On one hand, an official option to roll your own Chrome OS would be nice, as a half step to Linux, but if this project hits the Google Graveyard, that would be a bummer.
On one hand, an official option to roll your own Chrome OS would be nice, as a half step to Linux, but if this project hits the Google Graveyard, that would be a bummer.
If you're comfortable with a "real" Linux distro, and it's your personal device, you wouldn't. ChromeOS is a nice, polished, thin OS layer that lets users open Chrome, and has IT control...
If you're comfortable with a "real" Linux distro, and it's your personal device, you wouldn't. ChromeOS is a nice, polished, thin OS layer that lets users open Chrome, and has IT control capabilities built in.
The latter is important for schools and companies, schools especially. In these contexts, the corresponding IT department is going to want to have the ability to monitor activity, to wipe the device remotely, and so forth. Most Linux distros do not have this functionality built in, because they're either designed for servers or for personal computers for advanced users.
The latter is also why Macbooks pushing code to Linux servers is such a common paradigm in Big Tech(tm).
Suppose you have relatives who aren’t good with computers and rely on you for tech support? It’s ideal for that situation. If the laptop breaks you can try again with a different one. You need to...
Suppose you have relatives who aren’t good with computers and rely on you for tech support? It’s ideal for that situation. If the laptop breaks you can try again with a different one.
You need to make sure they protect their Google account though. I would highly recommend printing the backup codes (don’t rely on them to do it) and consider getting them a Yubikey. (Which will only be needed when they get a new machine.)
My big issue is that Google is second only to Facebook on my list of tech giants that I do not trust at all when it comes to privacy. I cannot in good conscience recommend a product to friends and...
My big issue is that Google is second only to Facebook on my list of tech giants that I do not trust at all when it comes to privacy. I cannot in good conscience recommend a product to friends and relatives if I would not use it myself.
Are your friends and family tech savvy? I ask because I too try to avoid Facebook, Google, and others. But when I do family tech support, recommending something that I would use probably won't...
Are your friends and family tech savvy? I ask because I too try to avoid Facebook, Google, and others. But when I do family tech support, recommending something that I would use probably won't help my friends/family that much, since they'll usually avoid it since it's unknown territory.
Okay, but the privacy issues people talk about most often apparently never result in support calls, so I gotta wonder if they matter? Even if they matter to you, do they matter to your relatives?...
Okay, but the privacy issues people talk about most often apparently never result in support calls, so I gotta wonder if they matter? Even if they matter to you, do they matter to your relatives?
I am much more concerned with online accounts getting hacked, malware infestations, or (in the case of another relative) being seemingly unable to remember her Google password and losing her account, twice. (After the first time, we talked about printing backup codes, but she didn't do it.) This is the sort of thing that computer support desks have to deal with all the time.
To be fair, the real problem I have with Chromebooks is Google dropping support for things, like, (just recently) Cloud Print. Supposedly the built-in printer support will work, but we'll deal with that when it breaks. The scanner worked for a while using Brother's Android app but that stopped working for mysterious reasons. After the pandemic is over I will have a chance to visit and try to figure it out.
Chromebooks aren't that reliable either. I think we're on the fourth Chromebook now in maybe 10 years or so. I would be worried about relying on a single Chromebook during the pandemic, but the previous one was fixed under warranty, so now there is a backup.
In theory she could buy a new one and set it up, though it would require some handholding. That is still much better than migrating off the 10-year old Windows XP installation that preceded it. Migrating off that was so scary that they just kept using even after Microsoft stopped supporting it entirely and the hardware started overheating and shutting down when you looked at it funny.
So whatever you do, pick something that someone else can fix if you can't support that relative anymore. This seems unlikely to be a custom Linux install that nobody else knows about?
So what's the long-term solution here? After all, not everyone has a friendly tech person to help them out. How do we do universal access?
I think that, for people who really aren't good with technology, when something essential breaks, there is no substitute for a house call. If the network breaks, the local cable company can send someone to fix it and replace a box if it's broken. When we dream about the open source hardware utopia, the cable company's support person is the essential worker who really needs to understand the technology. (Apple's "genius bar" is a fair substitute for some, but it doesn't fix your home network.)
Ironically, this is how the phone company did things before their monopoly was broken up.
Meanwhile, those of us who like to tinker with computers can get Raspberry Pi's or build a Linux box or whatever, but that's separate from the essential services provided by the cable company, like the video chat needed for school.
(Maybe in some cases it won't be cable; instead it will be StarLink. But inevitably, StarLink will need to be able to send people out to fix satellite reception when it stops working.)
Yes, I was exaggerating a bit. There are other ways that things can matter. Still, I think the sort of things that cause support calls matter more? People cared enough to call about them. They are...
Yes, I was exaggerating a bit. There are other ways that things can matter.
Still, I think the sort of things that cause support calls matter more? People cared enough to call about them. They are at least concerned, and often upset. It's concrete feedback.
I don't think computer illiteracy is a problem best solved by having a tech-savvy friend do it for you any more than regular illiteracy is solved by listening to other people read you some cliff...
I don't think computer illiteracy is a problem best solved by having a tech-savvy friend do it for you any more than regular illiteracy is solved by listening to other people read you some cliff notes.
