Trump saving the Liberal's Canadian bacon may be the silver lining on his reelection. Here's hoping Mark Carney pulls the party together. His messaging so far has really channelled Canadian's...
Trump saving the Liberal's Canadian bacon may be the silver lining on his reelection. Here's hoping Mark Carney pulls the party together. His messaging so far has really channelled Canadian's patriotism and anger while PP is still running the same outdated attack lines he was using last year.
Er, no he's not. He's read the room and his Flag Day speech last week was the very strong indication that he knows that Trump's threats are now top of mind for Canada. He's still got housing,...
Er, no he's not. He's read the room and his Flag Day speech last week was the very strong indication that he knows that Trump's threats are now top of mind for Canada.
He's still got housing, immigration, decreasing drug use and violence, strengthening the military, freeing up internal trade in mind, but countering Trumps threats is now job #1.
It was a 75 minute speech so I wont copy and paste, but its well worth a read. Anyone who thinks he's in any way in alignment with Trump hasn't listened to what he's actually said: https://www.conservative.ca/canada-first-speech-le-discours-le-canada-dabord/
Here's just a short section that makes it clear what his position is toward Trump:
"Sometimes it takes a threat to remind us of what we have and what could become. The unjustified tariff threats of President Donald Trump and threats to turn us into the 51st state have united our people to defend the country we love.
We must respond with strength.
And strength means leverage.
America has leverage. But WE have leverage.
And I will use it.
Retaliation is only the beginning. Yes, we will need to retaliate. If they put tariffs on our steel and aluminum, I will tariff their steel and aluminum. If he hits us with generalized tariffs, we’ll respond dollar for dollar–carefully targeting American goods we don’t need, can produce ourselves or buy from others to maximize impact on the Americans and minimize it on ourselves."
I'm aware that PP is shifting to copy more of the Liberal's popular rhetoric, but I just can't hear him putting his heart into it. His whole angle is criticising Canada, rightfully so in many...
I'm aware that PP is shifting to copy more of the Liberal's popular rhetoric, but I just can't hear him putting his heart into it. His whole angle is criticising Canada, rightfully so in many cases, but that's not a very popular view when nationalism is running high.
It's possible the pendulum will swing again before the election, but so far polling shows his "Canada First" messaging has far too many parallels to "America First". I'm fully aware that his policy proposals are different from the MAGA movement south of the border. Many Canucks follow US news closer than Canadian happenings, so it's unsurprising Conservatives are facing headwinds.
For a Conservative politician that's successfully channelling popular anger right now, I'd look at Doug Ford. As much as I hate his urban policies, he's doing and saying all the right things to combat Trump as Ontario's Premier.
That seems pretty accurate. Poilievre is caught in the predicament of having his message resonate very strongly.for the last year and then Trump coming along and changing Canada's priorities in a...
That seems pretty accurate. Poilievre is caught in the predicament of having his message resonate very strongly.for the last year and then Trump coming along and changing Canada's priorities in a hurry. He's been saying Trudeau and the Carbon Tax need to go and sure enough, Trudeau is leaving and the Carbon Tax has lost support even from the Liberals who have been trumpeting it as a key policy for nearly a decade. So as far as effecitveness, its hard to say his messaging hasn't gotten through.
But I agree that its hard to swing from "Canada is broken" to "Canada First" without some cynicism from the electorate, especially when it sounds similar to Trump's messaging. Is it copying, or is he fighting fire with fire?
Its going to be very interesting to see how this shakes out. If anything I see the NDP are losing support big time, and left leaning voters are throwing all their support behind Carney. Which has got to frustrate the hell out of Freeland, as she barely gets noticed anymore. Not sure why the media seems to have coronated Carney as Liberal leader already.
Carney has been the frontrunner for a while. His status as a self-proclaimed outsider is also helpful when many would-be Liberal voters are done with the current party. It's helpful to have a...
Carney has been the frontrunner for a while. His status as a self-proclaimed outsider is also helpful when many would-be Liberal voters are done with the current party. It's helpful to have a go-to person to associate with a party in our modern age of national media.
