I'm not currently in the market, but if I were, boy would I have to wait on this one. I have a 2017 15" with TouchBar that has a failing space key. Right now, the only way I feel comfortable using...
I'm not currently in the market, but if I were, boy would I have to wait on this one. I have a 2017 15" with TouchBar that has a failing space key. Right now, the only way I feel comfortable using it is attached to a monitor with a Bluetooth keyboard. It's eligible to be repaired, as are pretty much every Macbook that Apple has produced in the last four years, but the nearest place for me to take it is an hour away. I don't know how Apple thinks any of this is acceptable.
It depends what you use it for. Highly multithreaded loads will still benefit from this, you don't need to tax the CPU to use multiple cores. It was also clearly demonstrated the majority of...
It depends what you use it for. Highly multithreaded loads will still benefit from this, you don't need to tax the CPU to use multiple cores. It was also clearly demonstrated the majority of thermal throttle conditions occurred during video rendering when both the CPU & GPU were in heavy use—surprise surprise that's what YouTubers do most often, and thus why there was such an outcry. Using one processor discretely will largely eliminate most thermal throttling.
I'm not saying it's not an issue, but the YouTube community largely blew it out of proportion (not surprising, they depend on clicks for their jobs).
How would you use multiple cores without taxing the CPU though? Unless you use each one at very low capacity, any well threaded workload should cause the CPU to spike up. But I don't see why...
How would you use multiple cores without taxing the CPU though? Unless you use each one at very low capacity, any well threaded workload should cause the CPU to spike up. But I don't see why anyone would buy a super expensive i9 enabled laptop to only use 40% of its capacity...
The thing is, they could just give you a cheaper CPU that can be fully utilized. Instead they give you an expensive CPU that can only run under full load for a short period of time. Same...
The thing is, they could just give you a cheaper CPU that can be fully utilized. Instead they give you an expensive CPU that can only run under full load for a short period of time. Same performance but more money for Apple.
Supposedly they've made larger alterations to this fourth generation keyboard that makes it more resilient to foreign objects. But if it follows the path of the third generation keyboard which...
Supposedly they've made larger alterations to this fourth generation keyboard that makes it more resilient to foreign objects. But if it follows the path of the third generation keyboard which included the dust ingress protection, it could still wind up being a flop.
The only positive news for existing MBP owners is that they'll be upgraded to this fourth revision of the butterfly keyboard when they next take it in for service.
Apple has bungled this MBP generation. Hopefully they redeem themselves at the next design refresh in 2020.
I actually like what they did with the keyboard. I used to have gear acquisition syndrome. Now you would have to pry my 2015 macbook pro out of my cold dead hands.
I actually like what they did with the keyboard.
I used to have gear acquisition syndrome.
Now you would have to pry my 2015 macbook pro out of my cold dead hands.
Yeah, I get that they say that it'll help. But they said the last update would help too, and we've seen that it most definitely did not. I also suspect there is something else going on with the...
Yeah, I get that they say that it'll help. But they said the last update would help too, and we've seen that it most definitely did not. I also suspect there is something else going on with the design of these keyboards, seeing as the space bar and the 'e' key seem to have a lot of problems. That doesn't seem to be coincidental to me, seeing as they're two of the most pressed keys.
I won't trust Apple again until the butterfly keyboards are gone. Before these keyboards, an MBP was an obvious choice for a top-notch laptop, but if I can't trust the keyboard, then none of the...
I won't trust Apple again until the butterfly keyboards are gone. Before these keyboards, an MBP was an obvious choice for a top-notch laptop, but if I can't trust the keyboard, then none of the other components are worth a damn.
Keyboard got only an incremental fix, the design is the same dull black and stainless steel they've had for the last 10+ years, I don't see anything on how they're going to cool an 8 core chip at...
Keyboard got only an incremental fix, the design is the same dull black and stainless steel they've had for the last 10+ years, I don't see anything on how they're going to cool an 8 core chip at full load, and likely no part of this laptop is user upgradable or user serviceable. I'll wait for the reviews, but... looks like I'm sticking with ThinkPads.
