Thanks, I looked for a response before posting, but the post wasn't published yet. Edit: Sorry for linking to Reddit, but some of the people involved responded to the posts there. An update on...
Thanks, I looked for a response before posting, but the post wasn't published yet.
Edit:
Sorry for linking to Reddit, but some of the people involved responded to the posts there.
From those links, the quoted board member responds with some more info. Mainly that those quotes are out of context, quite old and about specific issues not a general problem. Honestly, it makes...
From those links, the quoted board member responds with some more info. Mainly that those quotes are out of context, quite old and about specific issues not a general problem. Honestly, it makes Eric seem like an ass and not arguing in good faith.
Wow, I truly assumed that Eric had checked with Joshua before posting those messages, and I thought it was interesting that there was dissent among the Rebble board. The fact that he didn't is, as...
Wow, I truly assumed that Eric had checked with Joshua before posting those messages, and I thought it was interesting that there was dissent among the Rebble board. The fact that he didn't is, as Joshua puts it, gross.
You may well be right, but on the other hand, Eric probably needs to back up things he's saying with evidence, even if the evidence was a private conversation. I can see him expecting to have to...
You may well be right, but on the other hand, Eric probably needs to back up things he's saying with evidence, even if the evidence was a private conversation. I can see him expecting to have to respond quickly or risk the loss of a substantial number of pre-orders, which would likely be a nail in the coffin before this venture even restarted fully.
As much as I support open source and community initiatives to keep dead tech alive, something like this is a big financial risk, which is also worth appreciating.
Both sides have points, and it sucks they're not getting along, that's my primary conclusion here.
Yeah I think I basically agree with you. On a personal level, I would be extremely upset of someone that I considered a friend shared my private messages about my coworkers in public, without so...
Yeah I think I basically agree with you. On a personal level, I would be extremely upset of someone that I considered a friend shared my private messages about my coworkers in public, without so much as a warning. I think that is ultimately a cruel-hearted thing to do, even after being blindsided by a public letter criticizing someone for things they feel they didn't do.
But, like, I'm not trying to be Eric's friend, I'm trying to buy a neat watch. And I imagine that he was very much put on his back foot by the Rebble post, which was also full of ad hominem criticism. The whole thing sucks, and I'm going to try to stop paying attention to it now haha
Overall, I felt like this was a really good post, and was able to actually share what was Rebble's actual concerns. I think the recognition of this from someone at Rebble is quite beneficial. The...
Overall, I felt like this was a really good post, and was able to actually share what was Rebble's actual concerns.
why is the tone of the Rebble post so inflammatory?”. Yeah, hey, that’s a good question! What the hell?
I think the recognition of this from someone at Rebble is quite beneficial. The aggressive nature of Rebble's post forced Eric to have to be on a strong defensive position.
Having now skimmed both of these (Much as I loved my Pebble, used Rebble for years and would love a new Pebble, I'm not that invested here), I feel like this is such an open source community thing...
Having now skimmed both of these (Much as I loved my Pebble, used Rebble for years and would love a new Pebble, I'm not that invested here), I feel like this is such an open source community thing to do. One group or person accuses another of something specific and then the other defends themselves and this rift forms.
Not that open source software is bad or anything, but I feel like I've seen this time and again in the Linux community, the emulator community, the MMO private server community and on and on. Maybe it's not fair to say that it's an open source thing, but it just seems to happen to stuff like this.
All that said, I'm mulling over a Core Pebble, but I think I may be over the Smartwatch thing. I loved my Pebble and tried to replace it when it was good a dead a few years ago and never found anything that felt the same; eventually I bought a cheap, basic Timex Expedition watch and it's been great. The backlight died, but otherwise, I don't have to pay attention to it ever and it just tells me the time and the date with no fuss.
I think it is an open source thing because these kinds of disputes are precisely what non-permissive licenses are built to avoid. Each party is accusing the other of trying to hoard something...
Maybe it's not fair to say that it's an open source thing, but it just seems to happen to stuff like this.
