Modern Germans don't fly their own flag particularly often. Flying a German flag at one's home is a pretty clear sign someone's alt right here unless it's during a big national football event. The...
Modern Germans don't fly their own flag particularly often. Flying a German flag at one's home is a pretty clear sign someone's alt right here unless it's during a big national football event. The overt nationalism of flying a German flag can sometimes be a proxy for flying other flags that are banned in Germany.
Maybe the sort of German who emigrates to the US is different. Certainly the sort of German who would support Trump is probably also the sort of German who would fly the German flag and yell "Ausländer raus" at brown people.
That argumentation was used here in the Netherlands too and it's outright nonsense. Most people like their own flag. I'm sure Berliners think otherwise. No I will remain with my standpoint. Most...
That argumentation was used here in the Netherlands too and it's outright nonsense. Most people like their own flag.
I'm sure Berliners think otherwise.
No I will remain with my standpoint. Most people are normal people, and in flag waving America where heritage is important, having a flag from your country of origin is nothing out of the norm.
I'm not really "arguing" anything, I'm just observing the different norms in Germany when it comes to flying the German flag at home. It's culturally got different connotations than flying a US...
I'm not really "arguing" anything, I'm just observing the different norms in Germany when it comes to flying the German flag at home. It's culturally got different connotations than flying a US flag in the US does. I've never lived in the Netherlands, so I don't know or care about how it's handled there. But it's quite rare to see German flags flying at people's apartments here outside of Eurocup season for a reason.
I think the person described in this post is an alt right dipshit, but that's because of the Trump flag. The German flag's connotations are very different in the US than in Germany, and there are a large number of people with German heritage in the US who have a very different relationship with German national symbols.
Most Trump supporters aren't alt right. He's the absolute most popular person in the Republican party and has been for 8 years. There nothing "alt" about him anymore.
Most Trump supporters aren't alt right. He's the absolute most popular person in the Republican party and has been for 8 years. There nothing "alt" about him anymore.
I'll say again: Overton window Trump is personally responsible for moving his party toward the alt right. I lack statistics yet I'm willing to bet that sympathies for alt right sentiments are now...
I'll say again: Overton window
Trump is personally responsible for moving his party toward the alt right. I lack statistics yet I'm willing to bet that sympathies for alt right sentiments are now significantly greater than they were 8 years ago among Republican voters.
I'm using "alt right" to refer to their political positions, not as a new phrase I made up to claim they're not mainstream these days. And I do think anyone who likes Trump enough to fly a Trump...
I'm using "alt right" to refer to their political positions, not as a new phrase I made up to claim they're not mainstream these days. And I do think anyone who likes Trump enough to fly a Trump flag is sufficiently on board with those positions. And, to be frank, I really don't care if I'm being overbroad in my condemnation of enthusiastic Trump supporters.
Americans have a very different relationship with flying flags than Germans, and a lot fewer hangups about it. My guess is that this isn’t a recent German immigrant, but rather someone with German...
Americans have a very different relationship with flying flags than Germans, and a lot fewer hangups about it. My guess is that this isn’t a recent German immigrant, but rather someone with German heritage. You see the same thing with other nationalities near me - lots of people fly or display flags of where they or their family immigrated from.
We don’t have any flags flying, but we do have a lot of German and Austrian decorative items in our house. We’re not extremists, or right leaning, but both of our families came from Germany and we have spent a lot of time there ourselves (and/or Austria). They remind us of lots of good memories with family, or traveling and living abroad.
I’m with the other commenter - most people are normal people. Flying flags (in the US) is pretty common. Unless the flag is a very overt extremist flag, I would default to assume that these are mostly normal people who I mostly disagree with politically, but would probably enjoy sharing a meal of family recipes with.
Yeah, I agree with this, I think Americans with German heritage (which I am fwiw) are more likely to fly a German flag than an actual immigrant from Germany. I just wanted to point out the...
Yeah, I agree with this, I think Americans with German heritage (which I am fwiw) are more likely to fly a German flag than an actual immigrant from Germany. I just wanted to point out the differences in flag-flying culture between the two countries.
But someone flying a Trump flag is already pretty clearly signalling their abysmal politics anyway.
I think this also makes the most sense given most of the Midwestern states had a lot of German immigrants. I'm in southern Ohio and during September and October I always see a decent amount of...
I think this also makes the most sense given most of the Midwestern states had a lot of German immigrants. I'm in southern Ohio and during September and October I always see a decent amount of German flags celebrating Oktoberfest. Not sure if just having a trump flag and a German one is a dog whistle.
