I'm actually curious what folk from countries with better gun control than the US think of this. To be honest, the genie is out in the US, we're quite far from getting it back in the bottle - it's...
I'm actually curious what folk from countries with better gun control than the US think of this. To be honest, the genie is out in the US, we're quite far from getting it back in the bottle - it's already fairly easy for people who would want a gun for nefarious purposes to obtain one here.
But what about elsewhere? Does this shake the foundations of all the work other nations have done to keep guns out of their countries when gun manufacturing is something anyone can do rather than something specific companies with a specific expertise can do?
I grew up in the US and have been "back" in Germany for several years now, so I lived in two very different places regarding guns and it's a topic I've always kept my eyes on. Plus, I've had a...
I grew up in the US and have been "back" in Germany for several years now, so I lived in two very different places regarding guns and it's a topic I've always kept my eyes on. Plus, I've had a 3D-printer and have been actively printing and developing my own things since 2017, and have watched some videos on the FGC-9.
I currently do not think that 3D-printed weapons, specifically guns, are a game changer on the large scale in countries with stricter gun controls/access. The main thing about how the populace perceives guns in the US is that they're sort of a meme, for lack of a better word - Defend your house? Use a gun because the other person might have a gun. Government did something? Wave your gun around. Etc. The answers to these questions on this side of the Atlantic are very different. As such, I doubt many people have printed guns on their minds as solutions for anything. However, some idiot somewhere, at some point, will undoubtedly use a printed weapon or such in an attack here, and laws will react, but I feel neither 3D-printing nor the laws will affect my safety one way or another. Plus, acquiring bullets, or materials for bullets, sounds as cumbersome as acquiring large amounts of fertilizer or stealing a truck... and just as likely to have the police show up at my door.
Considering 3D-printing hasn't greatly impacted financially lucrative markets such as, uh, Warhammer minis, I don't think it will have a huge impact on public safety.
I think the ammo comment is pretty damn important as UK law states "Any person wishing to possess, purchase or acquire any firearm or ammunition must hold a valid firearm or shotgun certificate"...
I think the ammo comment is pretty damn important as UK law states "Any person wishing to possess, purchase or acquire any firearm or ammunition must hold a valid firearm or shotgun certificate" so you can't load your gun without a licence anyway so it makes no real difference.
As you've stated it's "fairly easy for people who would want a gun for nefarious purposes to obtain one" and that is not limited to the US, be it buying them illegally through various channels or...
I'm willing to bet it has next to zero impact whatsoever. As stated in my other comment 3D printed guns are more thought experiment than anything else. It'd even be a stretch to say they'll reach niche status in the US, let alone other parts of the world where things like ammunition (which can be created at home from scratch as well, but is a whole other task) are just as restricted as firearms. It's unlikely these are even a blip on the radar of elsewhere in the world.
I was actually thinking of commenting earlier regarding this exact thing. Usually I try not to insert myself into gun discussion because it’s usually so US focused and like you say the genie is...
I was actually thinking of commenting earlier regarding this exact thing. Usually I try not to insert myself into gun discussion because it’s usually so US focused and like you say the genie is out of the bottle there already.
I certainly don’t like the idea of making guns more prevalent here — I enjoy our police generally not having to be involved in a militarization arms race with the general public for one thing.
That said, I think our culture and gun culture is hopefully distinct enough to where there won’t be large uptake for this sort of thing. For example, all magazines sold here have to be pinned at 5 rounds for rifles and 10 for handguns. Despite being able to remove these pins with hand tools there isn’t really widespread subversion of this law.
We also don’t have open or concealed carry here so trying to bring any firearm anywhere except a firing range is going to draw immediate attention.
I’m sure they will make it easier for restricted firearms to get into the hands of criminals so we’ll have to wait and see what that changes long term for policing here.
I have numerous firearms, have the files mentioned in the article, and have been following the development of them relatively closely for quite some time. So feel free to ask me questions...
I have numerous firearms, have the files mentioned in the article, and have been following the development of them relatively closely for quite some time. So feel free to ask me questions pertaining to this or firearms in general if you have any.
The article mentions casting bullets. If someone has the skill and equipment to create their own ammo, do you think they could make the gun mentioned in the article without a 3D printer or without...
The article mentions casting bullets. If someone has the skill and equipment to create their own ammo, do you think they could make the gun mentioned in the article without a 3D printer or without 3D printed parts?
I don't know a lot about the complexity of guns. The reason I ask is that my government, many other governments, and a whole lot of people tend to look at a problem that's loosely associated with something else and only talk about that something else.
Casting bullets is easy, it's the same as casting any other item which we've been doing for a few thousand years now. Add in that casting bullets only involves lead (commercial bullets are...
Casting bullets is easy, it's the same as casting any other item which we've been doing for a few thousand years now. Add in that casting bullets only involves lead (commercial bullets are generally a copper jacket around a lead core, while homemade bullets are pure lead) which has a low melting point (621.5°F/327.5°C) and all that's needed to cast bullets is a mold (can be made, bought, or sand cast), a cast iron pan, and a gas burner. The more difficult, but still within the realm of DIY even if they won't be as high quality as commercial ammunition, is the brass casing, gunpowder, and primer.
Most people that say they make their own ammo are doing one of two things, either they are buying all the individual components separately (bullet, case, gunpowder, primer) and just assembling it themselves or they are casting their own bullets, re-using spent (already fired) cases, and buying gunpowder and primers. While I'm sure there are a handful of people in the US that enjoy the challenge of making all the components themselves, it's probably only that handful that are actually doing so. The knowledge and step-by-step instructions are there, but there is no real drive to do so.
With all that said, no I don't think someone that is just casting their own bullets has the skills or equipment to make the gun mentioned (or any other gun) without a 3D printer or without the 3D printed parts. Casting your own bullets is an equivalent to pouring gelatin into a mold for a 1950's era party, only in this case the "gelatin" is lead.
If you were the head of the NRA or ATF or organization of your choice, what statements do you put out, measures do you recommend and causes do you fund to help people adjust to a world where...
If you were the head of the NRA or ATF or organization of your choice, what statements do you put out, measures do you recommend and causes do you fund to help people adjust to a world where firearms are ubiquitous?
Neither of those organizations would really do so. The NRA supports gun control as it, like most things, disproportionally impedes gun ownership of the poor and people of color. These being groups...
Neither of those organizations would really do so. The NRA supports gun control as it, like most things, disproportionally impedes gun ownership of the poor and people of color. These being groups the NRA has demonstrated time and again they do not want to have easy access to firearms. The NRA is and has always been an organization to keep rich white men in power.
The ATF would simply reiterate that the laws state creation of firearms for your own personal use, so long as it is permitted in your locality, is allowable insomuch they adhere to all federal laws (no full auto, open bolt, NFA, DD, etc) and are not built with the intent to sell.
Any of the actual gun rights organizations (read: not the NRA) such as the LGBTQ+ centric Pink Pistols, Redneck Revolt, Socialist Rifle Association, Liberal Gun Club, etc would likely support access for individuals of all walks of life to defend themselves while continuing to advocate for the numerous inequality and mental health reforms that are absolutely necessary to reduce the greatest cause of firearm deaths: suicide - As head of those organizations I'd point out that guns are already ubiquitous as there are more guns in the hands of the people in the US than there are people and I'd urge everyone to support common sense gun control. I'd bring up the fact that while these files make it easier to make your own firearm, it does not make it easy and at the end of the day these files represent an extremely niche enthusiast approach to firearm ownership that isn't likely to have even a measurable impact on total number of guns available. What it does do is send a message stating that stringent gun control can be circumvented and that the lessons taught by the repeated failures from outright bans (drugs, prohibition, prostitution, etc) should be heeded here as well.
Red flag laws are one of the things I don't consider "common sense gun control" as I've yet to see evidence or even defense of them that accounts for false accusation, protection of individual...
Red flag laws are one of the things I don't consider "common sense gun control" as I've yet to see evidence or even defense of them that accounts for false accusation, protection of individual rights, or, as you brought up, prevention of harmful police encounters.
Maybe the most effective way governments could limit the effectiveness of sharing of this type of design through decentralised technologies would be to spam millions of credible but non working...
Maybe the most effective way governments could limit the effectiveness of sharing of this type of design through decentralised technologies would be to spam millions of credible but non working designs and instructions, and likewise spam recommendations of the non-working designs, so it is impossible to find the working designs without having real world networks back to the creator. When combined with attacking and infiltrating those real world networks, this could effectively maintain gun control in countries that want to do so.
They could do the same for speech, political views, "lifestyle choices", religions, and any other things they want to control. Just think of all the thoughtcrimes that could be prevented if...