I am disappointed with the loss of support for the carbon tax since the numbers show it's a net-positive for most Canadians and effectively fights climate change. It's yet another sign that voters care more about low prices than climate change....
I guess we’ve been trying to figure out why trump has been threatening Canada: He’s trolling to distract from the unpopular and unconstitutional power grab he’s doing He’s working in Putin’s...
I guess we’ve been trying to figure out why trump has been threatening Canada:
He’s trolling to distract from the unpopular and unconstitutional power grab he’s doing
He’s working in Putin’s interest to normalize countries taking over other countries. This covers his comments about Greenland and Panama.
He’s testing limits of resistance to his power
He’s intentionally trying to damage the reputation and soft power of the United States for multiple reasons including “he profits from it” and “he’s a Russian asset” (overlaps with the Pro-Putin reason)
Unfortunately I can't find the interview, but I think it's easiest to understand Trump's expansionism as something like a return to Continentalism. While Canadian ideas of continentalism have...
Unfortunately I can't find the interview, but I think it's easiest to understand Trump's expansionism as something like a return to Continentalism. While Canadian ideas of continentalism have historically been more like EU ideals of regional free-trade and unrestricted investment, the oooold American view of 19th century Continentalism eventually became Manifest Destiny. Trump is going back to those outdated zero-sum politics that view control over regional territory and resources as a strong country's right and providence. What makes a country strong and respectable are shows of force and expansion. Growing the economy and improving welfare doesn't hit the same as painting a map...
We can see similar philosophy at play with Trump's mineral deal offer in Ukraine. You could also call it neocolonialism if you want, but direct territorial expansion and annexation are very different from 20th century colonialism. Maybe it comes from Trump's old real estate mindset where getting rights to a property is the most straightforward way to profit, but, as his record shows, he has always been a terrible, short-sighted businessman.
I've been thinking a lot about this too. Let's not forget: He hates Trudeau and wanted petty revenge He wants our resources He's incapable of making any kind of mutually beneficial deal. There...
I've been thinking a lot about this too. Let's not forget:
He hates Trudeau and wanted petty revenge
He wants our resources
He's incapable of making any kind of mutually beneficial deal. There always has to be a winner and a loser
I actually think he respects Putin and wants to be the same. Whether he's an asset or not, I think he doesn't care at all about democracy, diplomacy and allies other than what he can get out of them. He's a narcissist and obsessed with being seen as a winner. I think he's picking a fight with Canada just to be a bully and see what he can get from it.
And Trudeau made him look silly because he countered his stupid power-move handshake. I know all this sounds ridiculous, but I bet Trump really is that insecure and petty.
And Trudeau made him look silly because he countered his stupid power-move handshake. I know all this sounds ridiculous, but I bet Trump really is that insecure and petty.
Except according to today's news, someone had to tell him that Trudeau already decided to step down weeks ago. We're in the middle of a campaign to replace him which will be followed shortly by a...
Except according to today's news, someone had to tell him that Trudeau already decided to step down weeks ago. We're in the middle of a campaign to replace him which will be followed shortly by a national election. Which led to him calling Trudeau a loser. Im no fan of Trudeau, but where the heck is the statesmanship? If Trudeau were to call Trump a loser, he'd declare immediate tariffs on everything we sell south, instead of just threatening to do so.
Statesmanship? Trump? First term there was a fair amount of buffering because Mr Trump hired people with experience in government. This time there is a clear repudiation of business as usual and...
Statesmanship? Trump?
First term there was a fair amount of buffering because Mr Trump hired people with experience in government.
This time there is a clear repudiation of business as usual and that includes diplomacy or lack thereof.
This government disrespects experts, scientists, scholars. Why would they listen to diplomats?
And Trump personally, well. He is at minimum a bully.
Politically he admires president's Jackson and McKinley. He is noteworthy for publicly praising not just Putin but the leader of North Korea.
If you are curious enough, there are many of his public speeches and rallies that can be viewed.