I think it is an open source thing because these kinds of disputes are precisely what non-permissive licenses are built to avoid.
Each party is accusing the other of trying to hoard something (data, an app store, code, etc.) for themselves. In any other business setting, the parties would get to do what they want with what they own. If there’s an ownership dispute, then it would be settled in court or maybe one party would buy the other out.
Instead, they feud publicly and say “no, I’m the one who can really be trusted by the community to maintain this software!” and various accusations get tossed around. It’s precisely because open source blurs the lines of ownership that this kind of dispute is even able to occur.
After reading both blog posts, I feel like this is kind of a mess caused from both sides. I think Rebble seems to be aggressive in claiming ownership of their library that they preserved, when it...
After reading both blog posts, I feel like this is kind of a mess caused from both sides. I think Rebble seems to be aggressive in claiming ownership of their library that they preserved, when it was 3rd party contributions. I think Eric at Core Devices also did some missteps by disclosing personal conversations publicly and out of context. There is also tensions between the slow moving, community focused non-profit of Rebble vs. the quickly iterating, understaffed tech startup of Core Devices.
One thing I don't understand about all this is the concept of "two different app sources would be confusing." This type of argument exists in both of these posts, though Eric's mentions two...
One thing I don't understand about all this is the concept of "two different app sources would be confusing." This type of argument exists in both of these posts, though Eric's mentions two sources for a developer site or source code repository being too confusing.
There's examples of this being successful, usually just targeting different groups. A good number of Android users install apps from F-Droid, even if it's mainly those who are more tech-savvy. Outside of the "app" world, perhaps the best part of desktop software is that there is no singular source. Sure, Steam is the leader for game downloads, but it's not the only way to go - game devs/publishers can choose from a variety of options or even self-distribute. And when was the last time you downloaded a windows application from the Microsoft Store, with the exception of Minecraft?
I thought "openness" was the whole point. Arguing against that drags everyone through the mud. We've got examples from today that too much centralization is a problem (Cloudflare, GitHub).
Bottom line seems to be that Rebble is being obstructionist and a bad partner to work with Their data came from scrapes and if they actually care about archival it should be made public so...
Bottom line seems to be that Rebble is being obstructionist and a bad partner to work with
And what we want in return is simple: if we give Core access to our data, we want to make sure they’re not just going to build a walled garden app store around our hard work.
Their data came from scrapes and if they actually care about archival it should be made public so multiple backups can exist. What they are accusing is the same as what they're doing
They scraped in response to everything being shut down. I don't think saving a closing project is the same thing as scraping from a group that is still active and wants to be part of the process.
They scraped in response to everything being shut down. I don't think saving a closing project is the same thing as scraping from a group that is still active and wants to be part of the process.
Helps to read both sides of the story.
https://ericmigi.com/blog/pebble-rebble-and-a-path-forward
Thanks, I looked for a response before posting, but the post wasn't published yet.
Edit:
Sorry for linking to Reddit, but some of the people involved responded to the posts there.
An update on Rebble's attempted collaboration with Core Devices
Pebble, Rebble, and a path forward
Edit 2:
A new blog post by Joshua from Rebble.
Some personal thoughts on this whole mess
Edit 3:
New posts by both parties. This will probably the last major update for at least a while.
How to build a smartwatch: Software - Setting expectations & roadmap
Rebble in your own world
From those links, the quoted board member responds with some more info. Mainly that those quotes are out of context, quite old and about specific issues not a general problem. Honestly, it makes Eric seem like an ass and not arguing in good faith.
Wow, I truly assumed that Eric had checked with Joshua before posting those messages, and I thought it was interesting that there was dissent among the Rebble board. The fact that he didn't is, as Joshua puts it, gross.
You may well be right, but on the other hand, Eric probably needs to back up things he's saying with evidence, even if the evidence was a private conversation. I can see him expecting to have to respond quickly or risk the loss of a substantial number of pre-orders, which would likely be a nail in the coffin before this venture even restarted fully.
As much as I support open source and community initiatives to keep dead tech alive, something like this is a big financial risk, which is also worth appreciating.
Both sides have points, and it sucks they're not getting along, that's my primary conclusion here.
Yeah I think I basically agree with you. On a personal level, I would be extremely upset of someone that I considered a friend shared my private messages about my coworkers in public, without so much as a warning. I think that is ultimately a cruel-hearted thing to do, even after being blindsided by a public letter criticizing someone for things they feel they didn't do.
But, like, I'm not trying to be Eric's friend, I'm trying to buy a neat watch. And I imagine that he was very much put on his back foot by the Rebble post, which was also full of ad hominem criticism. The whole thing sucks, and I'm going to try to stop paying attention to it now haha
Joshua (the friend whose text messages Eric shared screenshots of) wrote his own blog post. I found it measured, reasonable, and reassuring.
Overall, I felt like this was a really good post, and was able to actually share what was Rebble's actual concerns.
I think the recognition of this from someone at Rebble is quite beneficial. The aggressive nature of Rebble's post forced Eric to have to be on a strong defensive position.
Thanks for sharing
Having now skimmed both of these (Much as I loved my Pebble, used Rebble for years and would love a new Pebble, I'm not that invested here), I feel like this is such an open source community thing to do. One group or person accuses another of something specific and then the other defends themselves and this rift forms.
Not that open source software is bad or anything, but I feel like I've seen this time and again in the Linux community, the emulator community, the MMO private server community and on and on. Maybe it's not fair to say that it's an open source thing, but it just seems to happen to stuff like this.
All that said, I'm mulling over a Core Pebble, but I think I may be over the Smartwatch thing. I loved my Pebble and tried to replace it when it was good a dead a few years ago and never found anything that felt the same; eventually I bought a cheap, basic Timex Expedition watch and it's been great. The backlight died, but otherwise, I don't have to pay attention to it ever and it just tells me the time and the date with no fuss.
I think it is an open source thing because these kinds of disputes are precisely what non-permissive licenses are built to avoid.
Each party is accusing the other of trying to hoard something (data, an app store, code, etc.) for themselves. In any other business setting, the parties would get to do what they want with what they own. If there’s an ownership dispute, then it would be settled in court or maybe one party would buy the other out.
Instead, they feud publicly and say “no, I’m the one who can really be trusted by the community to maintain this software!” and various accusations get tossed around. It’s precisely because open source blurs the lines of ownership that this kind of dispute is even able to occur.
After reading both blog posts, I feel like this is kind of a mess caused from both sides. I think Rebble seems to be aggressive in claiming ownership of their library that they preserved, when it was 3rd party contributions. I think Eric at Core Devices also did some missteps by disclosing personal conversations publicly and out of context. There is also tensions between the slow moving, community focused non-profit of Rebble vs. the quickly iterating, understaffed tech startup of Core Devices.
One thing I don't understand about all this is the concept of "two different app sources would be confusing." This type of argument exists in both of these posts, though Eric's mentions two sources for a developer site or source code repository being too confusing.
There's examples of this being successful, usually just targeting different groups. A good number of Android users install apps from F-Droid, even if it's mainly those who are more tech-savvy. Outside of the "app" world, perhaps the best part of desktop software is that there is no singular source. Sure, Steam is the leader for game downloads, but it's not the only way to go - game devs/publishers can choose from a variety of options or even self-distribute. And when was the last time you downloaded a windows application from the Microsoft Store, with the exception of Minecraft?
I thought "openness" was the whole point. Arguing against that drags everyone through the mud. We've got examples from today that too much centralization is a problem (Cloudflare, GitHub).
Bottom line seems to be that Rebble is being obstructionist and a bad partner to work with
Their data came from scrapes and if they actually care about archival it should be made public so multiple backups can exist. What they are accusing is the same as what they're doing
They scraped in response to everything being shut down. I don't think saving a closing project is the same thing as scraping from a group that is still active and wants to be part of the process.