One person's dull is another's simplicity. What's wrong with the design in your opinion—purely aesthetically speaking? Because frankly most other laptops are still made out of dozens of different...
the design is the same dull black and stainless steel
One person's dull is another's simplicity. What's wrong with the design in your opinion—purely aesthetically speaking? Because frankly most other laptops are still made out of dozens of different pieces of plastic.
I'm just so bored with it. You're absolutely right that it's a matter of taste (as aesthetic always is), but idk. I remember Apple when they used to make fun and unique looking products that stood...
I'm just so bored with it. You're absolutely right that it's a matter of taste (as aesthetic always is), but idk. I remember Apple when they used to make fun and unique looking products that stood out from their competition. I'm kinda bummed they no longer seem to value that...
Every laptop throttles to some extent. If you're just taxing the CPU without the GPU, your should see about a similar amount of thermal throttle as any other laptop—as they share the same cooling...
Every laptop throttles to some extent. If you're just taxing the CPU without the GPU, your should see about a similar amount of thermal throttle as any other laptop—as they share the same cooling system. That being said, Apple does prioritise battery life & noise above high performance, so yes, Apple does throttle their machines to a greater extent; but it's as part of a series of constraints which produce a well-rounded product.
Seems like a fine decision. There are more issues that I am worried about that the number of cores. But honestly, its not like it even matters to me. I used to have an iMac from 2008, loved it....
Seems like a fine decision. There are more issues that I am worried about that the number of cores. But honestly, its not like it even matters to me. I used to have an iMac from 2008, loved it. Got a 2015 Macbook and I hate it, mainly the OS and some hardware decisions (I think that is the cause of my problem...). I'll stick to Windows and Linux, but a lot of my family members use MBPs so I am curious. Let's see what they do about the keyboard first and foremost.
Apple products and support are so ridiculously expensive in Brazil that they only make sense for rich people. You can literally buy a brand new car for the price of a Mac Pro, and a decent used...
Apple products and support are so ridiculously expensive in Brazil that they only make sense for rich people. You can literally buy a brand new car for the price of a Mac Pro, and a decent used one for the price of a MacBook Pro. And any non-trivial repairs cost almost the price of the whole unit. That's a hard pass for me.
I don't get why people gush so much over Apple hardware. I see no point in buying a MacBook Pro, unless you absolutely 100% need to use macOS. And the only reason I can think of is developing...
I don't get why people gush so much over Apple hardware. I see no point in buying a MacBook Pro, unless you absolutely 100% need to use macOS. And the only reason I can think of is developing specifically for iOS because I am not aware of any development tools that work outside of macOS.
For graphic designers, Adobe and Autodesk products are perfectly compatible with Windows.
For music producers, the only thing you'd really be missing out on is Garageband. When other industry standard DAWs like Ableton Live and FL Studio work just fine on Windows, there really is no point in splashing out on a Mac.
For video editing, you're only missing out on Final Cut Pro and while that's really good software, Sony Vegas and Adobe Premiere are more than worthy alternatives.
For gamers, it's a similar situation to using Linux with few games supporting OSes other than Windows. Besides, those new Macbook Pros don't have particularly good GPUs for their price because the Radeon RX 560X has shitty performance benchmarks for its price. I can actually buy a high end laptop with a much better graphics card for a cheaper price.
For everyday use, you're honestly much better off getting a mid-end laptop if you want the full Windows experience, or a Chromebook if you plan to use your laptop for little more than word processing, browsing the web, listening to music and watching videos.
And don't even get me started on how weak MacBooks are compared to their price, how pricey Apple's product care plans are, how their recent offerings have become increasingly hard to self-service or upgrade, or how Apple in general has started to suck under Tim Cook's leadership.
These sort of comments come up every time I post an Apple link here, and I'm tired of refuting them, so I won't bother with most of your points suffice to say I disagree with most of them (people...
These sort of comments come up every time I post an Apple link here, and I'm tired of refuting them, so I won't bother with most of your points suffice to say I disagree with most of them (people don't buy MacBooks for games, they buy them for work—thus, Pro—, etc etc); and most people who buy MacBooks do so for very good reasons.
