35 votes

Trump impeachment: Failed witnesses vote paves way for acquittal

36 comments

  1. [3]
    emdash
    Link
    Generally, I don't think anyone expected anything else to occur here. This was always going to be an intensely partisan affair. Although it is revealing that clearly the republican priority is...

    Generally, I don't think anyone expected anything else to occur here. This was always going to be an intensely partisan affair. Although it is revealing that clearly the republican priority is that blowjobs are a more serious national matter in terms of presidential trust than Trump's repeated abuses of power.

    35 votes
    1. patience_limited
      Link Parent
      The Republican Party's modus operandi, at least in the Southern Strategy era, is power over others, no more and no less. Lately, the right-wing authoritarianism has become more overt. If moral...

      The Republican Party's modus operandi, at least in the Southern Strategy era, is power over others, no more and no less. Lately, the right-wing authoritarianism has become more overt.

      If moral policing over blowjobs provides sufficient leverage to disempower the opposing party, then that's an acceptable tactic, but nothing the opposition asserts will ever be acceptable unless it gives Republicans more power rather than less. The "it's OK if you're a Republican" trope is far, far too accurate, and it's at the heart of the tribal, authoritarian mindset.

      21 votes
    2. scissortail
      Link Parent
      Part of me still naively believed that at least a couple more members of the party that touts "law and order" and "constitutional values" would have an actual trial, hear all of the evidence...

      Part of me still naively believed that at least a couple more members of the party that touts "law and order" and "constitutional values" would have an actual trial, hear all of the evidence before them, and attempt to make the most informed decision possible on the matter. Hell, they could have at least pretended to--and that likely would have been better for them in the long run.

      With this move they've made it crystal clear that their goal is "power at any cost", even if that means setting a precedent that makes the POTUS essentially a monarch as long as they don't break a law (even though according to the GAO, a law was indeed broken).

      I'm sad and more than a little disgusted. If they vote to acquit, and I'm 99.999% sure they will, I hope I'll see some of you in the streets with me.

      7 votes
  2. [10]
    Grawlix
    (edited )
    Link
    Whenever there's a critical vote that passes in the Senate with 51 Republican votes, I always think of how few Republicans it would take to show an ounce of integrity and humanity to make a...

    Whenever there's a critical vote that passes in the Senate with 51 Republican votes, I always think of how few Republicans it would take to show an ounce of integrity and humanity to make a difference—and how that never happens. We don't need most of them, we don't need half of them, we just need a handful, and they're never there.

    There are only ever enough Senators voting against the party to not make a difference. It's usually moderate Republicans from purple states. It has to be coordinated.

    I mean, when was the last time we were surprised by a Republican vote since John McCain?

    24 votes
    1. [6]
      Loire
      Link Parent
      Of course it's coordinated. For all their faults Republican's are incredibly loyal to the party. They do not vote at risk to the party ever. Romney is quite possibly the only Republican in that...

      Of course it's coordinated. For all their faults Republican's are incredibly loyal to the party. They do not vote at risk to the party ever. Romney is quite possibly the only Republican in that chamber bordering on a good human being. The rest were all happy to vote against so much as hearing witnesses and seeing evidence in a trial of the most corrupt president, possibly in American history. They couldn't even vote to do the bare minimum in preserving some form of the American judicial system.

      11 votes
      1. [5]
        arp242
        Link Parent
        From the Republican's view, I have the impression it's either the imperfect Republican party, or the extreme left and their gay/trans agenda taking away our guns turning the US in to a Muslim...

        From the Republican's view, I have the impression it's either the imperfect Republican party, or the extreme left and their gay/trans agenda taking away our guns turning the US in to a Muslim state... or something.

        The fear-mongering of "the left" is quite powerful.

        3 votes
        1. [4]
          calm_bomb
          Link Parent
          Not muslim, but a sharia coutry for sure. Seeing this all act from outside I get more and more hints of The Handmaid Tale in the US, unfortunatelly. And Democrats not being united helps a lot.