There is a biography of his life before 2016 called Plaintiff in Chief. His relative Mary Trump has given public interviews about his personality.
Yes agreed the basic explanation for his actions is that he’s mentally ill. He probably saw those pictures of Melania gazing lovingly at Trudeau and that’s enough.
Yes agreed the basic explanation for his actions is that he’s mentally ill. He probably saw those pictures of Melania gazing lovingly at Trudeau and that’s enough.
Oh man, if you asked most western democracies if they thought America was a dumpster fire, that is a very different question on if America is now the enemy.
Oh man, if you asked most western democracies if they thought America was a dumpster fire, that is a very different question on if America is now the enemy.
When I briefly visited Detroit we were considering briefly going across the border, just so I could get in Canada for a brief moment. That was absolutely normal. The fact that now hostility has...
When I briefly visited Detroit we were considering briefly going across the border, just so I could get in Canada for a brief moment. That was absolutely normal.
The fact that now hostility has reached this level is absolutely insane.
We don't hate Americans, we hate Trump and what he is representing. I should also add to the main discussion that my wife (as the main person who does grocery shopping and a retail store owner) is...
We don't hate Americans, we hate Trump and what he is representing.
I should also add to the main discussion that my wife (as the main person who does grocery shopping and a retail store owner) is doing what she can to switch to Canadian brands in both our personal lives and in her business. We can't swap brands for everything though.
Not me, I hate them -- or at least a very large number of them. There are, I assume, good ones too /s, but I cannot discredit the huge number of assholes voting again and again for the party that...
We don't hate Americans,
Not me, I hate them -- or at least a very large number of them.
There are, I assume, good ones too /s, but I cannot discredit the huge number of assholes voting again and again for the party that openly espouses hatred and misery as its main objective.
Same goes for our fellow Canadians too, and hell, a significant chunk are trump supporters too (or at least they were, before they realized the violence could be against them too, who would have guessed).
I feel the same way and I’m an American. Since the election I’ve lost a lot of faith in my countrymen. I guess a little over 1/3 of them are fascists or incredibly susceptible to the dumbest and...
I feel the same way and I’m an American. Since the election I’ve lost a lot of faith in my countrymen. I guess a little over 1/3 of them are fascists or incredibly susceptible to the dumbest and most obvious propaganda. And another 1/3 can’t even be bothered to vote to keep an obvious criminal rapist traitor out of the White House.
If I see any display of patriotism, displaying of the flag, any of that stuff actually just makes me assume the person is a complete idiot. I’m certainly not celebrating Independence Day this summer.
I think it's a mistake to abandon American patriotism to MAGA. Ultimately, the movement is a cult of personality around Trump. There are more MAGA than American flags at his rallies. Left wing...
I think it's a mistake to abandon American patriotism to MAGA. Ultimately, the movement is a cult of personality around Trump. There are more MAGA than American flags at his rallies.
Left wing groups have the potential to swing median voters by painting the GOP as un-American and not living up to American ideals. Huge numbers of citizens, especially immigrants, vote for Republicans for "patriotism" reasons which left leaning groups can and should co-opt.
Martin Luther King and other civil rights activists successfully appealed to patriotism when fighting for equal rights, so there's plenty of historical precedent.
"I criticize America because I love her. I want her to stand as a moral example to the world."
- MLK Jr.
Thanks buddy for the positive comment. I'm just very frustrated. What other people see as patriotism I see as shallow jingoism and I'm very disappointed that so many people are easily manipulated.
Thanks buddy for the positive comment. I'm just very frustrated.
What other people see as patriotism I see as shallow jingoism and I'm very disappointed that so many people are easily manipulated.
There was some good pro-diversity, American propaganda produced during WW2: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/superman-1950-poster-diversity/ America's national soul has always been malleable....
America's national soul has always been malleable. Patriotism can definitely veer into Jingoism, but it's worth remembering America is one of the most successful, diverse nations in the world by many metrics. Patriotism and national pride can do a lot to unify diverse groups.
