Another reminder that if a device cannot run without internet access, you don't own that device after paying for it. You pay for a revocable usage right of a service whose characteristics can...
Another reminder that if a device cannot run without internet access, you don't own that device after paying for it. You pay for a revocable usage right of a service whose characteristics can change without notice.
I bought a Hue hub and several bulbs 6 years ago and love them. I'm not using the app as I go through my Domoticz server, so I will not get the firmware upgrade and be locked out of my device. But without the app I won't be able to register new bulbs. Guess who won't buy any new bulb?
Hue was something I heavily recommended to all of my friends, I will definitely make sure they know about this idiotic decision.
As someone that has never had a "smart bulb" or any "smart home" devices, can you share with me why you elected to get these and why you like them so much (prior to this privacy issue)?
As someone that has never had a "smart bulb" or any "smart home" devices, can you share with me why you elected to get these and why you like them so much (prior to this privacy issue)?
I work from home in my living room, so the killer feature of these bulbs is the ability to change the color temperature and brightness to match the mood: bright cold white during the work day...
I work from home in my living room, so the killer feature of these bulbs is the ability to change the color temperature and brightness to match the mood:
bright cold white during the work day
bright warm white after work when preparing dinner
progressively lowering the brightness as the evening goes on
I achieved this with Hue switches, as they can switch between different scenes with repeat presses. Except IKEA, most other smart bulb brands don't sell physical controls, and require you to use your phone. The quality of these light + the offline operations via physical switches are why I recommended them.
I first bought the full-color bulbs, but they are not worth the price. The second set I bought were the "white ambience" ones, that only cover cold & warm whites.
Not OP, but I bought a few (not Phillips Hue though) and there's probably a couple reasons I chose to get smart bulbs. First reason is partly for context, they were relatively cheap compared to my...
Not OP, but I bought a few (not Phillips Hue though) and there's probably a couple reasons I chose to get smart bulbs.
First reason is partly for context, they were relatively cheap compared to my disposable income. There's lots of things that were relatively cheap compared to my disposable income, and I didn't buy all of those things, so clearly that alone isn't reason enough.
Second reason was potential versatility of brightness. In the room I'm currently in, I have them in the ceiling fixture and I have the brightness set to 1%. I can change the brightness to whatever I want though. The brightness at 100% is far too much for me to normally be able to handle and creates more glare on my monitors. I'll usually only set it to that if I'm doing something in the room that I need to be able to see small things more clearly. Otherwise I might use varying degrees of brightness depending on what I'm doing in the room, but if all I'm doing is sitting at my desk staring at monitors, I don't really want bright lights around me.
Third reason was probably just the gimmicky elements of it and initial fun of the gimmick, even if it wasn't lasting. I can change the colors to whatever I want, or possibly set some kind of automations etc. but I didn't really need these.
Ultimately the second reason is what makes it most worth it for me. With standard bulbs, I'd either have to choose a specific wattage that isn't too bright that I can tolerate having the lights on most of the time, or just keep the lights off 99% of the time and sit in darkness and only turn the lights on when I really need to see something. Before smart bulbs, this type of dimming functionality existed but only if you had specific wiring and control devices to accomplish it. That's really not applicable in many situations, and far more costly to add when its not already there.
In my bedroom I also have them in there and it's similar reasons, the brightness. If I'm lying in bed awake and not trying to sleep, with normal lights in the ceiling fixture I have bright lights shining directly into my eyes (it's a ceiling fan with glass fixtures that aren't fully enclosed). Added bonus is I don't have to get up to turn on/off the lights.
I can't speak to pre-smart bulb, but LED compatible dimming switches are commonplace, cheap, require no special wiring, and have been for at least the last 5 years as I've replaced all of the...
Before smart bulbs, this type of dimming functionality existed but only if you had specific wiring and control devices to accomplish it.
I can't speak to pre-smart bulb, but LED compatible dimming switches are commonplace, cheap, require no special wiring, and have been for at least the last 5 years as I've replaced all of the switches in my 1950's built home with no wiring changes since we purchased the house as I too like to adjust light level based on what I'm doing.
I live in an apartment so I suspect they would not take kindly to switching them out as they generally prefer to keep things all the same across all apartments even in situations where it might...
I live in an apartment so I suspect they would not take kindly to switching them out as they generally prefer to keep things all the same across all apartments even in situations where it might not be difficult or costly to switch something out.
However it's good to know that you don't need to switch any wiring out. I wasn't aware of that. My parents home has a dedicated dimmer control that is separate from the light switches. Perhaps that made me believe it was something that was necessary in some cases.
That is a fair point, landlords don't take kindly to modifications even if they'd be for the better. Separate dimmers are something I've encountered, but dimmers being a part of the switch itself...
That is a fair point, landlords don't take kindly to modifications even if they'd be for the better.
Separate dimmers are something I've encountered, but dimmers being a part of the switch itself is far more common.
Very easy to dim LED bulbs, at least for lights that you are manually plugging in. Plug in dimmer. Just make sure to get bulbs that are compatible with the dimmers (or vice versa, to find a dimmer...
Ultimately the second reason is what makes it most worth it for me. With standard bulbs, I'd either have to choose a specific wattage that isn't too bright that I can tolerate having the lights on most of the time, or just keep the lights off 99% of the time and sit in darkness and only turn the lights on when I really need to see something. Before smart bulbs, this type of dimming functionality existed but only if you had specific wiring and control devices to accomplish it. That's really not applicable in many situations, and far more costly to add when its not already there.
Very easy to dim LED bulbs, at least for lights that you are manually plugging in. Plug in dimmer. Just make sure to get bulbs that are compatible with the dimmers (or vice versa, to find a dimmer compatible with your bulb.) Not all dimmers work with all LED bulbs. (Most of my overhead lights are not wired into the ceiling, so this has been useful for me, personally.)
