would be very happy to find himself PM of a post-Brexit Britain, provided that the Tories are the ones hanging themselves on the undertaking.
Why do you think Corbyn is so pro-Brexit? Edit: I see euro-skepticism is at his core: https://www.markpack.org.uk/153744/jeremy-corbyn-brexit/ https://www.quora.com/Is-Jeremy-Corbyn-a-Brexiteer
The reluctance with which he supported Remain. The placidity with which he received the referendum result. His reticence to support alternatives to Brexit. His historic euroscepticism, which...
The reluctance with which he supported Remain. The placidity with which he received the referendum result. His reticence to support alternatives to Brexit. His historic euroscepticism, which predates the EU itself (1975 EC vote, Maastricht Treaty vote).
That's not to say I disagree entirely with his point of view. He's occasionally characterized the EU as (to paraphrase) a bunch of austerity-crazed neoliberal goons, which is perhaps not entirely inaccurate. He's demonstrated enough personal character over the years that I think his focus on opportunities and protections for working people is honestly-held (more than one can say for most politicians) -- but the extent to which he regards the EU as an ally in that cause appears to wax and wane.
Throwing out a figure of 20% that Brexit is cancelled within 2 months. There's deadlock at every part of the process. Given how self obsessed politicians tend to be I think they'll try to get an...
Throwing out a figure of 20% that Brexit is cancelled within 2 months.
There's deadlock at every part of the process. Given how self obsessed politicians tend to be I think they'll try to get an extension to delay & maneuver.
In the meantime Theresa May is probably done and a general election not far off. But though the players may change the options and scenarios available won't.
The questions for May in the House of Commons are hilarious. She's saying over and over again that she can't say when the vote will be because that depends on the conversations and negotiations...
The questions for May in the House of Commons are hilarious.
She's saying over and over again that she can't say when the vote will be because that depends on the conversations and negotiations with the EU.
She's saying the EU is deciding when UK's parliament is going to vote on an issue.
Jesus, I love the "political laughter" in UK parliament. It's so above all pretense, like, nobody is giving a fuck about coming off as "statesmanlike", it's yelling and hollering and the...
Jesus, I love the "political laughter" in UK parliament. It's so above all pretense, like, nobody is giving a fuck about coming off as "statesmanlike", it's yelling and hollering and the confidence of having sat through centuries of that shit.
A friend of mine in the Royal Navy, who worked as a liaison to the US Navy for a while, put it as something like "the US is eager to establish and promote a nonsense of heraldry and fuss, while...
A friend of mine in the Royal Navy, who worked as a liaison to the US Navy for a while, put it as something like "the US is eager to establish and promote a nonsense of heraldry and fuss, while the UK is eager to demonstrate that it takes its nonsense of heraldry and fuss for granted".
Well, Teresa May's government exists only because she got support for confidence and supply from the pro-Brexit Democratic Unionist Party. She has to keep supporting Leave or her government loses...
I'm honestly quite surprised how long it's been politically viable for the government to keep supporting leave
Well, Teresa May's government exists only because she got support for confidence and supply from the pro-Brexit Democratic Unionist Party. She has to keep supporting Leave or her government loses power.
Interesting - looks like the FT doesn't paywall if you come from Google, which is why I didn't notice it in the first place. The Electoral Commission concluded a few months back that the Leave...
Interesting - looks like the FT doesn't paywall if you come from Google, which is why I didn't notice it in the first place. The Electoral Commission concluded a few months back that the Leave campaign broke financing law (BBC) and fined them, although I'm not sure what came of it after it was referred to the police.
It's amazing how a referendum aimed at getting much needed clarification managed to do the complete opposite. The UK is still not-not a part of the EU, but managed to embarass itself with a...
It's amazing how a referendum aimed at getting much needed clarification managed to do the complete opposite. The UK is still not-not a part of the EU, but managed to embarass itself with a frightening lack of political vision or purpose.
Whatever you think about the pros and cons the longer this goes on the clearer it is that the leave campaign was based on a whole bunch of lies. The NHS is not getting 350 million extra a week, we...
Whatever you think about the pros and cons the longer this goes on the clearer it is that the leave campaign was based on a whole bunch of lies. The NHS is not getting 350 million extra a week, we cannot easily negotiate trade deals any Brexit will give us an economic hit.
If you think having a life ruled by unconstrained Westminster rather than Brussels & Westminster that's your prerogative. Suggesting remain arguments are propaganda and leaves were not is either idiotic or dishonest.
It's going to be an interesting couple of weeks. Most people expect the government to lose tomorrow's vote on the negotiated deal (turns out that a compromise position on an issue where the two sides are diametrically opposed just makes everyone unhappy), at which point nobody is quite sure what'll happen.
In the meantime, we have the EU making this very timely announcement on how easy it would be for the whole problem to go away, and a credible legal argument that the leave vote was illegal in the first place.
I'm honestly quite surprised how long it's been politically viable for the government to keep supporting leave as it's become clearer what the consequences are actually likely to be. With any luck, whatever shake up may be forced tomorrow will provide a route for whoever ends up in charge to acknowledge this without losing face.
