26 votes

Boris Johnson admitted to hospital as COVID-19 symptoms persist

22 comments

  1. [2]
    dubteedub
    Link
    Update: Boris Johnson has now been moved to the intensive care unit. https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1247240533115670529

    Update: Boris Johnson has now been moved to the intensive care unit.

    https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1247240533115670529

    13 votes
    1. aphoenix
      Link Parent
      I hope he recovers quickly. One of the best assets a country can have is someone with intimate knowledge of how awful things are, who has the power to make change.

      I hope he recovers quickly. One of the best assets a country can have is someone with intimate knowledge of how awful things are, who has the power to make change.

      8 votes
  2. [13]
    JXM
    Link
    On the one hand, I try to remember that he's a person who's suffering. On the other hand, he's also made countless people suffer needlessly so it's hard to feel bad for him. Quite the moral conundrum.

    On the one hand, I try to remember that he's a person who's suffering. On the other hand, he's also made countless people suffer needlessly so it's hard to feel bad for him.

    Quite the moral conundrum.

    11 votes
    1. [9]
      ThatFanficGuy
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      I had the same consideration when Roger Ailes, the founder of Fox News, died. People on the forum I was part of at the time celebrated his death, and I couldn't reconcile it with the fact that a...

      I had the same consideration when Roger Ailes, the founder of Fox News, died. People on the forum I was part of at the time celebrated his death, and I couldn't reconcile it with the fact that a person died and people are cheering.

      At some point I figured it's worth limiting the amount of empathy you give to people who've made it their life goal to feed off fear and worry on a national scale. Johnson is a thorougly-unpleasant man who's charismatic enough to get away with it if you forget the shit he's been doing for decades to sow discord in the UK and put his country in opposition to EU.

      If he dies of COVID-19 complications, I wouldn't be too concerned for him.

      9 votes
      1. Kuromantis
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        I personally think about it like this: 1: Will this affect the party/corporation/nation he runs? 2: Is there someone we can hold accountable for this? In Ailes's case it's 'no' and 'not really',...

        I personally think about it like this:

        1: Will this affect the party/corporation/nation he runs?

        2: Is there someone we can hold accountable for this?

        In Ailes's case it's 'no' and 'not really', he made FOX himself and died of a disease he had from birth.

        If Johnson dies from COVID the answers are 'it depends on us' and 'everyone who voted for him and his policies that hurt the very NHS that he's using now'

        If he dies I think we should hold it as a collective gun to every conservative's head and demand them either to support better healthcare or admit they really are that unsympathetic.

        1 vote
      2. [7]
        Loire
        Link Parent
        This aversion to death boggles my mind. Roger Ailes is one of the most evil human beings of the modern era and I don't tend to apply that term lightly. Right of the top he sexually assaulted at...

        This aversion to death boggles my mind.

        Roger Ailes is one of the most evil human beings of the modern era and I don't tend to apply that term lightly. Right of the top he sexually assaulted at least 23 people, he was an advisor to some of the most corrupt presidents in American history, he is part of the group that pushed forward the targeted racism of the Southern Strategy, he is responsible for Fox news and the moral/intelligent decline of America and adjacent Western nations as a whole. Ailes advised Bush Jr. to react with the harshest measures possible folloeing 9/11.

        He is literally the pioneer of "Our viewers are dumb lets make them dumber":

        If you have two guys on a stage and one guy says, "I have a solution to the Middle East problem," and the other guy falls in the orchestra pit, who do you think is going to be on the evening news?

        There is no "moral conundrum" concerning these people's deaths. These people have done deep damage to your life, your friends, your family, your community, your nation, your civilization and your future. So while, sure, it makes you a better person to show some empathy towards these theae people, they certainly do not deserve it and it certainly isn't stopping the massive damage they are doing.

        15 votes
        1. [3]
          ThatFanficGuy
          Link Parent
          For some people, this callousness is something to be learned, not to come by at birth. There are people with big heart out there, ready to extend their hand to everyone.

          For some people, this callousness is something to be learned, not to come by at birth. There are people with big heart out there, ready to extend their hand to everyone.

          6 votes
          1. [2]
            NaraVara
            Link Parent
            Unfortunately, for most people "everyone" isn't really everyone. Just the figures the media designates as worthy of respect. Celebrities, people in power, rich and pretty people, etc. Poor people,...

            There are people with big heart out there, ready to extend their hand to everyone.

            Unfortunately, for most people "everyone" isn't really everyone. Just the figures the media designates as worthy of respect. Celebrities, people in power, rich and pretty people, etc. Poor people, minorities, foreigners, etc. need not apply.

            2 votes
            1. ThatFanficGuy
              Link Parent
              I don't see how that's related to what I said.

              I don't see how that's related to what I said.

              4 votes
        2. [3]
          arp242
          Link Parent
          Sexually assaulting people and generally being full of shit has not made Roger Ailes my most favourite person on the planet, to put it mildly. But he's pretty far down my list of "most evil human...

          Sexually assaulting people and generally being full of shit has not made Roger Ailes my most favourite person on the planet, to put it mildly. But he's pretty far down my list of "most evil human beings of the modern era". Let's start with the Islamic terrorists who keep sex slaves and behead people for not being Muslim enough, or Boko Haram strapping bombs to 10-year old girls. Then move on to the various recent ethnic cleansing efforts, such as the Kurds by Turkey, or Rohingya in Myanmar. There are of course also the various dictatorships built on oppression, and the crime syndicates across the world.

          I've probably forgotten a bunch of things. After all this, we can maybe, perhaps, start to consider putting people like Ailes on the list. Somewhere far far down.

          Honestly, I find this kind of stuff seriously lacking in perspective.