Yeahhh... But to a point. Most people are moderate. The internet makes you think otherwise but I'm fairly confident most average folks are just that, average.
Yeahhh... But to a point. Most people are moderate. The internet makes you think otherwise but I'm fairly confident most average folks are just that, average.
If they wanted to whistle at far right extremism I'd expect a 3%er or Gadsden flag first. Or a (pre) WWI era German Imperial flag which has been coopted by neonazis. But I understand why you feel...
If they wanted to whistle at far right extremism I'd expect a 3%er or Gadsden flag first. Or a (pre) WWI era German Imperial flag which has been coopted by neonazis.
But I understand why you feel the need to check. I don't see anything suggesting that modern German flags are being used by people at Trump rallies or by modern NeoNazis here or in Germany.
I cannot abide the appropriation of the Gadsden flag. By right, that flag, a symbol of the patriots who laid down their lives for the independence of America, belongs to all Americans—not a mob of...
I cannot abide the appropriation of the Gadsden flag. By right, that flag, a symbol of the patriots who laid down their lives for the independence of America, belongs to all Americans—not a mob of victims who blame everyone but themselves for their ills. It belongs to people of bravery and character who sacrifice for America. Those who do not take responsibility for the welfare of their fellow citizens, such as the MAGA movement, a movement driven by the belittling of others, do not deserve that flag.
The same thing happened in Australia with the Eureka Flag. ...
The same thing happened in Australia with the Eureka Flag.
Since the 1854 miner's revolt, the Eureka Flag, born out of adversity, has gained wider notability in Australian culture as a symbol of democracy, egalitarianism, trade unionism, white nationalism, and a general-purpose symbol of protest.
...
More recently, far-right organisations and political parties have adopted it, including the Australia First Party, National Action, and some neo-Nazi groups, much to the frustration of more established socialist and progressive claimants.
I think I don't have any strong connection to a flag like that, the American flag, Gadsden, Pride, whatever. They mean a combination of what the waver intends and what the watcher interprets. And...
I think I don't have any strong connection to a flag like that, the American flag, Gadsden, Pride, whatever. They mean a combination of what the waver intends and what the watcher interprets. And there's no way to put meanings back into a bag. There's multiple reasons why people won't fly the American flag, some of those are that flying it is associated with the right.
I poked at Wikipedia and there's an almost offhanded mention of a ship from Georgia flying a Gadsden into Boston Harbor in 1861, with stars for the slave states. So it didn't take til modern times for it to be used by others who felt oppressed by the government.
I do laugh at "No Step On Snek" and "Tread on me Daddy" parodies though
Other folks are making very rational arguments. I'll take a more practical approach. I'm not in the Midwest, but personally if my neighbors have a different world view I don't care. I do care...
Other folks are making very rational arguments. I'll take a more practical approach. I'm not in the Midwest, but personally if my neighbors have a different world view I don't care. I do care about knowing if I can rely on them in an emergency. Flag flying is someone going out of their way to inform you about themselves. Flying US and German flags are confounding and unclear to me. That Trump one is enough of a signal to me though. I'd keep an eye out and be more cautious not to treat them neutrally (especially if you're a minority). If you're feeling bold you can talk to them, white nationalist and fascists tend to let you know what they're about pretty quickly. Admittedly it can be hard to distinguish between them and rabid Trump supporters (which I think is the core problem you're thinking about).
Tldr; keep your antennas up. If they're are signaling bigotry they'll keep sending the signal.
Or a German immigrant.
There's no need to assume the worst, most people are normal people.
Modern Germans don't fly their own flag particularly often. Flying a German flag at one's home is a pretty clear sign someone's alt right here unless it's during a big national football event. The overt nationalism of flying a German flag can sometimes be a proxy for flying other flags that are banned in Germany.
Maybe the sort of German who emigrates to the US is different. Certainly the sort of German who would support Trump is probably also the sort of German who would fly the German flag and yell "Ausländer raus" at brown people.
That argumentation was used here in the Netherlands too and it's outright nonsense. Most people like their own flag.
I'm sure Berliners think otherwise.
No I will remain with my standpoint. Most people are normal people, and in flag waving America where heritage is important, having a flag from your country of origin is nothing out of the norm.
I'm not really "arguing" anything, I'm just observing the different norms in Germany when it comes to flying the German flag at home. It's culturally got different connotations than flying a US flag in the US does. I've never lived in the Netherlands, so I don't know or care about how it's handled there. But it's quite rare to see German flags flying at people's apartments here outside of Eurocup season for a reason.