Unfortunately, reality is far from ideal and there are lots of people who lack computer literacy and need help from people like me or you. In the past, I've had no problem remotely administering Windows machines for family members, so I'm still perplexed as to what Chrome OS really offers me that I can't get from a more capable OS.
I don't really know how to solve this problem for people who have already left the public education system. But nobody should be graduating high school without a basic grasp on how computers work, how to be safe online, and the importance of privacy.
Whatever people might learn in high school wouldn’t last their whole lives. You would need life-long learning. Perhaps someday there will be different operating systems, or something replaces the...
Whatever people might learn in high school wouldn’t last their whole lives. You would need life-long learning. Perhaps someday there will be different operating systems, or something replaces the web, or there will be something better than smart phones? How to be safe online will change. Privacy risks will change.
The Windows XP box was set up by my father, who used to work for Digital Equipment maintaining minicomputers and later got a job maintaining the computers for a local grocery store chain. He learned a lot about Windows. (Going from minicomputers to PC’s was a pretty big technical transition in itself.) At one time he was building PC’s and setting up Windows XP boxes for all the relatives. He used cell phones a lot, but it was before smart phones. Then he got sick and didn’t keep up anymore. Window became obsolete, Google discontinued Picasa, and so on. He passed away a few years ago. There was a whole room full of obsolete computer parts left over from his job, everything you would need to build more PC’s of that era and install Windows XP on them.
I don’t think it would work for everyone to learn how to maintain computers, any more than it would make sense for everyone to fix their own cars. Then we get electric cars and it’s obsolete anyway. If you’re using computers every day and keeping up with new technology, sometimes you don’t notice how much things change.
With Crostini it essentially is just another Linux distro (I mean, technically...). It supports Android apps, and seamlessly runs your choice of distribution (Debian by default) in containers...
With Crostini it essentially is just another Linux distro (I mean, technically...).
It supports Android apps, and seamlessly runs your choice of distribution (Debian by default) in containers (within Chrome OS). Whatever you run on Linux essentially runs as another app on Chrome OS.
Not many acquisitions like these are going well in time. The most recent example is CentOS, bought by Red Hat. The project ended up destroyed and replaces with something that the community doesn't...
Not many acquisitions like these are going well in time. The most recent example is CentOS, bought by Red Hat. The project ended up destroyed and replaces with something that the community doesn't really want.
And google is no stranger to buying and destroying companies/products.
I don't think that comparison really makes sense here. CentOS was a downstream OS that was RHEL but without the copyrighted elements and free to use. Certainly you could see the conflict of...
I don't think that comparison really makes sense here. CentOS was a downstream OS that was RHEL but without the copyrighted elements and free to use. Certainly you could see the conflict of interest a mile away here.
On the other hand, this is more like if Redhat bought a company that specialized in helping people install RHEL.
Obviously Google wants more people to use ChromeOS. If anything, this is something they should've done in-house anyway!
Well shit, it seems they want full control of Chromium OS, and with that as far as Cloudready alternatives go the only options left is Wayne OS and NayuOS. (links) Wayne OS NayuOS (Side note: It...
Well shit, it seems they want full control of Chromium OS, and with that as far as Cloudready alternatives go the only options left is Wayne OS and NayuOS.
(links) Wayne OS NayuOS (Side note: It is also open source, which probably makes it an even better choice.)
On one hand, an official option to roll your own Chrome OS would be nice, as a half step to Linux, but if this project hits the Google Graveyard, that would be a bummer.
I'm not sure why I would want to run Chrome OS instead of Windows or a real Linux distro.
If you're comfortable with a "real" Linux distro, and it's your personal device, you wouldn't. ChromeOS is a nice, polished, thin OS layer that lets users open Chrome, and has IT control capabilities built in.
The latter is important for schools and companies, schools especially. In these contexts, the corresponding IT department is going to want to have the ability to monitor activity, to wipe the device remotely, and so forth. Most Linux distros do not have this functionality built in, because they're either designed for servers or for personal computers for advanced users.
The latter is also why Macbooks pushing code to Linux servers is such a common paradigm in Big Tech(tm).
If the computer is intended for somebody else or a dumb web terminal, you could do worse.
Suppose you have relatives who aren’t good with computers and rely on you for tech support? It’s ideal for that situation. If the laptop breaks you can try again with a different one.
You need to make sure they protect their Google account though. I would highly recommend printing the backup codes (don’t rely on them to do it) and consider getting them a Yubikey. (Which will only be needed when they get a new machine.)
My big issue is that Google is second only to Facebook on my list of tech giants that I do not trust at all when it comes to privacy. I cannot in good conscience recommend a product to friends and relatives if I would not use it myself.
Are your friends and family tech savvy? I ask because I too try to avoid Facebook, Google, and others. But when I do family tech support, recommending something that I would use probably won't help my friends/family that much, since they'll usually avoid it since it's unknown territory.
I don't think they need to be tech savvy to use Windows or macOS.
Okay, but the privacy issues people talk about most often apparently never result in support calls, so I gotta wonder if they matter? Even if they matter to you, do they matter to your relatives?