But I do have directly have experience with macOS versus Windows. I use the former for my personal business & home, and Windows at my employed job, and I can only describe Windows as making my life hell. No good terminal. No Unix commands (no, WLS doesn't count). Terrible aesthetic decisions. Awful font rendering. Complete mismatch of UI across different parts of the application. Death by a million modals. Registry. Shitty third party applications.
It's dog vomit. I legitimately cannot comprehend why Windows does some things the way it does; and in lieu of Apple's iWork software, or Adobe's packages, or Sketch, or Paw, etc etc running on Linux: you can absolutely guarantee I'm using macOS.
My favorite is digging into the control panel on Windows 10. You start out in Windows 10 UI and as you dig you quickly find yourself traversing versions of Windows UI until you’re in basically XP.
My favorite is digging into the control panel on Windows 10. You start out in Windows 10 UI and as you dig you quickly find yourself traversing versions of Windows UI until you’re in basically XP.
If Windows font rendering looks bad, then you probably need to change your ClearType settings, or maybe your display scaling. WLS is going to get a hell of a lot better come summer when WLS2 comes...
If Windows font rendering looks bad, then you probably need to change your ClearType settings, or maybe your display scaling.
WLS is going to get a hell of a lot better come summer when WLS2 comes out. They are ditching that weird compatibility layer and running a real Linux kernel under Hyper-V.
There's also a brand new open source Terminal app they showed off at Build a couple weeks ago. I've always been pretty happy with Cmder but it is admittedly a bit hacky under the hood.
Of course none of this will likely change the fact that macOS works better for you, and nobody should criticize anyone for their choice of operating system.
Side note: your username is triggering all kinds of PTSD
This is just what makes people like me cry, it should just look good by default, damnit! I shouldn't need to change settings or fiddle around with rendering options to make my OS look good. It...
If Windows font rendering looks bad, then you probably need to change your ClearType settings, or maybe your display scaling.
This is just what makes people like me cry, it should just look good by default, damnit! I shouldn't need to change settings or fiddle around with rendering options to make my OS look good. It should be seamless the moment it comes out of the box.
Side note: your username is triggering all kinds of PTSD
ClearType font rendering relies on different profiles for various display technologies and subpixel arrangements, which monitors don't really inform the computer they are attached to about. Bit of...
ClearType font rendering relies on different profiles for various display technologies and subpixel arrangements, which monitors don't really inform the computer they are attached to about.
Side note: your username is triggering all kinds of PTSD
Ahah, why's that?
Bit of a joke. Lots of email clients and word processors will automatically convert a hyphen to an emdash based on context, which causes lots of headaches when people copy+paste strings from emails and word documents into tools that expect exact string matches.
It has so many edge cases, that from my experience working with it professionally, it's unreliable to script against for anything more than trivial uses. I mean, hell, it starts off bad. Just bash...
It has so many edge cases, that from my experience working with it professionally, it's unreliable to script against for anything more than trivial uses. I mean, hell, it starts off bad. Just bash then ls and you already encounter non-standardized stuff:
ls: cannot read symbolic link 'Application Data': Permission denied
I mean, check out the list of reported issues against it on GitHub. I don't want to spend my day debugging shit, I often just want to do my job. So WSL really doesn't jive with my ideals of what I consider "stock" at all.
I think there was a Linus Tech Tips explaining that iMac or Mac Pros are actually really worth their price. If I can find it, I will link it. Also, a lot of people just prefer macOS, they grew up...
I think there was a Linus Tech Tips explaining that iMac or Mac Pros are actually really worth their price. If I can find it, I will link it. Also, a lot of people just prefer macOS, they grew up with it, thats enough of a reason why people buy it.
Their argument boiled down to most people making value comparisons completely ignoring non-obvious expensive things that go into making Macbook Pros good laptops. A $700 Gigabyte laptop might have...
Their argument boiled down to most people making value comparisons completely ignoring non-obvious expensive things that go into making Macbook Pros good laptops.
A $700 Gigabyte laptop might have the same specs as a much more expensive Macbook Pro but it's probably going to be made of cheap plastic, have shit for wifi performance, a poorly calibrated LCD, and a shitty SSD that uses QLC NAND.
I ended up getting a Macbook for iOS development, but in using macOS I've found developing on it far superior in pretty much every way compared to Windows. With Windows a lot of the open source...