I think the person described in this post is an alt right dipshit, but that's because of the Trump flag. The German flag's connotations are very different in the US than in Germany, and there are a large number of people with German heritage in the US who have a very different relationship with German national symbols.
Most Trump supporters aren't alt right. He's the absolute most popular person in the Republican party and has been for 8 years. There nothing "alt" about him anymore.
I'll say again: Overton window
Trump is personally responsible for moving his party toward the alt right. I lack statistics yet I'm willing to bet that sympathies for alt right sentiments are now significantly greater than they were 8 years ago among Republican voters.
I'm using "alt right" to refer to their political positions, not as a new phrase I made up to claim they're not mainstream these days. And I do think anyone who likes Trump enough to fly a Trump flag is sufficiently on board with those positions. And, to be frank, I really don't care if I'm being overbroad in my condemnation of enthusiastic Trump supporters.
Americans have a very different relationship with flying flags than Germans, and a lot fewer hangups about it. My guess is that this isn’t a recent German immigrant, but rather someone with German heritage. You see the same thing with other nationalities near me - lots of people fly or display flags of where they or their family immigrated from.
We don’t have any flags flying, but we do have a lot of German and Austrian decorative items in our house. We’re not extremists, or right leaning, but both of our families came from Germany and we have spent a lot of time there ourselves (and/or Austria). They remind us of lots of good memories with family, or traveling and living abroad.
I’m with the other commenter - most people are normal people. Flying flags (in the US) is pretty common. Unless the flag is a very overt extremist flag, I would default to assume that these are mostly normal people who I mostly disagree with politically, but would probably enjoy sharing a meal of family recipes with.
Yeah, I agree with this, I think Americans with German heritage (which I am fwiw) are more likely to fly a German flag than an actual immigrant from Germany. I just wanted to point out the differences in flag-flying culture between the two countries.
But someone flying a Trump flag is already pretty clearly signalling their abysmal politics anyway.
I think this also makes the most sense given most of the Midwestern states had a lot of German immigrants. I'm in southern Ohio and during September and October I always see a decent amount of German flags celebrating Oktoberfest. Not sure if just having a trump flag and a German one is a dog whistle.
I had just thought of Oktoberfest as a possible reason. I think this is definitely a probable reason this time of year.
Citation needed ;p
Normal within certain bounds? ;D
Two words: "Overton window"
Yeahhh... But to a point. Most people are moderate. The internet makes you think otherwise but I'm fairly confident most average folks are just that, average.
True by definition
If they wanted to whistle at far right extremism I'd expect a 3%er or Gadsden flag first. Or a (pre) WWI era German Imperial flag which has been coopted by neonazis.
But I understand why you feel the need to check. I don't see anything suggesting that modern German flags are being used by people at Trump rallies or by modern NeoNazis here or in Germany.
I cannot abide the appropriation of the Gadsden flag. By right, that flag, a symbol of the patriots who laid down their lives for the independence of America, belongs to all Americans—not a mob of victims who blame everyone but themselves for their ills. It belongs to people of bravery and character who sacrifice for America. Those who do not take responsibility for the welfare of their fellow citizens, such as the MAGA movement, a movement driven by the belittling of others, do not deserve that flag.
The same thing happened in Australia with the Eureka Flag.
...
I think I don't have any strong connection to a flag like that, the American flag, Gadsden, Pride, whatever. They mean a combination of what the waver intends and what the watcher interprets. And there's no way to put meanings back into a bag. There's multiple reasons why people won't fly the American flag, some of those are that flying it is associated with the right.
I poked at Wikipedia and there's an almost offhanded mention of a ship from Georgia flying a Gadsden into Boston Harbor in 1861, with stars for the slave states. So it didn't take til modern times for it to be used by others who felt oppressed by the government.
I do laugh at "No Step On Snek" and "Tread on me Daddy" parodies though
Other folks are making very rational arguments. I'll take a more practical approach. I'm not in the Midwest, but personally if my neighbors have a different world view I don't care. I do care about knowing if I can rely on them in an emergency. Flag flying is someone going out of their way to inform you about themselves. Flying US and German flags are confounding and unclear to me. That Trump one is enough of a signal to me though. I'd keep an eye out and be more cautious not to treat them neutrally (especially if you're a minority). If you're feeling bold you can talk to them, white nationalist and fascists tend to let you know what they're about pretty quickly. Admittedly it can be hard to distinguish between them and rabid Trump supporters (which I think is the core problem you're thinking about).
Tldr; keep your antennas up. If they're are signaling bigotry they'll keep sending the signal.