Can you really blame them? If a country acted towards us in the same way that we're acting towards Canada, we'd feel the exact same way. Our national leadership certainly isn't treating them like...
Can you really blame them? If a country acted towards us in the same way that we're acting towards Canada, we'd feel the exact same way. Our national leadership certainly isn't treating them like our friends :(
I’m a dual-citizen with Canada. I should probably figure out how to help sponsor my partner to move there with me… don’t really wanna stay here in Texas
I’m a dual-citizen with Canada. I should probably figure out how to help sponsor my partner to move there with me… don’t really wanna stay here in Texas
Do it immediately. When shit hits the fan it's too late, and neither of us know what it will look like when civil unrest spirals. Don't procrastinate on your safety.
Do it immediately. When shit hits the fan it's too late, and neither of us know what it will look like when civil unrest spirals.
I’m now at the stage where I wonder if I should expend my privileges (including being alive) fighting for what’s right if need be. But I could flee. It’s a tough call.
I’m now at the stage where I wonder if I should expend my privileges (including being alive) fighting for what’s right if need be. But I could flee. It’s a tough call.
Yeah, I don't think anyone can tell you what is the right move for you. I do think it's wise to stock up on long-term essentials such as canned food, detergent, medication etc. as well as...
Yeah, I don't think anyone can tell you what is the right move for you. I do think it's wise to stock up on long-term essentials such as canned food, detergent, medication etc. as well as preparing an emergency exit. But I'm not going to judge any other actions since well, domestic instability is so complex that it's personal very quickly and everyone has a very different life.
Tariffs on aluminum are predicted to raise the price of canned food here in the US. In our family we are filling our freezer and picking up a large sack of rice.
Tariffs on aluminum are predicted to raise the price of canned food here in the US.
In our family we are filling our freezer and picking up a large sack of rice.
Good. Also stock up on detergent. Should shit really hit the fan you'll need it for everything from clothes to dishes, and it won't be in stock if really gets bad.
Good. Also stock up on detergent. Should shit really hit the fan you'll need it for everything from clothes to dishes, and it won't be in stock if really gets bad.
Trump saving the Liberal's Canadian bacon may be the silver lining on his reelection. Here's hoping Mark Carney pulls the party together. His messaging so far has really channelled Canadian's patriotism and anger while PP is still running the same outdated attack lines he was using last year.
Er, no he's not. He's read the room and his Flag Day speech last week was the very strong indication that he knows that Trump's threats are now top of mind for Canada.
He's still got housing, immigration, decreasing drug use and violence, strengthening the military, freeing up internal trade in mind, but countering Trumps threats is now job #1.
It was a 75 minute speech so I wont copy and paste, but its well worth a read. Anyone who thinks he's in any way in alignment with Trump hasn't listened to what he's actually said: https://www.conservative.ca/canada-first-speech-le-discours-le-canada-dabord/
Here's just a short section that makes it clear what his position is toward Trump:
"Sometimes it takes a threat to remind us of what we have and what could become. The unjustified tariff threats of President Donald Trump and threats to turn us into the 51st state have united our people to defend the country we love.
We must respond with strength.
And strength means leverage.
America has leverage. But WE have leverage.
And I will use it.
Retaliation is only the beginning. Yes, we will need to retaliate. If they put tariffs on our steel and aluminum, I will tariff their steel and aluminum. If he hits us with generalized tariffs, we’ll respond dollar for dollar–carefully targeting American goods we don’t need, can produce ourselves or buy from others to maximize impact on the Americans and minimize it on ourselves."
I'm aware that PP is shifting to copy more of the Liberal's popular rhetoric, but I just can't hear him putting his heart into it. His whole angle is criticising Canada, rightfully so in many cases, but that's not a very popular view when nationalism is running high.
It's possible the pendulum will swing again before the election, but so far polling shows his "Canada First" messaging has far too many parallels to "America First". I'm fully aware that his policy proposals are different from the MAGA movement south of the border. Many Canucks follow US news closer than Canadian happenings, so it's unsurprising Conservatives are facing headwinds.