          Not muslim, but a sharia coutry for sure. Seeing this all act from outside I get more and more hints of The Handmaid Tale in the US, unfortunatelly. And Democrats not being united helps a lot.

          2 votes
          1. [2]
            Ellimist
            Link Parent
            What’s always annoyed me about the GOP/Conservatives fear mongering about Sharia, is that they basically espouse the same principle. Sharia Law, in its most basic explanation, is just law based on...

            What’s always annoyed me about the GOP/Conservatives fear mongering about Sharia, is that they basically espouse the same principle.

            Sharia Law, in its most basic explanation, is just law based on the Islamic faith.

            The GOP/Conservatives have no issue pushing forward laws based on the Christian faith, however.

            4 votes
            1. calm_bomb
              Link Parent
              I meant christian sharia. I'm not the only one (and not even that knowledgeable at that) saying that the religious right in the US is getting more and more close to imposing religious rule over...

              I meant christian sharia. I'm not the only one (and not even that knowledgeable at that) saying that the religious right in the US is getting more and more close to imposing religious rule over the country, as the radical muslims are doing by imposing sharia where they can. That's all.

              Also, christianity is at least as bad as islam, so it's not an excuse.

              1 vote
          2. Parliament
            Link Parent
            I think Democrats have maintained a united front quite well despite disagreements between the liberal and left wings of the party.

            And Democrats not being united helps a lot.

            I think Democrats have maintained a united front quite well despite disagreements between the liberal and left wings of the party.

    2. Archimedes
      Link Parent
      It's definitely coordinated. McConnell gives "hall passes" to those who need them the most without jeopardizing his majority. He's very good at that kind of thing.

      It's definitely coordinated. McConnell gives "hall passes" to those who need them the most without jeopardizing his majority. He's very good at that kind of thing.

      2 votes
    3. NoblePath
      Link Parent
      Your deficit dollars at work.

      Your deficit dollars at work.

      2 votes
    4. Kuromantis
      Link Parent
      Unfortunately if anyone ever did so Fox News News would probably make a huge fuss out of it and make them be indeed unelectable.

      Unfortunately if anyone ever did so Fox News News would probably make a huge fuss out of it and make them be indeed unelectable.

  3. [5]
    Ellimist
    Link
    Disappointed but not surprised. I had mildly hoped that the senators on the fence like Collins, Murkowski, and Alexander would vote for witnesses but wasn’t overly optimistic. I know Collins did...

    Disappointed but not surprised. I had mildly hoped that the senators on the fence like Collins, Murkowski, and Alexander would vote for witnesses but wasn’t overly optimistic. I know Collins did vote in favor and we’ll see if/when and how quickly she gets shunned by the GOP now.

    I’ve lost all faith in the American government.

    Bill Clinton gets impeached for lying about a damn blow job but Trump is legitimately abusing his power as president and crickets

    17 votes
    1. [3]
      suspended
      Link Parent
      She won't be shunned. She was ordered by Moscow Mitch to vote yes. It's what's called a 'hall pass' and was deliberate since she is facing losing her seat to Sara Gideon.

      I know Collins did vote in favor and we’ll see if/when and how quickly she gets shunned by the GOP now.

      She won't be shunned. She was ordered by Moscow Mitch to vote yes. It's what's called a 'hall pass' and was deliberate since she is facing losing her seat to Sara Gideon.

      10 votes
      1. [2]
        Ellimist
        Link Parent
        Do you have a source on that? Not calling you a liar or wrong, just want to educate myself. It wasn't something I heard although I admit that I hadn't really kept up with everything really in depth.

        Do you have a source on that? Not calling you a liar or wrong, just want to educate myself. It wasn't something I heard although I admit that I hadn't really kept up with everything really in depth.

        1 vote
        1. patience_limited
          Link Parent
          There's speculative punditry from committed Washington, D.C. watchers asserting the existence of a pattern where "moderate" Republican senators are permitted occasional, meaningless contrarian...