They could do the same for speech, political views, "lifestyle choices", religions, and any other things they want to control. Just think of all the thoughtcrimes that could be prevented if governments just went on the offensive for things they don't like!
And what happens when those intentionally faulty designs actually get made and someone gets killed or injured due to using them? That sounds a lot like when the US government mandated that toxic...
And what happens when those intentionally faulty designs actually get made and someone gets killed or injured due to using them? That sounds a lot like when the US government mandated that toxic chemicals be added to industrial alcohol during prohibition in an attempt to stop bootlegging, which wound up killing quite a lot of people. So yeah... count me as strongly against that idea, even though I am very pro-gun-control.
Aside from that kind of large scale propaganda being Really Very Bad, someone looking for these designs could always just restrict by time to find the last known working version, i.e. here.
Aside from that kind of large scale propaganda being Really Very Bad, someone looking for these designs could always just restrict by time to find the last known working version, i.e. here.
I'm actually curious what folk from countries with better gun control than the US think of this. To be honest, the genie is out in the US, we're quite far from getting it back in the bottle - it's already fairly easy for people who would want a gun for nefarious purposes to obtain one here.
But what about elsewhere? Does this shake the foundations of all the work other nations have done to keep guns out of their countries when gun manufacturing is something anyone can do rather than something specific companies with a specific expertise can do?
I grew up in the US and have been "back" in Germany for several years now, so I lived in two very different places regarding guns and it's a topic I've always kept my eyes on. Plus, I've had a 3D-printer and have been actively printing and developing my own things since 2017, and have watched some videos on the FGC-9.
I currently do not think that 3D-printed weapons, specifically guns, are a game changer on the large scale in countries with stricter gun controls/access. The main thing about how the populace perceives guns in the US is that they're sort of a meme, for lack of a better word - Defend your house? Use a gun because the other person might have a gun. Government did something? Wave your gun around. Etc. The answers to these questions on this side of the Atlantic are very different. As such, I doubt many people have printed guns on their minds as solutions for anything. However, some idiot somewhere, at some point, will undoubtedly use a printed weapon or such in an attack here, and laws will react, but I feel neither 3D-printing nor the laws will affect my safety one way or another. Plus, acquiring bullets, or materials for bullets, sounds as cumbersome as acquiring large amounts of fertilizer or stealing a truck... and just as likely to have the police show up at my door.
Considering 3D-printing hasn't greatly impacted financially lucrative markets such as, uh, Warhammer minis, I don't think it will have a huge impact on public safety.
I think the ammo comment is pretty damn important as UK law states "Any person wishing to possess, purchase or acquire any firearm or ammunition must hold a valid firearm or shotgun certificate" so you can't load your gun without a licence anyway so it makes no real difference.
As you've stated it's "fairly easy for people who would want a gun for nefarious purposes to obtain one" and that is not limited to the US, be it buying them illegally through various channels or making it themselves. There's a long history of improvised weapons and there are certainly no specific companies with specific expertise in the Khyber Pass.
I'm willing to bet it has next to zero impact whatsoever. As stated in my other comment 3D printed guns are more thought experiment than anything else. It'd even be a stretch to say they'll reach niche status in the US, let alone other parts of the world where things like ammunition (which can be created at home from scratch as well, but is a whole other task) are just as restricted as firearms. It's unlikely these are even a blip on the radar of elsewhere in the world.
I was actually thinking of commenting earlier regarding this exact thing. Usually I try not to insert myself into gun discussion because it’s usually so US focused and like you say the genie is out of the bottle there already.
I certainly don’t like the idea of making guns more prevalent here — I enjoy our police generally not having to be involved in a militarization arms race with the general public for one thing.
That said, I think our culture and gun culture is hopefully distinct enough to where there won’t be large uptake for this sort of thing. For example, all magazines sold here have to be pinned at 5 rounds for rifles and 10 for handguns. Despite being able to remove these pins with hand tools there isn’t really widespread subversion of this law.
We also don’t have open or concealed carry here so trying to bring any firearm anywhere except a firing range is going to draw immediate attention.
I’m sure they will make it easier for restricted firearms to get into the hands of criminals so we’ll have to wait and see what that changes long term for policing here.
I have numerous firearms, have the files mentioned in the article, and have been following the development of them relatively closely for quite some time. So feel free to ask me questions pertaining to this or firearms in general if you have any.
