A couple of days ago Intel announced that it will discontinue the manufacturing of its Intel NUC line. I’m currently a little disappointed since like many I use them for my home mini-servers. Now...
A couple of days ago Intel announced that it will discontinue the manufacturing of its Intel NUC line. I’m currently a little disappointed since like many I use them for my home mini-servers.
There are several, from global brands like Asus and Asrock, to small time Chinese brands like Minisforum and Beelink. It is sad to see Intel - arguably the premium brand in the miniPC space - call...
There are several, from global brands like Asus and Asrock, to small time Chinese brands like Minisforum and Beelink.
It is sad to see Intel - arguably the premium brand in the miniPC space - call it quits.
Dell has their "Micro Form Factor" PCs. I used to buy these at work for anyone who needed/wanted a desktop PC instead of or in addition to their laptops. They were great. I think Lenovo and HP...
Dell has their "Micro Form Factor" PCs. I used to buy these at work for anyone who needed/wanted a desktop PC instead of or in addition to their laptops. They were great. I think Lenovo and HP have similar sized PCs as well.
That said, they are a little bigger than NUCs. My first NUC, an i5 version from ~2015, was my original HTPC. It was the perfect size for sitting on the shelves that surround my TV. I have a couple more NUCs from work that were used to drive display boards. Rather than sending them to e-waste recyclers, I kept them since they could be super useful for exactly what you're talking about.
It's a shame that the "OG" manufacturer is backing out, but as long as other companies are providing similar products, I'm not too worried. Frankly, I always thought Intel didn't do enough to push these. Given how many of those small/micro form factor PCs I've set up for clients during a previous job, there is a need/want for tiny desktop computers that don't need that much power and don't take up much space. Intel may have been the first out of the gate, but they let the traditional PC OEMs take over the market.
I have a couple Lenovo M600 Tiny boxes I bought used from eBay, I've been very happy with them. like you said, a bigger footprint than the NUCs, though slightly thinner as well. all in all I think...
I think Lenovo and HP have similar sized PCs as well.
I have a couple Lenovo M600 Tiny boxes I bought used from eBay, I've been very happy with them.
like you said, a bigger footprint than the NUCs, though slightly thinner as well. all in all I think I prefer the Lenovo form factor.
they support dual SSDs (a 2.5" and a 2280 M.2) which only the "tall" NUC models did. I like having that option because it lets me buy 2 cheapo SSDs, run them in a ZFS mirror, and laugh off a drive failure.
the thing I really like about them is they use the same power adapter and plug as pre-USB-C Thinkpads. I have 3 NUCs of 3 different generations, and each one uses a different design for the power adapter. shit like that is where you can really see a difference between Lenovo and Intel's approach to consumer electronics.
I was a little disappointed as well because I like the concept even though I don't own one, but there are a bunch of good alternatives so its not really a big loss in reality.
I was a little disappointed as well because I like the concept even though I don't own one, but there are a bunch of good alternatives so its not really a big loss in reality.
Although I was initially a little bummed out by the Intel announcement, I think it is fine. Their initial goal was to usher in a new more efficient form factor for desktop computers, which would...
Although I was initially a little bummed out by the Intel announcement, I think it is fine. Their initial goal was to usher in a new more efficient form factor for desktop computers, which would in turn, allow them to sell more CPUs and chipsets and I would say they accomplished that goal. As DanielB commented below, There are a bunch of brands that sell NUC-likes now, and at far more competitive prices than Intel has offered for years. I own several and I haven't bought an actual Intel branded NUC in 6+ years.
Yep, Amazon has countless options at affordable prices that make for excellent NAS/Media servers. They're also nice options for people that just need a cheap way to browse the internet and check...
Yep, Amazon has countless options at affordable prices that make for excellent NAS/Media servers. They're also nice options for people that just need a cheap way to browse the internet and check email. I set my parents up with a Beelink mini pc that cost something like $180 two years ago and it suits their needs well. It's sad to be losing Intel's products range but you're right, they did accomplish their goals and there are still more great options out there than ever.
I used to run a x86 platform as a home server: Intel Atom based. For 6 years I’ve now been running a Pi server. With the current outstanding ARM support, there’s nothing I really need x86 for...
I used to run a x86 platform as a home server: Intel Atom based. For 6 years I’ve now been running a Pi server. With the current outstanding ARM support, there’s nothing I really need x86 for anymore. Also speed wise, I’ve not been having any trouble with the Pi 4 model. What are you running on your server? You may be able to make the switch too. And it consumes so little power!