          There's speculative punditry from committed Washington, D.C. watchers asserting the existence of a pattern where "moderate" Republican senators are permitted occasional, meaningless contrarian votes if their home state voters value independence from national parties.

          I doubt there's direct evidence of backroom deals, but the voting patterns of Collins, Murkowski, Romney, et al. on issues of importance to Republican donors are very much in line with the rest of the party.

          9 votes
    2. post_below
      Link Parent
      To be clear, Clinton was impeached in the same way that Trump will likely be. Impeached by the house, acquitted by the senate. That Trumps offences were far worse doesn't change that lying under...

      To be clear, Clinton was impeached in the same way that Trump will likely be. Impeached by the house, acquitted by the senate.

      That Trumps offences were far worse doesn't change that lying under oath was a good reason for impeachment.

      2 votes
  4. [2]
    suspended
    Link
    I am a niche Reddit user and moderator. I've found a particular user on Reddit to be incredibly helpful in wrapping my head around US politics. Thus, I would recommend following /u/PoppinKREAM.

    I am a niche Reddit user and moderator. I've found a particular user on Reddit to be incredibly helpful in wrapping my head around US politics.

    Thus, I would recommend following /u/PoppinKREAM.

    8 votes
  5. [7]
    MimicSquid
    Link
    Ok, so let's see how/if elections will work.

    Ok, so let's see how/if elections will work.

    8 votes
    1. [6]
      tlalexander
      Link Parent
      Well the Democratic Party establishment and the DNC are trying to sabotage the election by forcing their preferred (and uninteresting) candidate like they did in 2016. I really wish the DNC didn’t...

      Well the Democratic Party establishment and the DNC are trying to sabotage the election by forcing their preferred (and uninteresting) candidate like they did in 2016. I really wish the DNC didn’t have the power it has.

      9 votes
      1. [5]
        Archimedes
        Link Parent
        Are you referring to the super delegate thing? That's not something actually being considered.

        Are you referring to the super delegate thing? That's not something actually being considered.

        3 votes
        1. [4]
          tlalexander
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          Actually the super delegates still exist. The first time the delegates vote the super delegates will vote with their state. But if there is not a clear winner they go a second ballot (I don’t...

          Actually the super delegates still exist. The first time the delegates vote the super delegates will vote with their state. But if there is not a clear winner they go a second ballot (I don’t understand this) and the super delegates can do the same thing they did in 2016.
          https://www.270towin.com/content/superdelegate-rule-changes-for-the-2020-democratic-nomination

          But I’m not just talking about that. I’m also talking about the way the democratic establishment in general (including reporters and politicians) decided a year ago that Biden was the “front runner” and have been pushing the perception that other candidates don’t exist. The system strongly favors their chosen candidate and this seems completely undemocratic to me.

          EDIT: I mean look at this crap - a few DNC members are considering reversing the rule change because they want to stop Bernie. This should not even be possible!!! Gahhhh.

          https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/31/dnc-superdelegates-110083

          2 votes
          1. Parliament
            Link Parent
            Did you read about the DNC changing the rules for debate qualification to allow Bloomberg in? Essentially validating the assertion that you can buy your way to relevance in the Democratic Party.

            Did you read about the DNC changing the rules for debate qualification to allow Bloomberg in? Essentially validating the assertion that you can buy your way to relevance in the Democratic Party.

            4 votes
          2. [2]
            Archimedes
            Link Parent
            Yeah, that Politico link was what I had in mind. That's just a few people talking, not a DNC conspiracy. I'm not sure why that's a even news story at this point.

            Yeah, that Politico link was what I had in mind. That's just a few people talking, not a DNC conspiracy. I'm not sure why that's a even news story at this point.

            2 votes
            1. tlalexander
              Link Parent
              As I said, it bothers me that this is even possible.