Exemplary
I ended up getting a Macbook for iOS development, but in using macOS I've found developing on it far superior in pretty much every way compared to Windows.
With Windows a lot of the open source tooling you just get for free on macOS or Linux you have to install and mess around with PATH, etc. With WSL2 this integration seems to have improved massively, because with WSL1 it was absolutely painful to get *nix tools to co-operate in Windows. It was like I had to have Linux binaries and Windows binaries on the same machine and try to get the world talking to each other nicely.
Like I said before, with macOS these tools just come bundled for free. And if they aren't, you can just install homebrew and get tons of open source and GUI tools just in a click of a finger.
And then there's the other things - basically once you realise that the Macbook is like a consolised PC in the sense there are limitations to it, but what it does it does really well. Like for example, one thing I do with my Macbook Pro a lot is connect it up to a proper mechanical keyboard, my mouse, and my 4K screen from my desktop and just close the lid. This keeps the Macbook on but the display is entirely routed to my 4K display where I get insane real estate.
Generally speaking I've had no issues with my MacBook Pro (2018 model) and I'm happy with it. Is it stupidly insanely expensive? Yes. Would I like to use Windows? Oh god yes, much so than macOS as it's the OS I'm far more familiar with and it isn't quite as buggy driver-wise as Ubuntu. But for me, using macOS is just the better development environment. For now (looking forward to trying out WSL2 though).
Of course, these are my reasons and others may have different reasons. One of which is if you are already in the Apple ecosystem (iPhones/iPads) then it syncs up really well and you can pick up/drop off where you left off. But that's something I barely use.
But let me run past your points because on a cursory glance I agree with some of them:
Gamers - good point, but I've stopped playing games as gaming was just taking too much of my time and money when compared to something like Netflix (£8/mo for a catalogue of films and shows vs £50+ for games that might even start begging for microtransactions)
Everyday use - agreed. Plus, IMHO Windows is the friendlier user experience. I've given my Macbook Pro to my family and literally all of them cannot figure out how to power the Macbook Pro down, it cracks me up!
Apple product care - true, although being in the UK we have legal rights to have warranty covered up to 6 years. Nice.
Hard to upgrade - YES! Oh my god this is such a pain in the arse! I got an old 2011 Macbook that I could replace the RAM easily. This new 2018 model I feel completely lost in upgrading it, which is the point as they want you to buy newer models or shitty external graphics cards (that price lmao - that isn't even the "pro" version)
Tim Cook's leadership - sigh yuuuuup. Can't believe I'm saying I miss Steve Jobs considering how much I hated the man's arrogance and his treatment to his ex Christian Brennan and his daughter Lisa but this new Apple is a greedy mofo.
I'm not currently in the market, but if I were, boy would I have to wait on this one. I have a 2017 15" with TouchBar that has a failing space key. Right now, the only way I feel comfortable using it is attached to a monitor with a Bluetooth keyboard. It's eligible to be repaired, as are pretty much every Macbook that Apple has produced in the last four years, but the nearest place for me to take it is an hour away. I don't know how Apple thinks any of this is acceptable.
Given their issues with thermal throttling I doubt this 8 core laptop will be worth the price.
It depends what you use it for. Highly multithreaded loads will still benefit from this, you don't need to tax the CPU to use multiple cores. It was also clearly demonstrated the majority of thermal throttle conditions occurred during video rendering when both the CPU & GPU were in heavy use—surprise surprise that's what YouTubers do most often, and thus why there was such an outcry. Using one processor discretely will largely eliminate most thermal throttling.
I'm not saying it's not an issue, but the YouTube community largely blew it out of proportion (not surprising, they depend on clicks for their jobs).
How would you use multiple cores without taxing the CPU though? Unless you use each one at very low capacity, any well threaded workload should cause the CPU to spike up. But I don't see why anyone would buy a super expensive i9 enabled laptop to only use 40% of its capacity...
The thing is, they could just give you a cheaper CPU that can be fully utilized. Instead they give you an expensive CPU that can only run under full load for a short period of time. Same performance but more money for Apple.