I can see the issue for sockets that are wired into your ceiling however. I've never done this, but I'd be curious how difficult it is to install the dimmers into the wall. (Not encouraging anyone do DIY electrical work, if you've never done so... that's one area to maintain extreme caution :) )
I was unaware of this - thanks. I will have to look into those. Any in particular you (or anyone else) recommends? My experience has been that you have to be really precise about which dimmers you...
I was unaware of this - thanks. I will have to look into those. Any in particular you (or anyone else) recommends? My experience has been that you have to be really precise about which dimmers you use with which bulbs when it comes to dimmable LEDs. I didn't realize this until I got a few and they just didn't work. After calling a few manufacturers, apparently the manufacturers of LED dimmers tend to publish lists of which bulbs have been tested with their dimmers, so you can match your bulbs up to it.
I don't recall the exact reason behind this any longer, but if I remember, it was something along the lines of there being two different engineering approaches to LED dimmers (or maybe to dimmable bulbs?) and so if you get bulbs/dimmers that are mismatched, they won't work well together. This could be complete BS, it's just a vague memory of what I recall, and I could be recalling it wrong.
Yeah that sounds about right for LEDs. My dad is a sparky so I remember we always had whatever features we wanted throughout the house, and prior to LED or fluorescent bulbs, regular incandescent...
Yeah that sounds about right for LEDs. My dad is a sparky so I remember we always had whatever features we wanted throughout the house, and prior to LED or fluorescent bulbs, regular incandescent lights were so simple that you could replace the regular light switch with a dimmer and never even tough the light fittings in the room.
Nowadays, with fluros and LEDs, it’s a lot more complicated. My dad has since built and wired his own house with a full “smart home” wiring system in place, so I’m not sure that what I’ve seen him installing is relevant to the general case.
Huh, never came across those plug in dimmers before, but I guess I was never in a situation where I was motivated to look for them. Good to know such a solution exists. Price-wise it isn't much...
Very easy to dim LED bulbs, at least for lights that you are manually plugging in. Plug in dimmer. Just make sure to get bulbs that are compatible with the dimmers (or vice versa, to find a dimmer compatible with your bulb.) Not all dimmers work with all LED bulbs.
Huh, never came across those plug in dimmers before, but I guess I was never in a situation where I was motivated to look for them. Good to know such a solution exists. Price-wise it isn't much better than some smart bulbs on sale, but could be a good fit for some situations. Of course as this topic and many other newsworthy events in the past have highlighted, many of the ones going on sale in a way are subsidized by the nature of them being tied to the cloud and those companies intending to leverage that to get more money that way, so it's not really fair to compare them on price to the item you mentioned.
I can see the issue for sockets are wired into your ceiling however. I've never done this, but I'd be curious how difficult it is to install the dimmers into the wall. (Not encouraging anyone do DIY electrical work, if you've never done so... that's one area to maintain extreme caution :) )
I've seen these before. I haven't done it before but I'd probably feel comfortable trying if I was inclined. Even if I was inclined to DIY electrical work if I had my own home, wouldn't be suitable for someone in my current situation as I'm renting an apartment. Granted your plug in dimmer solution would still be acceptable for apartment use, but mentioning the apartment situation does show that smart bulbs do offer some versatility that other solutions don't have.
For sure. I'm not trying to say the plug in dimmers are the better options. Just highlighting that they are there. Personally, I don't want/can't use smart devices as my internet availability is...
For sure. I'm not trying to say the plug in dimmers are the better options. Just highlighting that they are there. Personally, I don't want/can't use smart devices as my internet availability is poor, and more importantly I don't always have access to a phone (nor do I like having my phone on often). So I have had to find some "non-smart device" solutions to things, and just wanted to share, in case anyone else is in my situation. I'm assuming over time everything will become smart devices, so I'm not sure what I will do then.
This is why I have lamps in most of my rooms, with lightbulbs of a lower wattage than the main lightbulbs in the ceiling light. I turn on the main room light when I want bright room-wide...
With standard bulbs, I'd either have to choose a specific wattage that isn't too bright that I can tolerate having the lights on most of the time, or just keep the lights off 99% of the time and sit in darkness and only turn the lights on when I really need to see something.
This is why I have lamps in most of my rooms, with lightbulbs of a lower wattage than the main lightbulbs in the ceiling light. I turn on the main room light when I want bright room-wide illumination; I turn on the lamp when I want dimmer indirect illumination. The lamp in my living room is dimmable, as is the lamp in my bedroom. The lamp in my study has two bulbs that operate on independent switches, so I can have either one on, or both on.
I use Phillips Wiz bulbs. I bought one to mess with and because the kids thought it would be cool. I bought a good handful more because they were on clearance for 5 CAD each for dimmable non color...
I use Phillips Wiz bulbs.
I bought one to mess with and because the kids thought it would be cool. I bought a good handful more because they were on clearance for 5 CAD each for dimmable non color changing ones.
I basically use them just as dimmers for use as night lights. I also had the idea of putting a bunch in my hallway connected to Home-Assistant to turn on dim when I come home at night (I work random shifts often) but I haven't followed through with that.
I do have privacy concerns and I really do care about that stuff but it requires no wiring or extra hardware (smart switches are expensive); the ability for an ESP32 in a lightbulb to spy on me is minimal; they work as dumb bulbs (so if wiz disappears they still work); and they were almost as cheap as regular bulbs when I got them at a steep discount.
I initially got smart bulbs to get around annoying wiring setups. I live in a 60 year old house, so I have single switches which control the ceiling fans and lights. Turn off the light, you turn...
I initially got smart bulbs to get around annoying wiring setups. I live in a 60 year old house, so I have single switches which control the ceiling fans and lights. Turn off the light, you turn off the fan. My living room has no built in lights and no switch to control outlets/floor lamps.
Smart bulbs were easier for me than changing wiring. I ended up going a little fancier, the living room lights turn off when the tv plays and on when the tv turns off. Several of the houses lights switch on at sunset and off later if they haven’t been switched off. I hadn’t considered when I set this up that it makes for a decent vacation setup, the house still looks occupied when we aren’t at home for an evening or a week.
Another "not hue" but other smart bulb user. One great feature that is just easier than the manual alternatives is setting timers for lights to come on / off at specific times while you're out or...