              As I said, it bothers me that this is even possible.

              1 vote
  6. [7]
    teaearlgraycold
    Link
    I hope no one gets too beat up by this. Yes, Trump is making our country worse by the second. But the majority of the country wants him gone. Widen that margin and vote him out in November.

    I hope no one gets too beat up by this. Yes, Trump is making our country worse by the second. But the majority of the country wants him gone. Widen that margin and vote him out in November.

    6 votes
    1. [2]
      envy
      Link Parent
      You mean like the majority voted for Hillary in 2016?

      But the majority of the country wants him gone.

      You mean like the majority voted for Hillary in 2016?

      12 votes
      1. Grawlix
        Link Parent
        And Gore in 2000. Fun fact: Bush and Trump, despite losing the popular vote to get into office, nominated a total of 4 Justices to the Supreme Court. So... yeah. The government has absolutely been...

        And Gore in 2000. Fun fact: Bush and Trump, despite losing the popular vote to get into office, nominated a total of 4 Justices to the Supreme Court.

        So... yeah. The government has absolutely been killing what democracy we had for a while now,

        10 votes
    2. patience_limited
      Link Parent
      I don't think that the majority of the country wanting Trump gone will be enough to do the job. It's not just the intrinsic biases of the Electoral College, voter suppression, disinformation, and...

      I don't think that the majority of the country wanting Trump gone will be enough to do the job.

      It's not just the intrinsic biases of the Electoral College, voter suppression, disinformation, and all the rest. It's the terrifying solidarity of that Trump base. All it took was a committed 1/3 of the German Weimar Republic's voters to cement Hitler's power long enough to subvert any vestiges of democratic institutions in the state.

      I'm not saying the U.S. is in exactly the same political situation as Weimar Germany, but I really am buckling up for another historical era of globalized fascism. Even if Trump is voted out successfully, the Republican Party has done a great deal of damage. They've fostered a militant, violence-ready faction that will disturb our politics for decades to come.

      9 votes
    3. [2]
      Ellimist
      Link Parent
      As much as I'd like to think how you do......I'm not convinced. I think Trumps support with his base is strong enough that they won't be dissuaded and any Conservative voters will vote for him on...

      As much as I'd like to think how you do......I'm not convinced. I think Trumps support with his base is strong enough that they won't be dissuaded and any Conservative voters will vote for him on the basis of him being a Republican, even if they don't agree with him overall.

      5 votes
      1. Omnicrola
        Link Parent
        I think one of the main issues with this election is there same as 2016. Trump had his following, and they are going to vote for him no matter what. Then there's a bunch of people who don't like...

        I think one of the main issues with this election is there same as 2016. Trump had his following, and they are going to vote for him no matter what. Then there's a bunch of people who don't like Trump, but also aren't fiercely Democrat enough to vote D regardless of who the candidate is. So instead they'll stay home and not vote at all. If the Democrats can't field a candidate that appeals, we're fucked.

        2 votes
    4. tlalexander
      Link Parent
      I’m not so sure Trump will lose. Especially if he goes up against Biden. Trump beat an establishment democrat once and I bet he can do it again.

      I’m not so sure Trump will lose. Especially if he goes up against Biden. Trump beat an establishment democrat once and I bet he can do it again.

      1 vote
  7. 888
    Link
    I’m not American, but as an outside viewer I’m not surprised at the result but at the apathetic response to the result. For a country that prides itself on its democracy and rule of law, this to...

    I’m not American, but as an outside viewer I’m not surprised at the result but at the apathetic response to the result.

    For a country that prides itself on its democracy and rule of law, this to me proves just how fundamentally broken the system is, and it has little to do with Trump.

    To me this looks like a pretty clear roadmap to totalitarianism and I don’t see how anything less than a civil war will change things.

    4 votes
  8. freestylesno
    Link
    I feel like this is more that noone wants to deal with taking him out of office.

    I feel like this is more that noone wants to deal with taking him out of office.