For a Conservative politician that's successfully channelling popular anger right now, I'd look at Doug Ford. As much as I hate his urban policies, he's doing and saying all the right things to combat Trump as Ontario's Premier.
That seems pretty accurate. Poilievre is caught in the predicament of having his message resonate very strongly.for the last year and then Trump coming along and changing Canada's priorities in a hurry. He's been saying Trudeau and the Carbon Tax need to go and sure enough, Trudeau is leaving and the Carbon Tax has lost support even from the Liberals who have been trumpeting it as a key policy for nearly a decade. So as far as effecitveness, its hard to say his messaging hasn't gotten through.
But I agree that its hard to swing from "Canada is broken" to "Canada First" without some cynicism from the electorate, especially when it sounds similar to Trump's messaging. Is it copying, or is he fighting fire with fire?
Its going to be very interesting to see how this shakes out. If anything I see the NDP are losing support big time, and left leaning voters are throwing all their support behind Carney. Which has got to frustrate the hell out of Freeland, as she barely gets noticed anymore. Not sure why the media seems to have coronated Carney as Liberal leader already.
Carney has been the frontrunner for a while. His status as a self-proclaimed outsider is also helpful when many would-be Liberal voters are done with the current party. It's helpful to have a go-to person to associate with a party in our modern age of national media.
I am disappointed with the loss of support for the carbon tax since the numbers show it's a net-positive for most Canadians and effectively fights climate change. It's yet another sign that voters care more about low prices than climate change....
I guess we’ve been trying to figure out why trump has been threatening Canada:
Unfortunately I can't find the interview, but I think it's easiest to understand Trump's expansionism as something like a return to Continentalism. While Canadian ideas of continentalism have historically been more like EU ideals of regional free-trade and unrestricted investment, the oooold American view of 19th century Continentalism eventually became Manifest Destiny. Trump is going back to those outdated zero-sum politics that view control over regional territory and resources as a strong country's right and providence. What makes a country strong and respectable are shows of force and expansion. Growing the economy and improving welfare doesn't hit the same as painting a map...
We can see similar philosophy at play with Trump's mineral deal offer in Ukraine. You could also call it neocolonialism if you want, but direct territorial expansion and annexation are very different from 20th century colonialism. Maybe it comes from Trump's old real estate mindset where getting rights to a property is the most straightforward way to profit, but, as his record shows, he has always been a terrible, short-sighted businessman.
I've been thinking a lot about this too. Let's not forget:
I actually think he respects Putin and wants to be the same. Whether he's an asset or not, I think he doesn't care at all about democracy, diplomacy and allies other than what he can get out of them. He's a narcissist and obsessed with being seen as a winner. I think he's picking a fight with Canada just to be a bully and see what he can get from it.
He fears his marriage is threatened by Trudeau
And Trudeau made him look silly because he countered his stupid power-move handshake. I know all this sounds ridiculous, but I bet Trump really is that insecure and petty.
Except according to today's news, someone had to tell him that Trudeau already decided to step down weeks ago. We're in the middle of a campaign to replace him which will be followed shortly by a national election. Which led to him calling Trudeau a loser. Im no fan of Trudeau, but where the heck is the statesmanship? If Trudeau were to call Trump a loser, he'd declare immediate tariffs on everything we sell south, instead of just threatening to do so.
Statesmanship? Trump?
First term there was a fair amount of buffering because Mr Trump hired people with experience in government.
This time there is a clear repudiation of business as usual and that includes diplomacy or lack thereof.
This government disrespects experts, scientists, scholars. Why would they listen to diplomats?
And Trump personally, well. He is at minimum a bully.
Politically he admires president's Jackson and McKinley. He is noteworthy for publicly praising not just Putin but the leader of North Korea.
If you are curious enough, there are many of his public speeches and rallies that can be viewed.
There is a biography of his life before 2016 called Plaintiff in Chief. His relative Mary Trump has given public interviews about his personality.