Just a quick edit: the Pi I have boots from a disk, it’s not using an unreliable SD card. It acts as a NAS, among other things, and therefore also has a RAID setup with two mirrored drives. It has been a solid setup for many years.
I actually switched the other way funnily enough. I ran on Pi 4s for a long time, but was feeling some slowness when running large tasks. I run a server hosting a Django app, with Postgres and...
I actually switched the other way funnily enough. I ran on Pi 4s for a long time, but was feeling some slowness when running large tasks. I run a server hosting a Django app, with Postgres and Grafana. Overall Pi is a great solution (barring the shortage last year). I just yearned for something faster.
Sidenote: Intel's "financial struggles" seem to be entirely in the realm of making less profit, not that they're in the red or anything. Wikipedia lists >8 billion net income for 2022, while also...
Sidenote: Intel's "financial struggles" seem to be entirely in the realm of making less profit, not that they're in the red or anything.
Wikipedia lists >8 billion net income for 2022, while also holding >180 billion in assets. That's more than just healthy. Intel has nothing to worry about, managers are just trying to increase their bonus payouts.
Their own earnings show a net loss of $2.7B for Q1 and revenue down 36% y/y. Their projections showed further losses but their Q2 earnings call should be soon, so we'll see. In terms of assets,...
Their own earnings show a net loss of $2.7B for Q1 and revenue down 36% y/y. Their projections showed further losses but their Q2 earnings call should be soon, so we'll see. In terms of assets, they do have some cash on hand ($8B) but their biggest chunk of their assets is "property, plant, equipment" which accounts for $85 out of $185B in assets.
So they're not circling the drain, but I wouldn't say "nothing to worry about". They can't sustain $2.7B quarterly losses forever. But the fact that they were profitable recently is what's keeping them with a healthy balance sheet now. They don't necessarily need to reach out for expensive debt. And they're doing the right thing by trimming product lines that might be losing aren't making them money.
I suspect much of the current poor earnings are mostly the hangover from the record profits everyone made during the couple years of the pandemic. I believe most of the PC industry is feeling that...
I suspect much of the current poor earnings are mostly the hangover from the record profits everyone made during the couple years of the pandemic. I believe most of the PC industry is feeling that right now with the GPU makers especially due to doubling down on their sky high prices. PC hardware rarely makes big leaps and bounds in capabilities and performance year over year anymore, so all that hardware they sold a couple of years ago is still fine.
Nvidia only saw a 13% y/y revenue decline and was net positive on the quarter. AMD's revenue only dropped 9% but they took a loss. So Intel's revenue decline is steep compared to their...
Nvidia only saw a 13% y/y revenue decline and was net positive on the quarter. AMD's revenue only dropped 9% but they took a loss. So Intel's revenue decline is steep compared to their competitors, at least based on Q1 earnings.
Intel is definitely in rougher shape than Nvidia and AMD, but it helps that (despite the awful pricing) they both released new performant parts in that time. Intel gutted their engineering...
Intel is definitely in rougher shape than Nvidia and AMD, but it helps that (despite the awful pricing) they both released new performant parts in that time. Intel gutted their engineering headcount a few years back just as AMD was coming back into their own and Apple dumped them. I feel like they are still reeling from this. Intel got a huge needed flush of business during the pandemic though, so I still think the drastic downward swing is the hangover from that.
They're just getting absolutely crushed by the fact that so much compute is moving to GPU (which helps nvidia) and that huge players like Apple are now making their own custom ARM...
They're just getting absolutely crushed by the fact that so much compute is moving to GPU (which helps nvidia) and that huge players like Apple are now making their own custom ARM Systems-On-A-Chip instead of using Intel.
Intel just paid out a big stock dividend AND cut engineer salaries at the same time. it's the same story as always, greedy and shortsighted leadership.
Intel just paid out a big stock dividend AND cut engineer salaries at the same time.
it's the same story as always, greedy and shortsighted leadership.
They did cut their dividend by 2/3. Eliminating it completely would delist their stock from many dividend-specific funds and cause an even faster selloff, putting them in an even worse financial...
They did cut their dividend by 2/3. Eliminating it completely would delist their stock from many dividend-specific funds and cause an even faster selloff, putting them in an even worse financial situation.
Ah, when did they do that? When I was last looking at it they hadn't cut their dividend yet. Intel will be fine in the medium term at least I think. but it's gonna be rough for the next year.