Supposedly they've made larger alterations to this fourth generation keyboard that makes it more resilient to foreign objects. But if it follows the path of the third generation keyboard which included the dust ingress protection, it could still wind up being a flop.
The only positive news for existing MBP owners is that they'll be upgraded to this fourth revision of the butterfly keyboard when they next take it in for service.
Apple has bungled this MBP generation. Hopefully they redeem themselves at the next design refresh in 2020.
I actually like what they did with the keyboard.
I used to have gear acquisition syndrome.
Now you would have to pry my 2015 macbook pro out of my cold dead hands.
Yeah, I get that they say that it'll help. But they said the last update would help too, and we've seen that it most definitely did not. I also suspect there is something else going on with the design of these keyboards, seeing as the space bar and the 'e' key seem to have a lot of problems. That doesn't seem to be coincidental to me, seeing as they're two of the most pressed keys.
I won't trust Apple again until the butterfly keyboards are gone. Before these keyboards, an MBP was an obvious choice for a top-notch laptop, but if I can't trust the keyboard, then none of the other components are worth a damn.
Keyboard got only an incremental fix, the design is the same dull black and stainless steel they've had for the last 10+ years, I don't see anything on how they're going to cool an 8 core chip at full load, and likely no part of this laptop is user upgradable or user serviceable. I'll wait for the reviews, but... looks like I'm sticking with ThinkPads.
One person's dull is another's simplicity. What's wrong with the design in your opinion—purely aesthetically speaking? Because frankly most other laptops are still made out of dozens of different pieces of plastic.
I agree. I like the simplicity of the Macbook design in general. And obviously a lot of ultrabook makers do too.
I'm just so bored with it. You're absolutely right that it's a matter of taste (as aesthetic always is), but idk. I remember Apple when they used to make fun and unique looking products that stood out from their competition. I'm kinda bummed they no longer seem to value that...
Every laptop throttles to some extent. If you're just taxing the CPU without the GPU, your should see about a similar amount of thermal throttle as any other laptop—as they share the same cooling system. That being said, Apple does prioritise battery life & noise above high performance, so yes, Apple does throttle their machines to a greater extent; but it's as part of a series of constraints which produce a well-rounded product.
Seems like a fine decision. There are more issues that I am worried about that the number of cores. But honestly, its not like it even matters to me. I used to have an iMac from 2008, loved it. Got a 2015 Macbook and I hate it, mainly the OS and some hardware decisions (I think that is the cause of my problem...). I'll stick to Windows and Linux, but a lot of my family members use MBPs so I am curious. Let's see what they do about the keyboard first and foremost.
Apple products and support are so ridiculously expensive in Brazil that they only make sense for rich people. You can literally buy a brand new car for the price of a Mac Pro, and a decent used one for the price of a MacBook Pro. And any non-trivial repairs cost almost the price of the whole unit. That's a hard pass for me.
I don't get why people gush so much over Apple hardware. I see no point in buying a MacBook Pro, unless you absolutely 100% need to use macOS. And the only reason I can think of is developing specifically for iOS because I am not aware of any development tools that work outside of macOS.
And don't even get me started on how weak MacBooks are compared to their price, how pricey Apple's product care plans are, how their recent offerings have become increasingly hard to self-service or upgrade, or how Apple in general has started to suck under Tim Cook's leadership.
These sort of comments come up every time I post an Apple link here, and I'm tired of refuting them, so I won't bother with most of your points suffice to say I disagree with most of them (people don't buy MacBooks for games, they buy them for work—thus, Pro—, etc etc); and most people who buy MacBooks do so for very good reasons.
But I do have directly have experience with macOS versus Windows. I use the former for my personal business & home, and Windows at my employed job, and I can only describe Windows as making my life hell. No good terminal. No Unix commands (no, WLS doesn't count). Terrible aesthetic decisions. Awful font rendering. Complete mismatch of UI across different parts of the application. Death by a million modals. Registry. Shitty third party applications.
It's dog vomit. I legitimately cannot comprehend why Windows does some things the way it does; and in lieu of Apple's iWork software, or Adobe's packages, or Sketch, or Paw, etc etc running on Linux: you can absolutely guarantee I'm using macOS.
