As a longtime (now former) mod of a couple of large (about 2M subs when I deleted my accounts last month) amateur/Original Content (OC)/GoneWild (GW) style porn/NSFW subs on reddit and with...
Exemplary
As a longtime (now former) mod of a couple of large (about 2M subs when I deleted my accounts last month) amateur/Original Content (OC)/GoneWild (GW) style porn/NSFW subs on reddit and with friends I've made along the way that are online sex workers, some insights and addressing other comments:
There is a lot of OnlyFans mentioning in here. It's worth noting that while the prevalence of online sex work has exploded, it is far from universal for someone that is posting their nudes online. I had an flair based ID system set in my subs to indicate pure amateur and sex workers, roughly 30% were sex workers. That said, the sex workers posted more often as posts were a way of advertising and every business wants to advertise as much as possible, especially if it's free.
Sex workers, in my experience, are almost exclusively (at least presenting as) straight women. My male and LGBT centric subs had so few sex workers as to be practically non-existent.
Onlyfans isn't a replacement for Tumblr or Reddit, it's a marketplace without an algorithm. It's just a place to sell your wares (if they have coin), you could be the best amateur sex worker on the planet, but creating an OF isn't going to get you a single subscriber. You have to advertise and that is where Tumblr/Reddit (and skirting the rules on Instagram, Snapchat, Twitch, Twitter, etc.) comes in.
Content creators/sex workers largely aren't tech literate enough and/or have the desire to create their own platform, 99.9% just want a place to post and it needs to be as user friendly as possible. There were daily mod messages in my NSFW subs asking how to post, on reddit, where it is extremely easy to do so. Add in that there is a lot of envy and competition between sex workers and you get huge numbers of people that do not want to work with each other even for the betterment of all.
Where it will go next is a good question that I do not have the answer to. If I did, I'd create it so that I would be the one making money off of it. Does that new copycat twitter that facebook is rolling out allow porn?
They tried. Very early on, sex workers created a Mastodon instance of their own. In 2018, shortly after it was founded, it was almost killed: Source:...
Content creators/sex workers largely aren't tech literate enough and/or have the desire to create their own platform
They tried. Very early on, sex workers created a Mastodon instance of their own. In 2018, shortly after it was founded, it was almost killed:
Around 3PM ET on April 17th, Switter — a social media space for sex workers — went offline. Its disappearance, however temporary, indicated the FOSTA-driven loss of yet another haven for sex workers, this time in the form of content distribution network Cloudflare. According to Switter founder Assembly Four, the company received an email from Cloudflare’s legal department indicating that it would be terminating its service due to terms of service violations.
A social media platform for sex workers with close to half a million users globally has shut down over legal concerns regarding online safety laws and the Australian government’s social media defamation legislation.
Switter, which runs on Twitter-replica Mastodon, was set up by an Australian collective of sex workers and technologists, Assembly Four, in 2018 in response to the anti-sex trafficking legislation known as Sesta/Fosta in the United States leading to a number of sites like Backpage shutting down, or platforms banning sex work content.
It will likely need to be mods of nsfw subs who suggest a new home like lemmynsfw.com and link to a low-friction guide to get started. Native phone and web apps are coming out soon for Lemmy...
It will likely need to be mods of nsfw subs who suggest a new home like lemmynsfw.com and link to a low-friction guide to get started. Native phone and web apps are coming out soon for Lemmy overall, and once that happens the "low-friction" part should be easier. People in it just for the nsfw can stay within lemmynsfw, or they can post on federated instances like lemmy.world. As you probably know best of all, Reddit lately seemed to have plenty of sex workers who were--surprise, surprise--regular people who posted elsewhere as well, and I'm sure that helps with advertising. My money is definitely on that particular Lemmy instance if no one launches a new service.
Won't help much, people won't read it. They didn't back on reddit, hell most of the newcomers here don't read the documentation. Same with mobile apps, had over 90% mobile stats in my subs, same...
It will likely need to be mods of nsfw subs who suggest a new home like lemmynsfw.com and link to a low-friction guide to get started. Native phone and web apps are coming out soon for Lemmy overall, and once that happens the "low-friction" part should be easier.
Won't help much, people won't read it. They didn't back on reddit, hell most of the newcomers here don't read the documentation. Same with mobile apps, had over 90% mobile stats in my subs, same questions still asked about how to make a post.