Another "not hue" but other smart bulb user. One great feature that is just easier than the manual alternatives is setting timers for lights to come on / off at specific times while you're out or on holiday.
It's easy to do, and you can check when you're away that the lights did actually come on at the time you wanted etc.
Just as an FYI - there are color-changing bulbs where you can control brightness, even occasionally color temperature, which don't require a hub or internet access. They are bulbs that are remote...
Just as an FYI - there are color-changing bulbs where you can control brightness, even occasionally color temperature, which don't require a hub or internet access. They are bulbs that are remote operated. My home is filled with these, among other lights. It's true you will need to manually change them, but to me I'm not bothered by that.
Warning: lumens tend to be low on these bulbs (I rarely see color-changing bulbs with greater than 800 lumens; they will claim 1000-1200 lumens but I don't believe it..). You would not want to use them as your sole light source, however, I am assuming the smart bulbs are also limited in this way.
In my home I have chosen the following setup:
I have multiple overhead lights that are very bright (1600+ lumens) and dimmable. I have them in an assortment of color temperatures (warm white [around 3500k], and "daylight" white [around 5000k+])
Several lower-intensity (600-800 lumen) color-changing bulbs (also dimmable)
In the morning upon waking, I turn on my "super bright" daylight color temp bulbs. Around mid-afternoon, I switch these off and turn on my softer white (3500k) bulbs. After sunset, I either dim the soft white bulbs, or I switch them off and switch on my color changing bulbs, setting them on a softer white or yellow. About 4 hours before sleep, I turn my color-changing bulbs to red.
This probably sounds insane and annoying, but I started doing this over the course of 2 years, as I realized how much it helped with my sleep and fatigue levels. Oddly, it turned out later on that my incredible daytime fatigue was actually due to very low iron levels which I've since gotten corrected, but during those 2 years where my iron was so low and I was so tired, light was my only refuge from miserable fatigue (it didn't fix it, but at least it helped a little bit). All that said, the appropriate lighting still makes a big difference on my sleep (it's just that I'm not so dependent on it) and so I've stayed with this routine.
In case anyone is interested in the non-smart (remote controlled) color-changing bulbs, here are the bulbs I use:
Again, these bulbs are not super bright. As for regular, brighter (higher lumen) LED bulbs, you can find these anywhere. Look at both the lumens (brightness), and color temperature ("type" of whiteness) of the bulbs. Note: just because a bulb is dimmable doesn't mean it will work with every dimmer; LED bulbs don't work the same, and generally won't work with oldschool dimmers. You will need to do your due dilligence and find bulbs and dimmers that work together.
Warning: Be careful with super bright bulbs (very high lumens). Of course, never look directly into these lights. Make sure all overhead lighting like this as some sort of shade over it so that you're not glimpsing the bulb. I used these
I'm not saying it's optimal. i'm saying it's pretty much the option if you don't want smart devices, which not all of us do (or are capable of utilizing, due to limitations with our phones or...
I'm not saying it's optimal. i'm saying it's pretty much the option if you don't want smart devices, which not all of us do (or are capable of utilizing, due to limitations with our phones or wifi).
Personally, I bought a couple sets of the same type of bulbs (so for example, I have 8 of "bulb A" and 8 of "bulb B"). All 8 of "bulb A" can use the same remote, and all 8 of "bulb B" can use the same remote, so I have 2 remotes in total. I labeled each remote so it's impossible to mix them but, but they look so different that it wasn't necessary (I just like labeling things :) ). Never been a hassle for me.
The nice thing was that the sets of bulbs included a single remote for each bulb (I guess supposing that people would use them in different rooms, and wouldn't want to take remotes from room to room), so I have tons of backups in case one remote goes bad (which I've never had happen.)
Obviously, this is only for the color changing LED bulbs; the regular LED bulbs don't have remotes. So yeah, 2 remotes in total, not a big deal for me personally. I put them on top of my desk and never misplace them.
I semi-recently replaced my smart lights with Phillips Hue bulbs, but for a hub I use a Sonoff ZigBee dongle connected to my home server running Home Assistant. My only concern is that...
I semi-recently replaced my smart lights with Phillips Hue bulbs, but for a hub I use a Sonoff ZigBee dongle connected to my home server running Home Assistant. My only concern is that theoretically they could put out a firmware update for the bulbs so that they refuse to connect to a non-Hue hub. So I guess I have to be careful before updating the firmware on them now.
Honestly, so long as the offline bit continues to work for when my internet goes out, I don't particularly care about the data thing. I gave up on caring what company has my data, what profile...
Exemplary
Honestly, so long as the offline bit continues to work for when my internet goes out, I don't particularly care about the data thing. I gave up on caring what company has my data, what profile they're building with it, or who they sell it to a long time ago. It takes far too much time, effort, and compromises to deal with keeping my personal information safe. Even assuming I do everything perfect, many places that have to keep private information about me are one data breech away from giving up tons of my personal info and I had no control over it.
For political change to work, there'd have to be a large percentage of the population that actually cares about data privacy. And, I don't know about you, but I don't see a large push for it...
For political change to work, there'd have to be a large percentage of the population that actually cares about data privacy. And, I don't know about you, but I don't see a large push for it outside a very vocal minority of internet users. I can't think of anyone I know personally that cares what companies are collecting about them. Granted, I live in rural Ohio, so my circle of acquaintances aren't exactly a representative sample, but I can't imagine it's very different in most other places. At least not to a degree that would matter to force any kind of political solution to this.
But, if I'm being perfectly honest, I'm just lazy. I could push for political change, but not doing so is easier. And even if I did, the matter of data being stolen is still an issue that's not going to be solved any time soon. My health insurance provider just let me know a few days ago that pretty much everything they know about me was probably taken. What Philip's is going to do with my data is a small drop in the bucket at this point.
When I was younger, I cared a lot more. But nothing got that much better. And, when it did, some new technology or way of collecting data came along to be that much more invasive. At this point, I'm just apathetic about the whole thing. Combine that with laziness and it's pretty easy to decide not caring will lead to a happier, less stressful life.