          Besides, I'd argue that Rupert Murdoch is "more responsible" as his business model in several countries is essentially using fear as a vehicle to sell his newspapers and TV shows.

          he is responsible for Fox news and the moral/intelligent decline of America and adjacent Western nations as a whole

          This started way before Fox News; although it obviously helped ("helped"), it ties in with a rise of right-wing nonsense in the media (e.g. right-wing radio) and politics. Hillary Clinton already complained about a "vast right-wing conspiracy" in 1995, the same year as the Oklahoma bombing to protest the "tyrannical" government. As near as I can determine, this started some time in the 80s, although it probably has roots before that.

          The 80s was also when the "Satanic panic" conspiracy bullshit was at its full strength, which probably ties in to it. There are some interesting parallels between that and the current "Qanon" nonsense and the like, which is essentially just the same story in a different setting. The Satanic panic was much more mainstream, so in a way we're better off.

          Either way, it would be a mistake to blame Fox News for the entire movement. They're certainly part of it, but they aren't single-handedly responsible for "the moral/intelligent decline of America and adjacent Western nations as a whole", and they certainly didn't start it.

          5 votes
          1. [2]
            moonbathers
            Link Parent
            Boko Haram and other religious terrorists are small potatoes in terms of how much evil they can inflict upon the world compared to government-level actors. I'm not gonna claim Ailes and Fox are as...

            Boko Haram and other religious terrorists are small potatoes in terms of how much evil they can inflict upon the world compared to government-level actors. I'm not gonna claim Ailes and Fox are as evil as governments that orchestrate genocide, but I don't think you can say other people lack perspective immediately after claiming religious terrorists are worse than people that commit genocide.

            4 votes
            1. arp242
              Link Parent
              I don't really think that being full of shit and (successfully) exercising your free speech rights to convince others of your bullshit is really on the same level of "evil" as tying a bomb to a...

              I don't really think that being full of shit and (successfully) exercising your free speech rights to convince others of your bullshit is really on the same level of "evil" as tying a bomb to a young girl and sending her towards some soldiers as a suicide bombing.

              The effects effects of Ailes may be much bigger (although Boko Haram has had a profound effect on the daily lives of millions), I think "being evil" is more than just "causing bad stuff". I'm having a hard time giving a comprehensive concise description of "evil", but something like "maliciously and intentionally doing harm to others" is reasonably close, and as much as I dislike Fox News, I don't think that would be a fair label for them.

              There are many evil people who affect a comparatively small number of people; take someone like Marc Dutroux for example, who kidnapped, tortured, sexually abused, and killed children as young as 8. I'd argue he's considribly more evil than Ailes, but had a fairly small effect on society as such.

              immediately after claiming religious terrorists are worse than people that commit genocide.

              Well, that was just a top-of-the-head listing; I perhaps should have reversed the order of that 😅 Although, as outlined above, I don't think "evilness" is measured purely in the effects of actions, but is more rooted in the motivation and intent of the actors. A lot of legal systems recognize this by distinguishing between "murder", "voluntary manslaughter", "involuntary manslaughter", and "negligent homicide".

              2 votes
    2. [2]
      reese
      Link Parent
      In stories and myths, across cultural borders people are quite fond of self-disposing villains. Relatedly, see hoist by his own petard and death by irony. Whether the framing is comic or tragic,...

      In stories and myths, across cultural borders people are quite fond of self-disposing villains. Relatedly, see hoist by his own petard and death by irony. Whether the framing is comic or tragic, there's no conundrum because Boris Johnson turned himself into a real life moral lesson. The healthy response to his deliberate ignorance and the consequence is a wide range of feelings and thoughts.

      5 votes
      1. JXM
        Link Parent
        Interesting. I tend to agree with what you’re saying.

        Interesting. I tend to agree with what you’re saying.

        1 vote
    3. nothis
      Link Parent
      Honestly, I'm not a god. If I had a say in whether he lives or dies, I'd of course save his life, I'm not a monster. But I don't believe in prayers, his fate is what it is and he's one of...

      Honestly, I'm not a god. If I had a say in whether he lives or dies, I'd of course save his life, I'm not a monster. But I don't believe in prayers, his fate is what it is and he's one of thousands (or rather, millions) of people suffering worldwide. I can't really feel for all of them. His only connection to me is that he's a politician who promoted sacrificing the old and weak to protect the economy. If he truly dies, it's hard for me to feel sorry for him. Maybe if he dies, that's the drastic story the world needs to realize these deaths aren't just a statistic.

      3 votes
  3. [4]
    JakeTheDog
    Link
    So, uh, I guess he's contributing to herd immunity? Good sport he is. I wonder what he thinks about it as a large scale strategy.

    So, uh, I guess he's contributing to herd immunity? Good sport he is. I wonder what he thinks about it as a large scale strategy.

    7 votes
    1. [3]
      AugustusFerdinand
      Link Parent
      He's probably thinking of more reasons to cut/privatize NHS every time his jello is later than he'd like it to be.

      He's probably thinking of more reasons to cut/privatize NHS every time his jello is later than he'd like it to be.

      4 votes
      1. [2]
        JoylessAubergine
        Link Parent
        He's probably hoping he isnt one of the 10% who die after hospitalisation and wondering whether he will see his unborn kid.

        He's probably hoping he isnt one of the 10% who die after hospitalisation and wondering whether he will see his unborn kid.

        3 votes
        1. babypuncher
          Link Parent
          He should have thought about that before saying the virus wasn't a big deal and shaking peoples hands in a hospital full of coronavirus patients.

          He should have thought about that before saying the virus wasn't a big deal and shaking peoples hands in a hospital full of coronavirus patients.

          8 votes
  4. [2]
    Comment removed by site admin
    Link
    1. Deimos
      Link Parent
      Don't keep posting comments like this.

      Don't keep posting comments like this.

      1 vote