People in it just for the nsfw can stay within lemmynsfw, or they can post on federated instances like lemmy.world. As you probably know best of all, Reddit lately seemed to have plenty of sex workers who were--surprise, surprise--regular people who posted elsewhere as well, and I'm sure that helps with advertising. My money is definitely on that particular Lemmy instance if no one launches a new service.
Yeah, they post elsewhere, but it's skirting rules elsewhere while reddit pretty much allowed them to post whatever they wanted.
People's view on the Tumblr fiasco is very limited. Yahoo didn't screw up anything. Payment processors were threatening to stop allowing any transactions and Apple straight up removed them from...
People's view on the Tumblr fiasco is very limited. Yahoo didn't screw up anything. Payment processors were threatening to stop allowing any transactions and Apple straight up removed them from the App Store. Both because of porn. Yahoo didn't ruin Tumblr by banning the porn, they saved it. It's the only reason Tumblr still exists. The only screw up here is that they overpaid for a social network that was mostly porn and was never profitable.
About where the amateur porn will go - the answer is porn websites, especially ones like OnlyFans that offer pay-gates. I think performers will gather audiences on other platforms with SFW content (like gaming on twitch for example) and then funnel the simps towards a paid platform where their porn is (like OF)
I honestly do not understand why credit card processors seem to have such issues with porn. It’s not like taking money from porn sites is going to give them bad marketing or something; most of the...
I honestly do not understand why credit card processors seem to have such issues with porn.
It’s not like taking money from porn sites is going to give them bad marketing or something; most of the time credit card processors are completely transparent. I don’t know who the credit card processors for Walmart is nor do I care to find out. If they wanted to keep their name out of it, then lord knows that there are tons of ways that corporations can keep secrets. It seems like a lot of money to reject.
The payment processors shy away from anything that has a higher proportion of chargebacks, since those cost the processors money. Anything sex-related gets a lot of chargebacks, probably due to...
The payment processors shy away from anything that has a higher proportion of chargebacks, since those cost the processors money. Anything sex-related gets a lot of chargebacks, probably due to buys trying to cover their tracks. ('Honestly, I never bought that - it must be a scammer.')
I definitely agree with this - it's not a condemnation of your cards if people use it to buy porn, it just means people buy porn. Card companies have no responsibility to refuse any sort of...
I definitely agree with this - it's not a condemnation of your cards if people use it to buy porn, it just means people buy porn.
Card companies have no responsibility to refuse any sort of transactions that customers make as far as I know, and it's not like they themselves are the ones choosing to buy it. Banks don't give a shit if the money they lend goes to any number of places, why do card companies care how their cards are used?
It's also not like they need PR - it's a credit card.
I don't understand why they're completely inconsistent. One can use cards on OnlyFans, or clip sites, or all sorts of subscription services without an issue...
I don't understand why they're completely inconsistent. One can use cards on OnlyFans, or clip sites, or all sorts of subscription services without an issue...
The reason Onlyfans flirted with the idea of banning sexually explicit content was precisely because of credit processors threatening to abandon them. Credit processors don't like sexually...
The reason Onlyfans flirted with the idea of banning sexually explicit content was precisely because of credit processors threatening to abandon them. Credit processors don't like sexually explicit content because people buy it and then try to chargeback when post-nut clarity descends.
Yeah, I don't disagree but that doesn't address my post at all- that it is inconsistently decided, it appears, and even a site that considers dropping cards... then doesn't? they somehow worked it...
Yeah, I don't disagree but that doesn't address my post at all- that it is inconsistently decided, it appears, and even a site that considers dropping cards... then doesn't? they somehow worked it out, and many other adult sites accept cards too.
So what changed, or didn't, or why is it a problem for some sites and not others? Or why can it be a problem, then all of a sudden not be a problem? The inconsistency is what I was asking about.
ManyVids has always accepted cards. Bellesa seems to have always accepted cards. I could name many other sites, but let's just say I've been a member of maybe 5-10 sites, and all have taken cards. Some of them have QUITE stringent anti-fraud measures in place- maybe that helps, idk
I'll tell ya where. Literally anywhere. Where there is porn there is userbase. There are enough open source projects to glue together what's essentially a cloud storage with a user frontend. If...
I'll tell ya where. Literally anywhere. Where there is porn there is userbase. There are enough open source projects to glue together what's essentially a cloud storage with a user frontend. If the content creators are smart they'd band together and create their own website.
This is true for pretty much the whole web. We could run alternatives for Facebook, Instagram and Twitter cooperatively. But this needs a lot of organisation and you get multiple splinter groups...