As someone who went the opposite direction, and as such is probably more stressed and less happy, the most depressing part is probably that almost everyone I know has the same answer to that...
As someone who went the opposite direction, and as such is probably more stressed and less happy, the most depressing part is probably that almost everyone I know has the same answer to that question as you, and yet you all feel like the main reason nothing could change is that nobody else cares. Damn if shit, particularly political shit, doesn't seem unnecessarily hard sometimes.
Jesus fucking Christ how is that not a huge deal to regulators? Personally identifiable information is one thing, but medical records feels so much worse. I’m sorry that you just put up with that...
My health insurance provider just let me know a few days ago that pretty much everything they know about me was probably taken
Jesus fucking Christ how is that not a huge deal to regulators? Personally identifiable information is one thing, but medical records feels so much worse.
I’m sorry that you just put up with that shit. I feel like there should be a huge penalty for just having that information not locked the fuck down, but I suspect it will basically have no effect.
Posted about this in another thread, but I'm seriously bothered by how many devices require internet access. Some of us do not have reliable access, especially in rural locations. As a side note,...
Posted about this in another thread, but I'm seriously bothered by how many devices require internet access. Some of us do not have reliable access, especially in rural locations.
As a side note, I'm not trying to imply that there's some sort of maliciousness behind this, or that the companies are doing this because they want your data or are trying to screw you over; my assumption is that it's just the trend and so there's not much thought behind it, and that it's probably the easiest way for them to engineer their products. I'm only saying I wish the trend had gone in a different trajectory, because it leaves a lot of us in the dust. Same with products that rely on mobile apps; some of us simply do not have good phones or can not afford them, or just don't like having phones on all the time. It's very limiting.
In the case of Philips, which we're discussing here, it's quite clear that Philips does want our data. From what I read in this article, their devices worked quite well without being connected to...
I'm not trying to imply that there's some sort of maliciousness behind this, or that the companies are doing this because they want your data
In the case of Philips, which we're discussing here, it's quite clear that Philips does want our data. From what I read in this article, their devices worked quite well without being connected to the cloudPhilips' own file servers, and now they're making a change to require all users to connect all their Philips lightbulbs to the cloudPhilips' own file servers. That certainly looks like a data grab to me!
Sorry for missing this. Oof. To be honest, the skeptical + pessimistic (realistic?) side of me says it usually is malicious/intentional... I'm just trying to curb my own biases and think of...
Sorry for missing this. Oof. To be honest, the skeptical + pessimistic (realistic?) side of me says it usually is malicious/intentional... I'm just trying to curb my own biases and think of alternative reasons why this stuff happens. (I have realized recently that I have a hate boner for most all corporations, and tend to assume the worst about any of their actions, but I've realized that's just as biased as giving them all a free pass. I see now how many crappy actions by corporations are really most based on very little thought and even flat out incompetence rather than someone twisting their mustache.)
That said - if this really is an intentional data grab, how sad. It's light bulbs! Again, it just makes me deeply uncomfortable to see the direction things are going. And it's getting so difficult to distance myself from companies and products like this, because so often it seems they are all converging to these strategies.
I've got a bunch of Hue bulbs and have been pretty happy with them, so I was alarmed when I first saw this headline. But upon reading into it a bit, I'm not really certain what I'm supposed to be...
I've got a bunch of Hue bulbs and have been pretty happy with them, so I was alarmed when I first saw this headline. But upon reading into it a bit, I'm not really certain what I'm supposed to be alarmed about.
They want users to create an account? Is that requirement really that big of a deal that people would leave the whole ecosystem over it?
Yes it is, working offline is a hard requirement for any device I buy. This is because if an online account is required, you don't own the device: the company can shut down their servers, or...
Yes it is, working offline is a hard requirement for any device I buy. This is because if an online account is required, you don't own the device: the company can shut down their servers, or retroactively force a paid subscription not to brick your device.
I try to keep my devices for 5+ years to reduce my e-waste, and planning for that is impossible when you have no guarantee about what the next forced update will bring.
I've never seen the point in buying any "smart" device and thereby handing my personal and household data to some large corporation. I know that's an old-fashioned point of view, which will die...
I've never seen the point in buying any "smart" device and thereby handing my personal and household data to some large corporation. I know that's an old-fashioned point of view, which will die out with people of my generation who grew up before tech companies got their claws into everything. But I'm going to hold on to my privacy for as long as I can.
The bulbs (and other leaf devices) do not have direct access to the Internet. They only speak Zigbee (well, some speak Bluetooth as well), and if not connected to a device that specifically...
The bulbs (and other leaf devices) do not have direct access to the Internet. They only speak Zigbee (well, some speak Bluetooth as well), and if not connected to a device that specifically forwards certain information over the Internet (i.e. Philips's hub), they are physically incapable of connecting to an IP network.
Those people would have been wrong, and probably didn't do a very good job researching if they came to that conclusion, as the Hue bulbs have always had this cloud capability. This is a reduction...
Those people would have been wrong, and probably didn't do a very good job researching if they came to that conclusion, as the Hue bulbs have always had this cloud capability. This is a reduction in featureset from "control online or with a local controller" to just "control online".
As I've mentioned occasionally before, it's currently possible to use Hue bulbs as "raw" Zigbee bulbs, no hub in (network) sight. I do this, because Philips's hardware is of middling to decent...
As I've mentioned occasionally before, it's currently possible to use Hue bulbs as "raw" Zigbee bulbs, no hub in (network) sight. I do this, because Philips's hardware is of middling to decent quality (which makes it absolutely stand out in an endless ocean of cheap off-brand garbage) and I don't connect devices running software I don't completely control to my network. I have the bulbs talking directly to a Homeassistant instance running on my homeserver. In this configuration, obviously the bulbs have no communication outside the Zigbee network, and so Philips doesn't know them from a hole in the ground.