Ah, when did they do that? When I was last looking at it they hadn't cut their dividend yet.
Intel will be fine in the medium term at least I think. but it's gonna be rough for the next year.
I'm guessing they did that after their poor Q1 earnings. That new dividend's Ex date was 5/4, so shortly after their earnings call. Not sure when the announcement was though. Agree that they can...
I'm guessing they did that after their poor Q1 earnings. That new dividend's Ex date was 5/4, so shortly after their earnings call. Not sure when the announcement was though.
Agree that they can ride this out for now, but they're going to need some serious wins to stay relevant. AMD and Nvidia are eating their lunch.
absolutely. But this is how it always is - nvidia is resting on their laurels now and in time Intel will surely return the favor and make a graphics card that puts the 4000 series to shame.
absolutely. But this is how it always is - nvidia is resting on their laurels now and in time Intel will surely return the favor and make a graphics card that puts the 4000 series to shame.
If anyone is looking for a similarly sized replacement, Project TinyMiniMicro from Serve the Home has been doing in-depth reviews of similar form factor PCs for a while now.
If anyone is looking for a similarly sized replacement, Project TinyMiniMicro from Serve the Home has been doing in-depth reviews of similar form factor PCs for a while now.
Asus has very good ones including AMD CPUs 😉 I’ve had a few of the cheaper Chinese brands e.g. Topton - be careful as other than the named CPU they tend to use very cheap unreliable components...
Asus has very good ones including AMD CPUs 😉
I’ve had a few of the cheaper Chinese brands e.g. Topton - be careful as other than the named CPU they tend to use very cheap unreliable components (SSD, RAM, coolers etc) to keep the prices down, and not only are they prone to failure but a nightmare to get replaced even under warranty.
I don't know for sure, but I'm betting it's because of compatibility, exclusivity, and a scaling/pricing issue. My vague understanding of the PS5's hardware is that it gets better performance than...
I don't know for sure, but I'm betting it's because of compatibility, exclusivity, and a scaling/pricing issue.
My vague understanding of the PS5's hardware is that it gets better performance than it otherwise "should" through pretty extreme optimization and customization. I remember when SONY started marketing the PS5 and some famous YouTube personalities incorrectly claimed Sony was lying about the SSD performance based on the specs they released. Then Sony's Mark Cerny gave a talk that revealed more details about how the SSD was so heavily integrated with all the other components inside the PS5, and those YouTubers ended up walking back their statements.
As for exclusivity, I don't know, but I would assume that Sony wouldn't be signing a deal in which the most important component of their product is available for retail through other means.
Finally, we know Sony takes losses on consoles for a long time and makes up for it through games, subscriptions, peripherals, etc. Sony had to sell 10 million PS5s before they stopped taking losses on them You could buy a better graphics card than the one in the PS5, but it'll cost you more and it's not going to be IGPU as you mentioned. Sony is getting a deal that AMD finds worthwhile because of scaling and because Sony is also taking that loss on the console sales anyway.
Again this is speculation, which might be the best anyone outside of Sony and AMD can really offer without inside knowledge. But I feel fairly confident that one or all of these reasons are in the right ballpark.
Well, they probably can't use those exact SoCs because of exclusivity contracts (same with the very similar MS XBox SoC), but I don't think that they would make and release such a product right...
Well, they probably can't use those exact SoCs because of exclusivity contracts (same with the very similar MS XBox SoC), but I don't think that they would make and release such a product right now anyway. I suspect that there are some big issues with really powerful iGPUs that standard PC motherboards would have a hard time supporting: power draw and memory bandwidth. Since the consoles were a specialized SoC, they likely have ample supply of both and are more like Apple's ARM offerings in that they have a fixed allotment of high bandwidth memory with a custom motherboard that doesn't need to conform to current PC power or socket limitations.
Intel has announced ASUS will be taking over NUC manufacturing and future development seems like a positive change, though it's kinda weird that they didn't work this out before the original...
seems like a positive change, though it's kinda weird that they didn't work this out before the original announcement. feels more like a rushed response to the kinda-sorta-backlash.
A couple of days ago Intel announced that it will discontinue the manufacturing of its Intel NUC line. I’m currently a little disappointed since like many I use them for my home mini-servers.
Now the search is on for a reliable alternative.
There are several, from global brands like Asus and Asrock, to small time Chinese brands like Minisforum and Beelink.
It is sad to see Intel - arguably the premium brand in the miniPC space - call it quits.