I am much more concerned with online accounts getting hacked, malware infestations, or (in the case of another relative) being seemingly unable to remember her Google password and losing her account, twice. (After the first time, we talked about printing backup codes, but she didn't do it.) This is the sort of thing that computer support desks have to deal with all the time.
To be fair, the real problem I have with Chromebooks is Google dropping support for things, like, (just recently) Cloud Print. Supposedly the built-in printer support will work, but we'll deal with that when it breaks. The scanner worked for a while using Brother's Android app but that stopped working for mysterious reasons. After the pandemic is over I will have a chance to visit and try to figure it out.
Chromebooks aren't that reliable either. I think we're on the fourth Chromebook now in maybe 10 years or so. I would be worried about relying on a single Chromebook during the pandemic, but the previous one was fixed under warranty, so now there is a backup.
In theory she could buy a new one and set it up, though it would require some handholding. That is still much better than migrating off the 10-year old Windows XP installation that preceded it. Migrating off that was so scary that they just kept using even after Microsoft stopped supporting it entirely and the hardware started overheating and shutting down when you looked at it funny.
So whatever you do, pick something that someone else can fix if you can't support that relative anymore. This seems unlikely to be a custom Linux install that nobody else knows about?
So what's the long-term solution here? After all, not everyone has a friendly tech person to help them out. How do we do universal access?
I think that, for people who really aren't good with technology, when something essential breaks, there is no substitute for a house call. If the network breaks, the local cable company can send someone to fix it and replace a box if it's broken. When we dream about the open source hardware utopia, the cable company's support person is the essential worker who really needs to understand the technology. (Apple's "genius bar" is a fair substitute for some, but it doesn't fix your home network.)
Ironically, this is how the phone company did things before their monopoly was broken up.
Meanwhile, those of us who like to tinker with computers can get Raspberry Pi's or build a Linux box or whatever, but that's separate from the essential services provided by the cable company, like the video chat needed for school.
(Maybe in some cases it won't be cable; instead it will be StarLink. But inevitably, StarLink will need to be able to send people out to fix satellite reception when it stops working.)
Yes, I was exaggerating a bit. There are other ways that things can matter.
Still, I think the sort of things that cause support calls matter more? People cared enough to call about them. They are at least concerned, and often upset. It's concrete feedback.
I don't think computer illiteracy is a problem best solved by having a tech-savvy friend do it for you any more than regular illiteracy is solved by listening to other people read you some cliff notes.
Unfortunately, reality is far from ideal and there are lots of people who lack computer literacy and need help from people like me or you. In the past, I've had no problem remotely administering Windows machines for family members, so I'm still perplexed as to what Chrome OS really offers me that I can't get from a more capable OS.
I don't really know how to solve this problem for people who have already left the public education system. But nobody should be graduating high school without a basic grasp on how computers work, how to be safe online, and the importance of privacy.
Whatever people might learn in high school wouldn’t last their whole lives. You would need life-long learning. Perhaps someday there will be different operating systems, or something replaces the web, or there will be something better than smart phones? How to be safe online will change. Privacy risks will change.
The Windows XP box was set up by my father, who used to work for Digital Equipment maintaining minicomputers and later got a job maintaining the computers for a local grocery store chain. He learned a lot about Windows. (Going from minicomputers to PC’s was a pretty big technical transition in itself.) At one time he was building PC’s and setting up Windows XP boxes for all the relatives. He used cell phones a lot, but it was before smart phones. Then he got sick and didn’t keep up anymore. Window became obsolete, Google discontinued Picasa, and so on. He passed away a few years ago. There was a whole room full of obsolete computer parts left over from his job, everything you would need to build more PC’s of that era and install Windows XP on them.
I don’t think it would work for everyone to learn how to maintain computers, any more than it would make sense for everyone to fix their own cars. Then we get electric cars and it’s obsolete anyway. If you’re using computers every day and keeping up with new technology, sometimes you don’t notice how much things change.
With Crostini it essentially is just another Linux distro (I mean, technically...).
It supports Android apps, and seamlessly runs your choice of distribution (Debian by default) in containers (within Chrome OS). Whatever you run on Linux essentially runs as another app on Chrome OS.
I use it for my main machine.
Do they support replacing Chrome with Firefox?
No, Chrome will always be running in the background. You can run Firefox inside ChromeOS though.
Not many acquisitions like these are going well in time. The most recent example is CentOS, bought by Red Hat. The project ended up destroyed and replaces with something that the community doesn't really want.
And google is no stranger to buying and destroying companies/products.
I don't think that comparison really makes sense here. CentOS was a downstream OS that was RHEL but without the copyrighted elements and free to use. Certainly you could see the conflict of interest a mile away here.
On the other hand, this is more like if Redhat bought a company that specialized in helping people install RHEL.
Obviously Google wants more people to use ChromeOS. If anything, this is something they should've done in-house anyway!
Well shit, it seems they want full control of Chromium OS, and with that as far as Cloudready alternatives go the only options left is Wayne OS and NayuOS.
(links)
Wayne OS
NayuOS (Side note: It is also open source, which probably makes it an even better choice.)