So, my question is: is there any indication whether this mode of functionality is likely to be impacted with newer firmware revisions? If not, I'm not personally affected, and I would strongly suggest that everyone with a hub serving as an intermediary in their home automation setup ditch it to bypass the issue. (Though from a policy perspective, this is stupid and despicable, and I will, and suggest that everyone else, boycott Philips for it.)
I used my Hue bulbs with a Hue hub for years (which was then connected via the Hue integration to Home Assistant/Homekit). A while ago I got tired of the Hue app and the Hue Hub’s reliability and...
I used my Hue bulbs with a Hue hub for years (which was then connected via the Hue integration to Home Assistant/Homekit). A while ago I got tired of the Hue app and the Hue Hub’s reliability and bought a $30 Zigbee adapter and just connected all my lights directly to Home Assistant.
If they go through with this change, it wouldn’t surprise me if future versions of their bulbs shipped with firmware that only let them connect to Hue Hubs instead of any generic Zigbee controller.
You can use it with Apple’s Home app/Homekit. Basically, I use Home Assistant as a pass through to Apple. They have a plugin that lets you pass any device in Home Assistant to Apple’s HomeKit. So...
You can use it with Apple’s Home app/Homekit. Basically, I use Home Assistant as a pass through to Apple. They have a plugin that lets you pass any device in Home Assistant to Apple’s HomeKit.
You'll need some sort of hardware capable of running Home Assistant. You can put it on a spare RPi (that's the approach I took), or on a VM or Docker container on a PC, or on dedicated hardware....
You'll need some sort of hardware capable of running Home Assistant. You can put it on a spare RPi (that's the approach I took), or on a VM or Docker container on a PC, or on dedicated hardware.
You'll also need a Zigbee coordinator stick - these are fairly easy to come by. I recommend Sonoff's dongle, or the SkyConnect if you think you might want Matter support later. Note that the above-linked Home Assistant Yellow comes with a Zigbee coordinator on the board, so you don't need extra hardware.
From there, you just need to go through the setup for Home Assistant, which is fairly straightforward, and then you'll be good to go!
This is why I bought an ESP board for $20, loaded it with WLED and hacked together some cheap strips and a power supply. WLED has given me basically all the functionality of a Hue system over my...
This is why I bought an ESP board for $20, loaded it with WLED and hacked together some cheap strips and a power supply.
WLED has given me basically all the functionality of a Hue system over my local network, it has lots of effects and features. It's mine indefinitely and I have control over its accessability.
What I still don't understand is if I don't create an account, will anything change for me? I just use my lights and switches at home so don't need remote access.
What I still don't understand is if I don't create an account, will anything change for me? I just use my lights and switches at home so don't need remote access.
Without an account, you'll soon be unable to use the app to add a new bulb or a new dimmer switch to your hub, or even change your scene settings. So far so good, until one bulb breaks and you...
Without an account, you'll soon be unable to use the app to add a new bulb or a new dimmer switch to your hub, or even change your scene settings. So far so good, until one bulb breaks and you have to replace it.
Since they have not yet taken away the local API, open-source projects will emerge to offer an alternative admin interface, but I'm not taking my chances. I already have a zigbee emitter on my home server, so I'll progressively move my bulbs and switches out of the hub and directly managed by the computer. Then the hub will be more e-waste caused by capitalist greed.
Another reminder that if a device cannot run without internet access, you don't own that device after paying for it. You pay for a revocable usage right of a service whose characteristics can change without notice.
I bought a Hue hub and several bulbs 6 years ago and love them. I'm not using the app as I go through my Domoticz server, so I will not get the firmware upgrade and be locked out of my device. But without the app I won't be able to register new bulbs. Guess who won't buy any new bulb?
Hue was something I heavily recommended to all of my friends, I will definitely make sure they know about this idiotic decision.
As someone that has never had a "smart bulb" or any "smart home" devices, can you share with me why you elected to get these and why you like them so much (prior to this privacy issue)?
I work from home in my living room, so the killer feature of these bulbs is the ability to change the color temperature and brightness to match the mood:
I achieved this with Hue switches, as they can switch between different scenes with repeat presses. Except IKEA, most other smart bulb brands don't sell physical controls, and require you to use your phone. The quality of these light + the offline operations via physical switches are why I recommended them.
I first bought the full-color bulbs, but they are not worth the price. The second set I bought were the "white ambience" ones, that only cover cold & warm whites.
Not OP, but I bought a few (not Phillips Hue though) and there's probably a couple reasons I chose to get smart bulbs.
First reason is partly for context, they were relatively cheap compared to my disposable income. There's lots of things that were relatively cheap compared to my disposable income, and I didn't buy all of those things, so clearly that alone isn't reason enough.
Second reason was potential versatility of brightness. In the room I'm currently in, I have them in the ceiling fixture and I have the brightness set to 1%. I can change the brightness to whatever I want though. The brightness at 100% is far too much for me to normally be able to handle and creates more glare on my monitors. I'll usually only set it to that if I'm doing something in the room that I need to be able to see small things more clearly. Otherwise I might use varying degrees of brightness depending on what I'm doing in the room, but if all I'm doing is sitting at my desk staring at monitors, I don't really want bright lights around me.
Third reason was probably just the gimmicky elements of it and initial fun of the gimmick, even if it wasn't lasting. I can change the colors to whatever I want, or possibly set some kind of automations etc. but I didn't really need these.
Ultimately the second reason is what makes it most worth it for me. With standard bulbs, I'd either have to choose a specific wattage that isn't too bright that I can tolerate having the lights on most of the time, or just keep the lights off 99% of the time and sit in darkness and only turn the lights on when I really need to see something. Before smart bulbs, this type of dimming functionality existed but only if you had specific wiring and control devices to accomplish it. That's really not applicable in many situations, and far more costly to add when its not already there.
In my bedroom I also have them in there and it's similar reasons, the brightness. If I'm lying in bed awake and not trying to sleep, with normal lights in the ceiling fixture I have bright lights shining directly into my eyes (it's a ceiling fan with glass fixtures that aren't fully enclosed). Added bonus is I don't have to get up to turn on/off the lights.