Dell has their "Micro Form Factor" PCs. I used to buy these at work for anyone who needed/wanted a desktop PC instead of or in addition to their laptops. They were great. I think Lenovo and HP have similar sized PCs as well.
That said, they are a little bigger than NUCs. My first NUC, an i5 version from ~2015, was my original HTPC. It was the perfect size for sitting on the shelves that surround my TV. I have a couple more NUCs from work that were used to drive display boards. Rather than sending them to e-waste recyclers, I kept them since they could be super useful for exactly what you're talking about.
It's a shame that the "OG" manufacturer is backing out, but as long as other companies are providing similar products, I'm not too worried. Frankly, I always thought Intel didn't do enough to push these. Given how many of those small/micro form factor PCs I've set up for clients during a previous job, there is a need/want for tiny desktop computers that don't need that much power and don't take up much space. Intel may have been the first out of the gate, but they let the traditional PC OEMs take over the market.
I have a couple Lenovo M600 Tiny boxes I bought used from eBay, I've been very happy with them.
like you said, a bigger footprint than the NUCs, though slightly thinner as well. all in all I think I prefer the Lenovo form factor.
they support dual SSDs (a 2.5" and a 2280 M.2) which only the "tall" NUC models did. I like having that option because it lets me buy 2 cheapo SSDs, run them in a ZFS mirror, and laugh off a drive failure.
the thing I really like about them is they use the same power adapter and plug as pre-USB-C Thinkpads. I have 3 NUCs of 3 different generations, and each one uses a different design for the power adapter. shit like that is where you can really see a difference between Lenovo and Intel's approach to consumer electronics.
I was a little disappointed as well because I like the concept even though I don't own one, but there are a bunch of good alternatives so its not really a big loss in reality.
Although I was initially a little bummed out by the Intel announcement, I think it is fine. Their initial goal was to usher in a new more efficient form factor for desktop computers, which would in turn, allow them to sell more CPUs and chipsets and I would say they accomplished that goal. As DanielB commented below, There are a bunch of brands that sell NUC-likes now, and at far more competitive prices than Intel has offered for years. I own several and I haven't bought an actual Intel branded NUC in 6+ years.
Yep, Amazon has countless options at affordable prices that make for excellent NAS/Media servers. They're also nice options for people that just need a cheap way to browse the internet and check email. I set my parents up with a Beelink mini pc that cost something like $180 two years ago and it suits their needs well. It's sad to be losing Intel's products range but you're right, they did accomplish their goals and there are still more great options out there than ever.
I have two Beelink NUC-likes as well, they make excellent HTPCs for the price.
I think Lenovo still makes the tiny ThinkCentres, and a Mac Mini with Linux is always an option (apart from the M[x] chips)
I used to run a x86 platform as a home server: Intel Atom based. For 6 years I’ve now been running a Pi server. With the current outstanding ARM support, there’s nothing I really need x86 for anymore. Also speed wise, I’ve not been having any trouble with the Pi 4 model. What are you running on your server? You may be able to make the switch too. And it consumes so little power!
Just a quick edit: the Pi I have boots from a disk, it’s not using an unreliable SD card. It acts as a NAS, among other things, and therefore also has a RAID setup with two mirrored drives. It has been a solid setup for many years.
I actually switched the other way funnily enough. I ran on Pi 4s for a long time, but was feeling some slowness when running large tasks. I run a server hosting a Django app, with Postgres and Grafana. Overall Pi is a great solution (barring the shortage last year). I just yearned for something faster.
Sidenote: Intel's "financial struggles" seem to be entirely in the realm of making less profit, not that they're in the red or anything.
Wikipedia lists >8 billion net income for 2022, while also holding >180 billion in assets. That's more than just healthy. Intel has nothing to worry about, managers are just trying to increase their bonus payouts.
Their own earnings show a net loss of $2.7B for Q1 and revenue down 36% y/y. Their projections showed further losses but their Q2 earnings call should be soon, so we'll see. In terms of assets, they do have some cash on hand ($8B) but their biggest chunk of their assets is "property, plant, equipment" which accounts for $85 out of $185B in assets.
So they're not circling the drain, but I wouldn't say "nothing to worry about". They can't sustain $2.7B quarterly losses forever. But the fact that they were profitable recently is what's keeping them with a healthy balance sheet now. They don't necessarily need to reach out for expensive debt. And they're doing the right thing by trimming product lines that might be losing aren't making them money.