My favorite is digging into the control panel on Windows 10. You start out in Windows 10 UI and as you dig you quickly find yourself traversing versions of Windows UI until you’re in basically XP.
If Windows font rendering looks bad, then you probably need to change your ClearType settings, or maybe your display scaling.
WLS is going to get a hell of a lot better come summer when WLS2 comes out. They are ditching that weird compatibility layer and running a real Linux kernel under Hyper-V.
There's also a brand new open source Terminal app they showed off at Build a couple weeks ago. I've always been pretty happy with Cmder but it is admittedly a bit hacky under the hood.
Of course none of this will likely change the fact that macOS works better for you, and nobody should criticize anyone for their choice of operating system.
Side note: your username is triggering all kinds of PTSD
This is just what makes people like me cry, it should just look good by default, damnit! I shouldn't need to change settings or fiddle around with rendering options to make my OS look good. It should be seamless the moment it comes out of the box.
Ahah, why's that?
ClearType font rendering relies on different profiles for various display technologies and subpixel arrangements, which monitors don't really inform the computer they are attached to about.
Bit of a joke. Lots of email clients and word processors will automatically convert a hyphen to an emdash based on context, which causes lots of headaches when people copy+paste strings from emails and word documents into tools that expect exact string matches.
Out of curiosity, why wouldn't you count WLS though?
It has so many edge cases, that from my experience working with it professionally, it's unreliable to script against for anything more than trivial uses. I mean, hell, it starts off bad. Just
bashthenlsand you already encounter non-standardized stuff:I mean, check out the list of reported issues against it on GitHub. I don't want to spend my day debugging shit, I often just want to do my job. So WSL really doesn't jive with my ideals of what I consider "stock" at all.
Why is this a Windows issue? If someone's making good software on OSX and shitty software for Windows, it sounds like it's that third party's fault.
I think there was a Linus Tech Tips explaining that iMac or Mac Pros are actually really worth their price. If I can find it, I will link it. Also, a lot of people just prefer macOS, they grew up with it, thats enough of a reason why people buy it.
Their argument boiled down to most people making value comparisons completely ignoring non-obvious expensive things that go into making Macbook Pros good laptops.
A $700 Gigabyte laptop might have the same specs as a much more expensive Macbook Pro but it's probably going to be made of cheap plastic, have shit for wifi performance, a poorly calibrated LCD, and a shitty SSD that uses QLC NAND.
So basically build quality, calibration and QA.
Don't forget the OS
Their wifi antenna design and trackpads are also best in the industry.
Have you used a macbook for any extended period of time?
I ended up getting a Macbook for iOS development, but in using macOS I've found developing on it far superior in pretty much every way compared to Windows.
With Windows a lot of the open source tooling you just get for free on macOS or Linux you have to install and mess around with PATH, etc. With WSL2 this integration seems to have improved massively, because with WSL1 it was absolutely painful to get *nix tools to co-operate in Windows. It was like I had to have Linux binaries and Windows binaries on the same machine and try to get the world talking to each other nicely.
Like I said before, with macOS these tools just come bundled for free. And if they aren't, you can just install homebrew and get tons of open source and GUI tools just in a click of a finger.
And then there's the other things - basically once you realise that the Macbook is like a consolised PC in the sense there are limitations to it, but what it does it does really well. Like for example, one thing I do with my Macbook Pro a lot is connect it up to a proper mechanical keyboard, my mouse, and my 4K screen from my desktop and just close the lid. This keeps the Macbook on but the display is entirely routed to my 4K display where I get insane real estate.
Generally speaking I've had no issues with my MacBook Pro (2018 model) and I'm happy with it. Is it stupidly insanely expensive? Yes. Would I like to use Windows? Oh god yes, much so than macOS as it's the OS I'm far more familiar with and it isn't quite as buggy driver-wise as Ubuntu. But for me, using macOS is just the better development environment. For now (looking forward to trying out WSL2 though).
Of course, these are my reasons and others may have different reasons. One of which is if you are already in the Apple ecosystem (iPhones/iPads) then it syncs up really well and you can pick up/drop off where you left off. But that's something I barely use.
But let me run past your points because on a cursory glance I agree with some of them: