Seeking advice for solving USB-C hell on new laptop
Edit: I changed some windows settings based on advice here. The situation is improved and I am going to see how things go before buying new equipment. Thank you everyone
So I recently bought a new laptop. I use an external mouse, keyboard, headphones etc, all of which come with usb A connectors that worked well with my old laptop.
When the new laptop arrived there weren't nearly enough ports for either usb A or usb c so I invested in a peripheral that links four usb a connections to one usb c connection on the laptop. Edit, it is powered and plugged in. Now the connection with everything plugged in seems to be intermittent and the mouse and external keyboard don't work reliably.
I have read a couple of articles and I am even more confused but they seem to be saying that usb c is not plug and play the way usb a was. What the fuck. Why do this like this? What do I do now?
I just spent significant money on this computer and I don't want to replace a functioning mouse and keyboard
Instinctively I would say it sounds like there isn't enough power on your USB port to power all of that stuff. What happens when you maintain the setup but unplug some devices from the peripheral in question?
I will check.
But if that's the case, why design a laptop with not enough ports? It's hardly revolutionary to expect to plug in a mouse, keyboard and headphones to a laptop. I'm not even using a second monitor.
I'm sure a lot of people use the built in keyboard and trackpad on a laptop, and would never encounter such an issue. But laptops also tend to be set up to aggressively manage power consumption, as a way to improve battery usage. There might be settings in software you can change to improve the power supply to your USB port.
I'm a VR user so I'm used to the massive and recurring headaches caused by USB power shenanigans even on a desktop PC.
Keep in mind that if the culprit is power and you don't find a way to fix the problem through software you could always try a powered USB hub (with its own power supply).
The other side is that most offices (a situation where most people do use a mouse and keyboard) tend to have docking stations, which also solves the problem - one box can have as many USB ports as you need, as well as connections for all the displays you're using, headphones, etc.
So laptops tend to be either used at a desk with a docking station where only one port is necessary, or on a lap/portably, where people tend not to use peripherals. The result is that there's not as much need for ports all over the place. Add to this the height on the chassis that these ports typically take up, and you end up with this situation.
Since many many people work from home offices, why are there articles not written about the need for what you call a docking station? Honestly I would have bought that instead of a hub if I had been aware of the need.
To all intents and purposes they’re the same thing - colloquially I’d probably call it a dock if it were physically a bit larger and had (at minimum) a monitor connection and a network port as well as additional USB sockets, but they’re doing broadly the same thing on the inside.
The choice of which to buy is pretty much just a function of the ports you need, and whether it’s labelled as a hub or dock is a function of the marketing department’s mood that day - but yes, if it’s not a settings issue it does seem like you’ve ended up with a version of what you wanted that’s either faulty or actively mis-sold, because using three ports for low draw devices really shouldn’t be an issue for any hub or dock.
Yes.
No. Docks provide power for the primary device. That's the major feature that makes it a dock rather than a hub.
I'd include video through as well, except I have seen hubs that handle DisplayPort video through Thunderbolt, but don't power the primary machine.
I’d be more than pleased if the market respected a distinction like that! The thing is, even within the first page of search I’m seeing hubs with power delivery, docks without it, and an awful lot of listings that use some variation of both words in the title.
The reality of buying the things is that you can’t trust the terminology, so I wouldn’t want to suggest a clear difference either way.
I'm just going by how the OEMs I work with the most clarify things (Dell and Lenovo, mostly). You can throw HP in there as well.
As for your standard Shenzen-spawned crap peddlers, they'll call a dog turd a dock if it'll push more units. I wouldn't pay their classifications any mind.
Any advice re non shitty vendors who sell to individuals? I can't justify a thousand unit order for my home office
You're best off just buying a dock from whoever made your laptop. As much as people here are raving about compatibility across brands, I still see people who have compatibility problems with their docks fairly regularly. Dell and Lenovo both will sell individual docks to consumers, and they aren't prohibitively expensive.
Back in the day, laptops would have model specific dock solutions. Mainly for office setups for people who travel often.
USB hubs (unpowered) have been around for as long as people have wanted to shove too many USB devices into a computer.
Since thunderbolt and USB-C, the line has blurred. You can get double Displayport and Ethernet and USB over a single cable? And it's model agnostic? Hell yeah.
So, there's not droves of articles about home offices needing these because... Well, most people just work off their laptop, ergonomics be damned.
Case in point, I've got multiple monitors sitting unused, boxes of keyboards and mice, and my partner still just uses their work laptop despite my insistence that I'll do all the setup.
I'm sorry to hear that about your partner. If I worked without thinking about ergonomics, I would get carpal tunnel and back and neck pain really quickly. But I don't want to spend for two computers.
Do you have advice for where a nonexpert can read about which usb c devices are compatible with which machines and why? I don't enjoy spending time and effort on this, but I need this functionality one way or another.
I hate that I don't have a zero effort technical manual to provide, most of my knowledge comes from spending too much time (and money) playing with these things!
The best answer I can think of is to start at your laptop's spec sheet, which will say what type of USB-C it claims to be running and cross reference that with what the dongle claims.
Again, your use case is underkill, you shouldn't be having issues. If you can get your hands on another hub just to see if it has the same issues to isolate if it's your computer, devices, or the hub that'd be a better use of time than learning the differences between Thunderbolt 3 and USB-C.
Thank you for useful advice. : )
I have trouble believing people don't care about ergonomics, but you are probably right.
It's more important to mimic Apple and eliminate ports in favor of style than to provide a fully functional device. I keep an old 13" Thinkpad around with an Ethernet port in it, and it's great for troubleshooting networks. Has a built-in SD card reader, 3 USB ports, Displayport and VGA. Oh, and an ExpressCard slot.....just in case...anyhow...
I also suspect its power issues. But I've also had disconnect/reconnect issues on Linux with my powered dock. Sometimes it'll work fine and other times the displayport works but the usb devices don't. I fixed it with a usbreset script that I run whenever the issue crops up. Let me know if that would be helpful.
Thanks. I will get back to you when I have time to tinker.
Personally I use the Keychron Mini 2 mouse. It is wireless and supports USB C for the wireless adapter or can use bluetooth. In the case of bluetooth that means it’s using no ports. You can also get a bluetooth keyboard.
I think for most people if they’re using a laptop they’re either plugging nothing into it or maybe using a mouse. Anything beyond that and you get into full desktop setup territory. You can essentially turn your laptop into a desktop by purchasing a USB C hub which will break out the USB port into a display port (for an external monitor), many USBs, etc. all while simultaneously providing power to the laptop back through the USB C port.
USB C can be really high bandwidth. That means it’s essentially an “everything” port. Which is why laptops have so few ports now. You’re expected to either use the laptop on its own or plug in one cable and expand it into a full desktop configuration. That’s how almost everyone I know works. You take the laptop home from the office and when you come back you plug in the one cable and sit at your desk, using your external keyboard, mouse, monitor, etc. and forget the laptop even exists.
I mean, the reason I have a laptop is that I want to own one computer for all uses. With my old laptop, I had a near desktop setup at home, but I use a box to elevate the laptop screen to an ergonomic height rather than spend space on an extra monitor.
I really don't want to spend more money, but it looks like I have to check whether it's more cost effective to get a powered usb hub or replace all of my peripherals like mouse and keyboard etc.
Now however, I need to learn what I am looking for in a usb c hub. I thought the dock I purchased would be fit for purpose, since why build a dock with so many ports if it's not going to work.
The best powered dock that exists is the Caldigit TS4. But that's way too expensive ($400). The older TS3+ model is as good for 99% of people and can be had for $120 on eBay. That's a thunderbolt dock though, which has the same shape as USB C but is electrically different - so you'd need to make sure you have thunderbolt ports and not just USB C 3 or 4 (this is objectively confusing and kind of a disaster for consumers).
There are a lot of cheap options available but in my experience many of them are poorly made and are more trouble than they are worth. Of course there are surely good options available under $100 - I just don't know enough about the whole market to say which to buy.
Jack of all trades, Master of none. I'm not going to shame you for doing what works for you but you're playing a game of compromises.
A solution may be to spread out the devices? Try moving the keyboard or mouse or any of the other devices to one of the on laptop USB ports and see if that fixes it. You might have to plug in more cables when sitting down but at least it's free!
I get the frustration, and the USB-IF have done a terrible job at communicating how the various USB standards do and don’t work, but even a single USB4 port is far more connectivity than the vast majority of people will ever fully use on a machine bought today. Realistically, the three devices you’re discussing will use less than 10% of the power budget and maybe 0.0001% of the bandwidth on that one port.
With any luck it’ll be fixable with a power setting somewhere in software, but if not I’d make a very strong bet on it being a hub that either doesn’t properly comply with the spec at all, or complies in a way unusual enough that it’s functionally noncompliant by normal user expectations!
Could also be that one or more of the peripherals are out of spec but in a way that was still within the tolerance on the old machine, but in my experience hubs/docks are far worse for that.
In my experience and what I've seen in some other threads, especially in places like r/sysadmin and r/msp and such where they are professionals that deal with this type of equipment on a larger scale, USB-C docks and similar devices can be really unreliable. Certain brands and forms are better than others.
What the other person mentioned is definitely worth considering, the type of connector or dock you have matters. There are external powered ones that can alleviate USB power issues, but those types of docks aren't suitable for all situations. If it's a keyboard and mouse that stays at the desk, along with some other peripherals, these external powered devices would probably be suitable and then have a portable one that just relies on the laptops USB power for other situations.
if you're using Windows, pull up Event Viewer.
if Linux, run
journalctl -efin a terminal window.as @Protected said, power draw on the USB port is the most likely culprit, but logs will tell you for sure.
can you share the model number of the laptop, and of the USB hub? also, are the mouse & keyboard wired, or wireless? the former will tend to have higher power draw, all else being equal.
Everything is wired. I don't like relying on the internet where physical connections are possible.
The laptop is an ASUS Q540 VJ
The usb c dock is j5create - USB 3.0 7-Port HUB - Black
j5create - USB 3.0 7-Port HUB - Black
Model:
JUH377
SKU:
4561575
that hub has an external power supply, which if it's working correctly should rule out the power draw being an issue. is the power cable for the hub plugged in?
but, that hub looks like it uses a USB-A connection to your laptop. are you sure you have the model number correct?
It does have an external power supply. It is plugged in.
The connection is usba at the dock and usb c at the laptop
going by the pictures on their website (which may be inaccurate) the connection at the dock should be USB 3 Micro-B (an odd form factor that you tend to only see with hubs and sometimes external drives). are you using the cable that came with the hub, or a different one? the hub may have logic that tries to handle using a USB-A cable as the uplink cable, but if so I wouldn't be surprised if it's buggy or flaky.
I'd definitely recommend looking through Event Viewer. since it's an intermittent problem, one way to do this is keep a notecard by your laptop, write down the times you notice flakiness, and when you have a couple times written down, you can go look at those spots in Event Viewer to see if there's any pattern of events being logged.
another possibility is to switch the cables around one at a time to see if it's a specific peripheral causing the problem. eg, if you have the mouse, keyboard and headphones all plugged into the hub, pick one and plug it directly into the laptop instead. see if the problem continues to happen.
if you decide to return this hub and try a different one, Anker is a reliable brand that I like a lot.
Thanks! I'm using the cable that came with the hub.
Some ideas:
Are your keyboard and mouse wireless? If so, check the batteries. Also, the dongle might just be too far away or in an unlucky spot signal-wise.
USB prioritizes traffic based on type. Keyboards and mice have guaranteed bandwidth allotments and the USB controller knows to poll them periodically to see if they need to transfer data. So you really shouldn't have problems with them, but I would try moving the mouse and keyboard to the separate USB-A port on a cheap hub by themselves just in case.
If your USB-C hub and or cable is poorly shielded and is using the 3.X standard, it can radiate 2.4 GHz and probably also be impacted by interference from 2.4 GHz. So if you have a wireless keyboard and mouse operating on 2.4 GHz, that could be your problem.
https://www.usb.org/document-library/usb-30-radio-frequency-interference-impact-24-ghz-wireless-devices
As I replied elsewhere, everything is wired. Thanks.
I had a similar issue with a USB hub some time ago — what solved it for me was checking the power settings of the laptop. What happened in my case was that the laptop was going into sleep mode and the USB hub was in a soft lock after waking.
USB A wasn't really plug and play either. The difference is that there's a lot more data transfer protocols that can be run on USB-C, whereas USB A was mainly either USB 2.1 or USB 3.0. USB A or C just describes the shape of the port. Within the shape of the USB C port, depending on the devices being connected and the cable's capability, you can have anywhere from just USB 2.1, to 100W power delivery + 40Gbs data transfer.