The article mentions casting bullets. If someone has the skill and equipment to create their own ammo, do you think they could make the gun mentioned in the article without a 3D printer or without 3D printed parts?
I don't know a lot about the complexity of guns. The reason I ask is that my government, many other governments, and a whole lot of people tend to look at a problem that's loosely associated with something else and only talk about that something else.
Casting bullets is easy, it's the same as casting any other item which we've been doing for a few thousand years now. Add in that casting bullets only involves lead (commercial bullets are generally a copper jacket around a lead core, while homemade bullets are pure lead) which has a low melting point (621.5°F/327.5°C) and all that's needed to cast bullets is a mold (can be made, bought, or sand cast), a cast iron pan, and a gas burner. The more difficult, but still within the realm of DIY even if they won't be as high quality as commercial ammunition, is the brass casing, gunpowder, and primer.
Most people that say they make their own ammo are doing one of two things, either they are buying all the individual components separately (bullet, case, gunpowder, primer) and just assembling it themselves or they are casting their own bullets, re-using spent (already fired) cases, and buying gunpowder and primers. While I'm sure there are a handful of people in the US that enjoy the challenge of making all the components themselves, it's probably only that handful that are actually doing so. The knowledge and step-by-step instructions are there, but there is no real drive to do so.
With all that said, no I don't think someone that is just casting their own bullets has the skills or equipment to make the gun mentioned (or any other gun) without a 3D printer or without the 3D printed parts. Casting your own bullets is an equivalent to pouring gelatin into a mold for a 1950's era party, only in this case the "gelatin" is lead.
If you were the head of the NRA or ATF or organization of your choice, what statements do you put out, measures do you recommend and causes do you fund to help people adjust to a world where firearms are ubiquitous?
Neither of those organizations would really do so. The NRA supports gun control as it, like most things, disproportionally impedes gun ownership of the poor and people of color. These being groups the NRA has demonstrated time and again they do not want to have easy access to firearms. The NRA is and has always been an organization to keep rich white men in power.
The ATF would simply reiterate that the laws state creation of firearms for your own personal use, so long as it is permitted in your locality, is allowable insomuch they adhere to all federal laws (no full auto, open bolt, NFA, DD, etc) and are not built with the intent to sell.
Any of the actual gun rights organizations (read: not the NRA) such as the LGBTQ+ centric Pink Pistols, Redneck Revolt, Socialist Rifle Association, Liberal Gun Club, etc would likely support access for individuals of all walks of life to defend themselves while continuing to advocate for the numerous inequality and mental health reforms that are absolutely necessary to reduce the greatest cause of firearm deaths: suicide - As head of those organizations I'd point out that guns are already ubiquitous as there are more guns in the hands of the people in the US than there are people and I'd urge everyone to support common sense gun control. I'd bring up the fact that while these files make it easier to make your own firearm, it does not make it easy and at the end of the day these files represent an extremely niche enthusiast approach to firearm ownership that isn't likely to have even a measurable impact on total number of guns available. What it does do is send a message stating that stringent gun control can be circumvented and that the lessons taught by the repeated failures from outright bans (drugs, prohibition, prostitution, etc) should be heeded here as well.
How do you prevent ERPOs/red flag laws from causing more harmful police interactions?
Red flag laws are one of the things I don't consider "common sense gun control" as I've yet to see evidence or even defense of them that accounts for false accusation, protection of individual rights, or, as you brought up, prevention of harmful police encounters.
Maybe the most effective way governments could limit the effectiveness of sharing of this type of design through decentralised technologies would be to spam millions of credible but non working designs and instructions, and likewise spam recommendations of the non-working designs, so it is impossible to find the working designs without having real world networks back to the creator. When combined with attacking and infiltrating those real world networks, this could effectively maintain gun control in countries that want to do so.
They could do the same for speech, political views, "lifestyle choices", religions, and any other things they want to control. Just think of all the thoughtcrimes that could be prevented if governments just went on the offensive for things they don't like!
And what happens when those intentionally faulty designs actually get made and someone gets killed or injured due to using them? That sounds a lot like when the US government mandated that toxic chemicals be added to industrial alcohol during prohibition in an attempt to stop bootlegging, which wound up killing quite a lot of people. So yeah... count me as strongly against that idea, even though I am very pro-gun-control.
Aside from that kind of large scale propaganda being Really Very Bad, someone looking for these designs could always just restrict by time to find the last known working version, i.e. here.