I suspect much of the current poor earnings are mostly the hangover from the record profits everyone made during the couple years of the pandemic. I believe most of the PC industry is feeling that right now with the GPU makers especially due to doubling down on their sky high prices. PC hardware rarely makes big leaps and bounds in capabilities and performance year over year anymore, so all that hardware they sold a couple of years ago is still fine.
Nvidia only saw a 13% y/y revenue decline and was net positive on the quarter. AMD's revenue only dropped 9% but they took a loss. So Intel's revenue decline is steep compared to their competitors, at least based on Q1 earnings.
Intel is definitely in rougher shape than Nvidia and AMD, but it helps that (despite the awful pricing) they both released new performant parts in that time. Intel gutted their engineering headcount a few years back just as AMD was coming back into their own and Apple dumped them. I feel like they are still reeling from this. Intel got a huge needed flush of business during the pandemic though, so I still think the drastic downward swing is the hangover from that.
They're just getting absolutely crushed by the fact that so much compute is moving to GPU (which helps nvidia) and that huge players like Apple are now making their own custom ARM Systems-On-A-Chip instead of using Intel.
Intel just paid out a big stock dividend AND cut engineer salaries at the same time.
it's the same story as always, greedy and shortsighted leadership.
They did cut their dividend by 2/3. Eliminating it completely would delist their stock from many dividend-specific funds and cause an even faster selloff, putting them in an even worse financial situation.
Ah, when did they do that? When I was last looking at it they hadn't cut their dividend yet.
Intel will be fine in the medium term at least I think. but it's gonna be rough for the next year.
I'm guessing they did that after their poor Q1 earnings. That new dividend's Ex date was 5/4, so shortly after their earnings call. Not sure when the announcement was though.
Agree that they can ride this out for now, but they're going to need some serious wins to stay relevant. AMD and Nvidia are eating their lunch.
absolutely. But this is how it always is - nvidia is resting on their laurels now and in time Intel will surely return the favor and make a graphics card that puts the 4000 series to shame.
If anyone is looking for a similarly sized replacement, Project TinyMiniMicro from Serve the Home has been doing in-depth reviews of similar form factor PCs for a while now.
Asus has very good ones including AMD CPUs 😉
I’ve had a few of the cheaper Chinese brands e.g. Topton - be careful as other than the named CPU they tend to use very cheap unreliable components (SSD, RAM, coolers etc) to keep the prices down, and not only are they prone to failure but a nightmare to get replaced even under warranty.
I don't know for sure, but I'm betting it's because of compatibility, exclusivity, and a scaling/pricing issue.
My vague understanding of the PS5's hardware is that it gets better performance than it otherwise "should" through pretty extreme optimization and customization. I remember when SONY started marketing the PS5 and some famous YouTube personalities incorrectly claimed Sony was lying about the SSD performance based on the specs they released. Then Sony's Mark Cerny gave a talk that revealed more details about how the SSD was so heavily integrated with all the other components inside the PS5, and those YouTubers ended up walking back their statements.
As for exclusivity, I don't know, but I would assume that Sony wouldn't be signing a deal in which the most important component of their product is available for retail through other means.
Finally, we know Sony takes losses on consoles for a long time and makes up for it through games, subscriptions, peripherals, etc. Sony had to sell 10 million PS5s before they stopped taking losses on them You could buy a better graphics card than the one in the PS5, but it'll cost you more and it's not going to be IGPU as you mentioned. Sony is getting a deal that AMD finds worthwhile because of scaling and because Sony is also taking that loss on the console sales anyway.
Again this is speculation, which might be the best anyone outside of Sony and AMD can really offer without inside knowledge. But I feel fairly confident that one or all of these reasons are in the right ballpark.
I like your idea though. I'm all for it.
Well, they probably can't use those exact SoCs because of exclusivity contracts (same with the very similar MS XBox SoC), but I don't think that they would make and release such a product right now anyway. I suspect that there are some big issues with really powerful iGPUs that standard PC motherboards would have a hard time supporting: power draw and memory bandwidth. Since the consoles were a specialized SoC, they likely have ample supply of both and are more like Apple's ARM offerings in that they have a fixed allotment of high bandwidth memory with a custom motherboard that doesn't need to conform to current PC power or socket limitations.
Intel has announced ASUS will be taking over NUC manufacturing and future development
seems like a positive change, though it's kinda weird that they didn't work this out before the original announcement. feels more like a rushed response to the kinda-sorta-backlash.