I can't speak to pre-smart bulb, but LED compatible dimming switches are commonplace, cheap, require no special wiring, and have been for at least the last 5 years as I've replaced all of the switches in my 1950's built home with no wiring changes since we purchased the house as I too like to adjust light level based on what I'm doing.
I live in an apartment so I suspect they would not take kindly to switching them out as they generally prefer to keep things all the same across all apartments even in situations where it might not be difficult or costly to switch something out.
However it's good to know that you don't need to switch any wiring out. I wasn't aware of that. My parents home has a dedicated dimmer control that is separate from the light switches. Perhaps that made me believe it was something that was necessary in some cases.
That is a fair point, landlords don't take kindly to modifications even if they'd be for the better.
Separate dimmers are something I've encountered, but dimmers being a part of the switch itself is far more common.
Very easy to dim LED bulbs, at least for lights that you are manually plugging in. Plug in dimmer. Just make sure to get bulbs that are compatible with the dimmers (or vice versa, to find a dimmer compatible with your bulb.) Not all dimmers work with all LED bulbs. (Most of my overhead lights are not wired into the ceiling, so this has been useful for me, personally.)
I can see the issue for sockets that are wired into your ceiling however. I've never done this, but I'd be curious how difficult it is to install the dimmers into the wall. (Not encouraging anyone do DIY electrical work, if you've never done so... that's one area to maintain extreme caution :) )
There are wall switches that are also dimmers, replacing the existing light switch. That's usually what you'd want for dimming ceiling lights.
I was unaware of this - thanks. I will have to look into those. Any in particular you (or anyone else) recommends? My experience has been that you have to be really precise about which dimmers you use with which bulbs when it comes to dimmable LEDs. I didn't realize this until I got a few and they just didn't work. After calling a few manufacturers, apparently the manufacturers of LED dimmers tend to publish lists of which bulbs have been tested with their dimmers, so you can match your bulbs up to it.
I don't recall the exact reason behind this any longer, but if I remember, it was something along the lines of there being two different engineering approaches to LED dimmers (or maybe to dimmable bulbs?) and so if you get bulbs/dimmers that are mismatched, they won't work well together. This could be complete BS, it's just a vague memory of what I recall, and I could be recalling it wrong.
Yeah that sounds about right for LEDs. My dad is a sparky so I remember we always had whatever features we wanted throughout the house, and prior to LED or fluorescent bulbs, regular incandescent lights were so simple that you could replace the regular light switch with a dimmer and never even tough the light fittings in the room.
Nowadays, with fluros and LEDs, it’s a lot more complicated. My dad has since built and wired his own house with a full “smart home” wiring system in place, so I’m not sure that what I’ve seen him installing is relevant to the general case.
Huh, never came across those plug in dimmers before, but I guess I was never in a situation where I was motivated to look for them. Good to know such a solution exists. Price-wise it isn't much better than some smart bulbs on sale, but could be a good fit for some situations. Of course as this topic and many other newsworthy events in the past have highlighted, many of the ones going on sale in a way are subsidized by the nature of them being tied to the cloud and those companies intending to leverage that to get more money that way, so it's not really fair to compare them on price to the item you mentioned.
I've seen these before. I haven't done it before but I'd probably feel comfortable trying if I was inclined. Even if I was inclined to DIY electrical work if I had my own home, wouldn't be suitable for someone in my current situation as I'm renting an apartment. Granted your plug in dimmer solution would still be acceptable for apartment use, but mentioning the apartment situation does show that smart bulbs do offer some versatility that other solutions don't have.
For sure. I'm not trying to say the plug in dimmers are the better options. Just highlighting that they are there. Personally, I don't want/can't use smart devices as my internet availability is poor, and more importantly I don't always have access to a phone (nor do I like having my phone on often). So I have had to find some "non-smart device" solutions to things, and just wanted to share, in case anyone else is in my situation. I'm assuming over time everything will become smart devices, so I'm not sure what I will do then.
This is why I have lamps in most of my rooms, with lightbulbs of a lower wattage than the main lightbulbs in the ceiling light. I turn on the main room light when I want bright room-wide illumination; I turn on the lamp when I want dimmer indirect illumination. The lamp in my living room is dimmable, as is the lamp in my bedroom. The lamp in my study has two bulbs that operate on independent switches, so I can have either one on, or both on.
I use Phillips Wiz bulbs.
I bought one to mess with and because the kids thought it would be cool. I bought a good handful more because they were on clearance for 5 CAD each for dimmable non color changing ones.
I basically use them just as dimmers for use as night lights. I also had the idea of putting a bunch in my hallway connected to Home-Assistant to turn on dim when I come home at night (I work random shifts often) but I haven't followed through with that.
I do have privacy concerns and I really do care about that stuff but it requires no wiring or extra hardware (smart switches are expensive); the ability for an ESP32 in a lightbulb to spy on me is minimal; they work as dumb bulbs (so if wiz disappears they still work); and they were almost as cheap as regular bulbs when I got them at a steep discount.
I initially got smart bulbs to get around annoying wiring setups. I live in a 60 year old house, so I have single switches which control the ceiling fans and lights. Turn off the light, you turn off the fan. My living room has no built in lights and no switch to control outlets/floor lamps.
Smart bulbs were easier for me than changing wiring. I ended up going a little fancier, the living room lights turn off when the tv plays and on when the tv turns off. Several of the houses lights switch on at sunset and off later if they haven’t been switched off. I hadn’t considered when I set this up that it makes for a decent vacation setup, the house still looks occupied when we aren’t at home for an evening or a week.
Another "not hue" but other smart bulb user. One great feature that is just easier than the manual alternatives is setting timers for lights to come on / off at specific times while you're out or on holiday.
It's easy to do, and you can check when you're away that the lights did actually come on at the time you wanted etc.
Just as an FYI - there are color-changing bulbs where you can control brightness, even occasionally color temperature, which don't require a hub or internet access. They are bulbs that are remote operated. My home is filled with these, among other lights. It's true you will need to manually change them, but to me I'm not bothered by that.