This is true for pretty much the whole web. We could run alternatives for Facebook, Instagram and Twitter cooperatively. But this needs a lot of organisation and you get multiple splinter groups every time there is disagreement over details, which happens all the time. That means efforts are duplicated and users don't know where to go.
Just look at all the reddit alternatives that have been popping up over the last years. Technically, they could all replace reddit, but instead we now have content spread over too many half-baked side projects.
It'll go to Lemmy. There's already lemmynsfw as an instance and it's slowly loading up with communities, nobody who is on that instance will care in any way if other instances don't federate with it.
It'll go to Lemmy.
There's already lemmynsfw as an instance and it's slowly loading up with communities, nobody who is on that instance will care in any way if other instances don't federate with it.
On OnlyFans there is no way to discover new creators, and that is by design. No recommendation algorithm. There is a search box but it is only for finding creators whose names you already know (I...
On OnlyFans there is no way to discover new creators, and that is by design. No recommendation algorithm. There is a search box but it is only for finding creators whose names you already know (I assume this is for privacy reasons). So OF models post on places like Reddit or Twitter to promote themselves and try to redirect viewers to their OF profile.
Porn will just go to whatever social network is biggest at the time even if it isn't allowed, the content creators will just balance of the edge of the rules seeing how far they can push it...
Porn will just go to whatever social network is biggest at the time even if it isn't allowed, the content creators will just balance of the edge of the rules seeing how far they can push it without getting banned. Look at the twitch hot tub streamers for a perfect example of this. If you look at Tiktok, there's plenty of videos which are pushing the terms of service to the limit just to redirect people to their Instagram which lets them link their Onlyfans pages. They use code words and emojis to get around the key word filter so it is still discoverable for anyone looking.
Reddit isn't going anywhere for a while, it's lost some of it's userbase over the past month, and I'd argue it's lost plenty of "high quality" users who post good content and discussions but this will have no impact on the porn. These "high quality" users leaving are not going to affect porn bots and Onlyfans creators spamming their content to 50 different subreddits trying to get anyone to click. Realistically casual users could not care less about what's happening to Reddit, and they will stay there until it shuts down which means porn will have a safe place there indefinitely.
I don’t think the issue for amateur porn on reddit is that reddit is dying but that reddit seems to be taking slow steps to removing it. First it was removed from /r/all (understandable), now the...
I don’t think the issue for amateur porn on reddit is that reddit is dying but that reddit seems to be taking slow steps to removing it. First it was removed from /r/all (understandable), now the third party apps that still exist are barred from showing sexually explicit nsfw content (as of yesterday), and people, like me personally, think that reddit is going to continue “cleaning up” further in advance of the IPO.
I really just hope it goes somewhere that can easily be blocked. One of the worst aspects of the internet for me today is that generic, algorithmic platforms which feature things like...
I really just hope it goes somewhere that can easily be blocked. One of the worst aspects of the internet for me today is that generic, algorithmic platforms which feature things like reposting/boosting can result in a user being shown pornographic and porn-adjacent content against their will.
It seems like on Lemmy all the NSFW might be concentrated on NSFW-specific instances, which should hopefully make it easier to filter and block. I also like that on the Fediverse in general there is a good culture of marking things as NSFW.
My initial experience on Threads was quite soured by this; all the stuff about the nature of a firehose-only feed aside, the firehose was quickly full of porn-adjacent images and videos and I quickly got tired of trying to mute accounts every time something came up.
Depends on if you mean free or not. Something like ManyVids and other clips sites have tons of amateur stuff (and sure some non-Amateur stuff mixed in, that always happens). A lot of OF/Fansly...
Depends on if you mean free or not. Something like ManyVids and other clips sites have tons of amateur stuff (and sure some non-Amateur stuff mixed in, that always happens). A lot of OF/Fansly creators also sell clips in places like that- and those clips sites tend to have better discovery mechanisms / advanced search whereas that's a big thing missing from OF. They also typically allow downloading / keeping content because you're buying the content directly, whereas with OF you cannot do that if you want, because the whole point is paying a subscription for everything but it being walled into only being viewable via your OF account. I like this idea of paying creators directly for content and I've tried to move towards that in my consumption of this type of content, as sex workers should be paid.
I don't know what process creators have to go through to host content on various sites like these but my assumption is that there is some kind of vetting / moderation layer that helps prevent illegal content from being posted. My assumption is that big sites like this would have resources to do more than other platforms that aren't dedicated to that content (like a subreddit or Tumblr blog...). Allowing user submitted NSFW content always seems like a big danger if there isn't adequate moderation in place.