And so it begins: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46509288
The government are cancelling their own vote in order to buy themselves time to tweak the agreement. EU representatives are firm that nothing's going to change (and even if it were, it's taken two years to get to this point). Some are suggesting that May has so little support that the vote could be forced to go ahead anyway. And Sturgeon has publicly offered to support Corbyn in a vote of no confidence.
I think there will be a no confidence motion very soon, though what the results of general election right now would be I have no idea, probably a hung parliament?
Honestly I'm really hoping Brexit is cancelled and the past two years go down as an enormous amount of wasted time & energy rather than going through with something that is clearly bad.
As someone who is not a UK citizen, but has followed Brexit from a distance, how likely is this?
One of the primary impediments at the moment is that neither the leader of the party in power (Theresa May) nor the leader of the leading opposition (Jeremy Corbyn) support a reconsideration of the question. Indeed, Jeremy Corbyn historically supported Brexit even when Theresa May did not.
Jeremy Corbyn's party, Labour, is in a bit of an odd situation in general; their base spans younger metropolitan voters who would rather lose a toe than undergo Brexit, to depressed working communities that formed some of Brexit's strongest constituencies. So from the top to the bottom, it's not necessarily been the party around which a reconsideration could coalesce.
Given the news in OP, as well as Theresa May's increasingly shaky mandate, it's certainly a possibility. But to inject a bit of personal cynicism, I think Jeremy Corbyn would be very happy to find himself PM of a post-Brexit Britain, provided that the Tories are the ones hanging themselves on the undertaking.
Why do you think Corbyn is so pro-Brexit?
Edit: I see euro-skepticism is at his core:
https://www.markpack.org.uk/153744/jeremy-corbyn-brexit/
https://www.quora.com/Is-Jeremy-Corbyn-a-Brexiteer
The reluctance with which he supported Remain. The placidity with which he received the referendum result. His reticence to support alternatives to Brexit. His historic euroscepticism, which predates the EU itself (1975 EC vote, Maastricht Treaty vote).
That's not to say I disagree entirely with his point of view. He's occasionally characterized the EU as (to paraphrase) a bunch of austerity-crazed neoliberal goons, which is perhaps not entirely inaccurate. He's demonstrated enough personal character over the years that I think his focus on opportunities and protections for working people is honestly-held (more than one can say for most politicians) -- but the extent to which he regards the EU as an ally in that cause appears to wax and wane.
Throwing out a figure of 20% that Brexit is cancelled within 2 months.
There's deadlock at every part of the process. Given how self obsessed politicians tend to be I think they'll try to get an extension to delay & maneuver.
In the meantime Theresa May is probably done and a general election not far off. But though the players may change the options and scenarios available won't.
The questions for May in the House of Commons are hilarious.
She's saying over and over again that she can't say when the vote will be because that depends on the conversations and negotiations with the EU.
She's saying the EU is deciding when UK's parliament is going to vote on an issue.
Jesus, I love the "political laughter" in UK parliament. It's so above all pretense, like, nobody is giving a fuck about coming off as "statesmanlike", it's yelling and hollering and the confidence of having sat through centuries of that shit.
A friend of mine in the Royal Navy, who worked as a liaison to the US Navy for a while, put it as something like "the US is eager to establish and promote a nonsense of heraldry and fuss, while the UK is eager to demonstrate that it takes its nonsense of heraldry and fuss for granted".
https://www.ft.com/content/1bf6c2ca-fc88-11e8-aebf-99e208d3e521
Well, Teresa May's government exists only because she got support for confidence and supply from the pro-Brexit Democratic Unionist Party. She has to keep supporting Leave or her government loses power.
Is there a source for the vote being illegal that is not behind a paywall?
Interesting - looks like the FT doesn't paywall if you come from Google, which is why I didn't notice it in the first place. The Electoral Commission concluded a few months back that the Leave campaign broke financing law (BBC) and fined them, although I'm not sure what came of it after it was referred to the police.
The article I linked above was referring to a group who were arguing for the referendum itself to be voided due to the financing breaches. Can you see it if you click through with this redirect? https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ft.com/content/ec0746ac-fa16-11e8-af46-2022a0b02a6c
Incidentally, as @nic pointed out, the legal challenge to void the referendum does seem to have been denied as of yesterday: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ft.com/content/1bf6c2ca-fc88-11e8-aebf-99e208d3e521
I've changed the browser and now those links work, thanks!
It's amazing how a referendum aimed at getting much needed clarification managed to do the complete opposite. The UK is still not-not a part of the EU, but managed to embarass itself with a frightening lack of political vision or purpose.
how kind of them, giving britain another chance to do what the eu wants. the people weren't propagandized properly before the first vote, looks like.
Whatever you think about the pros and cons the longer this goes on the clearer it is that the leave campaign was based on a whole bunch of lies. The NHS is not getting 350 million extra a week, we cannot easily negotiate trade deals any Brexit will give us an economic hit.
If you think having a life ruled by unconstrained Westminster rather than Brussels & Westminster that's your prerogative. Suggesting remain arguments are propaganda and leaves were not is either idiotic or dishonest.
it's all good, i knew the vote would be held again as soon as leave won. it wasn't supposed to go that way, i get it. back on track now.