Warning: lumens tend to be low on these bulbs (I rarely see color-changing bulbs with greater than 800 lumens; they will claim 1000-1200 lumens but I don't believe it..). You would not want to use them as your sole light source, however, I am assuming the smart bulbs are also limited in this way.
In my home I have chosen the following setup:
I have multiple overhead lights that are very bright (1600+ lumens) and dimmable. I have them in an assortment of color temperatures (warm white [around 3500k], and "daylight" white [around 5000k+])
Several lower-intensity (600-800 lumen) color-changing bulbs (also dimmable)
In the morning upon waking, I turn on my "super bright" daylight color temp bulbs. Around mid-afternoon, I switch these off and turn on my softer white (3500k) bulbs. After sunset, I either dim the soft white bulbs, or I switch them off and switch on my color changing bulbs, setting them on a softer white or yellow. About 4 hours before sleep, I turn my color-changing bulbs to red.
This probably sounds insane and annoying, but I started doing this over the course of 2 years, as I realized how much it helped with my sleep and fatigue levels. Oddly, it turned out later on that my incredible daytime fatigue was actually due to very low iron levels which I've since gotten corrected, but during those 2 years where my iron was so low and I was so tired, light was my only refuge from miserable fatigue (it didn't fix it, but at least it helped a little bit). All that said, the appropriate lighting still makes a big difference on my sleep (it's just that I'm not so dependent on it) and so I've stayed with this routine.
In case anyone is interested in the non-smart (remote controlled) color-changing bulbs, here are the bulbs I use:
Yangcsl color-changing bulbs with remote (can't switch the color temperature)
GE LED+ color-changing bulbs with remote (you can switch the color temperature on white which is very helpful)
Again, these bulbs are not super bright. As for regular, brighter (higher lumen) LED bulbs, you can find these anywhere. Look at both the lumens (brightness), and color temperature ("type" of whiteness) of the bulbs. Note: just because a bulb is dimmable doesn't mean it will work with every dimmer; LED bulbs don't work the same, and generally won't work with oldschool dimmers. You will need to do your due dilligence and find bulbs and dimmers that work together.
Warning: Be careful with super bright bulbs (very high lumens). Of course, never look directly into these lights. Make sure all overhead lighting like this as some sort of shade over it so that you're not glimpsing the bulb. I used these
I'm not saying it's optimal. i'm saying it's pretty much the option if you don't want smart devices, which not all of us do (or are capable of utilizing, due to limitations with our phones or wifi).
Personally, I bought a couple sets of the same type of bulbs (so for example, I have 8 of "bulb A" and 8 of "bulb B"). All 8 of "bulb A" can use the same remote, and all 8 of "bulb B" can use the same remote, so I have 2 remotes in total. I labeled each remote so it's impossible to mix them but, but they look so different that it wasn't necessary (I just like labeling things :) ). Never been a hassle for me.
The nice thing was that the sets of bulbs included a single remote for each bulb (I guess supposing that people would use them in different rooms, and wouldn't want to take remotes from room to room), so I have tons of backups in case one remote goes bad (which I've never had happen.)
Obviously, this is only for the color changing LED bulbs; the regular LED bulbs don't have remotes. So yeah, 2 remotes in total, not a big deal for me personally. I put them on top of my desk and never misplace them.
I semi-recently replaced my smart lights with Phillips Hue bulbs, but for a hub I use a Sonoff ZigBee dongle connected to my home server running Home Assistant. My only concern is that theoretically they could put out a firmware update for the bulbs so that they refuse to connect to a non-Hue hub. So I guess I have to be careful before updating the firmware on them now.
Honestly, so long as the offline bit continues to work for when my internet goes out, I don't particularly care about the data thing. I gave up on caring what company has my data, what profile they're building with it, or who they sell it to a long time ago. It takes far too much time, effort, and compromises to deal with keeping my personal information safe. Even assuming I do everything perfect, many places that have to keep private information about me are one data breech away from giving up tons of my personal info and I had no control over it.
Can I ask why your conclusion was to stop caring instead of trying to push for political change?
For political change to work, there'd have to be a large percentage of the population that actually cares about data privacy. And, I don't know about you, but I don't see a large push for it outside a very vocal minority of internet users. I can't think of anyone I know personally that cares what companies are collecting about them. Granted, I live in rural Ohio, so my circle of acquaintances aren't exactly a representative sample, but I can't imagine it's very different in most other places. At least not to a degree that would matter to force any kind of political solution to this.
But, if I'm being perfectly honest, I'm just lazy. I could push for political change, but not doing so is easier. And even if I did, the matter of data being stolen is still an issue that's not going to be solved any time soon. My health insurance provider just let me know a few days ago that pretty much everything they know about me was probably taken. What Philip's is going to do with my data is a small drop in the bucket at this point.
When I was younger, I cared a lot more. But nothing got that much better. And, when it did, some new technology or way of collecting data came along to be that much more invasive. At this point, I'm just apathetic about the whole thing. Combine that with laziness and it's pretty easy to decide not caring will lead to a happier, less stressful life.
As someone who went the opposite direction, and as such is probably more stressed and less happy, the most depressing part is probably that almost everyone I know has the same answer to that question as you, and yet you all feel like the main reason nothing could change is that nobody else cares. Damn if shit, particularly political shit, doesn't seem unnecessarily hard sometimes.
Jesus fucking Christ how is that not a huge deal to regulators? Personally identifiable information is one thing, but medical records feels so much worse.
I’m sorry that you just put up with that shit. I feel like there should be a huge penalty for just having that information not locked the fuck down, but I suspect it will basically have no effect.
Posted about this in another thread, but I'm seriously bothered by how many devices require internet access. Some of us do not have reliable access, especially in rural locations.
As a side note, I'm not trying to imply that there's some sort of maliciousness behind this, or that the companies are doing this because they want your data or are trying to screw you over; my assumption is that it's just the trend and so there's not much thought behind it, and that it's probably the easiest way for them to engineer their products. I'm only saying I wish the trend had gone in a different trajectory, because it leaves a lot of us in the dust. Same with products that rely on mobile apps; some of us simply do not have good phones or can not afford them, or just don't like having phones on all the time. It's very limiting.