As a longtime (now former) mod of a couple of large (about 2M subs when I deleted my accounts last month) amateur/Original Content (OC)/GoneWild (GW) style porn/NSFW subs on reddit and with friends I've made along the way that are online sex workers, some insights and addressing other comments:
Where it will go next is a good question that I do not have the answer to. If I did, I'd create it so that I would be the one making money off of it. Does that new copycat twitter that facebook is rolling out allow porn?
They tried. Very early on, sex workers created a Mastodon instance of their own. In 2018, shortly after it was founded, it was almost killed:
Source: https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/19/17256370/switter-cloudflare-sex-workers-banned
In 2022 it shut down for good:
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/feb/15/now-we-dont-have-a-safe-place-sex-workers-social-media-site-switter-shuts-down-amid-legal-fears
It will likely need to be mods of nsfw subs who suggest a new home like lemmynsfw.com and link to a low-friction guide to get started. Native phone and web apps are coming out soon for Lemmy overall, and once that happens the "low-friction" part should be easier. People in it just for the nsfw can stay within lemmynsfw, or they can post on federated instances like lemmy.world. As you probably know best of all, Reddit lately seemed to have plenty of sex workers who were--surprise, surprise--regular people who posted elsewhere as well, and I'm sure that helps with advertising. My money is definitely on that particular Lemmy instance if no one launches a new service.
Won't help much, people won't read it. They didn't back on reddit, hell most of the newcomers here don't read the documentation. Same with mobile apps, had over 90% mobile stats in my subs, same questions still asked about how to make a post.
Yeah, they post elsewhere, but it's skirting rules elsewhere while reddit pretty much allowed them to post whatever they wanted.
Ain't that the truth. I fixed a few laptops that turned out to be owned by craigslist hookers when I did a short stint at a PC repair store.
FYI, "hooker" is considered to be pretty derogatory. Sex worker is the more widely accepted terminology.
I meant no offense.
OnlyFans will be replaced by A.I. ChatGPT-4 is great at seduction, it’s why people think it is so smart.
People's view on the Tumblr fiasco is very limited. Yahoo didn't screw up anything. Payment processors were threatening to stop allowing any transactions and Apple straight up removed them from the App Store. Both because of porn. Yahoo didn't ruin Tumblr by banning the porn, they saved it. It's the only reason Tumblr still exists. The only screw up here is that they overpaid for a social network that was mostly porn and was never profitable.
About where the amateur porn will go - the answer is porn websites, especially ones like OnlyFans that offer pay-gates. I think performers will gather audiences on other platforms with SFW content (like gaming on twitch for example) and then funnel the simps towards a paid platform where their porn is (like OF)
I honestly do not understand why credit card processors seem to have such issues with porn.
It’s not like taking money from porn sites is going to give them bad marketing or something; most of the time credit card processors are completely transparent. I don’t know who the credit card processors for Walmart is nor do I care to find out. If they wanted to keep their name out of it, then lord knows that there are tons of ways that corporations can keep secrets. It seems like a lot of money to reject.
The payment processors shy away from anything that has a higher proportion of chargebacks, since those cost the processors money. Anything sex-related gets a lot of chargebacks, probably due to buys trying to cover their tracks. ('Honestly, I never bought that - it must be a scammer.')
I definitely agree with this - it's not a condemnation of your cards if people use it to buy porn, it just means people buy porn.
Card companies have no responsibility to refuse any sort of transactions that customers make as far as I know, and it's not like they themselves are the ones choosing to buy it. Banks don't give a shit if the money they lend goes to any number of places, why do card companies care how their cards are used?
It's also not like they need PR - it's a credit card.
I don't understand why they're completely inconsistent. One can use cards on OnlyFans, or clip sites, or all sorts of subscription services without an issue...
The reason Onlyfans flirted with the idea of banning sexually explicit content was precisely because of credit processors threatening to abandon them. Credit processors don't like sexually explicit content because people buy it and then try to chargeback when post-nut clarity descends.
Yeah, I don't disagree but that doesn't address my post at all- that it is inconsistently decided, it appears, and even a site that considers dropping cards... then doesn't? they somehow worked it out, and many other adult sites accept cards too.
So what changed, or didn't, or why is it a problem for some sites and not others? Or why can it be a problem, then all of a sudden not be a problem? The inconsistency is what I was asking about.