Yes agreed the basic explanation for his actions is that he’s mentally ill. He probably saw those pictures of Melania gazing lovingly at Trudeau and that’s enough.
I think he's just shaking down whoever he thinks he has the most leverage over.
Those are rookie numbers.
Half of Americans think other Americans are the enemy.
Sad but true! It's amazing that other countries see the USA as anything else but a huge dumpster fire.
Oh man, if you asked most western democracies if they thought America was a dumpster fire, that is a very different question on if America is now the enemy.
When I briefly visited Detroit we were considering briefly going across the border, just so I could get in Canada for a brief moment. That was absolutely normal.
The fact that now hostility has reached this level is absolutely insane.
We don't hate Americans, we hate Trump and what he is representing.
I should also add to the main discussion that my wife (as the main person who does grocery shopping and a retail store owner) is doing what she can to switch to Canadian brands in both our personal lives and in her business. We can't swap brands for everything though.
Not me, I hate them -- or at least a very large number of them.
There are, I assume, good ones too /s, but I cannot discredit the huge number of assholes voting again and again for the party that openly espouses hatred and misery as its main objective.
Same goes for our fellow Canadians too, and hell, a significant chunk are trump supporters too (or at least they were, before they realized the violence could be against them too, who would have guessed).
I feel the same way and I’m an American. Since the election I’ve lost a lot of faith in my countrymen. I guess a little over 1/3 of them are fascists or incredibly susceptible to the dumbest and most obvious propaganda. And another 1/3 can’t even be bothered to vote to keep an obvious criminal rapist traitor out of the White House.
If I see any display of patriotism, displaying of the flag, any of that stuff actually just makes me assume the person is a complete idiot. I’m certainly not celebrating Independence Day this summer.
I think it's a mistake to abandon American patriotism to MAGA. Ultimately, the movement is a cult of personality around Trump. There are more MAGA than American flags at his rallies.
Left wing groups have the potential to swing median voters by painting the GOP as un-American and not living up to American ideals. Huge numbers of citizens, especially immigrants, vote for Republicans for "patriotism" reasons which left leaning groups can and should co-opt.
Martin Luther King and other civil rights activists successfully appealed to patriotism when fighting for equal rights, so there's plenty of historical precedent.
Thanks buddy for the positive comment. I'm just very frustrated.
What other people see as patriotism I see as shallow jingoism and I'm very disappointed that so many people are easily manipulated.
There was some good pro-diversity, American propaganda produced during WW2: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/superman-1950-poster-diversity/
America's national soul has always been malleable. Patriotism can definitely veer into Jingoism, but it's worth remembering America is one of the most successful, diverse nations in the world by many metrics. Patriotism and national pride can do a lot to unify diverse groups.
Rational and correct reaction to a country attempting to annex you using economic coercion and not ruling out force.
Can you really blame them? If a country acted towards us in the same way that we're acting towards Canada, we'd feel the exact same way. Our national leadership certainly isn't treating them like our friends :(
I’m a dual-citizen with Canada. I should probably figure out how to help sponsor my partner to move there with me… don’t really wanna stay here in Texas
Do it immediately. When shit hits the fan it's too late, and neither of us know what it will look like when civil unrest spirals.
Don't procrastinate on your safety.
I’m now at the stage where I wonder if I should expend my privileges (including being alive) fighting for what’s right if need be. But I could flee. It’s a tough call.
Yeah, I don't think anyone can tell you what is the right move for you. I do think it's wise to stock up on long-term essentials such as canned food, detergent, medication etc. as well as preparing an emergency exit. But I'm not going to judge any other actions since well, domestic instability is so complex that it's personal very quickly and everyone has a very different life.
Take care.
Tariffs on aluminum are predicted to raise the price of canned food here in the US.
In our family we are filling our freezer and picking up a large sack of rice.
Good. Also stock up on detergent. Should shit really hit the fan you'll need it for everything from clothes to dishes, and it won't be in stock if really gets bad.
But....I love Canadians.