In the case of Philips, which we're discussing here, it's quite clear that Philips does want our data. From what I read in this article, their devices worked quite well without being connected to
the cloudPhilips' own file servers, and now they're making a change to require all users to connect all their Philips lightbulbs tothe cloudPhilips' own file servers. That certainly looks like a data grab to me!Sorry for missing this. Oof. To be honest, the skeptical + pessimistic (realistic?) side of me says it usually is malicious/intentional... I'm just trying to curb my own biases and think of alternative reasons why this stuff happens. (I have realized recently that I have a hate boner for most all corporations, and tend to assume the worst about any of their actions, but I've realized that's just as biased as giving them all a free pass. I see now how many crappy actions by corporations are really most based on very little thought and even flat out incompetence rather than someone twisting their mustache.)
That said - if this really is an intentional data grab, how sad. It's light bulbs! Again, it just makes me deeply uncomfortable to see the direction things are going. And it's getting so difficult to distance myself from companies and products like this, because so often it seems they are all converging to these strategies.
I've got a bunch of Hue bulbs and have been pretty happy with them, so I was alarmed when I first saw this headline. But upon reading into it a bit, I'm not really certain what I'm supposed to be alarmed about.
They want users to create an account? Is that requirement really that big of a deal that people would leave the whole ecosystem over it?
Yes it is, working offline is a hard requirement for any device I buy. This is because if an online account is required, you don't own the device: the company can shut down their servers, or retroactively force a paid subscription not to brick your device.
This is not hypothetical, it happened with "smart" sous-vide machines, crafting machines and alarm systems, to name just a few examples.
I try to keep my devices for 5+ years to reduce my e-waste, and planning for that is impossible when you have no guarantee about what the next forced update will bring.
I've never seen the point in buying any "smart" device and thereby handing my personal and household data to some large corporation. I know that's an old-fashioned point of view, which will die out with people of my generation who grew up before tech companies got their claws into everything. But I'm going to hold on to my privacy for as long as I can.
Plenty of smart devices that are 100% local. None of my switches or lights or sensors have direct access to the Internet.
I'm sure people who bought the Philips Hue lights would have said the same thing... until now.
The bulbs (and other leaf devices) do not have direct access to the Internet. They only speak Zigbee (well, some speak Bluetooth as well), and if not connected to a device that specifically forwards certain information over the Internet (i.e. Philips's hub), they are physically incapable of connecting to an IP network.
Those people would have been wrong, and probably didn't do a very good job researching if they came to that conclusion, as the Hue bulbs have always had this cloud capability. This is a reduction in featureset from "control online or with a local controller" to just "control online".
As I've mentioned occasionally before, it's currently possible to use Hue bulbs as "raw" Zigbee bulbs, no hub in (network) sight. I do this, because Philips's hardware is of middling to decent quality (which makes it absolutely stand out in an endless ocean of cheap off-brand garbage) and I don't connect devices running software I don't completely control to my network. I have the bulbs talking directly to a Homeassistant instance running on my homeserver. In this configuration, obviously the bulbs have no communication outside the Zigbee network, and so Philips doesn't know them from a hole in the ground.
So, my question is: is there any indication whether this mode of functionality is likely to be impacted with newer firmware revisions? If not, I'm not personally affected, and I would strongly suggest that everyone with a hub serving as an intermediary in their home automation setup ditch it to bypass the issue. (Though from a policy perspective, this is stupid and despicable, and I will, and suggest that everyone else, boycott Philips for it.)
I used my Hue bulbs with a Hue hub for years (which was then connected via the Hue integration to Home Assistant/Homekit). A while ago I got tired of the Hue app and the Hue Hub’s reliability and bought a $30 Zigbee adapter and just connected all my lights directly to Home Assistant.
If they go through with this change, it wouldn’t surprise me if future versions of their bulbs shipped with firmware that only let them connect to Hue Hubs instead of any generic Zigbee controller.
Is this "Apple" or can it be adapted for use within Apple ecosystem?
You can use it with Apple’s Home app/Homekit. Basically, I use Home Assistant as a pass through to Apple. They have a plugin that lets you pass any device in Home Assistant to Apple’s HomeKit.
So it’s Hue Bulbs -> Home Assistant -> HomeKit.
You need a raspberry pi or anything extraneous for that? Can you hint towards the product (zigbee adapter) you ended up going with?
You'll need some sort of hardware capable of running Home Assistant. You can put it on a spare RPi (that's the approach I took), or on a VM or Docker container on a PC, or on dedicated hardware.
You'll also need a Zigbee coordinator stick - these are fairly easy to come by. I recommend Sonoff's dongle, or the SkyConnect if you think you might want Matter support later. Note that the above-linked Home Assistant Yellow comes with a Zigbee coordinator on the board, so you don't need extra hardware.
From there, you just need to go through the setup for Home Assistant, which is fairly straightforward, and then you'll be good to go!
I have that same Sonoff dongle and it’s rock solid.
This is why I bought an ESP board for $20, loaded it with WLED and hacked together some cheap strips and a power supply.
WLED has given me basically all the functionality of a Hue system over my local network, it has lots of effects and features. It's mine indefinitely and I have control over its accessability.
What I still don't understand is if I don't create an account, will anything change for me? I just use my lights and switches at home so don't need remote access.
Without an account, you'll soon be unable to use the app to add a new bulb or a new dimmer switch to your hub, or even change your scene settings. So far so good, until one bulb breaks and you have to replace it.
Since they have not yet taken away the local API, open-source projects will emerge to offer an alternative admin interface, but I'm not taking my chances. I already have a zigbee emitter on my home server, so I'll progressively move my bulbs and switches out of the hub and directly managed by the computer. Then the hub will be more e-waste caused by capitalist greed.
Has anyone ever gotten around to reverse engineering these or the firmware files/updates?