ManyVids has always accepted cards. Bellesa seems to have always accepted cards. I could name many other sites, but let's just say I've been a member of maybe 5-10 sites, and all have taken cards. Some of them have QUITE stringent anti-fraud measures in place- maybe that helps, idk
I'll tell ya where. Literally anywhere. Where there is porn there is userbase. There are enough open source projects to glue together what's essentially a cloud storage with a user frontend. If the content creators are smart they'd band together and create their own website.
This is true for pretty much the whole web. We could run alternatives for Facebook, Instagram and Twitter cooperatively. But this needs a lot of organisation and you get multiple splinter groups every time there is disagreement over details, which happens all the time. That means efforts are duplicated and users don't know where to go.
Just look at all the reddit alternatives that have been popping up over the last years. Technically, they could all replace reddit, but instead we now have content spread over too many half-baked side projects.
It'll go to Lemmy.
There's already lemmynsfw as an instance and it's slowly loading up with communities, nobody who is on that instance will care in any way if other instances don't federate with it.
Redgifs seems to be increasing in popularity. A lot of reddit content was already hosted there.
Pardon my ignorance but is that not what only fans is? Or is it considered pro because it's paid?
On OnlyFans there is no way to discover new creators, and that is by design. No recommendation algorithm. There is a search box but it is only for finding creators whose names you already know (I assume this is for privacy reasons). So OF models post on places like Reddit or Twitter to promote themselves and try to redirect viewers to their OF profile.
Porn will just go to whatever social network is biggest at the time even if it isn't allowed, the content creators will just balance of the edge of the rules seeing how far they can push it without getting banned. Look at the twitch hot tub streamers for a perfect example of this. If you look at Tiktok, there's plenty of videos which are pushing the terms of service to the limit just to redirect people to their Instagram which lets them link their Onlyfans pages. They use code words and emojis to get around the key word filter so it is still discoverable for anyone looking.
Reddit isn't going anywhere for a while, it's lost some of it's userbase over the past month, and I'd argue it's lost plenty of "high quality" users who post good content and discussions but this will have no impact on the porn. These "high quality" users leaving are not going to affect porn bots and Onlyfans creators spamming their content to 50 different subreddits trying to get anyone to click. Realistically casual users could not care less about what's happening to Reddit, and they will stay there until it shuts down which means porn will have a safe place there indefinitely.
I don’t think the issue for amateur porn on reddit is that reddit is dying but that reddit seems to be taking slow steps to removing it. First it was removed from /r/all (understandable), now the third party apps that still exist are barred from showing sexually explicit nsfw content (as of yesterday), and people, like me personally, think that reddit is going to continue “cleaning up” further in advance of the IPO.
I can still use my magical redditp link to show me a curated feed of dirt. I don't even need to sign in.
My bet is that gets murdered soon too.
I really just hope it goes somewhere that can easily be blocked. One of the worst aspects of the internet for me today is that generic, algorithmic platforms which feature things like reposting/boosting can result in a user being shown pornographic and porn-adjacent content against their will.
It seems like on Lemmy all the NSFW might be concentrated on NSFW-specific instances, which should hopefully make it easier to filter and block. I also like that on the Fediverse in general there is a good culture of marking things as NSFW.
My initial experience on Threads was quite soured by this; all the stuff about the nature of a firehose-only feed aside, the firehose was quickly full of porn-adjacent images and videos and I quickly got tired of trying to mute accounts every time something came up.
Depends on if you mean free or not. Something like ManyVids and other clips sites have tons of amateur stuff (and sure some non-Amateur stuff mixed in, that always happens). A lot of OF/Fansly creators also sell clips in places like that- and those clips sites tend to have better discovery mechanisms / advanced search whereas that's a big thing missing from OF. They also typically allow downloading / keeping content because you're buying the content directly, whereas with OF you cannot do that if you want, because the whole point is paying a subscription for everything but it being walled into only being viewable via your OF account. I like this idea of paying creators directly for content and I've tried to move towards that in my consumption of this type of content, as sex workers should be paid.
I don't know what process creators have to go through to host content on various sites like these but my assumption is that there is some kind of vetting / moderation layer that helps prevent illegal content from being posted. My assumption is that big sites like this would have resources to do more than other platforms that aren't dedicated to that content (like a subreddit or Tumblr blog...). Allowing user submitted NSFW content always seems like a big danger if there isn't adequate moderation in place.
I couldn't help but post this screenshot of this chat
Reddit and Twitter will remain until the next thing comes along. Simple as that.